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Posted: 11/24/2012 5:28:53 AM EDT
2-9-13 Update:See page 3 for the 55gr through the A1 barrel after an upgrade.
I went to the range for some 100 yard testing yesterday with various loads, some factory, some handloaded. I am AT BEST an amateur handloader. I took along some Hornady Steel Match ammo, 55 gr HP and 75 gr BTHP. I tested two rifles, a brand new BCM 20" Gov't profile 1/7 upper and a flat top franken gun built around a used 20" M16A1 chrome lined 1/12 barrel. Temperature was 70 with a slight but constant breeze. I shot off of a front rest and rear bag using a Tasco 10x scope. I took my time and rested between shots. I was hoping that the Hornady ammo would give a good baseline for comparing the other ammo. In order from smallest to largest 10 shot group, extreme spread: For the BCM: 2.053 Federal Fusion 62 gr 2.440 Hornady Steel Match 55 gr 2.899 Hornady V-max 55 gr 4.300 Hornady Steel Match 75 gr 4.450 Federal AE223 55gr FMJ (wal mart black box) For the A1 Barrel: 2.381 Sierra Matchking handload 53gr FMJBT 2.559 Barnes TSX 55 gr 3.100 Federal AE223 55gr FMJ (wal mart black box) 3.449 Hornady Steel Match 55 gr The 55 gr did okay out of the BCM 1/7 barrel, but the 75 grain sucked, on par with the Federal FMJ M193 clone. That seems a bit backwards The 55 gr sucked out of the 1/12 barrel, actually getting beat by the Federal FMJ  I was impressed by the Federal Fusion. So something good came of it all. Here's a photo of the franken gun.  |
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Posted: 11/24/2012 6:32:04 AM EDT
[#1]
Sometimes the 75's will not stabilize @ 100 in some rifles.
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Posted: 11/24/2012 7:27:53 AM EDT
[#2]
so I need to shoot at a longer distance to get decent results?
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Posted: 11/24/2012 7:40:03 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
so I need to shoot at a longer distance to get decent results? Were the rounds keyholing? |
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Posted: 11/24/2012 7:56:42 AM EDT
[#4]
That's nuts man
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Posted: 11/24/2012 8:08:28 AM EDT
[#5]
Dude, you didn’t say but you got to shoot something that we know are MOA or better like FPGMM to show us that you and your gun can in fact do that well. |
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Posted: 11/24/2012 8:22:01 AM EDT
[#6]
I'm not sure why anyone would buy hornady steel, when you can get decent brass ammo for the same price or less...
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Posted: 11/24/2012 8:34:08 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: noQuoted: so I need to shoot at a longer distance to get decent results? Were the rounds keyholing? |
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Posted: 11/24/2012 8:36:09 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Let Federal Black box 55 gr FMJ be the baselineDude, you didn’t say but you got to shoot something that we know are MOA or better like FPGMM to show us that you and your gun can in fact do that well. |
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Posted: 11/24/2012 9:05:15 AM EDT
[#9]
I think your expectations are a little high given the equipment.
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Posted: 11/24/2012 9:11:11 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
I think your expectations are a little high given the equipment. |
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Posted: 11/24/2012 9:30:41 AM EDT
[#11]
im gonna go ahead and throw this out as operator error, but i wouldnt expect sub MOA from any of those loads in any of those guns.
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Posted: 11/24/2012 9:39:39 AM EDT
[#12]
I've shot the Hornady Steel Match, while I wasn't shooting for groups, it did perform better than the Federal 55 FMJ for sure.
This was out of a Colt 6921 SCOM and a 6940 with Aimpoints at 100 yards, typically around two and a half inch. I was shooting for function check and it was functioned fine. |
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Posted: 11/24/2012 9:45:36 AM EDT
[#13]
Regardless of his ability or either of the rifles the fact remains that for him, on that day, the Hornady Steel Match ammo shot the worst. I am not going to say that it will do the same for the next guy but for your two rifles it is not apparently the best choice. Have you shot MOA or better with any rifle at 100 yards? Not saying you haven't but more to quiet some of the crowd.
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Posted: 11/24/2012 9:47:28 AM EDT
[#14]
Hornady Steel Match was the least accurate out of 11 factory loads that we tested out of a 6920 and a S&W Sport.
5.56 Accuracy Study |
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Posted: 11/24/2012 9:52:10 AM EDT
[#15]
This isn't god news. 1k was delivered to my house this week and I haven't had the chance to shoot any yet.
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Posted: 11/24/2012 9:53:45 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
This isn't god news. 1k was delivered to my house this week and I haven't had the chance to shoot any yet. Some people have had great results with it. |
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Posted: 11/24/2012 10:03:43 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
This isn't god news. 1k was delivered to my house this week and I haven't had the chance to shoot any yet. Some people have had great results with it. Rainier said 75 works pretty good in their select barrels. I'll get to shoot some in about a month to see for myself. |
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Posted: 11/24/2012 10:12:27 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Hornady Steel Match was the least accurate out of 11 factory loads that we tested out of a 6920 and a S&W Sport. 5.56 Accuracy Study Now this is some good information, thanks. |
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Posted: 11/24/2012 11:02:47 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: I think your expectations are a little high given the equipment. Having either Hornady load outperform Federal Black box FMJ is not a high expectation at all. |
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Posted: 11/24/2012 11:03:31 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think your expectations are a little high given the equipment. |
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Posted: 11/24/2012 11:03:59 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: im gonna go ahead and throw this out as operator error, but i wouldnt expect sub MOA from any of those loads in any of those guns. I didn't ask for MOA, did I? I did expect the "match" loads to do better than bulk FMJ loads I paid quite a bit less money for. If anyone else has shot it side by side with another ammo type, please post your results. The facebook page is helpful. Although I wonder if the numbers are extreme spread or mean radius. |
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Posted: 11/24/2012 11:46:39 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
im gonna go ahead and throw this out as operator error, but i wouldnt expect sub MOA from any of those loads in any of those guns. I didn't ask for MOA, did I? I did expect the "match" loads to do better than bulk FMJ loads I paid quite a bit less money for. If anyone else has shot it side by side with another ammo type, please post your results. The facebook page is helpful. Although I wonder if the numbers are extreme spread or mean radius. Nice looking rifle. You should give it another couple tries to make sure it wasn't you having a bad group. It is possible the load isnt a good match to your barrel. And you are correct in expecting the match ammo to be better than 55fmj... And i would think at longer distances it actually would shine and do just that. 100 is pretty close and easy for most loads to group well. As you stretch out you should see more of a difference.... |
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Posted: 11/24/2012 1:24:29 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think your expectations are a little high given the equipment. Having either Hornady load outperform Federal Black box FMJ is not a high expectation at all. Right, but you're in another thread touting this as an accuracy display intristic of the 20" pencil profile barrel. A "frankengun" built with "used" parts. 
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/591829_Accuracy_of_an_M16A1_20_pencil_barrel.html |
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Posted: 11/24/2012 2:03:17 PM EDT
[#24]
The point of that thread is not to complain about the Hornady. That's what I'm doing in here. Surely you can tell the difference.
But thanks for cross linking to my other thread. I am satisfied with how the rifle did with the OTHER ammo. |
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Posted: 11/24/2012 3:09:47 PM EDT
[#25]
OP, I have no clue as to what is going on with your rifles. I'm sure you will figure it all out. What I don't get however, is why you are holding the Hornady to a higher standard, when nothing else did well either??? Has there ever been an ammo that you have gotten moa accuracy out of in that gun? I can't speak to your BCM, but your 1/12 twist A1, is not a gun that will reliably shoot 75 gr. stuff. Try and calm down a little bit man, there are guys in here trying to help. I know, it's hard not to get defensive, but I don't think that they are attacking.
As for the rest of the crowd, I buy the Hornady Steel buy the 1000's, and I get moa accuracy out of 3 different guns that I shoot it in. I am shooting the 52's. 55's, and 75's. All OTM loads. I find it to be some really good stuff. I am sure, like every other gun, you can find guns that don't like certain stuff. @FreedomFighter, what ammo can you get Hornady powders and bullets in, for less dough? Please link, I'm in. YMMV, L2 |
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Posted: 11/24/2012 3:20:05 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
but your 1/12 twist A1, is not a gun that will reliably shoot 75 gr. stuff. This. A 1-12" is a horrible choice for the 75gr bullets. |
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Posted: 11/24/2012 3:50:15 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: OP, I have no clue as to what is going on with your rifles. I'm sure you will figure it all out. What I don't get however, is why you are holding the Hornady to a higher standard, when nothing else did well either??? Has there ever been an ammo that you have gotten moa accuracy out of in that gun? I can't speak to your BCM, but your 1/12 twist A1, is not a gun that will reliably shoot 75 gr. stuff. Try and calm down a little bit man, there are guys in here trying to help. I know, it's hard not to get defensive, but I don't think that they are attacking. Did you read and understand my post? I expect Hornady Match to do BETTER than the others, I never expected MOA. I did not shoot 75 grain out of the 1/12. I shot two different kinds of Hornady Steel Match. It's silly to gripe at me because you misunderstand. As for the rest of the crowd, I buy the Hornady Steel buy the 1000's, and I get moa accuracy out of 3 different guns that I shoot it in. I am shooting the 52's. 55's, and 75's. All OTM loads. I find it to be some really good stuff. I am sure, like every other gun, you can find guns that don't like certain stuff. @FreedomFighter, what ammo can you get Hornady powders and bullets in, for less dough? Please link, I'm in. YMMV, L2 |
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Posted: 11/24/2012 3:51:55 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: I wholeheartedly agreeQuoted: but your 1/12 twist A1, is not a gun that will reliably shoot 75 gr. stuff. This. A 1-12" is a horrible choice for the 75gr bullets.  |
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Posted: 11/24/2012 4:17:59 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
OP, I have no clue as to what is going on with your rifles. I'm sure you will figure it all out. What I don't get however, is why you are holding the Hornady to a higher standard, when nothing else did well either??? Has there ever been an ammo that you have gotten moa accuracy out of in that gun? I can't speak to your BCM, but your 1/12 twist A1, is not a gun that will reliably shoot 75 gr. stuff. Try and calm down a little bit man, there are guys in here trying to help. I know, it's hard not to get defensive, but I don't think that they are attacking. Did you read and understand my post? I expect Hornady Match to do BETTER than the others, I never expected MOA. I did not shoot 75 grain out of the 1/12. I shot two different kinds of Hornady Steel Match. It's silly to gripe at me because you misunderstand. As for the rest of the crowd, I buy the Hornady Steel buy the 1000's, and I get moa accuracy out of 3 different guns that I shoot it in. I am shooting the 52's. 55's, and 75's. All OTM loads. I find it to be some really good stuff. I am sure, like every other gun, you can find guns that don't like certain stuff. @FreedomFighter, what ammo can you get Hornady powders and bullets in, for less dough? Please link, I'm in. YMMV, L2 I think by my response, I did read and understand your post. Silly to gripe at you because I don't understand??? First off, I'm not griping, secondly, I understand perfectly fine. I understand that you either A. are not that great of a shooter, and will not ever get groups worth a shit. Or B. you have gear that you don't realize is not capable of said groups. Either way, I really don't care, because it seems yet again, you are more than a little defensive about the whole thing. Nobody has attacked you yet. All I have seen is people trying to help, and you getting crap mouthed with them. Look at your your last post, with the eye rolling emoticon, for instance. If you are so smart, figure it out yourself pal. Good luck with your shotgun. L2 |
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Posted: 11/24/2012 5:30:33 PM EDT
[#30]
Two questions:
1. Why did you question me about shooting 75 grain out of a 1/12 barrel? 2. Do you think it's unreasonable to expect Hornady Steel Match to do noticeably better than FMJ? |
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Posted: 11/24/2012 5:49:42 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Two questions: 1. Why did you question me about shooting 75 grain out of a 1/12 barrel? 2. Do you think it's unreasonable to expect Hornady Steel Match to do noticeably better than FMJ? The twist rate is way to slow for a 75gr bullet. 1-7" twist rate is better. Fast twist rates for heavy bullets. Slow twist rate for lighter bullets. |
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Posted: 11/24/2012 6:00:30 PM EDT
[#32]
The 75gr SM shoots .75" and the 55gr SM shoots .6" out on my 1 in 8, 18" rifle. It's been consistent in every case I've bought (I've gone through 4 this year) and I've confirmed zero 4-5 times this year before major matches. I don't think it's the ammo.
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Posted: 11/24/2012 6:06:39 PM EDT
[#33]
I've has sub 2 M.O.A. performance out of Hornady Steel Match 75gr, and I'm no super expert shooter and I don't use a 10x scope.
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Posted: 11/24/2012 6:18:43 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Two questions: 1. Why did you question me about shooting 75 grain out of a 1/12 barrel? 2. Do you think it's unreasonable to expect Hornady Steel Match to do noticeably better than FMJ? My mistake on the 75 out of your 1/12. Yes I think you having expectations of any sort are unreasonable. Or anybody else for the matter. Just because you expect something, doesn't make it so. There is some really good ammo out there, and that doesn't add up to anything. That doesn't mean it will shoot great out of every gun I own. And if it doesn't, doesn't mean it is shit either. But then again, I would think that a guy with 13000 posts might have a little better clue. Cajunboy has it dead on the nuts. That shit shoots for me. I think that people before me, and now after, have reached a reasonable conclusion. Good luck, you'll need it. L2 |
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Posted: 11/24/2012 6:57:25 PM EDT
[#35]
I have a 16in SS Wilson Match HB with a 1/8 twist and it shoots Great for me. I was adjusting my scope after it came out of the case because I knew it got knocked around a little. It started out shooting to the right, then did a couple clicks, It was then shooting a little low, but getting a great grouping, then added 1 click for elevation up and it was then in the zone, and the range whistle blew. And my camera died ( dead batteries ). On other targets my groupings were pretty much like the lower one. All one hole. Next time I will do 5 shot groups of the Hornaday 75 grn. & the Privi 75 grn.& 62 Grn. PMC X-Tac M885. I like it so much I've bought many many cases of it over the last couple of years for regular shooting & to go with my stash of PMC-X-Tac for SHTF.
100 yards 
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Posted: 11/24/2012 7:05:07 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
I have a 16in SS Wilson Match HB with a 1/8 twist and it shoots Great for me. I was adjusting my scope after it came out of the case because I knew it got knocked around a little. It started out shooting to the right, then did a couple clicks, It was then shooting a little low, but getting a great grouping, then added 1 click for elevation up and it was then in the zone, and the range whistle blew. And my camera died ( dead batteries ). On other targets my groupings were pretty much like the lower one. All one hole. Next time I will do 5 shot groups of the Hornaday 75 grn. & the Privi 75 grn.& 62 Grn. PMC X-Tac M885. I like it so much I've bought many many cases of it over the last couple of years for regular shooting & to go with my stash of PMC-X-Tac for SHTF. 100 yards http://www.the-desert-fox.com/images/stories/4.jpg Heresy you say!!! I call BS on you friend! There is no way Hornady Steel could ever do that! LMAO! L2 |
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Posted: 11/24/2012 7:17:50 PM EDT
[#37]
I had 1 tasco scope in my life, never again. they may have changed over the last 15 yrs but the one I had you could move 6 clicks up and then back down 6 clicks and end up 2 moa off so never again, same with left to right.
I have seen more people get rid of guns and change ammo when the problem was the scope. may not be your problem at all but I thought I would mention it. my 6940 will give your results open sights. |
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Posted: 11/24/2012 7:40:01 PM EDT
[#38]
You can say what you wish but that is how it shoots from my rifle, Hornady #9760 75 grn. Steel case Training with the TC1 bullet. and I'm not the only one getting these type of results. See Molon's posts link below. He is getting better groups than mine.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/283506_.html&page=20 
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Posted: 11/24/2012 8:02:05 PM EDT
[#39]
Not just bad scopes, but mount issues also. The first time I tried grouping my AR I wasn't happy at all. Just on a whim I changed the scope mount and the groups shrank by 1/3. Lessen it you have to look at everything.
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Posted: 11/24/2012 8:13:11 PM EDT
[#40]
I am also not very impressed with the 75gr steel match ammo
It's anything other than MATCH ammo. I put 200 rounds down range two months ago from 125 yards. Although, I hit a 5 inch target the spread was about 4+ inches on a calm windless day. I never actually measured but I was not impressed I was using a RR match trigger lower, a DSA 1/7 upper 20 inch barrel With a Super Sniper 10x scope and harriss bipod. |
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Posted: 11/24/2012 8:26:33 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
You can say what you wish but that is how it shoots from my rifle, Hornady #9760 75 grn. Steel case Training with the TC1 bullet. and I'm not the only one getting these type of results. See Molon's posts link below. He is getting better groups than mine. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/283506_.html&page=20 http://www.the-desert-fox.com/images/stories/3.jpg Sorry man, I was only kidding with you. I am a fan of this ammo. In spite of what a couple have said, everybody seems to like it. Again, maybe even Federal GMM isn't for everybody. L2 |
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Posted: 11/25/2012 1:56:11 PM EDT
[#42]
I am very impressed with Hornady steel match and steel training. Both have given me sub MOA numerous times in a Noveske stainless 18". I consider the ammo consistant 1.5MOA ammo, at least. My Colts shoot it OK but not special.
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Posted: 11/25/2012 2:30:03 PM EDT
[#43]
Well, Hornady Steel Match may not be the most accurate, but as I have 500 rounds on the way I sure hope its terminal ballistics are still worth a darn.
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Posted: 11/25/2012 3:51:50 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Well, Hornady Steel Match may not be the most accurate, but as I have 500 rounds on the way I sure hope its terminal ballistics are still worth a darn. Don't worry, it's good on both accounts. L2 |
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Posted: 11/25/2012 4:03:10 PM EDT
[#45]
OP I understand why you expect hornady to outshoot the cheap stuff, with ammo its sometimes weird what does and does not shoot well in a particular barrel
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Posted: 11/25/2012 4:59:26 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: Well, Hornady Steel Match may not be the most accurate, but as I have 500 rounds on the way I sure hope its terminal ballistics are still worth a darn. The 55 grain is not a good choice for self defense purposes. The 75 grain that uses the bullet with a cannelure is reportedly a very good defensive round. Click here And here |
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Posted: 11/25/2012 6:58:30 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
The 75gr SM shoots .75" and the 55gr SM shoots .6" out on my 1 in 8, 18" rifle. It's been consistent in every case I've bought (I've gone through 4 this year) and I've confirmed zero 4-5 times this year before major matches. I don't think it's the ammo. This , it always shot sub moa out of my noveske . |
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Posted: 11/25/2012 7:00:23 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Quoted:
This isn't god news. 1k was delivered to my house this week and I haven't had the chance to shoot any yet. Some people have had great results with it. Guess I am one of those few. My Colt Match Hbar will shoot groups fairly consistently from .75 to 1.25" at 100 yards with the Hornady Steel Match 75grn. Also, it is attached to a Leupold Mark 4 3.5x10x40 scope. Just leave the icky Hornady Steel Match 75grn on the shelf...I'll buy it up. |
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Posted: 11/25/2012 8:31:12 PM EDT
[#49]
My rifle loves the stuff.
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Posted: 11/25/2012 8:32:56 PM EDT
[#50]
MRW
Well I guess lesson learned ! Just because it's exspensive doesn't mean it's good ammo or it will be accurate! With more practice your reloads should be way better then any factory ammo anyway. Just remember velocity isn't everything. Some times the most accurate load is not a max load! And every rifle is different so what might shoot great in one with shoot like shit in another! That why we love our hobby!
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