I've been trying to learn if the zink plating that TulAmmo and others have migrated to, from a copper wash, does a better job of lubrication/protection than the copper wash?

I've searched the web and this form but cannot find anything specific about the zink.  What I could find are articles about the copper wash:

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/
and
http://www.uspsa.org/front-sight-magazine-article.php?Should-I-Buy-BiMetal-Ammo-8

discussion on ARFCOM
https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=681718

My question is:  does zink do a better job?  If not, why did mfg's change to it?  

Actual scientific testing is sought, not just opinions, although educated opinions are welcome.  

Thanks,

This is my "Educated" opinion. The zinc plating, from what i have seen, is just for the Western markets. There were plenty of reports/opinions that the lacquer coating caused cases to lodge in the chamber of a hot or dirty rifle. I believe this was proven many times to NOT be the cause, but the rumor persisted and kept a lot of people from buying the ammo. In short, it's marketing for Americans to make them feel better about buying the ammo.

Another thread basically saying the same thing, but polymer coating. http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177240

Copper is 29 zink is 30 on the periodic table. They are about as close as it gets to being the "same".
You are looking up the wrong tree. The reason is cost. Copper may be a bit better but not by much. Money is the reason behind the change

Sorry it isn't  more sinister.

Are we talking about zinc plated bullets or the zinc plated steel case ammo like Silverbear?
I've been through likely 8 or 9krds of Silverbear through different AR's. I can't remember ever having a stuck case, misfeed, misfire, or any other problem.

Zinc does a really, really good job of protecting steel.  Zinc is also about half the cost of copper.

But the zinc bit is all about image.  As noted above, lacquer on a case NEVER screwed up a gun, though never cleaning your rifle will cause problems even with brass cased rounds.  It's just quicker with steel cases because steel doesn't seal the chamber as well as brass and sooty gunk builds up and causes cases to stick.

I've shot I don't know how many rounds of Barnaul-made, lacquered steel cased ammunition, both in my ARs and in various 9mm handguns, and never, never had a bobble.

I wouldn't spend extra for zinc-coated ammunition, but I wouldn't turn my nose up at it, either.

close does not mean the same

there is no way in hell i will shoot zinc plated bullets in a rifle-zinc vapors are really bad

since the op mentioned copper wash-he is obviously talking about the bullets

Yes, I'm talking about the bullets.

What I want to know is if the zink coated steel better insulates than the copper washed steel?  The earlier cited article showed the copper didn't do an adequate job of barrel protection.  

I specifically am wondering about the current TulAmmo, steel cased rounds.  

Thanks

no issues with silver bear and I like the 62 gr out of my old Colt that hates all other plain steel case , wolf and tula.

Zinc... Not Zink.

Sorry, thought you were talking about the case.. here you go http://tulammousa.com/zinc.html

All right, you want science, here it comes....

First of all its not copper.  Its Gliding Metal which is 95% copper and 5% zinc.  
Also used is TOMBAC steel, which is 90% copper and 10% zinc.
Brass is and alloy of copper and zinc, bronze is an alloy of copper and tin.
There is a electro zinc plating, and hot dipped zinc plating.  TULA ammo is electro, old German 8mm ammo was hot dipped.
All used in bullet and case manufacturing (plus other experimental mixes like molyk PTFE, Teflon, tin, and silver plating)  
These are either solid or plated, over a very mild steel which does not hurt the rifling of your barrel.

Zinc bullets have a better sectional density (heavier by atomic weight) than copper which means more penetration (like the old metal piercing Police bullets made from zinc)
There are a couple of NEW companies who are about to announce solid zinc bullets both in rifle and pistol (I have .223/556 and 9mm projectiles already sectioned for them)

Old, long distance shooters who rolled their own always said the zinc had an extra "slide/ self lubrication" value, as if it slid down the barrel easier.  Would think that works with case extraction as well.

wolfganggross

How much zinc is actually vaporized in firing one of these bullets?  Is it comparable to the amount of lead vaporized in firing lead bullets?

WGG,

Thank you very much.  This is the kind of info I am seeking.  

It sounds like there is no down-side to using the 'new' zinC TulAmmo for target/training.

I'm leaning toward using it [I host a number of get togethers with guys who have never shot any gun, so I go through a lot of ammo, through a number of ARs, and price factors into it for me since I'm paying for it all] and worst case, I may be replacing a barrel a bit sooner than if mono-metal FMJ had been used.  

a lot more

look at the copper fouling/copper in a FS. The heat/friction does it.

lead does not get hot since it doesn't touch the rifling. Zinc also has a much lower boiling/melting point than copper.

I will never shoot zinc plated bullets, way too many known problems with metal fume fever


BTW i have emailed tula about it multiple times and they wont say anything.

read about norways NM229 ammo and find out why they dont make it anymore

Shot a crap load of Silver Bear through my blasting SBRs and .45 AR.

i burned a couple cases of mfs .223 when it was available. the ammo had barnaul headstamps and performed swimmingly. i did notice the cases on the ground rusted more over the following months compared to polymer coated cases.

Prompted by your post, I tried, I did a google search and found a few posts in forums but could not find any solid information regarding your inference.  

Do you have links to some study[ies] or other tangible evidence that would shed light on your reference?

Thanks,

search for carl gustav 855 med problems

Thanks, I did.  All I can find are references back to ARFCOM archived threads.  

I read through them and snipped some relevant posts which follow.  If you have any more relevant or recent info I'd be open to hearing about it.  

Seems like they found a solution to the problem.

Here is what I found:

From this thread [which pops up 3 separate times in the google search]

https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/649168_Carl_Gustaf_NATO_5_56X45__223_62grn.html&page=2

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Posted: 6/26/2014 11:55:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/26/2014 4:22:48 PM EST by fs71]
There is a good article by the BBC about lead free ammo made in Sweden. http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-19116438

It goes on to say that ammo made in Sweden before 2010 had a problem; but has been subsequently fixed.

"In 1995, the Swedish government requested alternative ammunition. Four years later, the first lead-free bullets were delivered. Since then Nammo has made 360 million at its plant on the shores of Lake Vattern in southern Sweden.

To the untrained eye there's nothing to mark out the green bullets as different, from the pointed, copper-coloured tip, down the shining cartridge to the ridged base.

But Nammo claims each green round is designed to "minimise the impact on users' health" and on the environment. The company also trumpets that the new design shows "improved lethality".

They now make 80 million a year. All lead has been removed along with any heavy metals in the gunpowder. The core of the round is made of steel.

Lead has always been an obvious choice for ammunition. It's cheap, heavy and easy to mould into bullet shapes - it also has a lubricating effect on gun barrels when fired.

Nammo claims that over the past decade it has prevented 1,200 tonnes of lead being put into the environment.

But the introduction of lead-free rounds has not been without its problems. In 2009 soldiers began to report fever, headaches and joint pains after using the rounds in the Norwegian army's new assault rifle. For a time they were forced to revert to their old ammunition.

Research showed that the combination of new bullets and new weapons caused increases in emissions of carbon dioxide, ammonia and hydrogen cyanide. There was a complete redesign and Nammo claims the problems have now been solved. "

Nammo Vingåkersverken AB has been engaged in demilitarisation of ammunition for more than 35 years. The plant was established in 1967 as an assembly and explosives casting plant for the famous Swedish Carl-Gustaf system. Demilitarisation operations were started in early 1970's and have from then grown to be the main activity. Today approx. 80 employees have their work at Nammo Vingåkersverken.

The company has developed a number of explosive removal processes and high speed disassembly equipments, for all types of explosives and ammunition, in addition to unique civilian explosives products from recovered material.

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Posted: 6/27/2014 7:09:03 AM EST
Seems like any health concerns are only if you shoot it indoors.


http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/?p=2313

1) Nammo Non-toxic: 5.56mm. Most ammunition contains lead and other toxic material, which is increasingly a problem given growing public awareness of environmental issues and ever more stringent requirements to protect the environment. This affects the armed forces, with many of the existing small arms training ranges likely to close due to potential groundwater contamination. The problems are even worse in the closed quarters of an indoor range.

Nammo has responded by developing non-toxic ammunition free from heavy metals in the projectile, powder and primer. While initially used for training this has been designed to achieve full military performance, at least as good as existing lead-cored ammunition. This is NATO qualified in 5.56x45mm ball and 7.62x51mm ball and tracer loadings and has been in service with armed forces and federal agencies for several years.

The 5.56mm ball resembles the SS109/M855 bullet in being an FMJ design with the gilding metal jacket fully enclosing the core except at the base, and with the front part of the core consisting of a hardened steel penetrator. The difference is that the rest of the core is of steel rather than lead. The first version of this ammunition, designated NT 4 HP, was NATO qualified in 2004 by which time it was already in service with Sweden and Norway. In 2009, complaints concerning health issues began to arise from Norway concerning the use of this ammunition with their new HK 416 rifles in indoor ranges. After a detailed investigation the source was identified as copper and zinc emissions resulting from the interaction between the bullet and the relatively tight HK 416 barrel (interestingly, while the NT 4 HP produced more such emissions than the M855, it produced fewer than the M855A1). A redesign effort resulted in the BNT 4 HP Mk2, which significantly reduced the emissions while delivering improved accuracy (equal to or less than 2 MOA) and enhanced penetration (3.5mm steel plate at 700 m, compared with 550 m minimum requirement for SS109). Lethality is also improved, with the bullet beginning a rapid yaw after penetrating less than 2.5 inches (60mm) into a soft target.
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Posted: 7/2/2014 11:24:16 AM EST
My ammo is dated to 2010. So this is the second generation ammo not the stuff from 2009 and prior that was causing so much of the health issues.

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Posted: 7/2/2014 8:06:47 PM EST
Quoted:
My ammo is dated to 2010. So this is the second generation ammo not the stuff from 2009 and prior that was causing so much of the health issues.

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Just an FYI ... Norway stopped use of this ammo in 2011, production of this specific ammo continued until then.

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The second gen came about after 2011.

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The problems were reported in 2009.