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Page AR-15 » Rimfire and Pistol Calibers
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
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Posted: 2/8/2017 12:40:24 PM EDT
At SHOT they were saying that it will be available for purchase beginning this summer.  I think initially it will be as a complete gun, and then in individual parts so consumers can build their own to their liking.  I've been waiting on this one for quite some time so it will be nice to finally see it and not have it just be "vaporware".  

Anyone else planning on purchasing one of these?
Link Posted: 2/8/2017 2:39:06 PM EDT
[#1]
I was interested when I saw them first mentioned over a year ago.  Now, not so much.  When you factor in the cost of the lower, proprietary upper, bolt, barrel, ect you are going to be in for atleast $1,300.  I would pickup another Zenith MP5 clone for a few hundred more personally.
Link Posted: 2/8/2017 2:43:25 PM EDT
[#2]
I just don't see the appeal when Colt and Glock mag Ar's are available much cheaper.  If you already have MP5 mags, you already have a MP5.
Link Posted: 2/8/2017 3:13:04 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I just don't see the appeal when Colt and Glock mag Ar's are available much cheaper.  If you already have MP5 mags, you already have a MP5.
View Quote


Agreed.

Now if we're talking a MP5 style roller locked upper that fits an AR lower then count me as interested.
Link Posted: 2/8/2017 5:09:55 PM EDT
[#4]
Need 100 dollar lower for M&P pistol magazines.
Link Posted: 2/8/2017 6:37:26 PM EDT
[#5]
Depends on price.

QC10 is very proud of their products, as evidenced by the prices they ask for them.

You can build a nice 9mm AR for a fraction of what QC10 asks.

I have a sinking feeling that they are gonna price the MP5 lower, if it ever shows, at a price that will undermine its success.

Personally I was stoked when they announced at SHOT16, but as it has reached vapor-ware status the shine has come off for me.

$400 or less for an upper-lower combo, it may do well.

If they shoot for the stars on price, the market will be much smaller. There will always be fanbois that have to have this.

I'm on the fence, if its priced retarded then I'll just buy a POF / MKE offering.

YMMV.
Link Posted: 2/9/2017 12:42:17 AM EDT
[#6]
I don't see it either.  Colt, PSA, and G18 mags are far cheaper and if I had lots of MP5 mags I probably own a MP5 and am not going to screw around with a AR 9mm.
Link Posted: 2/9/2017 2:37:42 AM EDT
[#7]
I originally was very interested last year but another year has come and gone. We will see if it's available in the summer or not. Maybe once I have the funds for another build.
Link Posted: 2/9/2017 9:01:02 AM EDT
[#8]
"Need 100 dollar lower for M&P pistol magazines."  
I'll second this
Link Posted: 2/9/2017 4:33:20 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I just don't see the appeal when Colt and Glock mag Ar's are available much cheaper.  If you already have MP5 mags, you already have a MP5.
View Quote


That's my problem, I want to play with more 9mm carbines, but I have a MP5 SBR and its tough to beat.
Link Posted: 2/9/2017 6:11:51 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Depends on price.

QC10 is very proud of their products, as evidenced by the prices they ask for them.

You can build a nice 9mm AR for a fraction of what QC10 asks.

I have a sinking feeling that they are gonna price the MP5 lower, if it ever shows, at a price that will undermine its success.

Personally I was stoked when they announced at SHOT16, but as it has reached vapor-ware status the shine has come off for me.

$400 or less for an upper-lower combo, it may do well.

If they shoot for the stars on price, the market will be much smaller. There will always be fanbois that have to have this.

I'm on the fence, if its priced retarded then I'll just buy a POF / MKE offering.

YMMV.
View Quote


I'm very happy with my QC10 lower and I've got an upper on order. Nice combination of function/form. With that said why would I buy a MP5 mag compatible AR lower? If I have a ton of MP5 mags I'm probably shooting a MP5. With the availability and price of Glock/Colt mags I just don't get it. Maybe some people just want a curved mag sticking out of their lower.
Link Posted: 2/10/2017 1:10:19 AM EDT
[#11]
Rather than making a lower to take a curve MP5 mag, R&D money would be better spent on designing a curve style Colt 9mm AR mag. I am sure they would sell tons of it and would look sexy in their Colt style lowers.

They should just contract Lancer or other mag manufacturers to design/ build one. I am no genius, but would say it would be a lot cheaper than tying to design a lower and an upper around and MP5 mag.
Link Posted: 2/10/2017 3:58:03 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Rather than making a lower to take a curve MP5 mag, R&D money would be better spent on designing a curve style Colt 9mm AR mag. I am sure they would sell tons of it and would look sexy in their Colt style lowers.

They should just contract Lancer or other mag manufacturers to design/ build one. I am no genius, but would say it would be a lot cheaper than tying to design a lower and an upper around and MP5 mag.
View Quote

Back when CProducts were in development of their 9mm AR magazine I practically begged them to make it a curved magazine instead of straight.

There actually are some curved magazines that work in at least some 9mm AR magblocks. They were made from some relatively obscure 9mm subgun magazines in the early days of the '94 AW ban, before ATF made a determination that modifying preban mags was no longer allowed.

Attachment Attached File


Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 2/10/2017 8:19:03 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Back when CProducts were in development of their 9mm AR magazine I practically begged them to make it a curved magazine instead of straight.

There actually are some curved magazines that work in at least some 9mm AR magblocks. They were made from some relatively obscure 9mm subgun magazines in the early days of the '94 AW ban, before ATF made a determination that modifying preban mags was no longer allowed.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/58237/pic002copy-143948.JPG

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/58237/pic008copy-143949.JPG
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Rather than making a lower to take a curve MP5 mag, R&D money would be better spent on designing a curve style Colt 9mm AR mag. I am sure they would sell tons of it and would look sexy in their Colt style lowers.

They should just contract Lancer or other mag manufacturers to design/ build one. I am no genius, but would say it would be a lot cheaper than tying to design a lower and an upper around and MP5 mag.

Back when CProducts were in development of their 9mm AR magazine I practically begged them to make it a curved magazine instead of straight.

There actually are some curved magazines that work in at least some 9mm AR magblocks. They were made from some relatively obscure 9mm subgun magazines in the early days of the '94 AW ban, before ATF made a determination that modifying preban mags was no longer allowed.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/58237/pic002copy-143948.JPG

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/58237/pic008copy-143949.JPG


I have two of those.
Link Posted: 2/10/2017 9:58:02 AM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Back when CProducts were in development of their 9mm AR magazine I practically begged them to make it a curved magazine instead of straight.

There actually are some curved magazines that work in at least some 9mm AR magblocks. They were made from some relatively obscure 9mm subgun magazines in the early days of the '94 AW ban, before ATF made a determination that modifying preban mags was no longer allowed.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/58237/pic002copy-143948.JPG

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/58237/pic008copy-143949.JPG
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Rather than making a lower to take a curve MP5 mag, R&D money would be better spent on designing a curve style Colt 9mm AR mag. I am sure they would sell tons of it and would look sexy in their Colt style lowers.

They should just contract Lancer or other mag manufacturers to design/ build one. I am no genius, but would say it would be a lot cheaper than tying to design a lower and an upper around and MP5 mag.

Back when CProducts were in development of their 9mm AR magazine I practically begged them to make it a curved magazine instead of straight.

There actually are some curved magazines that work in at least some 9mm AR magblocks. They were made from some relatively obscure 9mm subgun magazines in the early days of the '94 AW ban, before ATF made a determination that modifying preban mags was no longer allowed.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/58237/pic002copy-143948.JPG

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/58237/pic008copy-143949.JPG


Wow, I've seen this before, but never knew who made it. I assume these things are extremely rare and would require mods to work. Someone or company should just copy this. A 25 rds or 30 rds curve mag would look awesome in a dedicated lower. There you go, curve mags for our 9mm AR.

Let's all send emails to Lancer and beg them to build this.
Link Posted: 2/10/2017 9:59:53 AM EDT
[#15]
Madsen M53 mags - M46 and M50 used straight mags.  I see the straight ones for sale from time to time and I think there are a few places online advertising them as available today.  Not sure I have seen the curved for sale, but I never really looked for them either.

I remember threads from years ago about using them (and other mags) in AR9's years go, but don't really remember the story of trying to convince CP to go curved.  Everything I saw lead me to believe they pretty much only looked at copying the Metalform straight mags, but theirs were going to be better because there would be different versions for different setups/magblocks/whatever...
Link Posted: 2/10/2017 12:48:18 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History

Let's all send emails to Lancer and beg them to build this.
View Quote

Lancer can't help us.

They already make the 9mm magazine for the MPX. Someone could make a dedicated lower for MPX magazines, but since the cost of the mags is so high it would have limited sales.

There isn't room in the regular AR-9 magwell for a plastic magazine, as plastic mags are thicker than metal and there is not enough excess room for the extra thickness. It has to be a metal magazine.
Link Posted: 2/10/2017 1:40:01 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
There isn't room in the regular AR-9 magwell for a plastic magazine, as plastic mags are thicker than metal and there is not enough excess room for the extra thickness. It has to be a metal magazine.
View Quote

The diameter of 9mm and .223 is similar (.391 vs .376).  One would think that it should be possible to develop a plastic mag with a molded feedramp at the front that would work in conjunction with a half block at the back of the magwell (similar to the Hahn Sten mag adaptor with a Colt style ejector added to it - this would also have a paddle mag release like the MP5).

Or, if someone is already going to go through the trouble to build a new lower to use different mags that don't fit in the current AR lower, why not make a new mag to go with it?

There's always the option of a metal feed lip insert or partial metal lining for the top of the mag.  It could also be made as single feed, but double stacked - same as Glock and other pistol mags, but it begs the question of why bother, since there are already Glock mags.

From a theoretical standpoint, all of this stuff seems cool and neat.  From business standpoint, it seems like the business case might be on the weak side.  There are already quite a few AR9 options that take proven mags that cost as little as $10-20/ea.

FYI - Not my cup of tea, but Oly does/did full size polymer mags (not sure if single/double feed or single/double stack), because they have their ejector in the upper.  Oly is closing their doors at the end of the month - I wonder if anyone is picking up any of their stuff/designs.
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