M80A1 and Black Tip .308 turns cover into concealment :D

AR-15 » Ammunition

AR Sponsor:

Site Notices

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - M80A1 and Black Tip .308 turns cover into concealment :D

Posted: 11/16/2016 12:01:37 PM EDT

I remember The Chopping Block doing these in the past, and so have I with various rounds. I could never tell if the rounds were able to penetrate both sides of a concrete block. So with the help of a Phantom High Speed Camera, we tested a standard FMJ/M80 Ball, Mk319, M80A1, and P80 FN/IMI black tip :)

Posted: 11/16/2016 12:07:39 PM EDT

[#1]

Tagged for later viewing.

Posted: 11/16/2016 12:07:54 PM EDT

[#2]

Cool video. Refreshing to have a gun related thread.

Thanks for posting.

Posted: 11/16/2016 1:30:29 PM EDT

[#3]

I'm going to have to look for some of that P80.

Thanks for the vid.

ETA: Eight bucks a round...oh, er...guess I don't need it that bad.

Posted: 11/16/2016 1:46:17 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

I remember The Chopping Block doing these in the past, and so have I with various rounds. I could never tell if the rounds were able to penetrate both sides of a concrete block. So with the help of a Phantom High Speed Camera, we tested a standard FMJ/M80 Ball, Mk319, M80A1, and P80 FN/IMI black tip :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fpftq47u4w

View Quote

Awesome video.

Thanks for sharing.

Oh, and subbed.

Posted: 11/17/2016 6:37:53 PM EDT

[#5]

Very Nice !!!

Posted: 11/18/2016 12:48:39 PM EDT

[#6]

Not saying I'd voluntarily be down range, but some of these exit velocities are quite low. What can these horribly deformed projectiles do in a ballistic gel block when they exit? Can they pierce soft armor?

Only one that seems effective is the actual steel core. I was expecting more from the 80a1.

Of course, the second round will go clean through, but that's not what we're testing here.

What happens when you fill the block voids with sand? Concrete? Pebbles? I speculate that a block filled with sand would be very effective on most rounds, especially if it was compressed as part of a wall.

I remember Old_Painless doing the sand test years ago and that was very surprising.

Posted: 11/18/2016 1:10:28 PM EDT

[#7]

Any m2 AP tests lined up?

Posted: 11/18/2016 1:25:04 PM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:
Not saying I'd voluntarily be down range, but some of these exit velocities are quite low. What can these horribly deformed projectiles do in a ballistic gel block when they exit? Can they pierce soft armor?

Only one that seems effective is the actual steel core. I was expecting more from the 80a1.

Of course, the second round will go clean through, but that's not what we're testing here.

What happens when you fill the block voids with sand? Concrete? Pebbles? I speculate that a block filled with sand would be very effective on most rounds, especially if it was compressed as part of a wall.

I remember Old_Painless doing the sand test years ago and that was very surprising.

View Quote

still better than throwing rocks.

Posted: 11/18/2016 3:16:10 PM EDT

[#9]

Definitely beats rocks or 5.56...

I'm just curious. Love proper tests.

Would also be interested in a 100 yard test using the same setup. Looked like the OP was at 15? yards.

Great job with the testing and video though. Always appreciated.

Posted: 11/19/2016 12:21:08 AM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:

Any m2 AP tests lined up?

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Any m2 AP tests lined up?

I sent him 8 rounds of M2AP :) You wanting to see what it does to block, or something harder? I sent him some 3/8" 46100 steel.

Quoted:

Not saying I'd voluntarily be down range, but some of these exit velocities are quite low. What can these horribly deformed projectiles do in a ballistic gel block when they exit? Can they pierce soft armor?

Only one that seems effective is the actual steel core. I was expecting more from the 80a1.

Of course, the second round will go clean through, but that's not what we're testing here.

What happens when you fill the block voids with sand? Concrete? Pebbles? I speculate that a block filled with sand would be very effective on most rounds, especially if it was compressed as part of a wall.

I remember Old_Painless doing the sand test years ago and that was very surprising.

Yeah only the P80 seems to have decent velocity exiting the block. M80A1 may have some more velocity exiting if I can figure out why the velocity was low on his shot. They are reloads, but we've verified 15 of them at 3000 fps :) Adding media to the cavities is definitely going to slow stuff down. So many tests, so little time :(

Quoted:

Definitely beats rocks or 5.56...

I'm just curious. Love proper tests.

Would also be interested in a 100 yard test using the same setup. Looked like the OP was at 15? yards.

Great job with the testing and video though. Always appreciated.

I'll double check with AR, but since we calculated velocities off the video, those are the listed velocities before impacting the block. So 15-30 yards seems logical.

Posted: 11/19/2016 1:08:41 AM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:
Not saying I'd voluntarily be down range, but some of these exit velocities are quite low. What can these horribly deformed projectiles do in a ballistic gel block when they exit? Can they pierce soft armor?

Only one that seems effective is the actual steel core. I was expecting more from the 80a1.

Of course, the second round will go clean through, but that's not what we're testing here.

What happens when you fill the block voids with sand? Concrete? Pebbles? I speculate that a block filled with sand would be very effective on most rounds, especially if it was compressed as part of a wall.

I remember Old_Painless doing the sand test years ago and that was very surprising.

View Quote

Filling the voids is not something that is done in 99% of cases. Obviously filling with rocks/concrete/sand is creating a solid wall that you'll need at least .50 BMG to punch through, or concentrated .30 cal. fire to make a loophole.

Posted: 11/19/2016 1:52:14 AM EDT

[#12]

CMU walls are not reinforced on the east coast but they are in the west.

Posted: 11/19/2016 6:35:04 AM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:

CMU walls are not reinforced on the east coast but they are in the west.

View Quote

Here in coastal Fla. many CMU walls are.

Posted: 11/19/2016 8:53:04 AM EDT

[#14]

Idk, just stuff

Car doors, blocks, old tractors. Hardened combat chassis of a T-888

Posted: 11/19/2016 1:21:19 PM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:

Here in coastal Fla. many CMU walls are.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
CMU walls are not reinforced on the east coast but they are in the west.

Here in coastal Fla. many CMU walls are.

Florida is an anomalie because of hurricanes. You also have very lightweight block. Half the weight of s block in a Alaska. I was jealous when that was my trade!

Posted: 11/20/2016 12:19:34 AM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:

Here in coastal Fla. many CMU walls are.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

CMU walls are not reinforced on the east coast but they are in the west.

Here in coastal Fla. many CMU walls are.

Cape Coral PD was the unfortunate subject of a study on why 9mm MP5 based SWAT entry was likely injury innocents years ago. Was used to force the move to SBR 556 issued to SWAT in the state of FL. As for penetration, until post assessment is made - we don't know.

Posted: 11/26/2016 9:21:52 AM EDT

[#17]

Just to add to the data base with .308.

I had an opportunity to shoot a block wall filled with concrete so it was more or less solid. I shot about 10 shots each with 150 grain ball .308 and 163 grain black tip ball ammo at about 50 feet.

Results had me surprised and a little disappointed. The ball ammo penetrated about 1 inch and the black tip AP ammo only went in about 1.5 inches. I was quite impressed with the wall.

Posted: 11/26/2016 1:00:46 PM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted: snip
I had an opportunity to shoot a block wall filled with concrete so it was more or less solid. I shot about 10 shots each with 150 grain ball .308 and 163 grain black tip ball ammo at about 50 feet.

Results had me surprised and a little disappointed. The ball ammo penetrated about 1 inch and the black tip AP ammo only went in about 1.5 inches. I was quite impressed with the wall. /snip

View Quote

Individual hits or all 10 to the same general POI?

I feel like concrete would easily get chipped away and cracked after a couple hits. Of course the target would likely move by then... but just speculating.

Posted: 11/26/2016 1:06:47 PM EDT

[#19]

I moved them around a little and shot at different parts of the blocks. Even when two hits were close together the solid cement core stopped them cold. I was very surprised. I would have no problem standing on the other side of a solid wall and guys shooting at me with AP ammo.

no spalling or anything came through the wall.

Posted: 11/26/2016 8:53:05 PM EDT

[#20]

Very nice.

I got to shoot at a car the other day. Didn't have any big guns. 12ga slug took chunks out of the trans and seized it. 5.56, 9mm, 45, all sliced everything like butter. Although high angle shots (prone to hood) did get deflected on occasion. 00 Buck makes huge holes in auto body, like .45 size holes, in and out. More confirmation that cars will do nothing to provide cover.

Posted: 11/27/2016 5:13:15 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
Very nice.

I got to shoot at a car the other day. Didn't have any big guns. 12ga slug took chunks out of the trans and seized it. 5.56, 9mm, 45, all sliced everything like butter. Although high angle shots (prone to hood) did get deflected on occasion. 00 Buck makes huge holes in auto body, like .45 size holes, in and out. More confirmation that cars will do nothing to provide cover.

View Quote

It can be effectively used if you understand angles and the construction of the vehicle. But never let cover become your coffin. Movement is very important.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - M80A1 and Black Tip .308 turns cover into concealment :D

AR-15 » Ammunition

AR Sponsor:

Warning

Confirm Action

About AR15.COM

Stay Connected

Newsletter

Contact Us