Is there a difference in quality between the cmmg and black dog mags?

I can get a target master (sold by black dog)  conversion kit with 2 black dog 25rd mags for 135 (20% off sale)

Or

I can get a cmmg bravo conversion kit with 3 cmmg 25rd mags for about 175

money aside, Which should I get? The design of the conversions seem similar but the cmmg bravo is stainless and the target master sold by black dog appears to be some kind of cromoly.

Which to get?

Plan is to use them in regular 223 AR's until something like the taccom ULW carbon fiber barrels come back in stock, then build a dedicated upper.

Thanks for the tips.  As fae as the conversion itself; what about the stainless cmmg "bravo" conversion vs the one sold by black dog, the "target master" conversion.

I've seen some reviews that say the stainless finish on the new cmmg bravo makes a difference; the target master one appears to be phosphate or parked non-stainless.  

The target master comes with two black dog mags, would you still recommend the mag adapter if I'm just going to be using black dog mags? If the cmmg is considered better than the Target Master, I could get the cmmg with one mag and buy a couple BDM mags.  


Also, will this barrel require a collar, or can I just remove the chamber insert from the conversion and use it as-is?
https://www.righttobear.com/CMMG-16-Barrel-M4-4140CM-SBN-22LR-p/22d7c0a.htm

Here's a link to the target master unit with 2 BDM mags: http://blackdogmachinellc.net/target-master-22-lr-conversion-unit.aspx?variationid=371


Thx again

I have the stainless cmmg and mostly bd mags, the cmmg mag failed during first load. I dicked with it quite a while to fix it.

I read some stuff about different generations of cmmg mags, are they pretty much all crap?

The targetmaster and two BDM 25rd mags is only like 130 shipped right now.  Or I can get a cmmg bravo for about 30 more, and pick up some.BDM mags lager.

I'm mostly concerned with reliability of the conversion itself, though.  And extremely concerned with future compatability with 22lr AR-15 barrels.

Someone from BDM responded to my email saying the TM 22lr adapter was compatible with "most" barrels with collars, but having never seen any of these devices outside of the blister packs at the LGS, I don't know much about how they work.  

I just want the better of the two between cmmg stainless and TM non-stainless, and to make sure whichever one will be future compatible with 22lr AR barrels.

As  I understand the chamber insert on the conversion itself will definitely  need to be replaced with this to work with 22lr AR barrels? (Cmmg collar) https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/mobile/product/714008648/redirect

Or are there barrels that don't require the collar?

I found some people here talking about using the TM conversion along with a cmmg collar.


https://www.thefirearmsforum.com/threads/ar-15-22lr-target-build.167379/page-2

One thing I noticed is that the cmmg has a piece of brass to go in the chamber adapter, vs what looks like steel for the target master.  

Will this make a difference in wear on my barrels?

ETA - looking closer, the brass part doesn't go in the chamber, it must go into the locking lug area.

I havent used either conversion so I can't comment on that. I have 2 AR 22's  the first and the one I love (both gun and the company) Is a Tactical solutions  (mag Adapters DO NOT work with this rifle) and a recently built 9 inch CMMG Pistol. I have a 3 cmmg mags and they all required tinkering to get them reliable ,  I have 1/2 dozen BDMs from different generations they have all been reliable right out of the box.

Is your cmmg the dedicated bolt?

I have been around a dozen or more CMMG 22 conversions or dedicated 22 uppers  The most common problem on any Atchisson/Ciener style 22 conversion is broken firing pins.   Another problem is is the weld on the rear plate where the bolt rails attach.  It is not unheard of to get a bad weld and the rails can break at the rear plate.  Black Dog Machine has good customer service and would probably assist if you had a problem with the Target Master conversion.  I have several of the grey CMMG mags with green bolt hold open followers.  Several of the mags had flashing (excess material from molding) left on the inside of the mag which hindered reliability.   The CMMG mags were easily fixed and since they have been as reliable as my Black Dog Machine mags.

If I were in your position I'd buy the CMMG SS 22 conversion and one magazine.  Test the 22 conversion for accuracy and reliabilty in your AR-15.  I've seen a few people who did not like 22 conversions in their AR-15's.  I used a 22 conversion for a couple of years until I bought a dedicated upper.  I found I was shooting way more 22 LR than centerfire 223/5.56.  I used the 22 conversion for CQB training, shooting steel plates and plinking.  My 5.56/223 barrels were 1:9 twist.  No 22 rimfire conversion using a 223/5.56 barrel will be as accurate as a dedicated 22 LR barrel/upper.  The 1:7 223/5.56 barrels will produce more fliers and inconsistent to poor accuracy.  If your going to shoot paper target for groups you probably won't be satisfied with accuracy from a 1:7 twist barrel.

The worst part of using a 22 conversion in your AR-15 is the filth from shooting 22 LR.   As long as you fire a couple rounds of 223/5.56 after 500-1000 rounds of rimfire you'll keep the gas system open.  I always ran a bore snake through my 223/5.56 barrels after shooting rimfire and before shooting centerfire.  Not a bad thing to run the bore snake through your barrel after shooting steel cased centerfire ammo before using the 22 conversion.

If you buy the 22 conversion from CMMG you know it should work with a CMMG collar/barrel or Taccom collar/barrel.  If not CMMG has good CS.  If you like your CMMG conversion then buy BDM mags or the Better Mag Adapter and S&W mags for a fully functional bolt catch.

Black Dog makes good mags - but you cannot use the boonie packer mag adapter with BD mags, and BD mags do not actually activate the bolt hold-open - though several types of mags have tall followers which physically block the bolt from going into batter when they're empty.

CMMG has made a lot of refinements to the basic Atchisson 22lr conversion system, some of which are patent protected, others have also been adopted by other makers like the TM conversions.

I think the pinnacle of 22 AR development, with full functionality, is a CMMG conversion on a dedicated barrel with CMMG collar, using S&W M&P15-22 magazines with the boonie packer magazine well adapter. But a TM conversion on a regular AR, even with steel chamber insert, and BD mags will still be supremely functional, practical and useful.

ETA: Add a Taccom reliability kit, and lakeside springs to the CMMG/boonie/SW15-22 combo for that extra sigma of reliablity and awesomeness...

My vote goes to the stainless CMMG kit and black dog mags.  Mine has been 100% reliable for several years.  I can't make it malfunction if I tried.  I have been considering the mag adapter to use M&P mags but I'm afraid of messing with something that already works perfect

CMMG with BD always worked...

So, I can get the TM with two BDM MAGS for 132 shipped

Or the cmmg with one cmmg mag for about 172 shipped

I emailed the seller of the TM unit and he said it would be compatible with the various collars.  I asked about the taccom ULW barrels and he said that he sold taccom the bolts for their uppers for a while.

The cmmg does look nice with the stainless and the brass chamber protector, though.   Other than that the TM is in the lead.

I have a dedicated cmmg upper. I have always used the cmmg mags and never experienced the issues others complain about.  I've had many thousands of rounds out of about 10 cmmg mags, with very very few failures.  

My cmmg mags are older though, maybe about 7 years old at this point. I think I bought them shortly after cmmg started making them, and I've been told here that their quality has gone downhill since they were originally produced, and that the early production ones are way better than the newer ones.

Older CMMG Stainless conversion with the Boonie Packer mag adapter and 15/22 mags.
If you don't want to go that route, get the BDM mags.

The stainless cleans up easier, is stronger, and runs smoother.
If you can get it, use copper wash ammo like CCI Mini Mags, Federal bulk, or Winchester bulk, 36gr. copper was.
Leaves less crud in the conversion and barrel.

Dave N

So i got the conversion and  black dog mags and ordered about 2750 rounds of various ammo.. fed automatch plus a few kinds of mid grade copper plated high velocity  stuff.

CCI lead free
Win 1300fps 40gr copper plated
Win 37gr high velociy copper plated
CCI AR Tactical 22lr
Fed Champion 36gr CP

I hope it works out for you, but I'm not sure why you ignored everyone saying the cmmg stainless is better in every way.

Well its guaranteed, if it doesmt work.