OK, I saw this at "Joe Bob's", seems that was the only place I could find a listing on it. Checked out the "Kies" company and put their listed address in Google Earth. That place showed up looking like an auto repair shop. Sort of reminds me of another AR maker that use to change names all the time and who's address was hard to track down.

Who knows the skinny on these guys? Seems its a new company and just showed up last fall. Did some searching and nothing much useful shows up on them. Odd, the only place I saw that sold them was Joe Bob's.

Any knowledge out there?

Did somebody hear a pin drop?

have no clue but there Billet lower & handguard look fantastic
not to mention ALL of their products are lifetime-guaranteed
ordered the Kies Billet Forearm to replace the standard handguards on a Spikes 5.45 upper
didnt get the optional end-cap as I wasnt sure if they fit on f-marked FSB uppers
will post pics once installed

Don't you mean crickets?

Their lower receivers look dumb and have no benefits over a forged lower. BTW Forged > Billet.

 

to each his own ...
yes you could go buy an ABCD (armalite, bushmaster, colt, dpms) etc forged-lower like millions of others, and go buy your YHM ff handguards like millions of others and what do you got.... an AR that looks like a million other ARs  
yes the Kies does come with lifetime warranty, and that warranty is void if they were to go out of business, but what have you got then .. an extremely rare, few of its kind (if any) AR builds
so if Kies did go oob no real loss

and this forged > billet...again too each his own.   both are sufficiently strong enough for an AR, billet usually have integral winter trigger guards, flared/extended magwells for those that like to grip the magwell etc... if thats your thing then billet is better, also billet is stiffer than forged which increases accuracy

btw: those handguards look nothing like those YHM handguards unless one squints and makes everything really blurry .. ok no not even that makes them look similar  

nvm
 

Looks to me like a pretty complete product line and the prices aren't really out of line either.
Looking at the items they offer, I don't see the Rip Off Theory. There are only so many ways
things can be made...
Dave / Spec

Exactly. I'd like to give the comp at try.
Dave N

Most of Kies' marketing is low-key and grass roots through forums/word of mouth. Kies has been sourcing suppliers, etc for a while but product just started getting churned out for the most part early this spring. They are a small operation at this time. Other dealers carry Kies but AFAIK we're the only eCommerce dealer. The other people who have picked up their product are smaller local dealers.

The uppers are assembled in-house and hand trued/lapped at Kies. The uppers aren't just re-branded, but assembled from a variety of parts from multiple suppliers. This is no different than many "big" companies that don't do their own machine work such as Spike's or Bushmaster.  Very few companies make BCG's, forge uppers/lowers, make springs, etc.



No offense but having both the YHM billet handguards & YHM in stock I really don't see where you are coming from regarding handguard ripoffs. The end-caps utilize the same thread as a YHM cap (unsure if others use it) so they will interchange, but otherwise they're way different. They mount completely different and one is an extrusion and one is billet.

Where did you hear YHM was doing their handguards? The timelines we've seen from YHM recently with demand much higher than supply is 4-16weeks depending on the item. The timeline for Kies' handguards from start to finish seemed to be 2-4 times faster. YHM could hypothetically be contract machining them for Kies, but I haven't seen or heard anything to indicate that. Kies is supposed to be coming out with Rifle length, but hopefully also Specter length as those have been one of the best sellers across the YHM Lightweight/Diamond handguard series for us.

There are only so many ways to make a railed hand guard. Most are going to be similar. The quality is the difference.
Dave N

Exactly....

I have no problem with them being new...after all, everyone was new at some point. Look at CMMG or some of the others that are "new" compared to someone like Smith or Colt. Everyone is new for a time. If they make a good product and have good service maybe they will grow like many others. Time will tell.... Meanwhile, I would like to see and hear more about their products. Maybe they can get some out to testers who can evaluate and report on them. A few samples out to us would be well spent advertising to get the word out.

I don't know a thing about Kries, but what I can say is don't judge a shop by its cover.  If you saw the shop Novak (as in Novak sights) works out of, you would be amazed.  It is an old cement block building hidden down a pine tree lined alley way.

Of course, Joe Bob, you do know that the fastest way to discredit the competition is to create
a controversy regarding products?

Kies has a website, and before anyone falls on their sword defending them, or attempting to
speak for them, how about letting the people who think they are a rip-off or are getting
supplied from who-knows-where, ask Kies what's up?

Not all AR suppliers new to the game spend all day here reading posts.

So let's let the OP that started all of this by asking {Who is really making the
"Kies MK1 rim fire upper"} ask the question directly of Kies.

Ted

I contacted them about testing and evaluation. It's the most effective way to get to know who they are and what they are doing. Could be a player if the product is quality. We will see.
Dave N

Humm, no Bolt Catch/Release, they don't mention working forward assist, .... look like just another simple conversion to me.   Maybe a well built one, but low on functionality.

To me the choices are still:
- CMMG - looks very promising but needs the new mags desperately.  I have an upper (well it's now a complete), if we could just get decent mags ...
- Catch 22 - should help all these std conversions, at least gives you bolt catch and release, but not Bolt Hold Open on Last Round.
- S&W 15-22 - still the only full function option with great Mags.

I'll keep waiting on the 2nd gen CMMG mags, and keep shooting my 15-22 in the meantime.

The mags needed a little tweaking after our testing. Just waiting on all the parts to come in. Should be the end of August/1st of September. The changes will make for a perfect, well functioning magazine.
That's why we test extensively.
Dave N

sent KIES an email late last night and was contacted today in regards to the endcap and fixed fsb's

"It should be just fine with any FSB."
Thanks
Travis

so ordered an endcap from JoeBobs and we shall see if it mates up on a Spikes 5.45 upper

Cricketts again

Its Crickets  Only one " T" Like in doughnuts theres only 1 "T"

My cricketts have 2 tt's hose jockey

Kies contacted me. I will be doing a test/evaluation/report on the Blast Master Linear Comp.
Dave N

That's an interesting comp. If you do pictures of it, make one that shows it's relative size please.

I will. I run a Levang on a couple SBR's now. This looks to be a step up.
Dave N

Thanks JoeBob
Do you happen to know the weight?
Dave N

Forgot to put that. Thanks for the reminder.

Kies 22 Cal Linear Comp=3.5oz
Kies 30 Cal Linear Comp=3.1oz

Thanks, looking forward to trying it out.
I wish the best to Kies. Problem is, without trying their product, no one knows. Kies could be the next Noveske, or they could be the next Hesse.
Dave N

Rgr that. Their products sell pretty well for us considering they're a new product. IMO, their gas blocks and linear comps are very nice with a good price point and stack up excellent against the competition. I believe more people are hesitant to purchase a "new" brand of upper than they are a linear comp or gas block which are relatively hard to mess up.  Their packaging is even better than the YHM or Rock River stuff we get, so that helps them out as well in terms of customer perception when receiving. Nothing irks me more than a multi million dollar well established company sending unmarked, unbarcoded baggies with parts in them. Even JoeBob Can figure out how to do barcode labeling for in-store POS sales .

KIES Billet forearm on a Spikes 5.45x39mm upper
the one thing the armorer did say was he couldnt guarantee the forearm wouldnt come loose as the -forearm retainer ring- clamps to the -barrel nut- by 4 small hex screws (2screws can be seen below).  hoping this wont be an issue

If that is the only thing securing the hand guard, I'm not confident it will hold up, especially with a vert grip and sling being torqued.
I can't tell from the pic but does the barrel nut teeth fit into the mount at all?
Dave N

no they do not
the barrel-nut has a small ring-groove cut into it, i dont know if the screws set into that groove or not as i had the handguard installed by a gunsmith, but from the pic im assuming thats what that ring is for
the gunsmith probably locktited the screws but ill try and remove one and see if the groove is beneath it

The groove is to hold the spring and clip for the Delta ring assembly.
Dave N

The Kies Comp is on the way. Report to follow.
Thanks Kies,
Dave N

Greetings from Kies Firearms:

We are not yet a sponsor here, and we just have a standard account at this time so that we can answer questions such as what have been asked here.

First of all, I would like to say that being a new Minnesota gun company, we understand the concerns and questions regarding if we are at all, or ever have been related to, or part of Hesse / Vulcan (or any of their other incarnations).

The answer to that is an emphatic NO.  We do not, never have had and never will have any relationship to them in any way at all.  Period.  End of story.

As for our location, we try to keep it as low key as possible there are no signs out front and there is not even a sign on the door, and yes we do lease commercial space from an auto shop.  It is tricky finding manufacturing zoned space here that is even somewhat reasonable in lease rates.  We are a separate business and no one who works here has ever been in the auto business.

To answer the OPs question as to the 22 upper, the only part of it you can get anywhere else is the bolt assembly (we cant say where as part of our agreements) and even that gets tuned up in our shop to give the best performance. This is not a re branded upper, this is not a conversion kit with a 223 barrel. The barrels are the proper bore and twist rate for 22LR.  These are serious rimfire uppers for rimfire enthusiasts.

As for manufacturing:
We specialize in research and design, prototyping our products, and the 1 at a time assembly and fitting of our products.
We do not build parts bins guns with bits and pieces from all over. We use 6 specific CNC shops to produce the vast majority of our parts.  These shops were chosen for their expertise in different types of manufacturing. To try to get the best skills in all types of fabrication under one roof is impossible.  So the decision was made to stick with what we do best which is what I stated above, and to use the best out there to do our production run machining.  By doing things this way we can make sure that our products are second to none.

Our Delta Rail:
Our billet forearms are not held on by only 4 set screw around the edge.  There are also 2 screws in the rear which clamp the collar to the main body of the forearm, and there are 2 anti rotation clamping screws in the sides of the main body which also hold it on.  We are yet to hear any complaints from any of the users out there of these rails.
If your gunsmith only used the 4 set screws, I would suggest finding a new gunsmith.


As far as dealers go,  Joebob carries a great line up and their customer service is second to none, so at this time we are very happy to have them as our primary E-tailer.

If anyone has any further questions, please email us through our website and we will be happy to answer them.  You can also call, but we don’t have a full time phone answering person here right now, so please leave a message and we will get back to you.

What steel is the conversion BCG made of?

The bolt is not a conversion piece it is a dedicated bolt for a dedicated barrel.
I can not remember off the top of my head the steel used, i will have to check in the office on monday. I will edit this post then.

Travis, I was doing a little studying on your web site. You look to have some very nice builds and reasonable prices to match. Hand lapped and trued receivers is a definite plus, though I've never tried it myself.
Barrels look great and again, reasonably priced in a variety of calibers.
I also like the caliber marked upper receivers. Nice touch.
CNC machined  lowers look great with some nice extras such as checkered front on the mag well.

Looks like we have a player here.
Dave N

Any testing done on your trigger assemblies? They look real nice
I do believe i will also be purchasing one of your gasblocks to try on my new build also, does Kies plan to do a clamp on style block also?

Hi guys, here is a link to a review by a couple of guys  on the trigger
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=53090

As for gas blocks we dont have a clamp on style yet, but we will have an adjustable quad rail gasblock finished and on the market in about 10 weeks or so, and this one will be clamp on style.

How are the keis triggers related to the Hogan triggers?

Ive held both in my hands, and if they arent manufactured by the same company, Ill eat my hat.

awesome, thats a worry off my mind

I would like to see a detailed review of the Kies 22 upper, including detailed strip-down of bolt assembly, accuracy and magazine feed, reliability issues, if any. I am curious what extra features that Kies uppers have that would allow them to compete w/ other more established brands such as CMMG, TacSol, Nordic Components etc. A side-by-side comparison w/ these other brands would be very interesting.
May be Kies could be convinced  to offer a test sample to guys like Shadowcop or Spec-op13 for detailed eval???

Great idea!

John, Dave S, Dave N, any chance you guy's have got the time?

Ted

Looks like I will be testing and reviewing the Kies AR .22LR upper.
Dave N