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Posted: 5/17/2016 2:22:17 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
What is the better back up round define better |
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Posted: 5/17/2016 2:23:58 PM EDT
[#2]
193
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Posted: 5/17/2016 2:31:41 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
define better Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What is the better back up round define better Between the two which is better should the need arise in a defensive situation where premium sd ammo is not available you can only choose m855 or 193 |
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Posted: 5/17/2016 2:41:54 PM EDT
[#4]
M193 has always been cheaper, From what I can tell. So that's what I do. I wouldn't mind M855 though. The little bit I've shot of it, it seems like it might have an edge in accuracy. But I may be all wet with that.
I wish I had the money to stockpile and shoot black hills..... 
But to officially answer your question, it's M193 for me. |
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Posted: 5/17/2016 2:45:40 PM EDT
[#5]
Mk262
Next M193 |
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Posted: 5/17/2016 2:48:32 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mk262 Next M193 These are the two I stock up on. |
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Posted: 5/17/2016 2:54:20 PM EDT
[#7]
M193 (60 percent) and M855 (other 40 percent) here. Just my .02
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Posted: 5/17/2016 2:58:02 PM EDT
[#8]
855 has a steel penetrator that helps penetrate better(go figure) and knock down hard targets. Light vehicles, light cover, mild body armor, etc. 193 is a lead core and will do more damage to soft targets because of the increased deformation. If it hits flesh while it's still going fast, there's a good chance it'll tumble and yaw, possibly fragmenting inside the target and opening up some massive wound channels. 855 in similar circumstances will just zip through leaving a mild temporary cavitation. Certainly still lethal if it hits center mass, but say the round impacts the shoulder, thigh, forearm, etc? 193 will do better in that situation.
With regards to stockpiling, it depends what you're stockpiling for. You want a round that'll knockdown unarmored people and possibly wildlife? I'd go 193. Prepping for a North Korean invasion where you'll fight infantry in old vehicles? probably 855. |
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Posted: 5/17/2016 3:03:52 PM EDT
[#9]
I've got about 2000 rounds of both combined ....the majority is M193.. I find the price is about the same but M193 has
been much easier to come by for some reason at least at brick and mortar stores in my area. I don't know which is better, but since I don't need to punch 3/8" steel @ 200 yds I'll take the heavier M855 for all round if I could only have one. |
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Posted: 5/17/2016 3:06:10 PM EDT
[#10]
I currently have a couple thousand rounds of m855 I'm just sitting on as I've been shooting steel targets now and Wolf gold is so cheap to play with. I'd love to buy thousands of rounds of imi 77gr razorcore but it's just to much.
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Posted: 5/17/2016 3:13:55 PM EDT
[#11]
IMO M193 is the superior round to stockpile.
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Posted: 5/17/2016 3:17:14 PM EDT
[#12]
I stockpiled shitloads of both. Also some match stuff, BP rounds, HP's, etc.
Jut depends what's going on. |
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Posted: 5/17/2016 3:35:58 PM EDT
[#13]
193. It will do the job in most cases. It will defeat body armor, and several other barriers if you choose to shoot through instead of at something. It was also replaced in part because it was "too devastating". I found the last part pretty strange, but after using M855, it makes since.
Old schooler here. Wish we would have had some of the more modern rounds in the day, but very thankful we could get around some of them. MK318 Mod 0 is available, a bit expensive, but really good. I know it wasn't on your list, but it is an alternative, and a good one. |
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Posted: 5/17/2016 4:00:26 PM EDT
[#14]
I bit the bullet (
 ) and stockpiled a fair amount of Mk318 along with a lot of IMI Razor Core 77gr Mk262 clone ammo.
The bulk of my stockpile is 193 and some 855. So 193 is the answer. |
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Posted: 5/17/2016 5:43:26 PM EDT
[#15]
M193 in the form of Wolf Gold - stack it high, stack it deep.
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Posted: 5/17/2016 5:48:32 PM EDT
[#16]
I like M855 over M193 because of the superior penetration of the steel core. People tend to take cover when shooting at you. If I am using a rifle to defend myself then it is truly a bad situation and I want every little edge that I can get. Like said people tend to take cover when shooting at you.
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Posted: 5/17/2016 7:21:44 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I like M855 over M193 because of the superior penetration of the steel core. People tend to take cover when shooting at you. If I am using a rifle to defend myself then it is truly a bad situation and I want every little edge that I can get. Like said people tend to take cover when shooting at you. Superior penetration in what materials? |
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Posted: 5/17/2016 8:04:34 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Superior penetration in what materials? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I like M855 over M193 because of the superior penetration of the steel core. People tend to take cover when shooting at you. If I am using a rifle to defend myself then it is truly a bad situation and I want every little edge that I can get. Like said people tend to take cover when shooting at you. Superior penetration in what materials? |
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Posted: 5/17/2016 8:42:56 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistorySuperior penetration in what materials? Certainly not metal/steel from what I've seen. XM193 >>>clean through 3/8" cold rolled steel @ 200 yds but not M855....not quite fast enough even with it's metal penetrating tip. I like M855 better as a bug out round (head for the mountains) because I'm not really that worried that it's not as effective on 2-leggers at close range, I'm looking for a better overall round and at 7 grains heavier will probably be more effective on large 4 leggers at distance. Mass counts against heavy hide, muscle and bone! |
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Posted: 5/17/2016 8:59:37 PM EDT
[#20]
Given those two options and only those two options, I would get both...probably more M193 though, just due to cost.
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Posted: 5/17/2016 11:55:11 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unless we are talking about a thin helmet nobody uses anymore at 500 yards I don't know anything that M855 goes through better than M193 Agreed. Velocity is king when it comes to penetration so m193 is a better bet in most cases. m855 as a superior penetrator has been thoroughly debunked...or so I thought. |
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Posted: 5/18/2016 12:11:45 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agreed. Velocity is king when it comes to penetration so m193 is a better bet in most cases. m855 as a superior penetrator has been thoroughly debunked...or so I thought. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Unless we are talking about a thin helmet nobody uses anymore at 500 yards I don't know anything that M855 goes through better than M193 Agreed. Velocity is king when it comes to penetration so m193 is a better bet in most cases. m855 as a superior penetrator has been thoroughly debunked...or so I thought. *at close range. M855 out penetrates M193 at longer ranges (iirc, over 400m). |
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Posted: 5/18/2016 12:42:19 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Superior penetration in what materials? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I like M855 over M193 because of the superior penetration of the steel core. People tend to take cover when shooting at you. If I am using a rifle to defend myself then it is truly a bad situation and I want every little edge that I can get. Like said people tend to take cover when shooting at you. Superior penetration in what materials? In particular cars doors/bodies, we have tested alot of 5.56 rounds through cars and glass. Most 5.56 loads don't do very well at going through car doors, even the bonded stuff of all makes. The GMX rounds does a great job at this but it's too expensive to stock up on for me. Most 5.56 will not penetrate a drivers and passenger door and I am not talking about hitting arm rests or seats. Just a clean door through door. At best most will put a dimple on the passenger door, the GMX and M855 will go through both doors with ease. We do this to show guys capabilities of 5.56 after a couple of incidents where bad guys have used 7.62x39 and body armor. We also show what the 7.62x39 will do to a car and not to expect much cover with exception of the block. I will admit M193 is superior to M855 in soft tissue, no doubt about it |
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Posted: 5/18/2016 12:47:24 AM EDT
[#24]
Depends. I chose m855. It's groups overlap the groups from the 69smk ammo I have for SD. Not a perfect zero but close enough to get the job done. If I was running lighter bullet and 193 overlapped with it I would go that route.
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Posted: 5/18/2016 1:34:21 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IMO M193 is the superior round to stockpile. |
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Posted: 5/18/2016 1:57:30 PM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 5/18/2016 3:14:47 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote History |
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Posted: 5/18/2016 3:22:45 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for posting my video Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for posting my video I think it's the second time this month
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Posted: 5/18/2016 8:14:55 PM EDT
[#29]
Let me preface this by saying I have read all of Molons charts. I may have missed something but I do have one question. If my 11.5" SBR has been zeroed using M855 at 50yds using an Aimpoint CompM4s will there be a noticeable difference using M193? Considering it's a 2 moa dot I would think that I probably wouldn't even notice.
ETA: I have a large stock of M855 and I'm just starting to order M193 to stock up on as well. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 8:09:35 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Let me preface this by saying I have read all of Molons charts. I may have missed something but I do have one question. If my 11.5" SBR has been zeroed using M855 at 50yds using an Aimpoint CompM4s will there be a noticeable difference using M193? Considering it's a 2 moa dot I would think that I probably wouldn't even notice. ETA: I have a large stock of M855 and I'm just starting to order M193 to stock up on as well. M855 drops about 5" more than M193 @ 400 yds...roughly |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 1:22:58 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Let me preface this by saying I have read all of Molons charts. I may have missed something but I do have one question. If my 11.5" SBR has been zeroed using M855 at 50yds using an Aimpoint CompM4s will there be a noticeable difference using M193? Considering it's a 2 moa dot I would think that I probably wouldn't even notice. ETA: I have a large stock of M855 and I'm just starting to order M193 to stock up on as well. If you're talking about a change in zero, it may very well not hit in the same spot. It depends on the barrel. I almost always notice a POI shift when shooting different ammo. Each rifle is different as to how much shift I notice. I've got some that shift POI terribly, and some not much at all. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 4:50:15 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you're talking about a change in zero, it may very well not hit in the same spot. It depends on the barrel. I almost always notice a POI shift when shooting different ammo. Each rifle is different as to how much shift I notice. I've got some that shift POI terribly, and some not much at all. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Let me preface this by saying I have read all of Molons charts. I may have missed something but I do have one question. If my 11.5" SBR has been zeroed using M855 at 50yds using an Aimpoint CompM4s will there be a noticeable difference using M193? Considering it's a 2 moa dot I would think that I probably wouldn't even notice. ETA: I have a large stock of M855 and I'm just starting to order M193 to stock up on as well. If you're talking about a change in zero, it may very well not hit in the same spot. It depends on the barrel. I almost always notice a POI shift when shooting different ammo. Each rifle is different as to how much shift I notice. I've got some that shift POI terribly, and some not much at all. It's a DD 11.5" CL barrel. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 5:05:48 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
855 has a steel penetrator that helps penetrate better(go figure) and knock down hard targets. Light vehicles, light cover, mild body armor, etc. 193 is a lead core and will do more damage to soft targets because of the increased deformation. If it hits flesh while it's still going fast, there's a good chance it'll tumble and yaw, possibly fragmenting inside the target and opening up some massive wound channels. 855 in similar circumstances will just zip through leaving a mild temporary cavitation. Certainly still lethal if it hits center mass, but say the round impacts the shoulder, thigh, forearm, etc? 193 will do better in that situation. With regards to stockpiling, it depends what you're stockpiling for. You want a round that'll knockdown unarmored people and possibly wildlife? I'd go 193. Prepping for a North Korean invasion where you'll fight infantry in old vehicles? probably 855. LOL, 855 penciling. You might want to look into that. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 5:11:52 PM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 5/19/2016 5:18:52 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryAny idea why the M855 penetrates the steel plate better than the M193, but the situation is reversed for the body armor? |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 5:35:32 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any idea why the M855 penetrates the steel plate better than the M193, but the situation is reversed for the body armor? Steel requires the bullet to stay together longer, so the steel penetrator works to its advantage. Body armor involves spreading and penetrating a much softer matrix - where higher speed is more important than the projectile staying in one piece longer. Not sure where the two fall relative to each other against ceramic trauma plates. |
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Posted: 5/19/2016 8:44:57 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's a DD 11.5" CL barrel. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Let me preface this by saying I have read all of Molons charts. I may have missed something but I do have one question. If my 11.5" SBR has been zeroed using M855 at 50yds using an Aimpoint CompM4s will there be a noticeable difference using M193? Considering it's a 2 moa dot I would think that I probably wouldn't even notice. ETA: I have a large stock of M855 and I'm just starting to order M193 to stock up on as well. If you're talking about a change in zero, it may very well not hit in the same spot. It depends on the barrel. I almost always notice a POI shift when shooting different ammo. Each rifle is different as to how much shift I notice. I've got some that shift POI terribly, and some not much at all. It's a DD 11.5" CL barrel. You just have to test it. All barrels behave differently. Even if I had the exact same barrel as you, it would likely behave a bit differently. ALL BARRELS ARE PREJUDICED. It's always cool if they don't shift too much. I'll be honest, the SS heavy barrels I've had seem to shift POI a lot less than CL govt' barrels. That's just my experience. |
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Posted: 5/22/2016 9:01:43 PM EDT
[#38]
I don't care. They're so close in real world use buy which one you can get.
Its only been recently that ive found 855 as cheap as 193. I have both but mostly 193. If someone would trade 1200rds of 855 for 1k rounds of 193 Id do that trade without hesitation. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 4:41:24 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any idea why the M855 penetrates the steel plate better than the M193, but the situation is reversed for the body armor? Quote HistoryQuoted: Any idea why the M855 penetrates the steel plate better than the M193, but the situation is reversed for the body armor? |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 8:51:26 AM EDT
[#40]
They both rely on fragmentation to do their thing, and M193 is more likely to fragment than M855. Given that the "armor penetrating" qualities of M855 are of pretty questionable utility in a self-defense shooting, I'll take M193 all day.
Now, if M855A1 was in the equation, I'd be all over it. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 9:12:56 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The armor they where testing in that video was steel plate and the M193 penetrated it because of it's speed, now will it do the same thing at 200 or 300 yds I don't know. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Any idea why the M855 penetrates the steel plate better than the M193, but the situation is reversed for the body armor? It's not that the situation is reversed for body armor is that the situation is reversed at long range. Speed will push a bullet through steel, doesn't much matter what type of bullet. M193 is faster than M855 so it penetrates steel better at close range. As the speed drops off (At long range) the bullet construction starts to matter more. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 9:13:19 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They both rely on fragmentation to do their thing, and M193 is more likely to fragment than M855. Given that the "armor penetrating" qualities of M855 are of pretty questionable utility in a self-defense shooting, I'll take M193 all day. Now, if M855A1 was in the equation, I'd be all over it.  |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 2:56:05 PM EDT
[#43]
M193
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Posted: 5/24/2016 3:03:10 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is 100% correct lol Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They both rely on fragmentation to do their thing, and M193 is more likely to fragment than M855. Given that the "armor penetrating" qualities of M855 are of pretty questionable utility in a self-defense shooting, I'll take M193 all day. Now, if M855A1 was in the equation, I'd be all over it. Exactly. I sometimes wonder if folks know what the "penetrator" in 855 actually is. It's a tiny little thing. Like... tiny. 855A1 is entirely different. I'm not a fan of M855 but I would buy all the 855A1 I could find. |
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