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Posted: 4/13/2014 9:22:42 PM EDT
[#1]
Have you tried with different mags and tried without the magpul lever on your Bolt catch?
Chad |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 9:46:22 PM EDT
[#2]
Stop shooting weak ammo.
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Posted: 4/13/2014 9:55:13 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Stop shooting weak ammo. Do you think it would happen with a carbine gassed barrel, and carbine buffer? I only ask because I have shot piles of it through rifles set up this way. I just recently went through the last of this crap that I had left over, and experienced the first short strokes with it in a midlength with a Sprinco blue, and an H2. Just wouldn't pick up the next round. I am now done with the stuff, it is all gone I think. There may be a few left somewhere 
I never had any short stroke issues with the carbines, though. I could have been lucky, but I would at least look at a different mag, and the BAD lever. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 1:47:37 AM EDT
[#4]
The wolf steel case shoots great throught both my carbine and midlength rifles. My DD will put them sub 1" at 100 yrds.
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Posted: 4/14/2014 3:28:36 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you think it would happen with a carbine gassed barrel, and carbine buffer? I only ask because I have shot piles of it through rifles set up this way. I just recently went through the last of this crap that I had left over, and experienced the first short strokes with it in a midlength with a Sprinco blue, and an H2. Just wouldn't pick up the next round. I am now done with the stuff, it is all gone I think. There may be a few left somewhere
I never had any short stroke issues with the carbines, though. I could have been lucky, but I would at least look at a different mag, and the BAD lever. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Stop shooting weak ammo. Do you think it would happen with a carbine gassed barrel, and carbine buffer? I only ask because I have shot piles of it through rifles set up this way. I just recently went through the last of this crap that I had left over, and experienced the first short strokes with it in a midlength with a Sprinco blue, and an H2. Just wouldn't pick up the next round. I am now done with the stuff, it is all gone I think. There may be a few left somewhere
I never had any short stroke issues with the carbines, though. I could have been lucky, but I would at least look at a different mag, and the BAD lever. It should run but the OP didn't give us much info to go on. He could be running a H3 buffer for all we know, though my guess would be carbine. It might be the BAD lever which I would discard either way. Could be a bunch of things but a picture of the rifle and the fact that it's carbine is all we got. Simple solution: shoot 5.56 pressure ammo. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 4:09:54 AM EDT
[#6]
It is not a good idea to shoot steel case ammo in an AR rifle. Ammo cases are sized to easily slide into and out of the chamber. When the round is fired the case expands and in doing so seals the chamber against blow by. Brass is soft so the expansion and sealing action is excellent. Steel is harder so the expansion of the case is less. This causes some blow by of powder and soot and makes for a chamber that must be cleaned more often, not to debate the friction of a harder metal on chamber wear. The other problem with steel case ammo is that the sources for it are often from third world countries where quality control is inferior. There are those here who disagree but I say spend the extra buck and shoot good American made quality brass case ammunition
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Posted: 4/14/2014 4:16:55 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The wolf steel case shoots great throught both my carbine and midlength rifles. My DD will put them sub 1" at 100 yrds. Interesting... |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 5:52:16 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Bought a box of 500 rounds of wolf at the KCR machine gun shoot last night and shot some of it today. Cycles enough to pick up the next round but not enough to catch the bolt on the last round. I was wondering if anyone else was having similar problems and/or had any tips or advice for shooting steel. I actually shot about 500 rounds of Tula and they cycled just fine.http://i1351.photobucket.com/albums/p783/hyde097/photo3_zpsa4d6f763.jpgIf it helps, I'm running a carbine length gas system and i don't know the buffer weight. You need to find out more about your buffer weight for us to help you. Personally, if it fires good quality brass cased ammo reliably I wouldn't worry about it. And if your shooting junk steel case for practice then I wouldn't worry about the last round not locking back the bolt, it's just practice anyway... |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 6:00:11 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The wolf steel case shoots great throught both my carbine and midlength rifles. My DD will put them sub 1" at 100 yrds. Interesting... That's one way to describe it. 
How about you shoot some groups in the "One MOA All Day Long" thread and post them. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 6:06:13 AM EDT
[#10]
My carbine cycles steel cased ammo without issue. Not sure why you are having issues maybe a bad batch of ammo? What's the spec on your AR? |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 6:22:17 AM EDT
[#11]
I didn't shoot any in my middie when I had it. In my carbine I haven't had any trouble with the Tula.
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Posted: 4/14/2014 6:34:22 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's one way to describe it.
How about you shoot some groups in the "One MOA All Day Long" thread and post them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The wolf steel case shoots great throught both my carbine and midlength rifles. My DD will put them sub 1" at 100 yrds. Interesting... That's one way to describe it.
How about you shoot some groups in the "One MOA All Day Long" thread and post them. I think he's using a one shot group to achieve that. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 6:55:10 AM EDT
[#13]
I won't keep an AR that doesn't cycle wolf/Tula/etc. In my opinion it's silly to have a gun to use for protection that is ammo finicky.
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Posted: 4/14/2014 7:03:01 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I won't keep an AR that doesn't cycle wolf/Tula/etc. In my opinion it's silly to have a gun to use for protection that is ammo finicky. My ar has been through over 10000 rounds of tula it shoots good imo Never understood brass only crowd |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 7:06:04 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I won't keep an AR that doesn't cycle wolf/Tula/etc. In my opinion it's silly to have a gun to use for protection that is ammo finicky. That's a little like saying I wouldn't keep a diesel engine that won;t run on mineral spirits.
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Posted: 4/14/2014 7:06:27 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The wolf steel case shoots great throught both my carbine and midlength rifles. My DD will put them sub 1" at 100 yrds. LOL....OK OP, try a standard buffer and maybe another mag. Was this happening on different mags? |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 7:09:46 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's one way to describe it.
How about you shoot some groups in the "One MOA All Day Long" thread and post them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The wolf steel case shoots great throught both my carbine and midlength rifles. My DD will put them sub 1" at 100 yrds. Interesting... That's one way to describe it.
How about you shoot some groups in the "One MOA All Day Long" thread and post them. You were actually who I thought of when I read that post. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 7:10:11 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's one way to describe it.
How about you shoot some groups in the "One MOA All Day Long" thread and post them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The wolf steel case shoots great throught both my carbine and midlength rifles. My DD will put them sub 1" at 100 yrds. Interesting... That's one way to describe it.
How about you shoot some groups in the "One MOA All Day Long" thread and post them. I'd like to see that as well. I just some some Wolf through my 20" HBAR yesterday on the "One MOA All Day Long" targets and my groups were more around 3-4". But that was with irons at 50 yards.
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Posted: 4/14/2014 7:11:44 AM EDT
[#19]
Tula is the only ammo that I avoid. I shoot a ton of steel cased stuff - been through probably a couple thousand rounds in total by now and it works just fine. Tula is the only steel cased brand that has consistently given me issues in a variety of weapons.
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Posted: 4/14/2014 7:14:03 AM EDT
[#20]
OP, how old is the rifle?
I have a Delton 20" upper that short stroked on Tulla (a littel under power but not too bad) once the rifle got about 3000 rounds of everything else, it workes fine. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 7:21:18 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd like to see that as well. I just some some Wolf through my 20" HBAR yesterday on the "One MOA All Day Long" targets and my groups were more around 3-4". But that was with irons at 50 yards.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The wolf steel case shoots great throught both my carbine and midlength rifles. My DD will put them sub 1" at 100 yrds. Interesting... That's one way to describe it.
How about you shoot some groups in the "One MOA All Day Long" thread and post them. I'd like to see that as well. I just some some Wolf through my 20" HBAR yesterday on the "One MOA All Day Long" targets and my groups were more around 3-4". But that was with irons at 50 yards.
And that's some fair shooting, as Wolf steel case is only capable of about that level of accuracy. Military ball is not capable of 1 MOA, as it was not designed to be that accurate. More here: 5.56 Military Ball Accuracy |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 7:21:41 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's a little like saying I wouldn't keep a diesel engine that won;t run on mineral spirits. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I won't keep an AR that doesn't cycle wolf/Tula/etc. In my opinion it's silly to have a gun to use for protection that is ammo finicky. That's a little like saying I wouldn't keep a diesel engine that won;t run on mineral spirits. No it isn't. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 8:11:12 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It should run but the OP didn't give us much info to go on. He could be running a H3 buffer for all we know, though my guess would be carbine. It might be the BAD lever which I would discard either way. Could be a bunch of things but a picture of the rifle and the fact that it's carbine is all we got. Simple solution: shoot 5.56 pressure ammo. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Stop shooting weak ammo. Do you think it would happen with a carbine gassed barrel, and carbine buffer? I only ask because I have shot piles of it through rifles set up this way. I just recently went through the last of this crap that I had left over, and experienced the first short strokes with it in a midlength with a Sprinco blue, and an H2. Just wouldn't pick up the next round. I am now done with the stuff, it is all gone I think. There may be a few left somewhere
I never had any short stroke issues with the carbines, though. I could have been lucky, but I would at least look at a different mag, and the BAD lever. It should run but the OP didn't give us much info to go on. He could be running a H3 buffer for all we know, though my guess would be carbine. It might be the BAD lever which I would discard either way. Could be a bunch of things but a picture of the rifle and the fact that it's carbine is all we got. Simple solution: shoot 5.56 pressure ammo. Agreed, I made the assumption that he was likely shooting with a carbine buffer. The not locking back on the last round leads me to believe it is something other than the weak steel ammo. I think he would have had an issue not stripping a round on a short stroke, prior to emptying the mag and not locking back. Just an opinion My caveat is that I am not advocating the use of the shit ammo; although I have burned through piles of the stuff
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Posted: 4/14/2014 8:27:46 AM EDT
[#24]
I have always had this outlook when it comes to shooting steel-case ammo in an AR, the military does not use it, nor will I. There are some manufacturers that will even warn you about shooting steel-case ammo in their ARs. I can see the logic in plinking with cheap ammo, but I would prefer to use cheap brass-case ammo.
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Posted: 4/14/2014 8:35:54 AM EDT
[#25]
Tula runs fine in my 16" RRA middy with H2 buffer and springco blue spring. It also runs fine in my BCM 14.5" middy with carbine buffer and mil spec spring.
I've heard of people having issues with the bolt not locking back when using a BAD lever. ETA: It could be a bad batch of ammo. I had a friend who picked up some wolf 7.62x39 that wouldn't cycle his AK it was so weak. Can you some try some of your wolf in a different rifle? |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 8:46:17 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have always had this outlook when it comes to shooting steel-case ammo in an AR, the military does not use it, nor will I. There are some manufacturers that will even warn you about shooting steel-case ammo in their ARs. I can see the logic in plinking with cheap ammo, but I would prefer to use cheap brass-case ammo. That's the thing, there isn't any cheap brass cased ammo. 
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Posted: 4/14/2014 8:56:46 AM EDT
[#27]
Wolf Gold: decent price, good quality, and from what I've read those who have run it over a chrono say it is as fast full power XM 193.
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Posted: 4/14/2014 10:30:56 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It should run but the OP didn't give us much info to go on. He could be running a H3 buffer for all we know, though my guess would be carbine. It might be the BAD lever which I would discard either way. Could be a bunch of things but a picture of the rifle and the fact that it's carbine is all we got. Simple solution: shoot 5.56 pressure ammo. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Stop shooting weak ammo. Do you think it would happen with a carbine gassed barrel, and carbine buffer? I only ask because I have shot piles of it through rifles set up this way. I just recently went through the last of this crap that I had left over, and experienced the first short strokes with it in a midlength with a Sprinco blue, and an H2. Just wouldn't pick up the next round. I am now done with the stuff, it is all gone I think. There may be a few left somewhere I never had any short stroke issues with the carbines, though. I could have been lucky, but I would at least look at a different mag, and the BAD lever. It should run but the OP didn't give us much info to go on. He could be running a H3 buffer for all we know, though my guess would be carbine. It might be the BAD lever which I would discard either way. Could be a bunch of things but a picture of the rifle and the fact that it's carbine is all we got. Simple solution: shoot 5.56 pressure ammo. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 10:34:36 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My carbine cycles steel cased ammo without issue. Not sure why you are having issues maybe a bad batch of ammo? What's the spec on your AR? |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 1:31:44 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have always had this outlook when it comes to shooting steel-case ammo in an AR, the military does not use it, nor will I. There are some manufacturers that will even warn you about shooting steel-case ammo in their ARs. I can see the logic in plinking with cheap ammo, but I would prefer to use cheap brass-case ammo. The military uses steel cases in some 20mm and much of the 30mm ammunition. For small arms, they use standards that have been in existence for a very long time, not because the cases must be brass, but because the people who let the contracts don't have to do any thinking. In other words, they use brass because "we've always done it that way." As an example of how habitual these specs are, even revolver ammunition gets primers crimped, and the crimp is there to keep primers from backing out and stopping automatic rifles... So to say "if the military doesn't do it, I won't" isn't a great rationale. The DoD still has specs for floor wax, cigarette ash trays and toilet paper; will you only use MIL-SPEC floor wax or TP? IF there were a valid reason for the spec, such as reliability, then that's one thing. It ain't that. It's all about not having to have contracting specialists try to figure out ammunition details. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 1:35:28 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is not a good idea to shoot steel case ammo in an AR rifle. Ammo cases are sized to easily slide into and out of the chamber. When the round is fired the case expands and in doing so seals the chamber against blow by. Brass is soft so the expansion and sealing action is excellent. Steel is harder so the expansion of the case is less. This causes some blow by of powder and soot and makes for a chamber that must be cleaned more often, not to debate the friction of a harder metal on chamber wear. The other problem with steel case ammo is that the sources for it are often from third world countries where quality control is inferior. There are those here who disagree but I say spend the extra buck and shoot good American made quality brass case ammunition the cost offset of me shooting steel buys me 2-3 barrels a year. Unless I'm trying to shoot for groups or at greater distances than 300 yards - I shoot steel. Shooting steelcase ammo in an AR is not a problem what so ever. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 2:36:12 PM EDT
[#32]
I do in fact have a carbine buffer. Are there any lighter options and will those fix my issue? Or would I need a lighter buffer spring?
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Posted: 4/14/2014 2:41:51 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I do in fact have a carbine buffer. Are there any lighter options and will those fix my issue? Or would I need a lighter buffer spring? I would pull the bad lever. The extra weight (though not much) could cause the problem. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 2:44:12 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's the thing, there isn't any cheap brass cased ammo. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have always had this outlook when it comes to shooting steel-case ammo in an AR, the military does not use it, nor will I. There are some manufacturers that will even warn you about shooting steel-case ammo in their ARs. I can see the logic in plinking with cheap ammo, but I would prefer to use cheap brass-case ammo. That's the thing, there isn't any cheap brass cased ammo. Wolf gold is what you're looking for senor. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 2:47:16 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would pull the bad lever. The extra weight (though not much) could cause the problem. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I do in fact have a carbine buffer. Are there any lighter options and will those fix my issue? Or would I need a lighter buffer spring? I would pull the bad lever. The extra weight (though not much) could cause the problem. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 4:28:32 PM EDT
[#36]
I'm guessing you got a bad batch, but have also heard of the bad lever causing issues.
Completely off topic but is that a hammer with a bottle opener attached to the handle? If so I want one!
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Posted: 4/14/2014 5:16:28 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm guessing you got a bad batch, but have also heard of the bad lever causing issues. Completely off topic but is that a hammer with a bottle opener attached to the handle? If so I want one! http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_4/643248_Iron_Sights_Only_Build.html
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Posted: 4/14/2014 5:56:19 PM EDT
[#38]
Just ran Wolf and Silver Bear thru my virgin SBR
H2 buffer no issues. Also Hornady 75 gr STEEL match Only issue I had was with Freedom Blaster brass FTF due to edge on case mouth probably not a great crimp Both my rifles eat steel like candy And have yet to screw up when I chase steel with brass Send me your steel for proper disposal |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 5:56:52 PM EDT
[#39]
I love shooting steel case ammo because it's cheap and all my rifles eat it all up. I'm running a bcm 14.5 carbine with a st-t2 buffer and a spikes 11.5 carbine with a st-t2 buffer
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Posted: 4/14/2014 6:02:30 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Send me your steel for proper disposal |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 6:03:55 PM EDT
[#41]
Wolf Gold is good cheap brass ammo for paper punching if youre hellbent on not shooting wolf steel cased ammo or the range wont allow you to shoot steel case. (I have heard stories)
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Posted: 4/14/2014 6:07:52 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What do you do with it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Send me your steel for proper disposal I can't speak for his disposal methods, but I load it up and shoot it. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 6:22:41 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wolf Gold is good cheap brass ammo for paper punching if youre hellbent on not shooting wolf steel cased ammo or the range wont allow you to shoot steel case. (I have heard stories) |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 6:45:20 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well I just bought 500 rounds of the stuff. And, being a college kid, it's about all i can really afford. plus wolf gold goes for about $350 before shipping and the steel stuff goes for at the max I've seen lately $300. It costs that extra $50 to fill up my car entirely. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Wolf Gold is good cheap brass ammo for paper punching if youre hellbent on not shooting wolf steel cased ammo or the range wont allow you to shoot steel case. (I have heard stories) I myself bought 500 rounds of Wolf gold for $189 shipped I feel that its great range ammo and good quality for the price and being in college myself I completely understand on wanting to be in the ar community and have good ammo while not spending your whole wallet on the stuff. I would keep a lookout on for wolf gold ammo cause it will usually go on sale on different sites. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 6:55:28 PM EDT
[#45]
$135.99 for 500rds of Wolf WPA 2 weeks ago. $175 for 500rds of Federal XM193. I've shot cases of steel ammo over the yrs. I've yet to ever EVER have a malfunction using it. My ARs eat it up.
All my SHTF stash is brass fodder. But I'll shoot the steel stuff all day long for practice. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 7:02:49 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: $135.99 for 500rds of Wolf WPA 2 weeks ago. $175 for 500rds of Federal XM193. I've shot cases of steel ammo over the yrs. I've yet to ever EVER have a malfunction using it. My ARs eat it up. All my SHTF stash is brass fodder. But I'll shoot the steel stuff all day long for practice. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 7:06:25 PM EDT
[#47]
I really like using steel for dynamic practice as you will not recover about half of the cases if using brass, with steel it doesn't matter and the slightly diminished accuracy is of no consequence when shooting on the move and doing drills on silhouettes/paper plates, plus the lower cost allows for more practice. I have never had any issues with my rifles while using it.
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Posted: 4/14/2014 7:15:04 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The wolf steel case shoots great throught both my carbine and midlength rifles. My DD will put them sub 1" at 100 yrds. Edit I have eaten crow before, saying something similar to this off the cuff, when I was exagerrating. It came across serious. I owned it.
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Posted: 4/14/2014 7:33:59 PM EDT
[#49]
I've put a few thousand rounds of "herters" steel cased Cabellas house brand down range with minimal difficulty. I had a few bobbles, FTE 1x and maybe a few FTF Honestly don't rememeber but can't haver been more than 2-3, and that was a near new rifle. It's not what I'd keep loaded for defense or anything, but I'll shoot the snot out of it at the range. An added benefit is I don't have to police brass. I'm not reloading yet so collecting is just a PIA and makes me feel neurotic.
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Posted: 4/14/2014 9:59:02 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
http://i1351.photobucket.com/albums/p783/hyde097/photo3_zpsa4d6f763.jpgIf it helps, I'm running a carbine length gas system and i don't know the buffer weight. I see the toe of a shoe reflected in the oven glass door. Cleverly well played sir. Extra bonus point. |
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