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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Carl Gustaf NATO 5.56X45/.223 62grn (Page 2 of 7)
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Mine has that code stamped on it. Quoted:
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Well ammo is dated 2009 (02-CG-09) on the website. I have not opened mine yet, but will soon as I have noticed a dent in the can when I took it out of the box. If mine is different date coded I will post. My CG shipped 6.19.14 and is Lot 01-CG-09 on plastic pkg and Can. Good ...? |
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Not to rain on anyones parade .... but....Eyegun , what is with all the pierced primers ?! Anyone else seeing that ? I saw it, but then at matches I pick up a lot of brass with black oil and stuff in the primer dent, so I'll assume that that's what it is. |
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My CG shipped 6.19.14 and is Lot 01-CG-09 on plastic pkg and Can. Good ...? Quoted:
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Well ammo is dated 2009 (02-CG-09) on the website. I have not opened mine yet, but will soon as I have noticed a dent in the can when I took it out of the box. If mine is different date coded I will post. My CG shipped 6.19.14 and is Lot 01-CG-09 on plastic pkg and Can. Good ...? Shot 30 rounds of Gustav today using 16" & 20" PSA CHF 1:7 barreled uppers, with IMI M193 and PMC X-TAC to compare in off hand functioning run. Glad I was outside: Carl Gustav ammo functioned as it should but Very smoky. That surprised me. Inside 50 yards so all I could do was shoot off hand but CGustav accuracy was close to but not better than the IMI M193. Better testing to follow. |
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Shot 30 rounds of Gustav today using 16" & 20" PSA CHF 1:7 barreled uppers, with IMI M193 and PMC X-TAC to compare in off hand functioning run. Glad I was outside: Carl Gustav ammo functioned as it should but Very smoky. That surprised me. Inside 50 yards so all I could do was shoot off hand but CGustav accuracy was close to but not better than the IMI M193. Better testing to follow. Quoted:
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Well ammo is dated 2009 (02-CG-09) on the website. I have not opened mine yet, but will soon as I have noticed a dent in the can when I took it out of the box. If mine is different date coded I will post. My CG shipped 6.19.14 and is Lot 01-CG-09 on plastic pkg and Can. Good ...? Shot 30 rounds of Gustav today using 16" & 20" PSA CHF 1:7 barreled uppers, with IMI M193 and PMC X-TAC to compare in off hand functioning run. Glad I was outside: Carl Gustav ammo functioned as it should but Very smoky. That surprised me. Inside 50 yards so all I could do was shoot off hand but CGustav accuracy was close to but not better than the IMI M193. Better testing to follow. Can you post a picture of your brass for comparison sake? |
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PLS shoot OUTSIDE, and look for smoky blast/not? and look for what smoke "curls" from your receiver/ej. port after rounds are fired.
And, SMELL. I am trying not to give away anything except you will indeed notice a few things if your Lot shoots like mine did. I always concentrate on the Target after calling my weapon but it was distracting to me, the shooting experience, from focusing on terminal performance such as accuracy, fliers, etc. And, how the Brass and primers look. You know what you are doing, I am just itching to see what others experience. BTW, thank you for taking the time to tear apart rounds and give us the skinny ! |
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I shot 30 rounds of it a couple weeks ago. Same POI as every other ammo out of the rifle used. Accuracy was about 1" at 50 yards (carbine and aimpoint) but I only fired 10 from rest.
I didn't notice any additional smoke, but I wasn't looking for it either. I did clean the rifle immediately afterwards though as I have an inherent distrust of "non-corrosive" berdan primed ammo. I had no pressure signs like one of the earlier posters, but my calibrated shoulder told me it was at least as hot as M855. |
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PLS shoot OUTSIDE, and look for smoky blast/not? and look for what smoke "curls" from your receiver/ej. port after rounds are fired. And, SMELL. I am trying not to give away anything except you will indeed notice a few things if your Lot shoots like mine did. I always concentrate on the Target after calling my weapon but it was distracting to me, the shooting experience, from focusing on terminal performance such as accuracy, fliers, etc. And, how the Brass and primers look. You know what you are doing, I am just itching to see what others experience. BTW, thank you for taking the time to tear apart rounds and give us the skinny ! Sent an EMAIL to AIM, and they said they are taking some CG out and shooting it to see ... |
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My ammo is dated to 2010. So this is the second generation ammo not the stuff from 2009 and prior that was causing so much of the health issues. Just an FYI ... Norway stopped use of this ammo in 2011, production of this specific ammo continued until then. The second gen came about after 2011. The problems were reported in 2009. |
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It says on this board's stickied "Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo" that when M855 fails to fragment it makes a wound profile similar to a .22LR. http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF01225042 I've treated several people that were shot with .22 LR ... the last guy was shot three times in the leg. None of the .22LR exited. Very small wounds not major damage. The last guy we had hit with a .223 in the leg made a big mess. I think that he lost two inches of bone and almost bled out. The only thing that had the same profile was the enterance hole. |
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I've treated several people that were shot with .22 LR ... the last guy was shot three times in the leg. None of the .22LR exited. Very small wounds not major damage. The last guy we had hit with a .223 in the leg made a big mess. I think that he lost two inches of bone and almost bled out. The only thing that had the same profile was the enterance hole. Quoted:
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It says on this board's stickied "Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo" that when M855 fails to fragment it makes a wound profile similar to a .22LR. http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF01225042 I've treated several people that were shot with .22 LR ... the last guy was shot three times in the leg. None of the .22LR exited. Very small wounds not major damage. The last guy we had hit with a .223 in the leg made a big mess. I think that he lost two inches of bone and almost bled out. The only thing that had the same profile was the enterance hole. Speed kills, tissue displacement in milliseconds. Push something fast enough it doesn't have to fragment, you wouldn't want to be hit with a 220 Swift! Of course in a SHTF/survivalist/no hospital care scenario a .22lr strike to a major part is a killer too, just takes longer. |
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Ok, I made it to the range today. 79deg. mild wind.
Rifle details... 6.5-20x50mm scoped 16" V7 Middie 1n7 Wylde chambered, free floated barrel, BCM GF Comp , BCM full auto BCG , H2 Buffer, CTR stock. Geissele S3G trigger. This is some hot ammo. I could tell the difference immediately. The BCG was moving much faster than it did with any of the other ammo. Hopefully , next week my Chrono will arrive. Frankly the ammo was also louder, I know that seems odd but it really did sound louder. As for accuracy testing .... I prefer 10 round groups, here are the results for 100 yards. From best to worst... and FWIW I only do 1/4 measurements... since I can only hold so still ! Lol ! ( Added flier info since these are 10rd groups. ) AE Tipped Varmint 50gr BT......... 1 1/4" ( I use this as my baseline standard, it consistently performs well in every rifle of mine ) AMA ( Danish ) 62gr M855.......... 1 3/4" ( 1 flier added 1/4" ) GGG ( Lithuania ) 62gr M855...... 2" ( 2 fliers added 1/2" ) Fed. XM193 55gr......................... 2 1/2" Carl Gustav 62gr NM229............. 3 " ( 2 fliers added 3/4" to the group ) Frankly, the CG accuracy was about what I expected... I will try it in some other rifles after the chrono arrives. No Smokiness, no pierced primers..... BUT again this is some high pressure ammo ! My primers look as flat as the ones in Eyeguns photo. DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT FIRING THIS IN A .223 Chamber !!!! I am curious if this bullet penetrates more then the current XM 855 / SS109 bullet , from everything I have read it does. Not a lot more, just 20% more..... maybe some steel testing is needed. I will also note that there will certainly be more wear and tear on your rifle with this ammo.. |
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Shot 20 rounds of this stuff today. Out of my carbine, it shot about 1.5" at 50 yards shooting from a table rapid fire. About 2 rounds per second. Optic was an aimpoint micro. I'm sure it would be better with a proper rest, rate of fire, and optic but that's not the point of this rifle and ammo.
I did notice a considerable amount of smoke come from it. I've never seen smoke come out of the bottom of a magazine before until today. Worse still was when I went to dry cycle the rifle after shooting the ammo. The bolt was very sticky, to a point where I almost had to mortar it to get the BCG to open. I popped open the receiver and noticed the bolt carrier was moving normally, but the bolt seemed stuck in battery. I had one failure to fire today. Click and no boom. I pulled the round [with considerable effort due to bolt sticking in battery] and the primer had a lightish strike on it. Should have still gone off though. This is the first time it has happened on this rifle. Firing pin has about 10000 rounds on it, including some berdan primed Tula. Barrel, bolt, gas system, etc. are from a KAC SR-15e3. I noticed this ammo was slightly hotter than M855, but not hugely so. I was paying close attention to felt recoil, otherwise I would not have noticed. I was still able to rapid fire successfully with it. I brought my SPR as well, but decided not to shoot it based on the issues stated earlier with this ammo. |
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I just cleaned the rifle and found out why I had the issues I just had. I found 3 chunks of what could only be blown primers INSIDE my bolt. The firing pin was jamming up against them, causing the binding and light strikes.
This is a full on 5.56 chamber and this ammo is simply too hot for it. I will be giving AIM a call in the morning. |
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I just cleaned the rifle and found out why I had the issues I just had. I found 3 chunks of what could only be blown primers INSIDE my bolt. The firing pin was jamming up against them, causing the binding and light strikes. This is a full on 5.56 chamber and this ammo is simply too hot for it. I will be giving AIM a call in the morning. I sent a note of concern on this ammo to AIM and received a reply from Bryan saying he would take some out to shoot and test. I copied this link explained there are serious quality and safety concerns. Have NOT heard back; these posts are scary and I sunk $375 into this ammo that AIM needs to do something about it for the Customers with bad experiences like you have, I have. SMOKY, NOXIOUS. I WILL FOLLOWUP AS WELL. MARK |
| You know, thinking about it a little more, the firing pin could have just as easily jammed in the forward position instead of the rearward like it did. If that had happened, the likelihood of a slam fire increases by a huge amount. I consider myself lucky that didn't happen. I will not be shooting this ammo anymore, and am unlikely to buy berdan primed ammo ever again. |
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You know, thinking about it a little more, the firing pin could have just as easily jammed in the forward position instead of the rearward like it did. If that had happened, the likelihood of a slam fire increases by a huge amount. I consider myself lucky that didn't happen. I will not be shooting this ammo anymore, and am unlikely to buy berdan primed ammo ever again. You stated you have TEN THOUSAND rounds on your firing pin......maybe time to bin it for a new one. Have you checked the protrusion or the primer pin hole in the bolt face to see if over time it has become over-size. Your comment on Berdan primers is just silly........ |
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You stated you have TEN THOUSAND rounds on your firing pin......maybe time to bin it for a new one. Have you checked the protrusion or the primer pin hole in the bolt face to see if over time it has become over-size. Your comment on Berdan primers is just silly........ Quoted:
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You know, thinking about it a little more, the firing pin could have just as easily jammed in the forward position instead of the rearward like it did. If that had happened, the likelihood of a slam fire increases by a huge amount. I consider myself lucky that didn't happen. I will not be shooting this ammo anymore, and am unlikely to buy berdan primed ammo ever again. You stated you have TEN THOUSAND rounds on your firing pin......maybe time to bin it for a new one. Have you checked the protrusion or the primer pin hole in the bolt face to see if over time it has become over-size. Your comment on Berdan primers is just silly........ Went home at lunch and went through the rifle again. Didn't find any additional chunks inside the bolt. I should have taken a picture of them, but forgot. They are sitting at home so I will take one when I get home. Firing pin and bolt looked fine. I've replaced the ejector and extractor springs in this bolt, but 10 thousand should be nothing for the bolt itself. I threw out most of the brass at the range into the brass buckets, but some found it's way into my brass bag. Most looked ok, however I found one with some sort of odd primer strike. Instead of a dimple inwards like normal, it's brass pushing OUT, so basically the other way around. I have this case at home and will get a picture of it as well. I haven't noticed any discomfort or nausea when shooting this. Outside temp when shooting was about 105, which could explain some of the higher pressures. |
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Went home at lunch and went through the rifle again. Didn't find any additional chunks inside the bolt. I should have taken a picture of them, but forgot. They are sitting at home so I will take one when I get home. Firing pin and bolt looked fine. I've replaced the ejector and extractor springs in this bolt, but 10 thousand should be nothing for the bolt itself. I threw out most of the brass at the range into the brass buckets, but some found it's way into my brass bag. Most looked ok, however I found one with some sort of odd primer strike. Instead of a dimple inwards like normal, it's brass pushing OUT, so basically the other way around. I have this case at home and will get a picture of it as well. I haven't noticed any discomfort or nausea when shooting this. Outside temp when shooting was about 105, which could explain some of the higher pressures. Quoted:
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You know, thinking about it a little more, the firing pin could have just as easily jammed in the forward position instead of the rearward like it did. If that had happened, the likelihood of a slam fire increases by a huge amount. I consider myself lucky that didn't happen. I will not be shooting this ammo anymore, and am unlikely to buy berdan primed ammo ever again. You stated you have TEN THOUSAND rounds on your firing pin......maybe time to bin it for a new one. Have you checked the protrusion or the primer pin hole in the bolt face to see if over time it has become over-size. Your comment on Berdan primers is just silly........ Went home at lunch and went through the rifle again. Didn't find any additional chunks inside the bolt. I should have taken a picture of them, but forgot. They are sitting at home so I will take one when I get home. Firing pin and bolt looked fine. I've replaced the ejector and extractor springs in this bolt, but 10 thousand should be nothing for the bolt itself. I threw out most of the brass at the range into the brass buckets, but some found it's way into my brass bag. Most looked ok, however I found one with some sort of odd primer strike. Instead of a dimple inwards like normal, it's brass pushing OUT, so basically the other way around. I have this case at home and will get a picture of it as well. I haven't noticed any discomfort or nausea when shooting this. Outside temp when shooting was about 105, which could explain some of the higher pressures. If it has a carbine length gas system 10,000 rounds is likely more than you think, especially if you normally fire at a very fast rate as indicated in your previous post. IIRC the US Mil replaces carbine bolts at around the 7500 round mark. Can they last longer, sure. You might not have another problem for quite a while. But just be aware that 10,000 rounds on a carbine bolt is up there. Good to see someone out there having fun though! |
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If it has a carbine length gas system 10,000 rounds is likely more than you think, especially if you normally fire at a very fast rate as indicated in your previous post. IIRC the US Mil replaces carbine bolts at around the 7500 round mark. Can they last longer, sure. You might not have another problem for quite a while. But just be aware that 10,000 rounds on a carbine bolt is up there. Good to see someone out there having fun though! You're absolutely right about the carbine system and USGI bolt. However this is a KAC SR-15e3 bolt and intermediate gas system. 
Although it would probably not be a bad idea to replace the firing pin. I work in avaition so I try to replace items before they break. |
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You're absolutely right about the carbine system and USGI bolt. However this is a KAC SR-15e3 bolt and intermediate gas system.
Although it would probably not be a bad idea to replace the firing pin. I work in avaition so I try to replace items before they break. Quoted:
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If it has a carbine length gas system 10,000 rounds is likely more than you think, especially if you normally fire at a very fast rate as indicated in your previous post. IIRC the US Mil replaces carbine bolts at around the 7500 round mark. Can they last longer, sure. You might not have another problem for quite a while. But just be aware that 10,000 rounds on a carbine bolt is up there. Good to see someone out there having fun though! You're absolutely right about the carbine system and USGI bolt. However this is a KAC SR-15e3 bolt and intermediate gas system.
Although it would probably not be a bad idea to replace the firing pin. I work in avaition so I try to replace items before they break. Sounds like a nice system, Mid Length gas is definitely the way to go! |
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Has anyone had a positive experience with this ammo? I shot 60 rounds, out of my new 20inch. Got about 2 inch groups at 50 yards. The ammo did seem to be louder than the PMC 62gr and Wolf 55 grain that I also shot. I will go back to range in about 2 weeks and will fire some more and pick up the brass and examine it. |
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I was finally able to go shooting today and test out the Swedish ammo. Fired about 200 rounds of the Swedish ammo; half through a H&K 93 and half with a Sig Sauer 556. Every round went bang and I did not notice great amounts of smoke coming out of the rifles. My primers looked exactly like the picture posted by eyegun on page 3; no pierced or missing primers. The ejected brass cases had an oil like film on them making them look dirty. I also shot Austrian m855 ammo to make a comparison between the two. I did not notice a great difference between the two in recoil or muzzle blast; I should have included some commercial ammo also. The rifles were dirtier than I expected with only 300 rounds total between them.
I don't know if the Swedish ammo is too over pressured and will cause premature wear on my firearms. The rim of the case had ejector smear like the photo posted by Nevermiss556 on page 3. I purchased a lot of this ammo in preparation for Obama's final "finger in the ass" to gun owners when he leaves office. I might shoot this ammo only in my H&K 93; it is an extremely rugged rifle and it destroys brass. I did call AIM Surplus about this ammo. They were very polite and interested in what I had to say. They asked me to e-mail a photo of the brass case to them so they can take a look at it. Josh (from customer service) said not many people have called them to complain and they have sold a lot of this ammo. He was aware of some criticism of this ammo on AR-15.com. |
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i shot 40 rounds of this today out of my AUG-A1 (1/9, 20" barrel) they were more smokey that the XM193 i was also shooting but the cycling felt smoother for some reason. out of the 40 rounds, 5 had pierced primers but there was no signs of abnormal wear on the bolt face, firing pin or firing pin opening. no pieces of primer found anywhere like the other person had. using the standard 1.5x AUG donut of death sight, 10 shot groups at 100 yds averaged about 2" with the smallest being 1.5" |
Someone looked at the weight, said "These are 62 grain, let's load them to the same velocity as M855." They missed a small point, that these things are long, way long. On a subjective note, you can feel something isn't typical in the cycling of the rifle. noticeably faster cycling than anything else. 16" BCM mid barrel. H2, blue sprinco. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Carl Gustaf NATO 5.56X45/.223 62grn (Page 2 of 7)
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