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Posted: 10/5/2014 9:29:49 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
If you were looking to load your 16", 1:9 carbine with the idea of working felony vehicle stops, what load would you choose? (One caveat: nothing .mil-only, etc; choosing from over-the-counter or online-available options.) Obvious options seem like m855 or a heavy 75-79 grainer. Curious for thoughts; thanks. M193. Speed kills. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 9:42:51 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
If you were looking to load your 16", 1:9 carbine with the idea of working felony vehicle stops, what load would you choose? (One caveat: nothing .mil-only, etc; choosing from over-the-counter or online-available options.) Obvious options seem like m855 or a heavy 75-79 grainer. Curious for thoughts; thanks. I would suggest just using the ammo you are issued. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 10:34:08 PM EDT
[#3]
Barnes TSX in the 55 or 62 gr. versions.
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Posted: 10/5/2014 11:03:22 PM EDT
[#4]
Black Hills 5.56mm 50gr TSX BH (Barrier Blind)
Make sure its the proprietary modified 50 grain Barnes TSX bullet made especially for Black Hills, and not the normal TSX 50gr. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 11:14:05 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:I would suggest just using the ammo you are issued. Quote HistoryQuoted:I would suggest just using the ammo you are issued. We're not issued any ammo; we provide our own within given parameters. I currently carry 64-grain powerpointplus (now discontinued) in my carbine. Just looking to learn what are the better options for vehicle-barrier concerns. We're seeing a lot more drugs being trafficked near our area. Not something I'm losing sleep over - the 64-grain PowerPointPlus is a great load and I still have a fair amount of it - just looking for input from the hive mind on what might be 'better' to have a specific magazine or two of. I'd assume that a heavier bullet like maybe a 75-79 OTM, or a medium-heavy fmj like M855 might be arguably 'better' on vehicle penetration. If nothing else is suggested that sounds promising, I'll probably just load up a mag or two of 855 and call it good. I'm not particularly ammo finicky or an ammo snob; just looking for input. Quoted:M193. Speed kills. The M193 isn't a bad performer, and I'm more comfortable with it than a lot of people are; but I would assume (and could be completely wrong) that the heavier, steel-core M855 would be a better anti-vehicle round. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 11:21:33 PM EDT
[#6]
The federal fusion would be a lot better. It's a bonded round and bonded rounds have proven to be a lot better at glass and intermediate barrier penetration. It's 62 gn
And almost exactly the same as the new Speer gold dot. About $16 a box. I wouldn't hesitate to use it over many of the rounds on the market. The best would be the 62 gn tsx by Barnes or any of the other manufacturers on the market that make it. It's just expensive. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 11:21:54 PM EDT
[#7]
When you say anti vehicle, are you looking to disable the car or the driver?
I ask, because stopping a car with 5.56 isn't easy. Years ago I used to shoot with a guy who dealt with junk cars. Every once in a while he bring an old junker to his field, start the engine, and we'd take turns trying to shut it down with gunfire. It was actually a lot of fun, but it was a bitch. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 11:48:31 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We're not issued any ammo; we provide our own within given parameters. I currently carry 64-grain powerpointplus (now discontinued) in my carbine. Just looking to learn what are the better options for vehicle-barrier concerns. We're seeing a lot more drugs being trafficked near our area. Not something I'm losing sleep over - the 64-grain PowerPointPlus is a great load and I still have a fair amount of it - just looking for input from the hive mind on what might be 'better' to have a specific magazine or two of. I'd assume that a heavier bullet like maybe a 75-79 OTM, or a medium-heavy fmj like M855 might be arguably 'better' on vehicle penetration. If nothing else is suggested that sounds promising, I'll probably just load up a mag or two of 855 and call it good. I'm not particularly ammo finicky or an ammo snob; just looking for input. The M193 isn't a bad performer, and I'm more comfortable with it than a lot of people are; but I would assume (and could be completely wrong) that the heavier, steel-core M855 would be a better anti-vehicle round. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:I would suggest just using the ammo you are issued. We're not issued any ammo; we provide our own within given parameters. I currently carry 64-grain powerpointplus (now discontinued) in my carbine. Just looking to learn what are the better options for vehicle-barrier concerns. We're seeing a lot more drugs being trafficked near our area. Not something I'm losing sleep over - the 64-grain PowerPointPlus is a great load and I still have a fair amount of it - just looking for input from the hive mind on what might be 'better' to have a specific magazine or two of. I'd assume that a heavier bullet like maybe a 75-79 OTM, or a medium-heavy fmj like M855 might be arguably 'better' on vehicle penetration. If nothing else is suggested that sounds promising, I'll probably just load up a mag or two of 855 and call it good. I'm not particularly ammo finicky or an ammo snob; just looking for input. Quoted:M193. Speed kills. The M193 isn't a bad performer, and I'm more comfortable with it than a lot of people are; but I would assume (and could be completely wrong) that the heavier, steel-core M855 would be a better anti-vehicle round. I have shot some AR 500 with m193 and it penetrated where M855 didn't. I guess it's the velocity difference. There's nothing in a car that hard. If you shoot through a windshield you will get more deflection with M193 than M855, so I guess it's kind of a toss up as to what you are actually trying to disable. M193 will fuck a modern car up for sure, though. But a couple of mags of anything will probably do the job regardless. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 11:57:32 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The federal fusion would be a lot better. It's a bonded round and bonded rounds have proven to be a lot better at glass and intermediate barrier penetration. It's 62 gn... Quote HistoryQuoted:
The federal fusion would be a lot better. It's a bonded round and bonded rounds have proven to be a lot better at glass and intermediate barrier penetration. It's 62 gn... I've considered that one. I've bought several hundred rounds of it last year as potential for replacement for my non-replenishable stock of PP+, but haven't messed with it enough to have an informed opinion on it yet. It definitely gets good reviews. Quoted:
When you say anti vehicle, are you looking to disable the car or the driver?... As much as possible, maximize the odds of getting thru the vehicle to the driver. I'd trade off soft-tissue performance for increased hard-target performance in this case. I have to confess I'm surprised that the recommended loads are light- to medium-weight softpoints; albeit pretty much the cream of the softpoint crop. I would have assumed that either an fmj or heavy sp/hp would be the better choice, but sounds like my assumptions could be dead wrong. 
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Posted: 10/6/2014 12:02:56 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:...I have shot some AR 500 with m193 and it penetrated where M855 didn't. I guess it's the velocity difference. There's nothing in a car that hard... I have some (iirc 3/8") AR500 plates that I've shot with m193 at a hundred yards. Cratered about like a 180-grain .308sp, but didn't come near to full penetration. Never shot 855 at them. |
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Posted: 10/6/2014 12:30:56 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have some (iirc 3/8") AR500 plates that I've shot with m193 at a hundred yards. Cratered about like a 180-grain .308sp, but didn't come near to full penetration. Never shot 855 at them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:...I have shot some AR 500 with m193 and it penetrated where M855 didn't. I guess it's the velocity difference. There's nothing in a car that hard... I have some (iirc 3/8") AR500 plates that I've shot with m193 at a hundred yards. Cratered about like a 180-grain .308sp, but didn't come near to full penetration. Never shot 855 at them. Try it closer. I was at about 30 yards. Skip to 3:45. (not my video) 
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Posted: 10/6/2014 1:47:41 AM EDT
[#12]
I would vote for 62gr TBBC from Federal's LE line. They are the toughest of the bonded bullets and top of DocGKR list for LE duty loads. They are definitely tougher than GoldDots or Fusions and won't shed petals or pinch shut like the regular, non-50grBH TSX loads.
Or the BH 50gr TSX as someone else mentioned. |
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Posted: 10/6/2014 3:16:45 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
M193. Speed kills. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If you were looking to load your 16", 1:9 carbine with the idea of working felony vehicle stops, what load would you choose? (One caveat: nothing .mil-only, etc; choosing from over-the-counter or online-available options.) Obvious options seem like m855 or a heavy 75-79 grainer. Curious for thoughts; thanks. M193. Speed kills. WRONG. M193 will fragment upon impact with auto glass leaving nothing but small fragments left to penetrate the target. Proper barrier blind loads such as the FBI 62gr TBBC load (XM556FBIT3) or Winchester 64gr bonded load (Q3313/RA556B) are the way to go. Also as mentioned before the Black Hills 50gr is also an excellent choice. |
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Posted: 10/6/2014 7:53:11 AM EDT
[#14]
If you go to Federals (ATK) LE website it shows ballistic performance of most federal ammo through all the FBI ballistic tests, to include auto glass and body. Might want to check that out for some actual science. FWIW Speer GD is the bomb.
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Posted: 10/6/2014 8:24:02 AM EDT
[#15]
See if you can find some M995 5.56 AP (black tip).
CD |
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Posted: 10/6/2014 9:39:42 AM EDT
[#16]
Barrier Blind rounds
Something like MK318 or XM556FBIT3 which is specifically designed for shorter barrels and to maintain mass and trajectory through hard object like steel doors and car windows. Will run you close to $1 a round though so not exactly plinking ammo. If you can get some M855A1 would be a good choice, test data is showing it has great performance, maybe even better than mk318. Not for sale on the civ market at the moment, and good chance it may never be as it does have some of the properties that make it considered AP ammo, even if its not military contracts will keep all of the manufacturers busy for the next decade. M955 black tipped AP would be the best but unless you have some buddies in the special forces who are willing to risk loosing their job to steal some ammo i dont foresee the avg joe ever getting this. |
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Posted: 10/6/2014 11:54:26 AM EDT
[#17]
Quake,
I am surprised that no one has recomended the Winchester Ranger 64 grain bonded solid base. RA556B. It won the FBI competition and if you ever have to use it, saying you just used what the FBI does, sounds good in court. I have seen it as cheap as $20 a box though usually $30.. Its going nealry 2950 fps from a 16 inch and it is designed to stabilize in SBR and 1-9 twist. It was meant exactly for scenario you are talking about. In my tests it expands to over 45 caliber and looses just a few grains weight. Unlike the exxcellent Fusion and Gold Dot it is loaded to NATO velocity. (MSR will only get 2700-2750 fps from a carbine). With a bonded bullet speed kills because the bullets dont fragment so faster you push them larger the temporary cavity and permanant wound cavity. Use an ammo engine to find best deal. do not settle for Nosler or SSA ammo loaded with same bullet. Not NATO pressure and much, much lower velocity. |
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Posted: 10/6/2014 1:49:11 PM EDT
[#18]
http://le.atk.com/wound_ballistics/load_comparison/load_comparison.aspx
Informative page. Click Rifle, Select All, and take a look. |
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Posted: 10/6/2014 4:53:00 PM EDT
[#19]
Neither the m193 or M855 would be an ideal choice. Both do poorly through auto glass. The M855's construction is no more robust than M193 - and the steel penetrator is too lightweight in its own right to do well through auto glass. I would suggest Gold Dot/Fusion as the most readily available barrier blind load. Next I would choose a TSX bullet, as the most available, being able to find Barnes Vor-Tex at most big box retailers, or Black Hills loadings from 50-62grains. THere is also the Hornady GMX Barrier loads. The Heavy for Caliber OTM rounds do not do as well through glass as the bonded or monolithic bullets.
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Posted: 10/6/2014 5:47:40 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would vote for 62gr TBBC from Federal's LE line. They are the toughest of the bonded bullets and top of DocGKR list for LE duty loads. They are definitely tougher than GoldDots or Fusions and won't shed petals or pinch shut like the regular, non-50grBH TSX loads. Or the BH 50gr TSX as someone else mentioned. This. |
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Posted: 10/6/2014 6:15:12 PM EDT
[#21]
I was lucky enough to be part of a test of Federal LE223 55grain vs a car and some home window glass. The round was outstanding. We put a target in the drivers seat and used multiple angles. Pentrated well every time with great weight retetntion and very little deviation once it penetrated the glass or metal. On home double pane windows it also performed well.
Needless to say Ive been stocking up on it aittle at a time. It aint cheep. Acuracy is ~2" at 100yards. Not great but what one would expect from a soft point round. |
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Posted: 10/6/2014 6:42:53 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Black Hills 5.56mm 50gr TSX BH (Barrier Blind) Make sure its the proprietary modified 50 grain Barnes TSX bullet made especially for Black Hills, and not the normal TSX 50gr. /thread |
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Posted: 10/6/2014 7:43:05 PM EDT
[#23]
The 88 Magnum, it shoots through schools.
P |
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Posted: 10/6/2014 8:27:25 PM EDT
[#24]
Socom 16 in 7.62x51
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Posted: 10/6/2014 9:00:53 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The 88 Magnum, it shoots through schools. Why wuss out like that...? "The Hog" as my sons and I have come to call it - a Ruger SRH in .454 Casull that I had shortened to 5" some years ago. 
It's been my main woods gun for years now. I mostly shoot my own loads thru it, but would you believe you can actually get factory-loaded .454 casull FMJ stuff...? Yep, a .45-caliber revolver pushing a full metal jacket bullet at more than 1,800 ft/lbs of muzzle energy. 
For dealing with bad-tempered, rampaging Peterbilts I suppose. I'm not hurting for weapon options that can penetrate a vehicle (the 3" Black Magic Magnum slugs that the 930 loves, several .30-caliber options, etc). Maybe a better way to ask the question would be, "If you were working a vehicle checkpoint in Islamabad or wherever and had your choice of any ammo available, what round would you want loaded in your M4?" I'll never be working a checkpoint in Islamabad - I'm an old fart who got out of the army early in Ronald Reagan's first term.  Unfortunately, I'm not as up to date on available options as many here are, probably largely due to being an old fart.
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Posted: 10/6/2014 9:01:36 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Socom 16 in 7.62x51 And with black tip ammo. Which brings up this question.. I've heard back and forth over the yrs, whether black tip is illegal to have or not. Anyone? |
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Posted: 10/6/2014 10:21:39 PM EDT
[#27]
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2012-title18/pdf/USCODE-2012-title18-partI-chap44.pdf
From what I read in that (page 9 by adobe, 220 something from the actual code) it is illegal to posses/manufacture unless it is for use by the government, export, or test with the approval of the AG. |
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Posted: 10/7/2014 11:54:43 PM EDT
[#28]
70gr TSX will hold together well through glass... but you are not going to get much expansion out of it. Basically turns into a .22 caliber wadcutter.
 It does pretty well in bare/clothed gel... and I've personally shot some game with this bullet. It works. Down sides: DEEP penetration, little expansion after auto glass or steel. Increased down range risk because it does not fragment, and is more likely to ricochet. Up sides: DEEP penetration, if the bullet yaws, it's not going to fragment, so it's cutting a nice 3/4"ish long wound. WILL get through most glass or steel barriers and still penetrate 12+ inches. If I knew I was using a 5.56 rifle to shoot at things inside vehicles as a primary concern, and could mitigate the downsides as much as possible, I'd likely pick a TSX bullet. And I'd probably choose the 70gr for extra penetration. That said, the 70gr is really overkill for short range stuff. The 50, 55, and 62 grain TSX bullets are all going to behave pretty similarly. The LE specific 50gr load is probably more likely to expand after glass/steel. I am pretty sure that LE bullet is ONLY available in Black Hills loaded ammunition. For a general purpose load... I really like Gold Dot or Fusion in 64/62 grain flavor. |
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Posted: 10/8/2014 10:10:22 AM EDT
[#29]
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/615622/black-hills-ammunition-556x45mm-nato-50-grain-barnes-triple-shock-x-bullet-hollow-point-lead-free-box-of-50?cm_vc=ProductFinding
As suggested above, I like the BH 5.56 50 gr TSX. This load was specifically designed to hold together after penetrating autoglass or other barriers. It is not cheap but I think it is one of the better performing loads available. Just as an FYI and you may already be aware of this, deflection through glass can be pretty severe for the first few rounds with a lighter weight projectile. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/546184/federal-premium-vital-shok-ammunition-12-gauge-2-3-4-1-oz-deep-penetrator-truball-hollow-point-rifled-slug-box-of-5?cm_vc=ProductFinding Here is another option, while the shotgun loses out vs carbine in most areas punching through laminated glass is much easier with a shotgun slug. This slug went through 24" of ballistic gelatin after smashing though a windshield with no deviation from flight path. Plus, there is a $2/box rebate right now. 
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Posted: 10/9/2014 7:09:31 PM EDT
[#30]
Gold dot, fusion, trophy bonded bear claw.
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Posted: 10/10/2014 5:34:40 PM EDT
[#31]
The top round for vehicle penetration are the 50tsx, 62tbbc, 64 bsb, and I beleive recently docgkr amended his list to add the gmx bullets. Those are in no particular order, but if your looking for the best those are considered to be the best. Others like the gold dot will do well the only problem is that they are not as robustly constructed.
From testing the best performance I have ever seen is from the TOTM round. It was the precursor to the sost round. It is a similar design the only difference is that it weighs 77 grains, and it is bonded. If you Google 77 TOTM, you will get lots of hits. Its performance through auto glass was virtually the same as bare gel. It has everything going for it. It is heavy, bonded, and it is an otm. So there is no chance of feedramps leading. King mud brought up slugs. Docgkr says "mass beats glass". Brenneke has a few slugs that will penetrate 3 feet of gel, after passing through a winshield. If you need as much penetration as you can get the special forces short magnum, and special forces maximum barrier penetration. The maximum barrier penetration slugs will defeat a level 3a vest at 8 yards, and smash through both sides of an egine block. I have shot through rotors, steel wheels, and rail road ties with no problem. |
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Posted: 10/10/2014 5:43:05 PM EDT
[#32]
bonded core stuff seemed to well in our tests
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Posted: 10/11/2014 12:04:19 AM EDT
[#33]
Federal LE223T3  |
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Posted: 10/11/2014 9:53:55 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryIf you can find any... 
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Posted: 10/11/2014 9:57:06 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you can find any... Quote History |
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Posted: 10/11/2014 10:51:34 AM EDT
[#36]
If I was truly looking at barrier penetration I'd be looking at 7.62 at a minimum.
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Posted: 10/11/2014 11:13:01 AM EDT
[#37]
At felony stops I use my 870 with 00 buck shot...Rifles are best used at greater distances. Nine 32 caliber rounds in close quarters are better that one 55-75 grain projectile. I do prefer my AR clearing buildings such as schools due to possible longer shots. I work in the county where driveways can be a half a mile or longer. Nothing like an AR if the bad guy starts hammering away at you with grandpaws 30-30 from a couple hundred yards out.
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Posted: 10/11/2014 1:47:58 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have to confess I'm surprised that the recommended loads are light- to medium-weight softpoints; albeit pretty much the cream of the softpoint crop. I would have assumed that either an fmj or heavy sp/hp would be the better choice, but sounds like my assumptions could be dead wrong. K=0.5*m*v^2 |
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Posted: 10/11/2014 5:12:22 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
K=0.5*m*v^2 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have to confess I'm surprised that the recommended loads are light- to medium-weight softpoints; albeit pretty much the cream of the softpoint crop. I would have assumed that either an fmj or heavy sp/hp would be the better choice, but sounds like my assumptions could be dead wrong. K=0.5*m*v^2 The only problem with formulas is they do not account for construction of the bullet. You can have 2 bullets that are identical in weight, and velocity. While having different construction, the bullet that is more robustly constructed will handle barriers better. |
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Posted: 10/11/2014 8:35:54 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Try it closer. I was at about 30 yards. Skip to 3:45. (not my video)  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1K3wCRjcdMQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted:...I have shot some AR 500 with m193 and it penetrated where M855 didn't. I guess it's the velocity difference. There's nothing in a car that hard... I have some (iirc 3/8") AR500 plates that I've shot with m193 at a hundred yards. Cratered about like a 180-grain .308sp, but didn't come near to full penetration. Never shot 855 at them. Try it closer. I was at about 30 yards. Skip to 3:45. (not my video) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1K3wCRjcdM |
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Posted: 10/12/2014 12:39:24 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This has been our experience from 2 gun matches. The greatest damage the R500 steel is due to speed and that was from XM193 and not the green tips. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:...I have shot some AR 500 with m193 and it penetrated where M855 didn't. I guess it's the velocity difference. There's nothing in a car that hard... I have some (iirc 3/8") AR500 plates that I've shot with m193 at a hundred yards. Cratered about like a 180-grain .308sp, but didn't come near to full penetration. Never shot 855 at them. Try it closer. I was at about 30 yards. Skip to 3:45. (not my video) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1K3wCRjcdMThere is a reason that the steel body armor rifle plates might be special threat tested to stop M855, but will be punctured by M193, or any of the light, fast bullets... Special threat because neither 5.56 nor .223 are part of the standard test for Level 3 or 4 plates. That reason being that the faster bullets penetrate better. In the store I work at the most damage done to an AR500 plate was a 30-06 AP bullet that was handloaded into a .300 Win mag at much higher velocity than it ever could have achieved in a 30-06. The second most was the cratering done by a .17 at around 4500 FPS. The light .223 rounds were third and fourth. More than the standard .300 win mag, .458, .308, and 12 gauge. On another site there was a test of hard plates. The steel plates were penetrated by the fast .223 while M855 was easily stopped. |
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Posted: 10/13/2014 10:38:35 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is a reason that the steel body armor rifle plates might be special threat tested to stop M855, but will be punctured by M193, or any of the light, fast bullets... Special threat because neither 5.56 nor .223 are part of the standard test for Level 3 or 4 plates. That reason being that the faster bullets penetrate better. In the store I work at the most damage done to an AR500 plate was a 30-06 AP bullet that was handloaded into a .300 Win mag at much higher velocity than it ever could have achieved in a 30-06. The second most was the cratering done by a .17 at around 4500 FPS. The light .223 rounds were third and fourth. More than the standard .300 win mag, .458, .308, and 12 gauge. On another site there was a test of hard plates. The steel plates were penetrated by the fast .223 while M855 was easily stopped. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:...I have shot some AR 500 with m193 and it penetrated where M855 didn't. I guess it's the velocity difference. There's nothing in a car that hard... I have some (iirc 3/8") AR500 plates that I've shot with m193 at a hundred yards. Cratered about like a 180-grain .308sp, but didn't come near to full penetration. Never shot 855 at them. Try it closer. I was at about 30 yards. Skip to 3:45. (not my video) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1K3wCRjcdMThere is a reason that the steel body armor rifle plates might be special threat tested to stop M855, but will be punctured by M193, or any of the light, fast bullets... Special threat because neither 5.56 nor .223 are part of the standard test for Level 3 or 4 plates. That reason being that the faster bullets penetrate better. In the store I work at the most damage done to an AR500 plate was a 30-06 AP bullet that was handloaded into a .300 Win mag at much higher velocity than it ever could have achieved in a 30-06. The second most was the cratering done by a .17 at around 4500 FPS. The light .223 rounds were third and fourth. More than the standard .300 win mag, .458, .308, and 12 gauge. On another site there was a test of hard plates. The steel plates were penetrated by the fast .223 while M855 was easily stopped. 243 shooting light FMJ bullets is really hard on steel targets too. It put pretty good pock marks in mine. |
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Posted: 10/13/2014 4:14:00 PM EDT
[#43]
Please read the "Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo" tacked at the top of the page. It specifically lists recommendations if barrier penetration is a concern.
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Posted: 10/14/2014 1:02:02 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We're not issued any ammo; we provide our own within given parameters. I currently carry 64-grain powerpointplus (now discontinued) in my carbine. Just looking to learn what are the better options for vehicle-barrier concerns. We're seeing a lot more drugs being trafficked near our area. Not something I'm losing sleep over - the 64-grain PowerPointPlus is a great load and I still have a fair amount of it - just looking for input from the hive mind on what might be 'better' to have a specific magazine or two of. I'd assume that a heavier bullet like maybe a 75-79 OTM, or a medium-heavy fmj like M855 might be arguably 'better' on vehicle penetration. If nothing else is suggested that sounds promising, I'll probably just load up a mag or two of 855 and call it good. I'm not particularly ammo finicky or an ammo snob; just looking for input. The M193 isn't a bad performer, and I'm more comfortable with it than a lot of people are; but I would assume (and could be completely wrong) that the heavier, steel-core M855 would be a better anti-vehicle round. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:I would suggest just using the ammo you are issued. We're not issued any ammo; we provide our own within given parameters. I currently carry 64-grain powerpointplus (now discontinued) in my carbine. Just looking to learn what are the better options for vehicle-barrier concerns. We're seeing a lot more drugs being trafficked near our area. Not something I'm losing sleep over - the 64-grain PowerPointPlus is a great load and I still have a fair amount of it - just looking for input from the hive mind on what might be 'better' to have a specific magazine or two of. I'd assume that a heavier bullet like maybe a 75-79 OTM, or a medium-heavy fmj like M855 might be arguably 'better' on vehicle penetration. If nothing else is suggested that sounds promising, I'll probably just load up a mag or two of 855 and call it good. I'm not particularly ammo finicky or an ammo snob; just looking for input. Quoted:M193. Speed kills. The M193 isn't a bad performer, and I'm more comfortable with it than a lot of people are; but I would assume (and could be completely wrong) that the heavier, steel-core M855 would be a better anti-vehicle round. Lake City M193 does more damage to steel plates and pits them deeper than M855 does if that tells you anything... I like XM193 twice as much for a defense ball round out of a 1/9 barrel twist M16 patterned rifles than XM855 in 1/7 and 1/9 twist... YMMV. |
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Posted: 10/14/2014 9:12:02 PM EDT
[#45]
I got lucky during the recent craziness and traded 1000rds of LC 62gr for 880 rounds of 64gr LE Gold Dot....
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Posted: 10/14/2014 9:16:00 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lake City M193 does more damage to steel plates and pits them deeper than M855 does if that tells you anything... I like XM193 twice as much for a defense ball round out of a 1/9 barrel twist M16 patterned rifles than XM855 in 1/7 and 1/9 twist... YMMV. Neither M193 nor M855 are good for barrier penetration. |
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Posted: 10/18/2014 6:46:54 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would vote for 62gr TBBC from Federal's LE line. They are the toughest of the bonded bullets and top of DocGKR list for LE duty loads. They are definitely tougher than GoldDots or Fusions and won't shed petals or pinch shut like the regular, non-50grBH TSX loads. Or the BH 50gr TSX as someone else mentioned. This and you have the testing by various entities and it's a LE intended loading |
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Posted: 10/18/2014 7:56:41 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I got lucky during the recent craziness and traded 1000rds of LC 62gr for 880 rounds of 64gr LE Gold Dot.... Full of win. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 2:36:48 AM EDT
[#49]
For the people recommending the Federal LE .223 Tactical 62 Grain Bonded Soft Point LE223T3....how would you compare it to the Winchester Ranger 64gr. RA556B ZQ3313 bonded soft point as far as the topic of this thread is concerned?
The federal when in stock at Ammunition Depot is 39.97/20 rounds vs about 1.00 per round for the Winchester. |
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Posted: 10/20/2014 2:51:06 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For the people recommending the Federal LE .223 Tactical 62 Grain Bonded Soft Point LE223T3....how would you compare it to the Winchester Ranger 64gr. RA556B ZQ3313 bonded soft point as far as the topic of this thread is concerned? The federal when in stock at Ammunition Depot is 39.97/20 rounds vs about 1.00 per round for the Winchester. Nearly if not as good. I think the Nosler 64gr Bonded which you speak of was Doc's #2 on the list. |
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