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Posted: 11/13/2013 12:11:51 PM EDT
So I saw this for sale the other day at buygunsandammo.com checked around and couldn't find anything about it anywhere, but figured for the $370.00 shipped for 1000 rounds I would give it a try. The ammo is 62 grain ss109 penetrators and is brass cased, boxer primed and red lacquer sealed. It got here today and got to me like this. Which is to be expected of Romanian made ammo.
each box packed with 20 rounds which is also standard 
So thought I would check and compare this to my LC 62 gr 5.56 as least visually until my shoulder surgery heals enough to shoot it. 
One crimped one Lacquer sealed for a reloader sometimes the lacquer can be easier to deal with. but from past experiences it is often accompanied by loose primer pockets. I do have to note they come to me a lot cleaner than any bulk order of LC ever has 
When put up on the calipers the Sadu is consistently measuring a little shorter in OAL than the LC with my average out of ten on LC being 2.253 and the average on Sadu being 2.245. Same thing goes for the weight. The Sadu is measuring up a little heavier on my hornady scale than the LC. Not sure if its the lacquer, more powder, or thicker brass. This will have to wait until I can shoot it and measure the web and other parts. Maybe do a few cuts to measure the case walls. Somehow i'm going to have to account for an extra 5 grains. Sadu average 190.3 
LC Average 185.1 
The cases look to be annealed which is always appreciated 
and as always stack up nicely in an ammo can until I can get a range report on them 
I know cool story bro, but give a guy a break. I just had shoulder surgery and cant do much of anything else. |
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Posted: 11/13/2013 12:37:12 PM EDT
[#1]
Another guy on here picked up 1500 rounds of this stuff if I remember correctly. He shot a little of it but not enough to actually do a good test of the ammo, I don't fault him for it tho, everyone is busy and its always appreciated whatever information can be given, no matter how little. Hope you heal up soon so you can get back to the fun. Hope to see a range report on this stuff. I was considering buying some of it as well.
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Posted: 11/18/2013 2:29:28 AM EDT
[#2]
I PICKED UP 1000 ROUNDS OF IT LAST NIGHT, I WILL REPORT MY FINDINGS AFTER I SHOOT SOME OF IT.
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Posted: 11/18/2013 8:21:22 AM EDT
[#3]
Every time I check that site, the price inches up. First it was 32cpr, then 36cpr, now it's 38cpr (alll before shipping). WTF?
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Posted: 11/18/2013 11:06:32 AM EDT
[#4]
shipping is like 62 bucks for 1500 when I had it in my cart. 36cpr to 42cpr adds up when you buy at these quantities.
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Posted: 11/18/2013 1:16:10 PM EDT
[#5]
Shipping does seem to be expensive compared to some other companies (PSA was $20 for 1,000 bulk Federal), but if the round is decent, it's still worth it.
Out of curiosity, I thought the SS109 designation was specifically for the bullet itself, not for the NATO loading specs (m855), and that all 5.56 NATO rounds were supposed to have the cross on the headstamp. So, I guess I'm asking if these are truly NATO specs without the cross. I'm sure it doesn't matter, but does anyone care to clarify? |
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Posted: 11/18/2013 1:48:42 PM EDT
[#6]
I'm surprised to hear that your shipping is so much. Mine shipped for $23.00 from where they are based to Maryland. It says they shipped from Atlanta and ship weight was 30lbs, so maybe going over 45lbs is what bumps it up, or they used FedEx, so maybe FedEx is charging a lot more than the UPS rate that most are using. Anyone who uses it feel free to post results here. If we can talk to them about their shipping (they have an account here) and can get good results it is always nice to have a new source for ammo. For the question about it being NATO spec, it is possible to match the specs and not have the cross. The specs are publicly listed when they bid for ammo, but only companies actually producing for NATO and meeting further inspections can put the NATO cross on them. So these could be to spec but not marked.
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Posted: 11/19/2013 3:58:13 AM EDT
[#7]
I tried it about 2 weeks ago when it was $360 per 1k. So I added the 1500rnd pack to my cart and saw that shipping to OH was 62 bucks. At that point, while still not a bad deal considering what LC is going for .40+ right now, I wanted to hold off until we got more range reports on the stuff before I ordered a case.
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Posted: 11/19/2013 9:18:13 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Another guy on here picked up 1500 rounds of this stuff if I remember correctly. He shot a little of it but not enough to actually do a good test of the ammo, I don't fault him for it tho, everyone is busy and its always appreciated whatever information can be given, no matter how little. Hope you heal up soon so you can get back to the fun. Hope to see a range report on this stuff. I was considering buying some of it as well. If that's me you're referencing, it was only 1K. I ended up shooting some more later in that weekend. Other than the first round not extracting (which is a known problem in that rifle, and still being worked on), it's been great. No problems in a different rifle I used. Of the 130 rounds I've fired, that was the only problem, which arguable was the rifle. |
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Posted: 11/19/2013 8:09:02 PM EDT
[#9]
I picked up 1k rounds and only had the opportunity to shoot about 30 rounds. I recently got a new rifle and was trying out a bunch of different ammo, so didn't shoot a lot of one type.
Every round fired fine, no FTFs or anything. Accuracy was on par with Independence 556. (stock sig 516) I plan to go t the range Thursday and will shoot a couple hundred rounds of this stuff. I paid 0.36 +$29 shipping to Houston. |
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Posted: 11/20/2013 1:22:33 AM EDT
[#10]
Shipping to Ohio was only $29.00 as well. Received an E-mail with tracking number and it is scheduled for delivery today, only three days to my door.
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Posted: 11/20/2013 7:22:05 PM EDT
[#11]
With loose primer pockets is the brass reloadable?
Anyone compare brass reloads to LC, Federal, WW, or Frontier? I would not mind skipping the primer pocket swager. |
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Posted: 11/21/2013 5:10:48 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With loose primer pockets is the brass reloadable? Anyone compare brass reloads to LC, Federal, WW, or Frontier? I would not mind skipping the primer pocket swager. The loose primer pocket is just a speculation based on some lacquer sealed brass I've dealt with before. Once I can get out and shoot off some of these I can let everyone know how they clean up and how they prime and fire reloaded. Also when I cut them down I'll be able to get a good idea of web thickness, which can be a good indicator of quality. |
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Posted: 12/4/2013 5:56:57 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The loose primer pocket is just a speculation based on some lacquer sealed brass I've dealt with before. Once I can get out and shoot off some of these I can let everyone know how they clean up and how they prime and fire reloaded. Also when I cut them down I'll be able to get a good idea of web thickness, which can be a good indicator of quality. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
With loose primer pockets is the brass reloadable? Anyone compare brass reloads to LC, Federal, WW, or Frontier? I would not mind skipping the primer pocket swager. The loose primer pocket is just a speculation based on some lacquer sealed brass I've dealt with before. Once I can get out and shoot off some of these I can let everyone know how they clean up and how they prime and fire reloaded. Also when I cut them down I'll be able to get a good idea of web thickness, which can be a good indicator of quality. If you want me to ship some empty brass to cut, pm me. |
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Posted: 12/5/2013 1:12:45 PM EDT
[#14]
PM sent with address.
thanks. |
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Posted: 12/5/2013 9:01:48 PM EDT
[#15]
I shot a little bit of mine. Accuracy was good with iron sights. All fed and functioned fine.
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Posted: 12/6/2013 3:50:13 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
PM sent with address. thanks. Never got your message! |
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Posted: 12/6/2013 5:14:13 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Another guy on here picked up 1500 rounds of this stuff if I remember correctly. He shot a little of it but not enough to actually do a good test of the ammo, I don't fault him for it tho, everyone is busy and its always appreciated whatever information can be given, no matter how little. Hope you heal up soon so you can get back to the fun. Hope to see a range report on this stuff. I was considering buying some of it as well. That was me. I have burned through 300 rounds…. pleased enough that I purchased another 1500 rounds. I have not spent any bench time, as I am dialing a couple builds. That being said, accuracy is AT LEAST on par with M855 fodder. Not any dirtier than most commercial fodder. Shipping was $29 to my door, both orders arrived within 2 days, last delivery arrived on Saturday! No brainer IMHO. |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 5:55:01 AM EDT
[#18]
i bought some, hope it's good to go
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Posted: 12/9/2013 2:37:35 PM EDT
[#19]
I bought some a couple months ago, I think 500rds. Then I went back and bought 1500 more. I didn't pay shipping, as I am around the corner from them, so I can not comment on their shipping prices and policies.
I have shot a couple hundred rounds in my Mini-14 (My AR is still in parts), and no problems at all. Just as accurate as anything else I have shot through it, and cleaner than most bulk ammo. |
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Posted: 12/9/2013 3:08:45 PM EDT
[#20]
Thanks guys keep it coming. Im itching to get back to the range and try these out. Overall reception seems positive so I feel confident telling people these are G2G. All that's left is figuring out why shipping fluctuates so much and how they hold up reloaded. Once I'm back I'll convert some to 300 as well and see how they hold up for the gang.
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Posted: 12/9/2013 7:51:22 PM EDT
[#21]
They're located just about a mile from where I live, I just emailed them to see if they'll do local pick-ups. Sans shipping plus tax this may not be a bad deal. I'll see what they say.
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Posted: 12/10/2013 4:03:05 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks guys keep it coming. Im itching to get back to the range and try these out. Overall reception seems positive so I feel confident telling people these are G2G. All that's left is figuring out why shipping fluctuates so much and how they hold up reloaded. Once I'm back I'll convert some to 300 as well and see how they hold up for the gang. waiting for report are these good for long term storage? |
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Posted: 12/10/2013 4:10:40 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
waiting for report are these good for long term storage? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Thanks guys keep it coming. Im itching to get back to the range and try these out. Overall reception seems positive so I feel confident telling people these are G2G. All that's left is figuring out why shipping fluctuates so much and how they hold up reloaded. Once I'm back I'll convert some to 300 as well and see how they hold up for the gang. waiting for report are these good for long term storage? I feel comfortable saying yes because of the lacquer sealing. I would call it excessive but would say it's definitely good enough to prevent moisture damage for long term storage. I threw a dessicant pack in with mine but that's just my own precaution I use on all my ammo. |
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Posted: 12/10/2013 4:32:12 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I feel comfortable saying yes because of the lacquer sealing. I would call it excessive but would say it's definitely good enough to prevent moisture damage for long term storage. I threw a dessicant pack in with mine but that's just my own precaution I use on all my ammo. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks guys keep it coming. Im itching to get back to the range and try these out. Overall reception seems positive so I feel confident telling people these are G2G. All that's left is figuring out why shipping fluctuates so much and how they hold up reloaded. Once I'm back I'll convert some to 300 as well and see how they hold up for the gang. waiting for report are these good for long term storage? I feel comfortable saying yes because of the lacquer sealing. I would call it excessive but would say it's definitely good enough to prevent moisture damage for long term storage. I threw a dessicant pack in with mine but that's just my own precaution I use on all my ammo. so compared to LC M855, they are not crimped (neck and primer?) so they may get moisture in? I don't reload so I know little about these, thanks |
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Posted: 12/10/2013 4:41:20 PM EDT
[#25]
They are crimped and lacquer sealed at the neck, and just lacquer sealed at the primer. Don't worry about that though countries have been using lacquer to seal primers for a very long time and I've never had a problem shooting it decades later.
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Posted: 12/13/2013 10:32:56 AM EDT
[#26]
i tried magnet on green tip and sadu, and noticed the sadu attracts to magnet much more than the green tip, maybe it has just a bit bigger steel tip inside? which may explain the weight difference
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Posted: 12/13/2013 7:40:38 PM EDT
[#27]
Weight difference might just be all that lacquer!
If magnet strongly attracted to Sadu maybe it has a copper coated steel jacket? Lead has a specific gravity of 11 and steel just 7 so I doubt a larger steel penetrator would increase weight, probably reduce it instead. |
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Posted: 12/22/2013 1:49:03 AM EDT
[#28]
I would be interested to know if it were a bi-metal jacket, as opposed to straight copper.
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Posted: 12/22/2013 1:59:08 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would be interested to know if it were a bi-metal jacket, as opposed to straight copper. This plus a verification its boxer primed not berdan and the actual weight of a collet pulled bullet - with laquer cleaned off. maybe a hardness test to check the jacket. |
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Posted: 12/22/2013 9:17:52 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This plus a verification its boxer primed not berdan and the actual weight of a collet pulled bullet - with laquer cleaned off. maybe a hardness test to check the jacket. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I would be interested to know if it were a bi-metal jacket, as opposed to straight copper. This plus a verification its boxer primed not berdan and the actual weight of a collet pulled bullet - with laquer cleaned off. maybe a hardness test to check the jacket. For the bi-metal I can't answer but i can answer for the bullets and primers now. They are boxer primed and fit for reloading. After a wet tumble to remove lacquer the primer pockets are good and tight, and require no swagging or reaming which is great. I pulled five of each and found the results to be pretty interesting. As far as consistency they are both all over the place in most categories, but thats to be expected with this type of ammo. It is by no means match. 2012 LC green tip Pulled bullet weights low 62.4 high 62.9 average 62.5 Powder charge low 26.6 High 27.1 average 26.7 case weight low 93.0 high 93.4 average 93.2 case length low 1.748 high 1.759 average 1.752 2013 Sadu Pulled Bullet weights low 61.5 high 62.2 average 61.7 Powder charge low 25.1 high 25.9 average 25.3 case weight low 99.1 high 100.2 average 99.8 case length low 1.750 high 1.755 average 1.752 Still no velocity reports. Still another month or two before the doctor will let me shoot. Probably closer to the two. But still found this useful. The bullet weights are consistently lighter for the sadu, as well as the powder charges, however when measured and compared visually if it wasn't for the green tip on one it would be nearly impossible to notice which was which. The type of powder seemed very similar when looked at through a magnifying glass. The cases were consistently heavier on the sadu but this can be a good thing. I'll know more when i cut a few of them down to. This could mean thicker webbing adding to the longevity of the case. Or possibly higher capacity. Primer weights were almost identical on both types and remained consistent. I do't have the means to do the fine level water testing for case capacity, but if i can find a marked beaker somewhere i could always test this. Everyone feel free to add anything else you find. |
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Posted: 1/4/2014 4:01:48 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For the bi-metal I can't answer but i can answer for the bullets and primers now. They are boxer primed and fit for reloading. After a wet tumble to remove lacquer the primer pockets are good and tight, and require no swagging or reaming which is great. I pulled five of each and found the results to be pretty interesting. As far as consistency they are both all over the place in most categories, but thats to be expected with this type of ammo. It is by no means match. 2012 LC green tip Pulled bullet weights low 62.4 high 62.9 average 62.5 Powder charge low 26.6 High 27.1 average 26.7 case weight low 93.0 high 93.4 average 93.2 case length low 1.748 high 1.759 average 1.752 2013 Sadu Pulled Bullet weights low 61.5 high 62.2 average 61.7 Powder charge low 25.1 high 25.9 average 25.3 case weight low 99.1 high 100.2 average 99.8 case length low 1.750 high 1.755 average 1.752 Still no velocity reports. Still another month or two before the doctor will let me shoot. Probably closer to the two. But still found this useful. The bullet weights are consistently lighter for the sadu, as well as the powder charges, however when measured and compared visually if it wasn't for the green tip on one it would be nearly impossible to notice which was which. The type of powder seemed very similar when looked at through a magnifying glass. The cases were consistently heavier on the sadu but this can be a good thing. I'll know more when i cut a few of them down to. This could mean thicker webbing adding to the longevity of the case. Or possibly higher capacity. Primer weights were almost identical on both types and remained consistent. I do't have the means to do the fine level water testing for case capacity, but if i can find a marked beaker somewhere i could always test this. Everyone feel free to add anything else you find. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would be interested to know if it were a bi-metal jacket, as opposed to straight copper. This plus a verification its boxer primed not berdan and the actual weight of a collet pulled bullet - with laquer cleaned off. maybe a hardness test to check the jacket. For the bi-metal I can't answer but i can answer for the bullets and primers now. They are boxer primed and fit for reloading. After a wet tumble to remove lacquer the primer pockets are good and tight, and require no swagging or reaming which is great. I pulled five of each and found the results to be pretty interesting. As far as consistency they are both all over the place in most categories, but thats to be expected with this type of ammo. It is by no means match. 2012 LC green tip Pulled bullet weights low 62.4 high 62.9 average 62.5 Powder charge low 26.6 High 27.1 average 26.7 case weight low 93.0 high 93.4 average 93.2 case length low 1.748 high 1.759 average 1.752 2013 Sadu Pulled Bullet weights low 61.5 high 62.2 average 61.7 Powder charge low 25.1 high 25.9 average 25.3 case weight low 99.1 high 100.2 average 99.8 case length low 1.750 high 1.755 average 1.752 Still no velocity reports. Still another month or two before the doctor will let me shoot. Probably closer to the two. But still found this useful. The bullet weights are consistently lighter for the sadu, as well as the powder charges, however when measured and compared visually if it wasn't for the green tip on one it would be nearly impossible to notice which was which. The type of powder seemed very similar when looked at through a magnifying glass. The cases were consistently heavier on the sadu but this can be a good thing. I'll know more when i cut a few of them down to. This could mean thicker webbing adding to the longevity of the case. Or possibly higher capacity. Primer weights were almost identical on both types and remained consistent. I do't have the means to do the fine level water testing for case capacity, but if i can find a marked beaker somewhere i could always test this. Everyone feel free to add anything else you find. thanks for the info, from the fact sadu bullet attacts to magnet more and is lighter, most likely it has more steel less lead per discussion above |
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Posted: 1/4/2014 5:57:12 PM EDT
[#32]
If it has a steel penetrator that is heavier than 10 grains, it is not M855.
that is spec. Yo can shoot one of their bullets into a couple cement blocks and recover the penetrator which will be separated from jacket and lead to find out, but I wol dbe amazed if they differed more than a few fractions of a grain from specifications. |
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Posted: 1/5/2014 5:59:11 AM EDT
[#33]
Prices are currently $354\1000. The shipping cost of $30 to PA is what kills the deal
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Posted: 1/5/2014 12:29:27 PM EDT
[#34]
26$/1000 shipping to MD. Still, may have to jump on it. It's that, or pick up the $5.48/20 tula at walmart.
Hard to convince myself to save 10c/round going with steel cased plinker ammo over m855. |
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Posted: 1/5/2014 6:38:31 PM EDT
[#35]
You do have a point. Especially when Wolf Gold is $365 shipped.
I have 2k just don't know to jump on it or wait for the market to settle down more |
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Posted: 1/19/2014 2:20:32 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You do have a point. Especially when Wolf Gold is $365 shipped. I have 2k just don't know to jump on it or wait for the market to settle down more |
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Posted: 1/19/2014 1:45:26 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You do have a point. Especially when Wolf Gold is $365 shipped. I have 2k just don't know to jump on it or wait for the market to settle down more $358 shipped per 1000 if your a member and use the promo code SH1676 for free shipping. |
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Posted: 1/19/2014 5:26:41 PM EDT
[#38]
anyone here shot this thing yet?
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Posted: 1/19/2014 7:40:41 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: You do have a point. Especially when Wolf Gold is $365 shipped. I have 2k just don't know to jump on it or wait for the market to settle down more $358 shipped per 1000 if your a member and use the promo code SH1676 for free shipping.  |
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Posted: 1/22/2014 7:04:44 AM EDT
[#40]
shipping doesn't look too bad to TN. They quoted $24.25 for me. I think I may pick up a few thousand
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Posted: 1/23/2014 5:36:59 AM EDT
[#41]
My 500rnd test-batch is on the truck for delivery today. They lowered the price on 500 and 1000 rnd batches by maybe 8$. Not a lot, but with shipping it came out to 38.5¢/rnd.
Good enough for me to pull the trigger. |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 6:32:33 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
anyone here shot this thing yet? Yeah, I've put about 300 rounds downrange. Goes bang every time. Accuracy on par with other SS109 offerings. |
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Posted: 1/23/2014 11:11:31 AM EDT
[#43]
I ordered another 1000 rounds of it on Tuesday evening, it was delivered to my house Thursday mid day, pretty quick turn around.
This is the third time I have ordered it, I have shot about 600 rounds so far, not one problem with it. Love this stuff for the price of 5.56 ammo 62 gn. It is very accurate for not being match grade, some of the best plinking ammo I have run across. Shoots better than the LC M855 I have. The shipment included 10 30 round aluminum mags as well, My buddy wants them all for $10 a piece, and I have plenty of mags so it make it a better deal for me. After selling him the mags I will have .34 per round shipped. |
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Posted: 1/24/2014 4:56:37 PM EDT
[#44]
Thanks for the info and pics NavylS2,
Your post is the only informative post and write up on this SADU ammo anywhere as of now. I've literally searched the internet for hours |
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Posted: 2/5/2014 2:57:51 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the info and pics NavylS2, Your post is the only informative post and write up on this SADU ammo anywhere as of now. I've literally searched the internet for hours No problem. The real fun will be here in two weeks when the doc lets me shoot again. I'll make sure to chrony them and put up the groupings. I'll do a duel test comparing them to my lake city so we can get a real comparison. |
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Posted: 2/27/2014 8:50:33 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They're located just about a mile from where I live, I just emailed them to see if they'll do local pick-ups. Sans shipping plus tax this may not be a bad deal. I'll see what they say. Any word on this question? Do they allow local pickup at their facility? Anyone know the answer? Thanks. |
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Posted: 3/6/2014 6:32:41 AM EDT
[#47]
Any info yet? Just saw price is $350/1000 and $27.60 shipping to Fl. Not bad at all.....
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Posted: 3/6/2014 4:44:17 PM EDT
[#48]
any idea on what the velocity will be like?
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Posted: 3/6/2014 5:04:50 PM EDT
[#49]
This Saturday i will be taking a few hundred rounds of this to the range to do velocity and accuracy test, so of course ill post the results up here. I'll be using m855 as my control to compare it against an ammo most of us know and don't hate. Sorry its taking so long. It's been a longer healing process than I would have thought.
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Posted: 3/7/2014 4:01:22 PM EDT
[#50]
I have some hotshot 5.56 ss109 with the Sadu and 13 headstamp. Does anyone know if hotshot is just relabeled Sadu that you all are talking about in this thread? Looks pretty much the same from the pictures.
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