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Posted: 2/24/2015 2:24:26 PM EDT
I have a couple of ACOG's with M855 reticles.

My "if I had to use it for real" load is MK318, which has the same trajectory as M855, and of which I have an ample supply for that contingency (and zeroing as necessary), but it costs too much and is too frequently out of stock everywhere to use it for practice/training/fun.

I've been using M855 for the latter purposes, but with the sword of Damocles hanging over that...

I know 62gr plain-Jane FMJ bullets (i.e. without steel tips) are manufactured, and I would assume they would approximate M855 trajectory if loaded to that pressure/MV, but does anybody commercially manufacture such a load?.

Or, alternatively, is M193 close enough not to worry about it?
Link Posted: 2/24/2015 2:30:18 PM EDT
[#1]


Quoted:

alternatively, is M193 close enough not to worry about it?

View Quote


I will assume this. One wouldnt be doing precision shooting with said ACOG anyway, and I will assume that 193 will yield decent moa.
Link Posted: 2/24/2015 2:49:43 PM EDT
[#2]
Mk318 didn't match up to BDCs as well as they had hoped. Mk318 Mod 1 is supposed to correct that
Link Posted: 2/24/2015 3:08:11 PM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:
Mk318 didn't match up to BDCs as well as they had hoped. Mk318 Mod 1 is supposed to correct that
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If your source of Mk318 Mod 0 was US Armament, you will be disappointed to know today they discontinued it. I have emailed them, and I will let you know their response. I was lucky enough to have a couple cases on order before they did, but now I won't be shooting up as quickly.


Link Posted: 2/24/2015 3:34:43 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:
Mk318 didn't match up to BDCs as well as they had hoped. Mk318 Mod 1 is supposed to correct that
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First I'd heard of that, but googling I found this quite recent interview with an engineer on the project that confirms it...

Sal Fanelli: The Interview

Seems part of the Mod 1 change was to get the lead out of the design, replacing it with copper.  I'm not clear how that works for terminal performance.  As I understood it, in Mod 0 the lead-core front part of the bullet fragments which the solid copper rear part keeps going.  I don't imagine that the all-copper Mod1 fragments, but as it is still an open tip perhaps the front part deforms in some way that produces an effect similar to expansion.

Article says to expect a decision by the Marines on Mk318 Mod 1 vs M855A1 within a year, but seems to be saying Canada has already adopted Mod 1.

At any rate, I'd expect Mod 1 to pass ATF muster, or else Barnes is in trouble.  I'd be surprised if M855A1 ever gets the ATF nod to sell to civilians.

I wonder how off Mod 0 is in the ACOG.  Truth to tell I haven't had an opportunity to shoot it past 200 yards.  
Link Posted: 2/24/2015 3:42:48 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:

If your source of Mk318 Mod 0 was US Armament, you will be disappointed to know today they discontinued it. I have emailed them, and I will let you know their response. I was lucky enough to have a couple cases on order before they did, but now I won't be shooting up as quickly.

View Quote


That's where I got mine, but that was some time ago and it had disappeared off their web site during the ammo shortage, but they told me by email  they had it on order and expected it to show up eventually.  Eventually it did, and I got what should be a lifetime supply for my usage as soon as it did (early 2014, maybe even 2013 - can't remember).

Based on the interview I linked to above, perhaps the Marines ordered all they need for a while and are not intending to order any more Mod 0 ever (either Mod 1 or M855A1, as the decision goes), so Federal isn't making it anymore.  There would need to be some minimum demand for them to make it.  Unfortunately, the other barrier-blind 5.56mm-pressure presumably-M855-trajectory loads are even harder to find, so hopefully the Marines go with Mod 1 vs M855A1 and ATF approves it for sale to the public and all will be well.
Link Posted: 2/24/2015 5:36:24 PM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 2/24/2015 7:13:07 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


First I'd heard of that, but googling I found this quite recent interview with an engineer on the project that confirms it...

Sal Fanelli: The Interview

Seems part of the Mod 1 change was to get the lead out of the design, replacing it with copper.  I'm not clear how that works for terminal performance.  As I understood it, in Mod 0 the lead-core front part of the bullet fragments which the solid copper rear part keeps going.  I don't imagine that the all-copper Mod1 fragments, but as it is still an open tip perhaps the front part deforms in some way that produces an effect similar to expansion.

Article says to expect a decision by the Marines on Mk318 Mod 1 vs M855A1 within a year, but seems to be saying Canada has already adopted Mod 1.

At any rate, I'd expect Mod 1 to pass ATF muster, or else Barnes is in trouble.  I'd be surprised if M855A1 ever gets the ATF nod to sell to civilians.

I wonder how off Mod 0 is in the ACOG.  Truth to tell I haven't had an opportunity to shoot it past 200 yards.  
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Mk318 didn't match up to BDCs as well as they had hoped. Mk318 Mod 1 is supposed to correct that


First I'd heard of that, but googling I found this quite recent interview with an engineer on the project that confirms it...

Sal Fanelli: The Interview

Seems part of the Mod 1 change was to get the lead out of the design, replacing it with copper.  I'm not clear how that works for terminal performance.  As I understood it, in Mod 0 the lead-core front part of the bullet fragments which the solid copper rear part keeps going.  I don't imagine that the all-copper Mod1 fragments, but as it is still an open tip perhaps the front part deforms in some way that produces an effect similar to expansion.

Article says to expect a decision by the Marines on Mk318 Mod 1 vs M855A1 within a year, but seems to be saying Canada has already adopted Mod 1.

At any rate, I'd expect Mod 1 to pass ATF muster, or else Barnes is in trouble.  I'd be surprised if M855A1 ever gets the ATF nod to sell to civilians.

I wonder how off Mod 0 is in the ACOG.  Truth to tell I haven't had an opportunity to shoot it past 200 yards.  


The mod 1 uses a longer front OTM portion, with a compressed sintered copper core with the jacket surrounding that.  It continues to fragment like the Mod 0
Link Posted: 2/24/2015 8:29:49 PM EDT
[#8]
If it is a commercial round that you seek, the Hornady 62 grain Tap Barrier load is awful close. That said, it's a pricey, but readily available.
Link Posted: 2/25/2015 12:15:31 AM EDT
[#9]
Federal did load a 62 grain FMJ that was not 855 . I am not sure if it is still available . It seems to shoot pretty close to 855
Link Posted: 2/25/2015 9:57:58 AM EDT
[#10]
CBC has a 62 fmj load that doesn't have the steel core.

I liked it, was going to buy a case of it, then ban-aggedon made it vanish from store shelves.
Link Posted: 2/25/2015 11:58:08 AM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:
As much as I hate to refer to anything in GD, there is a thread running there that, in among the usual nonsense, may actually have some relevant nuggets:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1721234_Any_other_BDC_ed_ACOG_fans_just_realize_the_M855_ban_screws_everything_up_.html&page=3
View Quote


Yeh, some good stuff there & in the threads linked to therein - thanks!
Link Posted: 2/25/2015 12:06:16 PM EDT
[#12]
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Quoted:

The mod 1 uses a longer front OTM portion, with a compressed sintered copper core with the jacket surrounding that.  It continues to fragment like the Mod 0
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So long as the core isn't "beryllium copper", then, that's excellent news because not only should it still work as well as Mod 0 (with a better trajectory re M855 BDC's), but it would also fall outside the statutory "armor piercing" definition.
Link Posted: 2/25/2015 12:08:35 PM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:
If it is a commercial round that you seek, the Hornady 62 grain Tap Barrier load is awful close. That said, it's a pricey, but readily available.
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"pricey" would be a deal killer as a replacement for M855 in training/practice/fun, although perhaps an option if I end up needing a replacement for Mk318 down the road.
Link Posted: 2/25/2015 12:09:18 PM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:
Federal did load a 62 grain FMJ that was not 855 . I am not sure if it is still available . It seems to shoot pretty close to 855
View Quote


Is that 5.56 pressure or .223?
Link Posted: 2/25/2015 12:16:12 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
CBC has a 62 fmj load that doesn't have the steel core.

I liked it, was going to buy a case of it, then ban-aggedon made it vanish from store shelves.
View Quote


This stuff?

http://www.luckygunner.com/556x45mm-62gr-fmj-cbc-556b-1000
Link Posted: 2/25/2015 1:17:36 PM EDT
[#16]

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Quoted:



Quoted:

CBC has a 62 fmj load that doesn't have the steel core.



I liked it, was going to buy a case of it, then ban-aggedon made it vanish from store shelves.




This stuff?



http://www.luckygunner.com/556x45mm-62gr-fmj-cbc-556b-1000





That's my favorite ammo. It was plentiful before this scare started but it's pretty much dried up



 
Link Posted: 2/26/2015 12:46:35 PM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:


That's my favorite ammo. It was plentiful before this scare started but it's pretty much dried up
 
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
CBC has a 62 fmj load that doesn't have the steel core.

I liked it, was going to buy a case of it, then ban-aggedon made it vanish from store shelves.


This stuff?

http://www.luckygunner.com/556x45mm-62gr-fmj-cbc-556b-1000


That's my favorite ammo. It was plentiful before this scare started but it's pretty much dried up
 


Well, not being affected by the ban I would expect it to come back pretty quickly, unless they do something else of course.
Link Posted: 2/26/2015 4:36:11 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
CBC has a 62 fmj load that doesn't have the steel core.

I liked it, was going to buy a case of it, then ban-aggedon made it vanish from store shelves.


This stuff?

http://www.luckygunner.com/556x45mm-62gr-fmj-cbc-556b-1000


Yep that stuff.
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