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Page AR-15 » Rimfire and Pistol Calibers
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Posted: 11/19/2014 9:13:27 PM EDT
I am having issues with my new Black Dog Machine Xform mags.

I originally bought the Steel feedlips.  I was having some cycling issues which can be partly contributed to a bad collar which has now been fixed.

I bought some nylon feedlips hoping that would help as it was recommended that they work better than the steel.

Issue I am having is that the nose of the .22 rounds are not tilting into the correctly orientation.  I am either having the rounds nose dive into the feedramp or the nose of the rounds completely misses the chamber and jams up against the top of the barrel.

Anyone else having issues or know of a solution?
Link Posted: 11/19/2014 9:38:45 PM EDT
[#1]
what lower are you using? Or is it happening on multiple lowers?
Link Posted: 11/19/2014 9:48:03 PM EDT
[#2]
Anderson lower on the dedicated build.  Also tried my StagArms lower with the same issue.

I am almost confident that it is a magazine related issue since the last 5 rounds feeds perfectly.  Its the first 20 I have to get through.

If I push the top of the .22 rim backwards in the magazine, it projects the nose up more.  So when I open the bolt by hand, load the magazine and allow the bolt to go back into battery, the round will chamber fine.  if I just drop a mag in and rack the charging handle, I run into issues.  The majority of the rounds are nose diving into the feedramp.
Link Posted: 11/19/2014 9:48:16 PM EDT
[#3]
Also, what collar/bolt/barrel?
Link Posted: 11/19/2014 10:10:50 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Also, what collar/bolt/barrel?
View Quote


Specs are as follows:
Anderson lower
PSA LPK
Stag trigger with DPMS hammer
Black Dog machine Xform mags I have both nylon and steel lips at this point
Taccom pressure plug with standard carbine spring and buffer
PSA upper
Taccom lightweight aluminum barrel / Taccom collar
Taccom bolt kit
CMMG .22 dedicated CH with Strike Industries latch.

Also loading CCI minimags
Link Posted: 11/20/2014 9:39:29 AM EDT
[#5]
so you had a bad collar before? Can you describe that a little more?

If multiple lowers and mags have been tested, I find it hard to believe you have that many bad mags.
Link Posted: 11/20/2014 7:36:48 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
so you had a bad collar before? Can you describe that a little more?

If multiple lowers and mags have been tested, I find it hard to believe you have that many bad mags.
View Quote


Rail cuts on collar were slightly off.  I knew the bolt alignment was off initially due to the bolt not being able to move into battery when I hand drop a round into the chamber and close the bolt.  The rim of the round was not moving into the bolt face, rim not moving into the recess, but getting caught on the very front of the bolt..  I noticed also when the bolt was closing with a round in the bolt (base of the round in the bolt face and captured by the extractor), the round was not moving parallel to the chamber/bore axis even though half of the round was already in the chamber.  I initially thought the bolt face was off center, but was confirmed that rail cuts were out of spec which resulted in the entire bolt to not move into battery when loaded since the bolt was not aligned to the chamber.  So the bolt face was indeed off center, but not because it was cut wrong, it was because the whole bolt was off center.  I received a new collar so I know bolt alignment is now correctly and verified it as the bolt moves into battery with a round chambered.

Issue with my mags I have noticed:

Follower sticks sometimes
The tilt of the rounds change as I load more.  
They are pointed more upwards when fewer rounds are loaded.  The tip of the rounds are lower when loaded fully.  It cycles great when only ~5 rounds are left loaded with the nylon lips.  I tried one of the new steel feedlips sent to me that allowed me to load about ~10 rounds and they cycled fine, but anything more produced issues cycling.
When loaded fully, and I manually tip the rounds upwards, it will feed that single round as I maintain an open chamber to maintain the correct tilt in the round.

With this knowledge I concluded it is a mag issue.  If there was a bad lot of mags that were produced at the same time it is very possible considering I purchased them all of them at the same time.

I did read someone had to essentially break in the mags before they worked for him/her.
Link Posted: 11/21/2014 8:28:26 PM EDT
[#7]
I am coming up with the idea that possibly the collar's feedramp is not low enough.
Link Posted: 11/21/2014 9:51:22 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Rail cuts on collar were slightly off.  I knew the bolt alignment was off initially due to the bolt not being able to move into battery when I hand drop a round into the chamber and close the bolt.  The rim of the round was not moving into the bolt face, rim not moving into the recess, but getting caught on the very front of the bolt..  I noticed also when the bolt was closing with a round in the bolt (base of the round in the bolt face and captured by the extractor), the round was not moving parallel to the chamber/bore axis even though half of the round was already in the chamber.  I initially thought the bolt face was off center, but was confirmed that rail cuts were out of spec which resulted in the entire bolt to not move into battery when loaded since the bolt was not aligned to the chamber.  So the bolt face was indeed off center, but not because it was cut wrong, it was because the whole bolt was off center.  I received a new collar so I know bolt alignment is now correctly and verified it as the bolt moves into battery with a round chambered.

Issue with my mags I have noticed:



Follower sticks sometimes
The tilt of the rounds change as I load more.  
They are pointed more upwards when fewer rounds are loaded.  The tip of the rounds are lower when loaded fully.  It cycles great when only ~5 rounds are left loaded with the nylon lips.  I tried one of the new steel feedlips sent to me that allowed me to load about ~10 rounds and they cycled fine, but anything more produced issues cycling.
When loaded fully, and I manually tip the rounds upwards, it will feed that single round as I maintain an open chamber to maintain the correct tilt in the round.

With this knowledge I concluded it is a mag issue.  If there was a bad lot of mags that were produced at the same time it is very possible considering I purchased them all of them at the same time.

I did read someone had to essentially break in the mags before they worked for him/her.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
so you had a bad collar before? Can you describe that a little more?

If multiple lowers and mags have been tested, I find it hard to believe you have that many bad mags.


Rail cuts on collar were slightly off.  I knew the bolt alignment was off initially due to the bolt not being able to move into battery when I hand drop a round into the chamber and close the bolt.  The rim of the round was not moving into the bolt face, rim not moving into the recess, but getting caught on the very front of the bolt..  I noticed also when the bolt was closing with a round in the bolt (base of the round in the bolt face and captured by the extractor), the round was not moving parallel to the chamber/bore axis even though half of the round was already in the chamber.  I initially thought the bolt face was off center, but was confirmed that rail cuts were out of spec which resulted in the entire bolt to not move into battery when loaded since the bolt was not aligned to the chamber.  So the bolt face was indeed off center, but not because it was cut wrong, it was because the whole bolt was off center.  I received a new collar so I know bolt alignment is now correctly and verified it as the bolt moves into battery with a round chambered.

Issue with my mags I have noticed:



Follower sticks sometimes
The tilt of the rounds change as I load more.  
They are pointed more upwards when fewer rounds are loaded.  The tip of the rounds are lower when loaded fully.  It cycles great when only ~5 rounds are left loaded with the nylon lips.  I tried one of the new steel feedlips sent to me that allowed me to load about ~10 rounds and they cycled fine, but anything more produced issues cycling.
When loaded fully, and I manually tip the rounds upwards, it will feed that single round as I maintain an open chamber to maintain the correct tilt in the round.

With this knowledge I concluded it is a mag issue.  If there was a bad lot of mags that were produced at the same time it is very possible considering I purchased them all of them at the same time.

I did read someone had to essentially break in the mags before they worked for him/her.



if breaking in the magazines worked for someone, take a magazine apart and inspect the surfaces of the follower which bear against the walls of the magazine. smooth the edges with a scrap of fine sandpaper so it doesn't snag on anything going down or coming up. do the same with the inside body of the magazine. try it with one magazine and see if it makes a difference.
Link Posted: 11/22/2014 12:15:11 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



if breaking in the magazines worked for someone, take a magazine apart and inspect the surfaces of the follower which bear against the walls of the magazine. smooth the edges with a scrap of fine sandpaper so it doesn't snag on anything going down or coming up. do the same with the inside body of the magazine. try it with one magazine and see if it makes a difference.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
so you had a bad collar before? Can you describe that a little more?

If multiple lowers and mags have been tested, I find it hard to believe you have that many bad mags.


Rail cuts on collar were slightly off.  I knew the bolt alignment was off initially due to the bolt not being able to move into battery when I hand drop a round into the chamber and close the bolt.  The rim of the round was not moving into the bolt face, rim not moving into the recess, but getting caught on the very front of the bolt..  I noticed also when the bolt was closing with a round in the bolt (base of the round in the bolt face and captured by the extractor), the round was not moving parallel to the chamber/bore axis even though half of the round was already in the chamber.  I initially thought the bolt face was off center, but was confirmed that rail cuts were out of spec which resulted in the entire bolt to not move into battery when loaded since the bolt was not aligned to the chamber.  So the bolt face was indeed off center, but not because it was cut wrong, it was because the whole bolt was off center.  I received a new collar so I know bolt alignment is now correctly and verified it as the bolt moves into battery with a round chambered.

Issue with my mags I have noticed:



Follower sticks sometimes
The tilt of the rounds change as I load more.  
They are pointed more upwards when fewer rounds are loaded.  The tip of the rounds are lower when loaded fully.  It cycles great when only ~5 rounds are left loaded with the nylon lips.  I tried one of the new steel feedlips sent to me that allowed me to load about ~10 rounds and they cycled fine, but anything more produced issues cycling.
When loaded fully, and I manually tip the rounds upwards, it will feed that single round as I maintain an open chamber to maintain the correct tilt in the round.

With this knowledge I concluded it is a mag issue.  If there was a bad lot of mags that were produced at the same time it is very possible considering I purchased them all of them at the same time.

I did read someone had to essentially break in the mags before they worked for him/her.



if breaking in the magazines worked for someone, take a magazine apart and inspect the surfaces of the follower which bear against the walls of the magazine. smooth the edges with a scrap of fine sandpaper so it doesn't snag on anything going down or coming up. do the same with the inside body of the magazine. try it with one magazine and see if it makes a difference.


I did run the followers up the guide rails when I was installing the new feedlips and it didn't feel like it was binding anywhere.  I decided to scrap the .22 upper and I am just going to buy a complete upper.  I ruined a lot of hard to find .22 Minimags trying to trouble shoot this.  Having a quality complete upper will rule out the upper / upper components being the issue.  If I am still having issues, I can return back to the mag problem.

I tried a couple more times, but was having intermittent issues that seems like now it could be a multitude of issues.  This build seems to be extremely picky.  Like mentioned, I feel the rifle should be able to load the rounds despite the slight variation in bullet angle in the magazine.  The bullets are primarily jamming into the flat face just below the feedramp.  The bullets that do go into the chamber do not always allow the bolt to go into battery.  

So it could be a weak drive spring, mag spring tension causing the bolt to slow down, or possible the charging handle latch spring being to strong in combo with the aftermarket CH latch.  It is being a little too stressful at this point so I said screw it and  am just going to take the loss and pick up a Tactical Solutions AR-22 LT upper.  It has similar specs to what I was building, which was a light weight 22 AR.
Link Posted: 11/22/2014 1:46:42 AM EDT
[#10]
Upon review of the 2 collars I have, the feedramps have different shapes.

Explains the new feeding issues I am having.  It seems the new feedramp shape on the new collar is exacerbating the bullet tilt issue in the BDM magazines.
Link Posted: 11/22/2014 6:21:26 PM EDT
[#11]
I have four BDM 15rd mags, no issues whatever using three different STAG lowers.  BTW - BDM, lifetime warranty.

Link Posted: 11/22/2014 11:20:55 PM EDT
[#12]
Have you tried other 22 ammo?

I cannot run stingers in my dedicated AR builds using the Black Dogs, but everything else runs fine
Link Posted: 11/23/2014 1:15:47 AM EDT
[#13]
I did contact BDM and they replaced the steel feedlips already.  Still having the issues.  Rounds will tilt at different angles depending on how loaded the magazines are.

I contacted them again, but haven't heard from them yet.

I contacted Taccom as I had found some odd variations in a new collar they sent me that replaced an out of spec collar.  The variation may or may not have contributed to the issue.  I was advised to send in my upper to them.  I included 2 of my magazines with my upper so everything can be tested by them.  So Taccom is troubleshooting it now.

I did not try any other ammo as I typically like the buy the minimags since they are suppose to cycle semis pretty reliably.  Once I get my upper back I will do some more testing if I have issues.
Link Posted: 11/23/2014 9:30:56 AM EDT
[#14]
SilentDeath12886 - I tried various ammo in my JPNC-22 ded. upper and nothing jumped out at me to make me want to buy more of a specific brand, e.g., Fed 510 Champion, Wolf MT, SK Std+., Fed Target, Amer. Eagle 5022, etc.  All functioned flawlessly but accuracy 1.5-2" at best, consistent, very boring.  However, after reading the G&A Rimfire Annual on the JP Rifles JP-22R, I thought I would try the CCI Mini-Mags HP 0031 I had sitting on the shelf for many, many years.  Drastic improvement, .6-.75" easily.  So now I am on the hunt for a case of CCI Mini-Mags.
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