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Posted: 11/15/2014 11:20:33 PM EDT
[#1]
I bought some of the MSR but I only have a 16" and 22" barrel 223.
Also my clear gel is kinda used so it's pretty brown now...
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Posted: 11/15/2014 11:40:44 PM EDT
[#2]
paging bluefalcon...
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Posted: 11/15/2014 11:45:53 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: paging bluefalcon... |
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Posted: 11/16/2014 9:45:57 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Looked via google and youtube and couldn't find what I am looking for. Anyone got a link to a video of Federal Fusion MSR being fired from a 20" barrel into ballistics gel? tnoutdoors9 has a video but I was hoping for something into clear gel. Love his testing but again wish he used clear gel, and compared to something like m193 or speers HP(think thats right) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DejxnUqQ92A |
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Posted: 11/16/2014 5:37:57 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DejxnUqQ92A Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Looked via google and youtube and couldn't find what I am looking for. Anyone got a link to a video of Federal Fusion MSR being fired from a 20" barrel into ballistics gel? tnoutdoors9 has a video but I was hoping for something into clear gel. Love his testing but again wish he used clear gel, and compared to something like m193 or speers HP(think thats right) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DejxnUqQ92A ETA: also that was 18.5" barrel
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Posted: 11/16/2014 7:26:17 PM EDT
[#6]
The MSR's are the exact same thing save for the annealing on the case and maybe a hardened primer.
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Posted: 11/16/2014 7:34:39 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The MSR's are the exact same thing save for the annealing on the case and maybe a hardened primer.  http://youtu.be/qE5ZnQmKy2o |
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Posted: 11/16/2014 8:03:05 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then why do they list the velocity 250 fps slower? Shorter test barrel? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The MSR's are the exact same thing save for the annealing on the case and maybe a hardened primer. http://youtu.be/qE5ZnQmKy2oyep |
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Posted: 11/16/2014 9:15:55 PM EDT
[#9]
I bet the 223 was tested out of a 24" bolt action barrel and the MSR was tested out of a 16" AR. same load, 50-75 fps loss per inch of barrel
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Posted: 11/16/2014 11:16:31 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bet the 223 was tested out of a 24" bolt action barrel and the MSR was tested out of a 16" AR. same load, 50-75 fps loss per inch of barrel I think they have different propellants as well. That would account for the different velocities in the video you posted. I think the MSR probably has a faster burning propellant better suited for common MSR barrel length, ie 16in. |
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Posted: 11/16/2014 11:22:44 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He doesn't use clear gel either Quote HistoryQuoted:
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paging bluefalcon... There's a reason for that...I don't think there's a clear gel that is calibrated to FBI standards. |
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Posted: 11/17/2014 12:04:55 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's a reason for that...I don't think there's a clear gel that is calibrated to FBI standards. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: paging bluefalcon... There's a reason for that...I don't think there's a clear gel that is calibrated to FBI standards. |
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Posted: 11/17/2014 11:20:45 AM EDT
[#13]
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Yes there is, the stuff I use is made by clearballistics.com Quote HistoryQuoted:
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paging bluefalcon... There's a reason for that...I don't think there's a clear gel that is calibrated to FBI standards. Yeah, and I know they have references to it being to spec, but I'm thinking I read that it's actually not. Something about how it doesn't calibrate the same. Maybe it's just that the traditional yellow gel is easier to make, or cheaper, and that's why you don't see the clear stuff. |
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Posted: 11/17/2014 11:38:37 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, and I know they have references to it being to spec, but I'm thinking I read that it's actually not. Something about how it doesn't calibrate the same. Maybe it's just that the traditional yellow gel is easier to make, or cheaper, and that's why you don't see the clear stuff. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: paging bluefalcon... There's a reason for that...I don't think there's a clear gel that is calibrated to FBI standards. Yeah, and I know they have references to it being to spec, but I'm thinking I read that it's actually not. Something about how it doesn't calibrate the same. Maybe it's just that the traditional yellow gel is easier to make, or cheaper, and that's why you don't see the clear stuff. The traditional gel is way more expensive because it's not reusable. It's also temperature sensitive, where the clear stuff is not.
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Posted: 11/21/2014 7:54:42 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes there is, the stuff I use is made by clearballistics.com Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: paging bluefalcon... There's a reason for that...I don't think there's a clear gel that is calibrated to FBI standards. I finally moved to a place that I can shoot in my back yard. I plan to buy some of their gel. Is there any reason to buy 20% NATO gel? I heard it's designed for FMJ testing, so it probably wouldn't matter much to me, since I mostly plan to test hunting and SD rounds. Just curious if anyone keeps any 20% gel on hand. |
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Posted: 11/21/2014 4:55:47 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I finally moved to a place that I can shoot in my back yard. I plan to buy some of their gel. Is there any reason to buy 20% NATO gel? I heard it's designed for FMJ testing, so it probably wouldn't matter much to me, since I mostly plan to test hunting and SD rounds. Just curious if anyone keeps any 20% gel on hand. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: paging bluefalcon... There's a reason for that...I don't think there's a clear gel that is calibrated to FBI standards. I finally moved to a place that I can shoot in my back yard. I plan to buy some of their gel. Is there any reason to buy 20% NATO gel? I heard it's designed for FMJ testing, so it probably wouldn't matter much to me, since I mostly plan to test hunting and SD rounds. Just curious if anyone keeps any 20% gel on hand. Remember gel doesn't necessarily tell you what it will do in an animal/body, it's more for comparing one round to another and gauging performance against a standard. With that said I think using a gel that conforms to the standard is going to be more beneficial to your quest for knowledge. Also if you can shoot in your back yard I officially hate your guts. Unless I can come over and shoot too, in that case we are now best friends.  ETA: they will have the FBI sized 10% block on sale for 89.99 for black friday, I plan to get a fresh one then. Coupon code BF14FBI |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 10:35:34 PM EDT
[#17]
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It comes with a calibration card for how far the steel bb @ 590 penetrated. I've seen tests with standard gel compared to it side by side and it is almost identical. The traditional gel is way more expensive because it's not reusable. It's also temperature sensitive, where the clear stuff is not. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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He doesn't use clear gel either There's a reason for that...I don't think there's a clear gel that is calibrated to FBI standards. Yeah, and I know they have references to it being to spec, but I'm thinking I read that it's actually not. Something about how it doesn't calibrate the same. Maybe it's just that the traditional yellow gel is easier to make, or cheaper, and that's why you don't see the clear stuff. The traditional gel is way more expensive because it's not reusable. It's also temperature sensitive, where the clear stuff is not. Dr Roberts has said several times that these are NOT the same. While penetration depth may be similar, other factors come in to play such as the clear gel not showing temporary cavity or the potential for different degrees of expansion due to different density/material composition compared to 10%. (You can also check out brassfetcher - the conclusion raised is that these are not identical) Clear gel is great for informal tests and has several great attributes such as far lower temperature sensitivity and the fact it can be reused. Different strokes for different folks, but the two are not ballistically identical. |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 10:39:32 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dr Roberts has said several times that these are NOT the same. While penetration depth may be similar, other factors come in to play such as the clear gel not showing temporary cavity or the potential for different degrees of expansion due to different density/material composition compared to 10%. (You can also check out brassfetcher - the conclusion raised is that these are not identical) Clear gel is great for informal tests and has several great attributes such as far lower temperature sensitivity and the fact it can be reused. Different strokes for different folks, but the two are not ballistically identical. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: There's a reason for that...I don't think there's a clear gel that is calibrated to FBI standards. Yeah, and I know they have references to it being to spec, but I'm thinking I read that it's actually not. Something about how it doesn't calibrate the same. Maybe it's just that the traditional yellow gel is easier to make, or cheaper, and that's why you don't see the clear stuff. The traditional gel is way more expensive because it's not reusable. It's also temperature sensitive, where the clear stuff is not. Dr Roberts has said several times that these are NOT the same. While penetration depth may be similar, other factors come in to play such as the clear gel not showing temporary cavity or the potential for different degrees of expansion due to different density/material composition compared to 10%. (You can also check out brassfetcher - the conclusion raised is that these are not identical) Clear gel is great for informal tests and has several great attributes such as far lower temperature sensitivity and the fact it can be reused. Different strokes for different folks, but the two are not ballistically identical. |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 1:03:07 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Penetration and expansion are the same as traditional gel, but it is always smart to compare results from similar test medium. The clear synthetic stuff is becoming more and more common for obvious reasons. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yeah, and I know they have references to it being to spec, but I'm thinking I read that it's actually not. Something about how it doesn't calibrate the same. Maybe it's just that the traditional yellow gel is easier to make, or cheaper, and that's why you don't see the clear stuff. The traditional gel is way more expensive because it's not reusable. It's also temperature sensitive, where the clear stuff is not. Dr Roberts has said several times that these are NOT the same. While penetration depth may be similar, other factors come in to play such as the clear gel not showing temporary cavity or the potential for different degrees of expansion due to different density/material composition compared to 10%. (You can also check out brassfetcher - the conclusion raised is that these are not identical) Clear gel is great for informal tests and has several great attributes such as far lower temperature sensitivity and the fact it can be reused. Different strokes for different folks, but the two are not ballistically identical. Similar, but not the same. Brassfetcher Comparison or this discussion the clear gel is passable for penetration or expansion (something water jugs could do as well), but the real deficiency is seen with the gross under representation of the temporary cavity, especially for rifle rounds. |
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