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Posted: 2/26/2015 10:51:19 PM EDT
[#1]
XM193 should shoot good in that gun.
And http://www.sgammo.com/product/223-556mm/500-round-case-223-rem-silver-bear-62-grain-hollow-point-ammo-zinc-plated-steel-ca if you can find it. |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 11:03:13 PM EDT
[#2]
Id probably do a Barns TSX or Hornady GMX
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Posted: 2/26/2015 11:08:05 PM EDT
[#3]
It's probably best to grab a box of different types and try them out for accuracy. Thats what I dod. I tried about 3 different federal loads and 3-4 hornady match ammo. I ended up seeing that the Hornady vmax 53gr shoots like a laser out of my yote gun... So I have a few boxes of that laying around when I need it and use other cheaper ammo when I'm messing around.
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Posted: 2/26/2015 11:21:20 PM EDT
[#4]
Copper/Barnes TSX has the best reputation.
Beyond that pick a Soft point that shoots good in your gun 55-65 grains. |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 11:30:43 PM EDT
[#5]
Silver bear... really??
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Posted: 2/26/2015 11:32:23 PM EDT
[#6]
Is "bigger" always better for deer? so if i found a 75gr soft point... does that mean i should use that instead of...
say a 63gr... just because its bigger??? |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 11:40:46 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is "bigger" always better for deer? so if i found a 75gr soft point... does that mean i should use that instead of... say a 63gr... just because its bigger??? Depends on the application. For deer, I would default to the heavier bullets that shoot accurately in my rifle. With a 1/9 twist, your barrel may or may not stabilize 75 grain soft points. It's best to test them first. Any soft point hunting round from 55 grains and up should do the trick with proper shot placement. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 12:06:17 AM EDT
[#8]
Speer gold dot 64gr
Federal fusion 62 gr Killed many of shit with those bullets For yotes any a-max would do great like 55gr Hornady red label or 65gr TAP |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 12:30:44 AM EDT
[#9]
I used to have a lot of success with the 55gr Hornady A-Max. Very accurate at longer ranges, great expansion. Yotes were usually DRT.
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Posted: 2/27/2015 1:21:53 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Silver bear... really?? Don't laugh, surprisingly those soft point turds work pretty damn good. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 2:08:33 AM EDT
[#11]
Are you going 1/9 for any particular reason? You'll have much more ammo flexibility, especially if you want to kill a dear, if you go 1/7 or 1/8. Does anyone even make an accurate 1/9 barrel these days?
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Posted: 2/27/2015 9:03:11 AM EDT
[#12]
silver and brown bear work pretty dam good in my ar 62 gn sp killed my fair share with them?i dont have to pick up the cases in the field and can hold an 1 1/2 inch group at 100 accurate enough for songdogs dont you think.this is out of a cmmg stainless bull barrel 1/9 twist barrel.
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Posted: 2/27/2015 9:07:52 AM EDT
[#13]
Whatever is cheap and shoots accurately. Hitting a 40 lb yote with a .224 55gr fmj is like hitting a human with a bullet almost double the diameter of a 50cal.
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Posted: 2/27/2015 9:44:30 AM EDT
[#14]
I use Black Hills 52 grain HP. they are super accurate. this is for Coyote only..I wouldnt use it for deer. Id step up to .243 for that as a minimum(but a good minimum).
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Posted: 2/27/2015 9:55:02 AM EDT
[#15]
Not being an azz, but it sounds like you have some educating needed before you are teaching your daughter. Understand twist rate and how it affects bullet travel, There are more variables than what you are hunting, how long of shots are likely? I have killed Yotes out West at 600 yards, where I am now, 100 yards is a long shot, every place is different. Knowing what your barrel prefers is some of the best advice you have received. Keep reading and learning, it won't take long before it all will start making sense.
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Posted: 2/27/2015 10:18:14 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whatever is cheap and shoots accurately. Hitting a 40 lb yote with a .224 55gr fmj is like hitting a human with a bullet almost double the diameter of a 50cal. Your math is off by alot. And you're making a linear relationship between bullet weight and bullet dimension. Doubling the diameter of a .50 cal quadruples the weight, meaning a 650 gr .50 would be roughly 2600 gr if sized up to 1.00. So that projectile of 2600 grains weighs roughly 47 times more than a 55 gr bullet. I don't know about you, but I don't weigh 47 times more than a coyote ;) |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 10:31:51 AM EDT
[#17]
I have had good luck with Federal 62gr fusions. Cheap, acuurate (in my Ar's) , but as with any bullet of any caliber, shot placement is #1 priority.
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Posted: 2/27/2015 11:00:38 AM EDT
[#18]
For deer:
Speer gold dot 64gr Federal fusion 62 gr Winchester 64gr For yotes: Any a-max would do great like 55gr Hornady red label or 65gr TAP Also worth a look at some Federal black tip 55gr -- I forget the labeling |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 11:49:33 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Id probably do a Barns TSX or Hornady GMX I don't hunt coyote but I use Barnes TSX 70gr for pigs and it is a great round (expensive tho) |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 2:01:26 PM EDT
[#20]
It's funny how coyotes seem pretty fragile when hit by just about any decent bullet, so the main criteria should probably be accuracy for your rifle and the distance out to which you're shooting. I kinda like .243 in an AR10, but that's strictly preferential. Plus, pigs often show up around here, and the .243 has a little wider latitude for them. Still, .223 will kill just about anything with shot placement. Do others of you out there find that coyotes don't really need expensive "killer bullets" as long as accuracy and reach are reasonably achieved? My expensive .223 varmint bullet is the sub-$20-a-box Winchester Varmint-X in 55 grain soft point or polymer point. What shoots well out of your rifle is what's important.
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Posted: 2/27/2015 2:47:46 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your math is off by alot. And you're making a linear relationship between bullet weight and bullet dimension. Doubling the diameter of a .50 cal quadruples the weight, meaning a 650 gr .50 would be roughly 2600 gr if sized up to 1.00. So that projectile of 2600 grains weighs roughly 47 times more than a 55 gr bullet. I don't know about you, but I don't weigh 47 times more than a coyote ;) Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Whatever is cheap and shoots accurately. Hitting a 40 lb yote with a .224 55gr fmj is like hitting a human with a bullet almost double the diameter of a 50cal. Your math is off by alot. And you're making a linear relationship between bullet weight and bullet dimension. Doubling the diameter of a .50 cal quadruples the weight, meaning a 650 gr .50 would be roughly 2600 gr if sized up to 1.00. So that projectile of 2600 grains weighs roughly 47 times more than a 55 gr bullet. I don't know about you, but I don't weigh 47 times more than a coyote ;) |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 3:28:36 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Whatever is cheap and shoots accurately. Hitting a 40 lb yote with a .224 55gr fmj is like hitting a human with a bullet almost double the diameter of a 50cal. Your math is off by alot. And you're making a linear relationship between bullet weight and bullet dimension. Doubling the diameter of a .50 cal quadruples the weight, meaning a 650 gr .50 would be roughly 2600 gr if sized up to 1.00. So that projectile of 2600 grains weighs roughly 47 times more than a 55 gr bullet. I don't know about you, but I don't weigh 47 times more than a coyote ;) so your analogy is a little extreme 
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Posted: 2/27/2015 3:34:27 PM EDT
[#23]
Three words. Forty mike mike.
Unless you want to eat it or someshit. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 3:54:48 PM EDT
[#24]
Speed kills with small animals. Flat trajectory and high energy transfer with a bullet of proper construction for the task is key.
For this reason, lighter bullets with solid construction should be considered. Don't give up the velocity advantages by going to long range target type bullets. I think a 62 grain Barnes TSX is just about ideal. Solid copper. Expands reliably with razor sharp petals at the ranges typical for this kind of hunting. Even the 55 TSX would be fine for coyote sized animals. And yes, 1:9 is just about perfect for these bullets. My 1:9 barrel well-stabilizes the long for weight 62 grain TSX. It cannot stabilize the 70 grain ones, but they are simply not needed for coyotes, or even white tail deer. There is a reason the TSX has done so well in terminal ballistic tests. And their long for weight design improves BC and therefore downrange exterior ballistics over their lead core counterparts. Hornady's GMX is probably almost as good. When using these monolithic bullets, which almost always leave an exit wound, unlike varmint bullets, I try to aim deliberately for the shoulder, when possible, as they are so well constructed that they break bone and plow right on through, still expand well, before exiting. Speer Gold Dot, which I believe is 64 grains also does well in my 1:9. It is a rapidly expanding soft point that still holds together reasonably well. Lighter varmint bullets below 55 grains are probably not a good choice, however. I have some 35 grain Hornady NTX varmint bullets that even from a 16" barrel are at over 3,700 fps. But they would not have sufficient penetration on animals the size of coyotes or small deer. They strike like lightning bolts on smaller critters, though. Heavy target bullets or bullets designed to meet Hague Convention military standards and that do not expand well are NOT the proper medicine. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 4:05:11 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Speed kills with small animals. Flat trajectory and high energy transfer with a bullet of proper construction for the task is key. For this reason, lighter bullets with solid construction should be considered. Don't give up the velocity advantages by going to long range target type bullets. I think a 62 grain Barnes TSX is just about ideal. Solid copper. Expands reliably with razor sharp petals at the ranges typical for this kind of hunting. Even the 55 TSX would be fine for coyote sized animals. And yes, 1:9 is just about perfect for these bullets. My 1:9 barrel well-stabilizes the long for weight 62 grain TSX. It cannot stabilize the 70 grain ones, but they are simply not needed for coyotes, or even white tail deer. There is a reason the TSX has done so well in terminal ballistic tests. And their long for weight design improves BC and therefore downrange exterior ballistics over their lead core counterparts. Hornady's GMX is probably almost as good. When using these monolithic bullets, which almost always leave an exit wound, unlike varmint bullets, I try to aim deliberately for the shoulder, when possible, as they are so well constructed that they break bone and plow right on through, still expand well, before exiting. Speer Gold Dot, which I believe is 64 grains also does well in my 1:9. Heavy target bullets or bullets designed to meet Hague Convention military standards and that do not expand well are NOT the proper medicine. FYI, Barnes TSX bullet is used in Brown Tip ammo |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:04:36 PM EDT
[#26]
55 grain V Max work well for me.
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:05:30 PM EDT
[#27]
I've used 63 grain soft points from silver state on deer and coyotes with good luck... don't get discouraged if the yote runs a little ways after you shoot it.. they're tough animals
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Posted: 2/27/2015 6:04:12 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Speed kills with small animals. Dude, ANYTHING kills small animals. What you should say is "speed makes small animals blow up and that's awesome". I'm just saying. You don't need to spend a lot of money. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 6:16:17 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are you going 1/9 for any particular reason? You'll have much more ammo flexibility, especially if you want to kill a dear, if you go 1/7 or 1/8. Does anyone even make an accurate 1/9 barrel these days? is this a joke? are you really asking if 1:9 is accurate? OP will be fine, he doesn't need anything bigger than 69gr for yotes |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 6:32:32 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: is this a joke? are you really asking if 1:9 is accurate? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Are you going 1/9 for any particular reason? You'll have much more ammo flexibility, especially if you want to kill a dear, if you go 1/7 or 1/8. Does anyone even make an accurate 1/9 barrel these days? is this a joke? are you really asking if 1:9 is accurate? Did we read the same post? |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 7:20:35 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dude, ANYTHING kills small animals. What you should say is "speed makes small animals blow up and that's awesome". I'm just saying. You don't need to spend a lot of money. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Speed kills with small animals. Dude, ANYTHING kills small animals. What you should say is "speed makes small animals blow up and that's awesome". I'm just saying. You don't need to spend a lot of money. True. OP, solid copper is the way to go if you want to spend the money. But with a 1:9 you may limit the heavier grain bullets. Maybe not. You would need to test them to know for sure. My opinion is to grab a few boxes of the ammo you narrow it down to and shoot multiple 5 shot groups and see what you, your ammo and gun are doing consistently. Figure out what distance you will most likely be shooting from and if your ammo will work for that. But you don't need to break your bank you're not worried about saving meat nor pelt preservation. I wouldn't recommend anything less then 55gr on yotes. Even if you hate yotes, respect them with proper ammo IMO. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 7:37:48 PM EDT
[#32]
Topic Moved
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Posted: 2/28/2015 2:10:46 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
is this a joke? are you really asking if 1:9 is accurate? OP will be fine, he doesn't need anything bigger than 69gr for yotes Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Are you going 1/9 for any particular reason? You'll have much more ammo flexibility, especially if you want to kill a dear, if you go 1/7 or 1/8. Does anyone even make an accurate 1/9 barrel these days? is this a joke? are you really asking if 1:9 is accurate? OP will be fine, he doesn't need anything bigger than 69gr for yotes I think part of the confusion is that the OP mentioned hunting Coyotes and Deer. OP can use two different rounds, or use Ammo good for deer on Coyotes. I'm pretty sure that plenty of rounds that work well on a 40lbs Coyote will not work well on a 120lbs or heavier deer. |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 5:22:39 AM EDT
[#34]
The Triple-Shock X is really long because it's all copper, the 62 is recommended for 1:8 or faster. The 55gr TSX is recommended for 1:9 or faster though.
What about the Nosler Bonded Solid Base 64gr for deer? Is the Federal Fusion preferred over it? |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 9:30:04 AM EDT
[#35]
For coyotes and whitetails i use hornadys 55gr sp's, not the sx and not the v-max unless just for varmits, the soft points are good little deer bullets, every year i prove it to myself.
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Posted: 2/28/2015 2:46:20 PM EDT
[#36]
Around here, the yotes HATE this ammo
Remember, every barrel shoots differently. What groups awesome in one barrel might not do so well in another identical barrel. You're going to have to experiment to find what works best (accuracy wise) in your rifle. For yotes 1:9 twist will work, no problem but if you're going to buy a rifle, go with 1:7 and have more versatility with heavier projos. IMO, a 77 grain 5.56 is insufficient for deer. Sure, it will kill no problem, but the odds of an inhumane kill are higher with lousy shot placement. As always shot placement is more important than the ammo you decide to use. |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 9:36:11 PM EDT
[#37]
Any .223 load you hit a coyote with is going to work imo; they're what - maybe three times the size of average house cat..? I'd buy one box each of several light-to-medium bullet loads (40-64 grains), and see which one(s) your specific gun shoots well with. I personally don't shoot any .223 load lighter than 55 grain, but even a varmint-oriented 45-grain like the Win/USA 45 JHP hitting a 30-lb animal at mach three will kill it deader than sin.
Also, I wouldn't worry at all about a 1:9 being inherently inaccurate. There are good barrels and bad barrels in all twist rates. |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 11:37:29 PM EDT
[#38]
I use M193 for yotes, but just about anything will work, assuming it's accurate enough at the range you're shooting.
For deer, 64gr Gold Dots are the best I've found. TSX gives better penetration, but less trauma and slower kills in my experience. (Zips up flameproof suit.) My sons have killed 9 whitetails and a bunch of hogs with the Gold Dots, at ranges from 75-200 yards, and they were all DRT, with massive trauma, and complete penetration (up to 24"). |
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Posted: 3/1/2015 3:08:57 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:...(Zips up flameproof suit.)...  Yep, discussing ".223 vs. deer" will get folks wound up; no way around it. It works, it's more powerful than a lot of the guns our dads used back in the 30's & 40's, it enjoys the benefits of bullet-design advances of the last few decades, and people will still start foaming at the mouth and screaming about its inherent inadequacy when this discussion comes up.
It's best to avoid the subject, rather than going around tipping folks' sacred cows... |
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Posted: 3/1/2015 9:59:50 PM EDT
[#40]
I was talking about the TSX sacred cow... now you have me worried, I've opened up two fronts!
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Posted: 3/2/2015 2:34:52 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was talking about the TSX sacred cow... now you have me worried, I've opened up two fronts! Ahh, an altogether different sacred cow... Well, better get your house in order then; you're clearly doomed to eternal internet banishment for that blasphemy. 
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Posted: 3/2/2015 12:50:51 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
I am getting a AR with a 16" barrel and 1:9 twist. I am not much into plinking... so will generally use my AR for yote hunting. i am unsure of what brand and grains to go with a 1:9 twist. Oh, yOtes...I thought you were talking about youtes, like as in "two youtes..." |
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Posted: 3/3/2015 2:40:21 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh, yOtes...I thought you were talking about youtes, like as in "two youtes..." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I am getting a AR with a 16" barrel and 1:9 twist. I am not much into plinking... so will generally use my AR for yote hunting. i am unsure of what brand and grains to go with a 1:9 twist. Oh, yOtes...I thought you were talking about youtes, like as in "two youtes..." 
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Posted: 3/3/2015 4:44:16 PM EDT
[#44]
If you don't care about pelt damage, then I would stay away from the bonded bullets or TSXs - not because they're bad, but because lightweight, fragmenting bullets on varmints are absolutely devastating. A 50-55gr bullet with a polymer tip (Nosler BR, AMAX, VMAX, you name it) ought to guarantee spectacular results.
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Posted: 3/4/2015 4:35:46 PM EDT
[#45]
I have shot 6-12 coyotes a year for 20 plus years.
I mostly used 75 grain Hornady BTHP at 2700 - 2900 fps from the 20 inch stainless 1:9 bull barrel. The 75's fragment out to 150-200 yards depending on MV. I have also used the 62 Fusion and Mk318 a bit. Even at 2700 fps, the 75 puts them down much faster than a 53 grain Vmax at 3400 fps. this has really surprised me. I continue to use the 53 because it makes range estimation at night so easy. But they typically run 10-30 yards, seldom going down to shot unless CNS hit. the 75 grain does have almost 50% more fragments that the 53, and twice (literally) the penetration, so I guess that makes up for lack of velocity. the 53 causes some horrible wounds, but they dont stop until they run out of blood. The 75 almost always put them down on the spot. For your applicaiton (16 inch barrel used for both coyotes and deer), an inexpensive 50 grain Federal tipped varmit which you can buy for under $10 a box might be the way to go, or a 55 Vmax. (The 53 Vmax is super performance pressure and not suitible for 16 inch barrels according to Hornady though I have used it sparingly). for deer the 62 Fusion as others have recommended is accurate and relatively inexpensive but is barely making 2700 fps from a 16 inch barrel. 2750 fps on a hot day. The 1:9 twist tends to throw different bullet weights fairly close together compared to a 1:7 but you will probably have to make a fine adjustment switching from coyote to deer ammo. |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 1:36:06 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you don't care about pelt damage, then I would stay away from the bonded bullets or TSXs - not because they're bad, but because lightweight, fragmenting bullets on varmints are absolutely devastating. A 50-55gr bullet with a polymer tip (Nosler BR, AMAX, VMAX, you name it) ought to guarantee spectacular results. The point of the lightweight varmint bullets is to explode inside the animal and not penetrate, thus not giving an exit wound at all. So the pelt is intact except for a small entrance wound. I haven't used any 55gr Vmax from a 16" tube on yotes, but from a 24" I haven't had an exit out to roughly 225 yards. They usually give around 4" of penetration. The bonded and solid copper bullets pretty much guarantee an exit on a coyote. I don't worry about hides as they haven't been worth enough to bother skinning them down here for years. |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 2:37:40 PM EDT
[#47]
For yotes I just use XM193. For deer though it would be worth picking up whatever hunting ammo they have on the shelf at Walmart above 55 grains
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