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Posted: 4/16/2017 7:14:05 PM EDT
[#1]
If you dont care for more than maybe 1.5-2 moa as it's best accuracy potential with good ammo, or you are shooting iron sights with regular ball ammo. It doesnt matter.
But if you are shooting magnified optics which gives you the ability to have more precision in aiming, then running a freefloated barrel is going to help make the most of good quality ammo. It is nothing for an AR to be able to print MOA or better when using a freefloated barrel along with good ammo and a decent scope. |
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Posted: 4/16/2017 7:16:27 PM EDT
[#2]
Generally lighter, especially compared to full rails
Adaptable/ customizable Actually easier to install if the nut doesn't need indexing If using irons, which drives some people crazy, offers a longer sight radius |
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Posted: 4/16/2017 7:25:47 PM EDT
[#3]
It's about barrel harmonics. Non-free float hand guards are in contact with the barrel which limits accuracy.
barrel harmonics |
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Posted: 4/16/2017 8:07:11 PM EDT
[#4]
I may be in the minority, but I don't care for them. I like the look, and simpleness of a pinned FSB and drop-in handguards. I can bolt all I need to a set of Magpul M-Lok MOE's, which is usually just a light, an angled or vert. fore grip, and a sling attachment point. I have all mine set up as "modern K.I.S.S." carbines and rifles with basic Magpul furniture, and either a set of fixed irons or a folding BUS with red dots, or low powered reflex scopes. I have built a few free floated uppers, but didn't care much for them after the fact, and sold the 300blk one, and converted the 5.56 one to drop in using a clamp on/set screw FSB and it 's been solid as a rock....it just won't be my SHTF option. Same goes with my 308 AR's. I prefer fixed FSB's and drop in for those too.
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Posted: 4/16/2017 8:07:14 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's about barrel harmonics. Non-free float hand guards are in contact with the barrel which limits accuracy. barrel harmonics But shouldn't the DD Omega rail provide the same advantage at a lot less hassle? Thanks, W |
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Posted: 4/16/2017 8:16:11 PM EDT
[#6]
Don't worry about free float rail for now.
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Posted: 4/16/2017 8:37:21 PM EDT
[#7]
All mine are drop in quads/fsb. All I like. To each his own.
I do not expect moa accuracy. Free float if you do. |
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Posted: 4/16/2017 8:47:48 PM EDT
[#8]
All of my curret builds, exept one, are free floated, and all of my future builds will be free float of some type. If you are building from the ground up free floats are no more difficult, in fact often a lot easier to install than standard handguards. If you are modifying an existing rifle with fixed front sight, then drop ins are probably easier.
Everyone has preferences. There are tons of options. That's why many refer to AR's as adult legos. It is your gun, your money, and the only person that has to be happy with it is you. And if you don't like it, you can always change it. |
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Posted: 4/16/2017 9:04:45 PM EDT
[#9]
You got all the info you need in this thread already, but I just wanted to add that you made a fine choice no matter what your goal may be. The DD Omega series has been around a long time now (as these things go), and it's still one of the best drop- in free-floats around, IMHO.
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Posted: 4/17/2017 7:35:59 AM EDT
[#10]
SO What?
Better accuracy, solid mount (no rattles or movement), no Delta ring, welded spring washer or end cap. FF is an advantage for accuracy just like a trigger system, better barrel or good optics. There are more advantages this negatives, to each there own as they say.. |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 7:38:57 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Howdy, new to AR's and besides them looking kinda cool and generally having multiple attachment points what is so cool about free floating hand guards? Now I may be wrong but I think the only attached between upper and barrel and do not touch anywhere else... right? Seems like a lot of hassle to install especially for newbies like me. I have opted for a DD Omega 7 that does not require modifications to the AR. SHould be plenty good for me but has me curious as to advantages the free float must have as most customs utilize this. Thanks, Whatrix The Omega 7 IS a free float handguard. |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 8:28:01 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I may be in the minority, but I don't care for them. I like the look, and simpleness of a pinned FSB and drop-in handguards. I can bolt all I need to a set of Magpul M-Lok MOE's, which is usually just a light, an angled or vert. fore grip, and a sling attachment point. I have all mine set up as "modern K.I.S.S." carbines and rifles with basic Magpul furniture, and either a set of fixed irons or a folding BUS with red dots, or low powered reflex scopes. I have built a few free floated uppers, but didn't care much for them after the fact, and sold the 300blk one, and converted the 5.56 one to drop in using a clamp on/set screw FSB and it 's been solid as a rock....it just won't be my SHTF option. Same goes with my 308 AR's. I prefer fixed FSB's and drop in for those too. 
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Posted: 4/18/2017 12:28:48 AM EDT
[#13]
My two cents OP is this: Ive never needed to see the need to free float, I think it's just the newest fad in a way. I don't like not being able to freely being able to effectively clean my barrel after running and gunning. I get really good accuracy pertaining to Man a Minute without going "free floating". I pretty much run XM855 and have never had an issue. YMMV I hope this helps. I don't think its a must.
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Posted: 4/18/2017 6:37:46 AM EDT
[#14]
Milspec front sight + scope = crap
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Posted: 4/18/2017 10:36:46 AM EDT
[#15]
You can't see the front sight/base with a 4 power or stronger scope. I've got a few built like that (GI style front sight/base with either straight 4X optic or a variable power optic like a 3X9) and don't know the front sight is there when looking through the scope.
If I really want to shoot faster and more accurately (to mess with the kids) I use the sling and the free float "tubes" with a sling will help me do it. Same for a bipod. The free float tube make a bipod easier to attach/remove and removes any effect of sitting on the bipod out there at the front of the tube from affecting the POI. I have bipods on a 20" HBAR clone, a 24" vARmint rifle and my only 18" build. Build, use/shoot what you like best. That's why so many companies can stay in business making so many different accessories for the AR15's. Accuracy seems to be relative to many people. I've seen guys who could just keep 5 rounds on a 1 lb. coffee can at 75 yds. declare their rifle was plenty accurate. Me, I like a rifle I could head shoot squirrels with at normal squirrel hunting distances (up close to 40 or 50 yds. in the woods.) Even that's not considered accurate by some people but squirrels aren't in the habit of letting you set up a bench, bean bags, etc. They tend to move some. |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 5:21:45 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can't see the front sight/base with a 4 power or stronger scope. I've got a few built like that (GI style front sight/base with either straight 4X optic or a variable power optic like a 3X9) and don't know the front sight is there when looking through the scope. If I really want to shoot faster and more accurately (to mess with the kids) I use the sling and the free float "tubes" with a sling will help me do it. Same for a bipod. The free float tube make a bipod easier to attach/remove and removes any effect of sitting on the bipod out there at the front of the tube from affecting the POI. I have bipods on a 20" HBAR clone, a 24" vARmint rifle and my only 18" build. Build, use/shoot what you like best. That's why so many companies can stay in business making so many different accessories for the AR15's. Accuracy seems to be relative to many people. I've seen guys who could just keep 5 rounds on a 1 lb. coffee can at 75 yds. declare their rifle was plenty accurate. Me, I like a rifle I could head shoot squirrels with at normal squirrel hunting distances (up close to 40 or 50 yds. in the woods.) Even that's not considered accurate by some people but squirrels aren't in the habit of letting you set up a bench, bean bags, etc. They tend to move some. Lessons learned over the years OP, it's far cheaper and easier in the long run to just do it right the first time. If you think this rifle may ever wind up with a scope on it just put the correct rail on. |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 8:27:53 PM EDT
[#17]
For me it's not all about accuracy. A FF rail helps maintain consistency. Laying prone with a tight sling or standing shooting without a sling I will maintain poi. A non free floated barrel will be nearly as accurate for all intents and purposes. I've read that they might be lagging about 0.5moa but the poi can change enough for a miss depending on how tight a sling is.
There's also a lot of info that shows non free floated barrels put more stress on the bolt when a sling is cranked down and can lead to premature failure. A poster above mentioned he didn't like that he couldn't clean under the handguards. I can understand that. I've humped through the Philippines, Hawaii, and jwtc and have sat under a poncho trying to bust mud from all sorts of gaps. That's why I like the vltor casv or the centurion quad rail. I can pop the lower rail off without any tools to clean while in the field. Not important for every day use but convenient non the less while hunting or on long canoe trips. |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 8:31:45 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's blocking some light transmission thought the scope. IMO why would I spend money on good glass only to obstruct it's veiw with a front sight post you're probably losing $100 worth of glass quality in your scopes image doing that. Yeah the scope will work behind the FSB but you're loosing a small amount of image quality and some light transmission and for no good reason the DD omega rail cost as much as a good free float handguard. 
The DD omega is a great rail. Lighter than a lot of more modern rails The assertion that the fsb is blocking light from a scope is pretty far fetched. |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 8:47:49 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Milspec front sight + scope = crap What set-up did you have problems with? |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 9:02:28 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually easier to install if the nut doesn't need indexing |
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Posted: 4/19/2017 3:56:42 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The DD omega is a great rail. Lighter than a lot of more modern rails The assertion that the fsb is blocking light from a scope is pretty far fetched. The assertion that the scopes image will not be degrated to some degree when it has an object in the center of it's FOV that it's zoomimg in on and has to see around/thru is far fetched. I payed good money for MK8 glass and I'm not jacking with the image quality by obstructing the scopes view. Besides the general tone the OP set in this thread with the "so what" attitude strikes me as though he knows what the benefits of modern non drop in rails are (common info) but doesn't want to displace the cost/effort involved in gaining such benefits and just wants to aggravate others who have said equipment by asking them to justify their purchases. If that's the side of the discussion you should choose to be on then that's your choice bro. |
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Posted: 4/19/2017 4:45:22 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was starting to think something like this may be it for extreme accuracy. But shouldn't the DD Omega rail provide the same advantage at a lot less hassle? Thanks, W |
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Posted: 4/19/2017 4:49:52 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm sure the DD rail is high quality, any parts I've ordered in the past from DD have been great. However pic rails are outdated and add unnecessary bulk, weight and make the handguard more combersome and less comfortable to grip. The assertion that the scopes image will not be degrated to some degree when it has an object in the center of it's FOV that it's zoomimg in on and has to see around/thru is far fetched. I payed good money for MK8 glass and I'm not jacking with the image quality by obstructing the scopes view. Besides the general tone the OP set in this thread with the "so what" attitude strikes me as though he knows what the benefits of modern non drop in rails are (common info) but doesn't want to displace the cost/effort involved in gaining such benefits and just wants to aggravate others who have said equipment by asking them to justify their purchases. If that's the side of the discussion you should choose to be on then that's your choice bro. |
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Posted: 4/19/2017 5:22:41 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did you choose to ignore the comment made above this post about the carbine length Omega rail being lighter than GI carbine handguards? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm sure the DD rail is high quality, any parts I've ordered in the past from DD have been great. However pic rails are outdated and add unnecessary bulk, weight and make the handguard more combersome and less comfortable to grip. The assertion that the scopes image will not be degrated to some degree when it has an object in the center of it's FOV that it's zoomimg in on and has to see around/thru is far fetched. I payed good money for MK8 glass and I'm not jacking with the image quality by obstructing the scopes view. Besides the general tone the OP set in this thread with the "so what" attitude strikes me as though he knows what the benefits of modern non drop in rails are (common info) but doesn't want to displace the cost/effort involved in gaining such benefits and just wants to aggravate others who have said equipment by asking them to justify their purchases. If that's the side of the discussion you should choose to be on then that's your choice bro. |
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Posted: 4/19/2017 6:16:44 AM EDT
[#25]
How much thinner and lighter would they be without the unnecessary pic rails?
I wouldn't debate the quality of any DD item but quad rails are outdated. Installing a modern FF rail is a two beer job that the OP is seemingly intimidated by. |
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Posted: 4/19/2017 6:29:51 AM EDT
[#26]
I occasionally get glare off the FSB on this setup when shooting into the sun.
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Posted: 4/19/2017 9:13:13 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For me it's not all about accuracy. A FF rail helps maintain consistency. Laying prone with a tight sling or standing shooting without a sling I will maintain poi. A non free floated barrel will be nearly as accurate for all intents and purposes. I've read that they might be lagging about 0.5moa but the poi can change enough for a miss depending on how tight a sling is. There's also a lot of info that shows non free floated barrels put more stress on the bolt when a sling is cranked down and can lead to premature failure. A poster above mentioned he didn't like that he couldn't clean under the handguards. I can understand that. I've humped through the Philippines, Hawaii, and jwtc and have sat under a poncho trying to bust mud from all sorts of gaps. That's why I like the vltor casv or the centurion quad rail. I can pop the lower rail off without any tools to clean while in the field. Not important for every day use but convenient non the less while hunting or on long canoe trips. Bottom line free floating adds flexibility and versatility for maintaining accuracy with very few if any disadvantages. One CAN shoot an AR accurately without a free float at long ranges, but it requires keeping pressure/interference off the barrel. That is easier said than done. |
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Posted: 4/19/2017 12:01:20 PM EDT
[#28]
the omega isn't especially light, anymore anyway. Check the PWD for rails that weigh much much less. There are many sub-6oz models to choose from...less if you're cool with carbon fiber.
What's the PWD you ask? The Parts Weights Database. Check the link in my sig. There's about 1200 rail systems in it currently, with more being added all the time. If you want to build a lightweight AR, it's the place to start. |
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Posted: 4/19/2017 2:53:43 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's blocking some light transmission thought the scope. IMO why would I spend money on good glass only to obstruct it's veiw with a front sight post you're probably losing $100 worth of glass quality in your scopes image doing that. Yeah the scope will work behind the FSB but you're loosing a small amount of image quality and some light transmission and for no good reason the DD omega rail cost as much as a good free float handguard and one could easily grind the front sight down into a low pro gas block. Lessons learned over the years OP, it's far cheaper and easier in the long run to just do it right the first time. If you think this rifle may ever wind up with a scope on it just put the correct rail on. |
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Posted: 4/19/2017 4:12:15 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How much thinner and lighter would they be without the unnecessary pic rails? I wouldn't debate the quality of any DD item but quad rails are outdated. Installing a modern FF rail is a two beer job that the OP is seemingly intimidated by. |
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Posted: 4/19/2017 5:15:06 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
..... However pic rails are outdated and add unnecessary bulk, weight ..... Besides the general tone the OP set in this thread with the "so what" attitude ... just wants to aggravate others ........ Re: Weight. This never crossed my mind. I just never liked the plastic as it's difficult to add options for slings etc. I'm not one to go overboard and definitely think basic clean AR better for my purposes but found the plastic less simple to adapt. W |
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Posted: 4/19/2017 6:26:19 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But shouldn't the DD Omega rail provide the same advantage at a lot less hassle? Almost all free-float configurations nowadays use a longer handguard and a low profile gas block hidden underneath. It's hard to find a barrel anymore which has the front sight, as so few people who assemble their own use such a configuration. In addition to accuracy improvement and less POI shift, the long free float handguard allows for modern shooting techniques, as well as weight savings & balance improvement by deleting the heavy FSB. It also limits exposure to a hot barrel. |
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Posted: 4/19/2017 8:55:47 PM EDT
[#33]
Being pretty noob myself, I have assembled about 4 builds now and I find the free float hand guards are about the easiest part of the install. I like the look of MOE better and it's a much smaller expense. But hey, that's why you make more than one upper. Save a rail then for a 18-20" barrel upper build. It's like buying your fi st gun, once you build one, you're going to want to build all kinds of wild schemes you come up with.
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Posted: 4/19/2017 9:14:59 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How much thinner and lighter would they be without the unnecessary pic rails? I wouldn't debate the quality of any DD item but quad rails are outdated. Installing a modern FF rail is a two beer job that the OP is seemingly intimidated by. Modular rails have their place. I have a 12" one on another build. For a drop in behind a fixed carbine FSB a modular rail offers nothing to me. |
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Posted: 4/19/2017 9:52:05 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How much thinner and lighter would they be without the unnecessary pic rails? I wouldn't debate the quality of any DD item but quad rails are outdated. |
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Posted: 4/20/2017 9:44:36 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I may be in the minority, but I don't care for them. I like the look, and simpleness of a pinned FSB and drop-in handguards. I can bolt all I need to a set of Magpul M-Lok MOE's, which is usually just a light, an angled or vert. fore grip, and a sling attachment point. I have all mine set up as "modern K.I.S.S." carbines and rifles with basic Magpul furniture, and either a set of fixed irons or a folding BUS with red dots, or low powered reflex scopes. I have built a few free floated uppers, but didn't care much for them after the fact, and sold the 300blk one, and converted the 5.56 one to drop in using a clamp on/set screw FSB and it 's been solid as a rock....it just won't be my SHTF option. Same goes with my 308 AR's. I prefer fixed FSB's and drop in for those too. Also nice they don't get so freaking cold like anything aluminum in the winter. My other two are floated but they don't have iron sights either. |
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Posted: 4/20/2017 11:02:49 AM EDT
[#37]
unless i wanted a bayonet lug, I would never but a FSB on an AR anymore. I like being able to swap/change/upgrade sights if I want too, or to put a silencer under the handguard, or to swap gas blocks. It's nice to be able to push the front sight further forward than a FSB allows as well.
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Posted: 5/19/2017 12:59:02 PM EDT
[#38]
Another fairly new to ARs (except for qualifying in the AF sometime last century).
Is this a free-float handguard (photos)? And if yes, is it sturdy enough for tight sling use in prone, sitting, or standing? I believe the 'shell' may be either carbon-fibre or hi-impact polymer. It was on a DPMS 20-inch upper. 
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Posted: 5/19/2017 2:58:21 PM EDT
[#39]
no, those hand guards are part of a semi-floating system. Attaching a sling to it and using the sling as a support mechanism while shooting = affecting bbl harmonics etc.
Free floating = no other gun parts touch the bbl assembly* beyond the bbl nut/extension/upper receiver 'union'. *includes bbl, gas block, muzzle device, and gas tube |
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Posted: 5/19/2017 4:34:09 PM EDT
[#40]
The primary benefit is that using a sling or gripping fair out on the rail won't cause tension on the barrel, which will improve accuracy.
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Posted: 5/21/2017 12:36:40 PM EDT
[#41]
Yep. It improves accuracy quite a bit if you take into account different shooting positions.
My current ranch carbine started out as a 6920 SOCOM and it saw up to 4MOA shift from prone, sitting, bipod, and resting on the rail. That's 8" at 200 yards, pretty typical coyote range and plenty enough to cause a miss. That's also with the heavy barrel that I thought wouldn't deflect that much. |
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Posted: 5/21/2017 3:16:44 PM EDT
[#42]
Originally FF hand guards were designed so the service rifle guys could squeese a bit more consistanancy out of their guns when they were shooting the prone 600 yard section of the match with a tight sling. Not really accuracy but to make it easier to shoot the gun well.
Idealy we are talking taking a gun that was shooting maybe 2 Moa and getting it down closer to 1 or 1.5MOA This is shooting iron sights . With a non match gun at distances out to 200 yards you are not going to see much results. I have found several guys going on about how their FF made their gun a tack driver but when you talk to them about it you find out when they took their stock over the counter gun and swapped it out to a FF they also put on a better barrel , trigger and started using better ammo. On the other hand if you have the money a FF isn't going to hurt performance and haveing a gun that has all the good stuff on it never hurts confidence |
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Posted: 5/21/2017 3:44:57 PM EDT
[#43]
The DD Omega is a great choice for those of us that like a pic rail and prefer a standard front sight base. Even though you may not need a free float hand guard, I figure it sure won't hurt anything so go for it.
I have DD Omegas on two of my 3 ARs and the only thing I use the rails for is a sling mounting point and a weapon light. So what- It looks nice, feels nice (with rail panels/covers), and is of reputable make and high quality. I have to add that pic rails are only 'outdated' if you care about the newest stuff being on your gun, since they serve exactly the same purpose and still perform it well. I know they aren't in vogue right now, but that's different from being obsolete. Edited for picture of evidence! - 
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Posted: 5/22/2017 11:05:29 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My two cents OP is this: Ive never needed to see the need to free float, I think it's just the newest fad in a way. I don't like not being able to freely being able to effectively clean my barrel after running and gunning. I get really good accuracy pertaining to Man a Minute without going "free floating". I pretty much run XM855 and have never had an issue. YMMV I hope this helps. I don't think its a must. For your application, it doesn't provide much in improvement. |
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Posted: 5/23/2017 6:14:59 PM EDT
[#45]
The DD Omega is already free floated, I have the 9" version for my midlength BCM BFH 16" rifle. I dont consider it "outdated" when I have all the space to mount accessories as needed without having to worry about special adapters or MLOK vs Keymod. Plus with the FSP I can mount a bayonet if I want to lol. It may be heavier than my BCM ELW 16" with Geissele MK8 MLOK forend but still lighter than the issued M16A4s and M4s I've carried, and they both shoot 1.5 - MOA with Wolf Gold so Im happy with my setups.
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Posted: 6/5/2017 1:55:17 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I may be in the minority, but I don't care for them. I like the look, and simpleness of a pinned FSB and drop-in handguards. I can bolt all I need to a set of Magpul M-Lok MOE's, which is usually just a light, an angled or vert. fore grip, and a sling attachment point. I have all mine set up as "modern K.I.S.S." carbines and rifles with basic Magpul furniture, and either a set of fixed irons or a folding BUS with red dots, or low powered reflex scopes. I have built a few free floated uppers, but didn't care much for them after the fact, and sold the 300blk one, and converted the 5.56 one to drop in using a clamp on/set screw FSB and it 's been solid as a rock....it just won't be my SHTF option. Same goes with my 308 AR's. I prefer fixed FSB's and drop in for those too. www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/573339_National_Match_Free_Floating_Barrel_Sleeve_and_A2_Front_Sight__Install___Review__PICS |
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Posted: 6/5/2017 3:55:24 PM EDT
[#47]
Not really a tough question... Show of hands, guys. Who has taken off a free-float tube to install a military-style handguard (EXCEPT for retro or appearance type builds)? (...crickets...)
There wouldn't be hundreds of different free float handguard tubes on the market for a couple of hundred bucks a shot if people weren't buying them, and (most) people wouldn't buy them if they didn't work. |
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Posted: 6/5/2017 4:00:15 PM EDT
[#48]
Freefloat tubes started, I believe, in match shooting where shooters were tightly slinging up and shifting the barrel. Then everyone started using them to isolate the barrel from pressure from hanging equipment on rails, or shooting off barricades etc. If you are just getting into shooting ARs don't worry about it
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Posted: 6/5/2017 5:20:52 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The primary benefit is that using a sling or gripping fair out on the rail won't cause tension on the barrel, which will improve accuracy. |
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Posted: 6/6/2017 3:49:58 AM EDT
[#50]
Adding an unnecessary variable (how much you're hand / sling is pushing/pulling on the bbl) to the barrel harmonics situation isn't going to help anything. Removing that variable makes things more consistent.
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