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Page AR-15 » Ammunition
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 10/17/2016 11:38:32 PM EDT
Here's the deal, I'll most likely be selling my "back up" AR-15 to my brother (he wants one before the election), this is my "sits under the bed just in case" rifle. That leaves me with my duty AR (not lugging it up stairs everyday), an 18" scoped AR (not great for HD), and my really nice 16" 300 BLK. I'm thinking of moving the .300 BLK to HD duty, but I don't know anything about .300 BLK ammunition.
So my question to any of you experts out there is "What is the best .300 BLK ammo to use out of a 16" bbl trying to minimize overpenatration through a human?"
I have no suppressor, so I don't want or need subsonic.
Interior of the house provides no cover, just Sheetrock and wood, exterior is rock and brick, neighbors are about 40-50 yards away in brick and stone houses.
Link Posted: 10/18/2016 8:22:14 PM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 10/18/2016 8:44:03 PM EDT
[#2]
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Looks promising. Thanks.
Link Posted: 10/18/2016 8:50:53 PM EDT
[#3]
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2nd this! It's some badass stuff. Accurate too out of 8" and 10.5" barrels. I bought a case this fall at $1.02/rd.
Link Posted: 10/18/2016 9:22:55 PM EDT
[#4]
My 300 blk HD gun has a magazine of Lehigh Controlled Chaos in the gun, and a magazine of the Barnes blacktips sitting next to it.

Link Posted: 10/18/2016 10:38:20 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
My 300 blk HD gun has a magazine of Lehigh Controlled Chaos in the gun, and a magazine of the Barnes blacktips sitting next to it.

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+2. Win-Win either way. But we do need more testing with the LEHIGH 115GR. CCCu load especially accuracy testing IMO.
Link Posted: 10/19/2016 3:22:04 AM EDT
[#6]
Go with the Barnes black tip you won't be disappointed. It works great on deer and hogs which are both similar to humans.
Link Posted: 10/19/2016 3:27:28 AM EDT
[#7]
I'm using Remington/Barnes 120gr OTFB, available locally and pretty affordable.

It seems to do well in short barrels but I'm using it in a 16". I keep a 20 round GI mag loaded in the gun and have two thirtys loaded with handloaded 125 TMK and 110 Vmax in reserve.
Link Posted: 10/19/2016 9:02:42 AM EDT
[#8]
I'll echo the above, TAC-TX is one of the main go-to rounds for killing things with 300BLK, and what I plan on using once my Honey Badger build is finished.
Link Posted: 10/19/2016 9:18:45 AM EDT
[#9]
OP,
    The 110GR. TAC-TX based Barnes® VOR-TX™ 300BLK cartridge is hard to improve on as a General Purpose 300BLK load especially for a hunting application. But it does have a couple of possible drawbacks for LE/SD/HD use: over-penetration & non-fragmentation.  These (2) characteristics are linked in that a bullet that does not fragment tends to penetrate deeper. The Barnes TAC-TX bullet does not normally fragment at all so it penetrates very deeply, almost too deeply for SD/HD/LE application. Over-penetration is a very real possibility, almost a certainty IMO. And controlled fragmentation is not necessarily a drawback as it has value as a tissue damage mechanism especially if the bullet also yields sufficient penetration. An accurate bullet designed for 300BLK application that balances expansion with controlled fragmentation over a wide range of impact velocity would be well received IMO. The BARNES TAC-TX and the LEHIGH CC Cu were designed from the ground up to expand/fragment at the very low impact velocity seen with the 300BLK out at 300yds. even from a 9" barrel yielding impact velocity of 1350-1400 FPS. With all that said, the 300BLK load I would currently trust to immediately stop a home invader with a single shot to the kill zone is the BHA 125GR. TMK. But even this TMK load has its drawbacks as a GP 300BLK load.  The 125GR. TMK bullet does not expand/fragment at impact velocity below approx. 1800-1900 FPS. This limits its useful range to approx. 100-150yds. for hunting application but is plenty for most LE/SD/HD applications. Currently, we have some very solid choices. And we are getting closer to the "perfect" General Purpose 300BLK load/bullet all the time. .02

BHA 125GR. TMK gel-shot test:




AAC's 300yd. expansion test results on the 110GR. Barnes® VOR-TX™ black tip load:





LEHIGH 400yds. water-shot testing of 115GR. CCCu load:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx0EsOg23nI&feature=youtu.be
Link Posted: 10/19/2016 9:39:47 AM EDT
[#10]
I appreciate it, gents. You have all given me quite a bit of good info to start with.Thanks.
Link Posted: 10/19/2016 10:05:16 AM EDT
[#11]
Lee 230gr 300BO mold, makes a 225gr cast boolit, powered by 10gr Reloader 7.
Quiet and hits like a 45ACP
Link Posted: 10/19/2016 7:45:35 PM EDT
[#12]
Lee 230gr 300BO mold, makes a 225gr cast boolit, powered by 10gr Reloader 7.
Quiet and hits like a 45ACP
this is the load if you have the time to cast and handload . I powder coat mine
Link Posted: 10/19/2016 10:33:20 PM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:
Lee 230gr 300BO mold, makes a 225gr cast boolit, powered by 10gr Reloader 7.
Quiet and hits like a 45ACP
this is the load if you have the time to cast and handload . I powder coat mine
View Quote


Might as well use a .45 then. To me, the whole point of the 300 blk is to have 5.56 effectiveness out of short barrels.
Link Posted: 10/19/2016 11:22:42 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
OP,
    The 110GR. TAC-TX based Barnes® VOR-TX™ 300BLK cartridge is hard to improve on as a General Purpose 300BLK load especially for a hunting application. But it does have a couple of possible drawbacks for LE/SD/HD use: over-penetration & non-fragmentation.  These (2) characteristics are linked in that a bullet that does not fragment tends to penetrate deeper. The Barnes TAC-TX bullet does not normally fragment at all so it penetrates very deeply, almost too deeply for SD/HD/LE application. Over-penetration is a very real possibility, almost a certainty IMO. And controlled fragmentation is not necessarily a drawback as it has value as a tissue damage mechanism especially if the bullet also yields sufficient penetration. An accurate bullet designed for 300BLK application that balances expansion with controlled fragmentation over a wide range of impact velocity would be well received IMO. The BARNES TAC-TX and the LEHIGH CC Cu were designed from the ground up to expand/fragment at the very low impact velocity seen with the 300BLK out at 300yds. even from a 9" barrel yielding impact velocity of 1350-1400 FPS. With all that said, the 300BLK load I would currently trust to immediately stop a home invader with a single shot to the kill zone is the BHA 125GR. TMK. But even this TMK load has its drawbacks as a GP 300BLK load.  The 125GR. TMK bullet does not expand/fragment at impact velocity below approx. 1800-1900 FPS. This limits its useful range to approx. 100-150yds. for hunting application but is plenty for most LE/SD/HD applications. Currently, we have some very solid choices. And we are getting closer to the "perfect" General Purpose 300BLK load/bullet all the time. .02

BHA 125GR. TMK gel-shot test:

<a href="http://s9.photobucket.com/user/leid/media/Ammo/BHA%20300%20Whisper%20125GR.%20TMK%2016%20inch%20Barrel_zpsyens1mdh.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a72/leid/Ammo/BHA%20300%20Whisper%20125GR.%20TMK%2016%20inch%20Barrel_zpsyens1mdh.jpg</a>


AAC's 300yd. expansion test results on the 110GR. Barnes® VOR-TX™ black tip load:

<a href="http://s9.photobucket.com/user/leid/media/Ammo/Barnes%20300%20AAC%20BLK%20110%20VOR-TX%20with%20TAC-TX%20FB%20Black%20Tip%20Bullet_zpsrmhinyfq.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a72/leid/Ammo/Barnes%20300%20AAC%20BLK%20110%20VOR-TX%20with%20TAC-TX%20FB%20Black%20Tip%20Bullet_zpsrmhinyfq.jpg</a>



LEHIGH 400yds. water-shot testing of 115GR. CCCu load:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx0EsOg23nI&feature=youtu.be
View Quote


I looked at the 125gr TMK when trying out different BLK loads (before I chose the 110 TAC-TX). It was plenty accurate out of my 8" SBR but I was dubious as to its fragmentation at range.

I even emailed Sierra a few months back asking about minimum expansion velocities for several of their TMK bullets and you know what I was told? "They aren't designed to expand."

I believe they say this with a wink and a nod because they don't want to lose the ability to market TMK bullets to the military, seeing as how the military can't use expanding ammo. Can't really blame them for that 1800fps does reduce the usefulness quite a bit, but doesn't hurt anything for SD ranges
Link Posted: 10/20/2016 10:06:23 AM EDT
[#15]
Eagle,
    Sierra has been anything but helpful when it comes to supplying useful information on using the SMK or the TMK bullets on flesh & bone targets. One email reply from Sierra finally stated that they don't even test their SMK or TMK bullets for expansion/fragmentation properties. If that is actually the case, then Sierra has no real idea what level of terminal performance their SMK or TMK bullets are capable of. Whenever I need usable information on SMK or TMK terminal performance, I look to BHA for information on their  loads. BHA manufactures actual SMK & TMK based ammunition & they have always been thoroughly familiar with the gel-shot performance of their loads. I don't believe BHA would waste valuable time gel-shot testing then manufacturing loads that don't have real-world application on flesh & bone targets. Jeff Hoffman, co-owner & President of BHA, is also a long-time LEO/sharpshooter/sniper, first commissioned in 1979. As such, I would think it a safe bet that he looks at terminal performance from a LEO's perspective: fight stopping terminal performance up close with sufficient accuracy for use at longer range. Referencing the BHA 125GR. TMK gel shot test above: That level of tissue damage inside the chest cavity of a home invader will very quickly end the fight IMO. And the dozens of game-shots I have taken  with the 125GR. TMK at what would be considered normal SD/HD range mirror BHA's gel-shot results. Bottom line: Do I think it a mistake to opt for the Barnes 110Gr. TAC-TX black tip bullet based VOR-TX™  load as a General Purpose 300BLK load? Absolutely not. .02
Link Posted: 10/21/2016 12:13:22 AM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Eagle,
    Sierra has been anything but helpful when it comes to supplying useful information on using the SMK or the TMK bullets on flesh & bone targets. One email reply from Sierra finally stated that they don't even test their SMK or TMK bullets for expansion/fragmentation properties. If that is actually the case, then Sierra has no real idea what level of terminal performance their SMK or TMK bullets are capable of. Whenever I need usable information on SMK or TMK terminal performance, I look to BHA for information on their  loads. BHA manufactures actual SMK & TMK based ammunition & they have always been thoroughly familiar with the gel-shot performance of their loads. I don't believe BHA would waste valuable time gel-shot testing then manufacturing loads that don't have real-world application on flesh & bone targets. Jeff Hoffman, co-owner & President of BHA, is also a long-time LEO/sharpshooter/sniper, first commissioned in 1979. As such, I would think it a safe bet that he looks at terminal performance from a LEO's perspective: fight stopping terminal performance up close with sufficient accuracy for use at longer range. Referencing the BHA 125GR. TMK gel shot test above: That level of tissue damage inside the chest cavity of a home invader will very quickly end the fight IMO. And the dozens of game-shots I have taken  with the 125GR. TMK at what would be considered normal SD/HD range mirror BHA's gel-shot results. Bottom line: Do I think it a mistake to opt for the Barnes 110Gr. TAC-TX black tip bullet based VOR-TX™  load as a General Purpose 300BLK load? Absolutely not. .02
View Quote


Understood. Good to know Sierra wasn't very helpful to you either. I stopped by their booth at Shot this year to ask a few questions and didn't get a really friendly vibe...just down the way at BHA's booth though, it was a different story altogether. Too bad I didn't win their drawing for a case of whatever ammo I wanted.

I completely agree that the gel test above is devastating, I just wish the 125gr TMK would do that down to 1400 fps.

I absolutely LOVE the .300 BLK cartridge. It opens up a whole new world over and above 5.56 for the AR platform. I can't wait to see what bullet makers come out with down the line. Perfection is close, I can just feel it!
Link Posted: 10/21/2016 12:43:19 AM EDT
[#17]
Just FYI... any round that has enough energy to adequately penetrate a human (~12-18" gel) to reliably puncture organs is going to go through multiple layers of sheetrock and various other construction materials. I find discussions of various calibers' "over-penetration" to be akin to "which handgun caliber has more 'knock-down' power"... all handgun rounds are equally crappy compared to long gun rounds and all effective defense ammo will penetrate multiple walls, etc.



That said, I have an 8" 300blk "pistol" under my bed with a mag of barnes 110gr if trouble every comes knocking. Out of such a short barrel and at such short distances, I don't think there's a better AR round for HD.
Link Posted: 10/21/2016 12:40:06 PM EDT
[#18]
What we want from the 300BLK bullet for LE/SD/HD is more useful terminal performance inside the target, not excessive over penetration beyond it. Once the bullet exits the target, useful terminal performance stops and liability begins in any LE/SD/HD application.  If you pull that trigger, you own any & all liability until that bullet stops moving. Doc Roberts pretty much sums up what we are looking for but have not yet found in an LE/SD/HD 300BLK load:
"While the .300 BLK TTSX is a superb loading for military and hunting purposes, penetration is a bit deeper than ideal for LE use. An LE optimized .300 BLK loading engineered with proper feed profile, 12-18" penetration depth, that is blind to barriers will be a great addition."

Link Posted: 10/21/2016 8:39:54 PM EDT
[#19]


Federal needs to make a Blackout Fusion MSR load in the 110-120g range.







110g black tips work great until they do.


 
Link Posted: 10/22/2016 2:16:27 PM EDT
[#20]
+1 to the guys who said Lehigh Defense. They make really superior ammo. If you want, someone did a review of their 300blk ammo in a home defense situation here.
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