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har1340
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Posted: 12/2/2007 1:19:05 PM
Understanding that black tipped ammo, armor piercing and green tipped being steel core. Are they one in the same? My range won't allow ap, just wondering about steel core being ap as well
Brig_Rat
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Posted: 12/2/2007 1:34:59 PM
height=8
Originally Posted By har1340:
Understanding that black tipped ammo, armor piercing and green tipped being steel core. Are they one in the same? My range won't allow ap, just wondering about steel core being ap as well steel core is not armor piercing...
Nic4433
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Posted: 12/2/2007 2:51:29 PM

Originally Posted By Brig_Rat:

Originally Posted By har1340:
Understanding that black tipped ammo, armor piercing and green tipped being steel core. Are they one in the same? My range won't allow ap, just wondering about steel core being ap as well


steel core is not armor piercing...


This is correct. The green tip, M855 ammo is not armor piercing. It merely has a steel core. True armour piercing ammo is almost impossible to find as a civilian as it is very rare, it is even rare in the military as it is almost never used.
osprey21
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Posted: 12/2/2007 2:53:25 PM
Thrice.
FDT08
Troy
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Posted: 12/2/2007 3:33:46 PM
US military M995 AP 5.56 has a black tip and uses a hardened tungsten carbide core. This ammo cost more than $2/round when M855 cost $.12/round, and is only available to the military as a special-request item and only in SAW belts. In most cases, its use is restricted to SpecOps. None has ever been surplussed, and no projectiles are available. Outside of a tiny quantity that could have been smuggled out by active-duty troops, we will likely never see this ammo available on the civilian market.

M855 "green tip" ammo is considered "standard" or "ball" ammo by the military. It features a mild-steel penetrator in the tip to increase hard target penetration at longer ranges vs. M193, but is NOT considered AP ammo and does not perform well enough to meet that classification.

Note that some non-US-made M855-type ammo (Igman "Hotshot") comes with black-painted tips, and some ammo dealers at gun shows try (often successfully) to pass this off as being true AP, but it isn't.

-Troy
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JaxxKat
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Posted: 12/2/2007 4:34:28 PM
[Last Edit: 12/2/2007 4:51:11 PM by JaxxKat]

Originally Posted By Nic4433:

Originally Posted By Brig_Rat:

Originally Posted By har1340:
Understanding that black tipped ammo, armor piercing and green tipped being steel core. Are they one in the same? My range won't allow ap, just wondering about steel core being ap as well


steel core is not armor piercing...


This is correct. The green tip, M855 ammo is not armor piercing. It merely has a steel core. True armour piercing ammo is almost impossible to find as a civilian as it is very rare, it is even rare in the military as it is almost never used.


Yup.but M855 punches a 1/4in plate.. Ive never seen it in anything but 50 BMG , as far as black tip , but lots of other armor piercing stuff out there , ive even seen ap 22LR..I consider this costly ammo novelty only..

speaking of ammo Wally still has the federal 50gr hp 223 , i paid $58 a box for 200rds..
Dont ya just love socialism?
GHPorter
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Posted: 12/2/2007 7:53:16 PM
Troy, does the M995 bullet have a gilding metal jacket? It would probably be an easy check to see if a "black tip" was actually an imported SS109-like bullet rather than an AP projo if the M995 bullets are copper and tungsten-and thus non-magnetic.
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Sgt_Gold
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Posted: 12/2/2007 8:25:43 PM
"The projectile consists of a dense metal penetrator (tungsten carbide), which is enclosed by a standard gilding metal jacket. An aluminum cup sits at the rear of the projectile for the purpose of properly locating the penetrator within the projectile. The cartridge utilizes a conventional brass case and double base propellant."

Full text


Originally Posted By GHPorter:
Troy, does the M995 bullet have a gilding metal jacket? It would probably be an easy check to see if a "black tip" was actually an imported SS109-like bullet rather than an AP projo if the M995 bullets are copper and tungsten-and thus non-magnetic.
B4Ctom1
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Posted: 12/26/2007 8:45:37 PM
[Last Edit: 12/26/2007 8:54:25 PM by B4Ctom1]

Originally Posted By Troy:
US military M995 AP 5.56 has a black tip and uses a hardened tungsten carbide core. This ammo cost more than $2/round when M855 cost $.12/round, and is only available to the military as a special-request item and only in SAW belts. In most cases, its use is restricted to SpecOps. None has ever been surplussed, and no projectiles are available. Outside of a tiny quantity that could have been smuggled out by active-duty troops, we will likely never see this ammo available on the civilian market.

M855 "green tip" ammo is considered "standard" or "ball" ammo by the military. It features a mild-steel penetrator in the tip to increase hard target penetration at longer ranges vs. M193, but is NOT considered AP ammo and does not perform well enough to meet that classification.

Note that some non-US-made M855-type ammo (Igman "Hotshot") comes with black-painted tips, and some ammo dealers at gun shows try (often successfully) to pass this off as being true AP, but it isn't.

-Troy


I totally agree with everything you said except the (Igman "Hotshot") part. Igman is a Yugoslavian ammo maker, and Hotshot is a company in Romania. They are not related.

A great way to test dissected ammo for being AP is that you cannot crush a tungsten core. To help you dissect the bullet, you hammer either AP or non AP with steel core and the jacket will come right off while the core will remains.

The property and nature of a real tungsten core AP is that the core is hard and dense enough that even with a hammer and an anvil you will only accomplish denting and damaging the hammer and anvil while the projectile will remain essentially un-marked.

As an example I ran over a 50 BMG AP bullet with a locomotive. It only managed to dent the rail. Even with a dial caliper the lathe cut tungsten core didn't go out of round any measurable amount.

A mild steel core of the type which is not AP will flatten out with a hammer after a few or many whacks, but it will flatten.