I was doing some informal testing one day and found that I can run XM193, XM855, Wolf "military classic" and there may have been a couple other brands though my LMT piston and Barrett piston rifles on the suppressed setting and they ran reliably. When I tried some Tula (I also have some of it stuffed in boxes from when ammo was hard to find) it would only run on the "standard" gas setting. On the suppressed setting, it wouldn't cycle reliably. I tried all of the above mentioned ammo in my LWRC M6A2-SPR and everything ran reliably except the Tula. Tula would not cycle that rifle properly. I did some digging and found a "torture test" involving 4 identical rifles, some Tula, XM193 and a couple others and they graphed the pressure plots. The tula had a much lower port pressure than the others. It looked as if it might be using a fairly fast burning powder, resulting in a pressure "spike" at ignition and then a more rapid pressure drop as the projectile traveled down the bore. That low port pressure seems to run in most/many rifles, but it didn't run my LWRC...or not at first. After a few thousand rounds went through the LWRC we noticed one day that it generally does run with Tula now. Previously it didn't run at all and now it will generally run a complete mag without issues (it still seems to have an occasional jam from time to time, but it's better than it was originally).

Thank you for the info.  This has most informative and helpful post.  Hard data on similar hardware is exactly what I was looking for.  Really wanted to get out this weekend and do some comparisons with different buffers.  40+ MPH winds all weekend prevented that.


BigBrakes

For what it's worth, I've got a Daniel Defense rifle (M4V1) with 2 range trips (about 400 rounds) with the exact same amount of wear on the charging handle.

Just like the previous poster, I have that same charging handle in multiple rifles. Some look worse than others, but several of them have wear lines like you show. I'd have to look at my LWRC and see if it's one of the ones showing wear. I don't know if it's a burr in the receiver that "helps" wear the handles, or if the various optics I have on the different rifles changes the way I grab/cycle the charging handle? It may be a combination of all of the above. Either way, I lube them when I have them out and none of them seem to be in danger of failing. I wouldn't worry too much about it. All of mine that show wear seem to wear to about that point and stay that way without really getting much worse. I have 2000+ rounds through several rifles using those charging handles.

My M6A3 DMR did not like teh tula. The very few times I have used it.

I meant to check the charging handle in my IC, I forgot but have not noticed anything. Just looked at the one in my SPR, no significant wear marks.

Very irritated at this point...

1 email to LWRC Tech Department 2.5 weeks ago.  Still no response to date.

3 phone calls to LWRC.  First call, transferred to voicemail, left message.  Never called back.  Waited a full week and I called them back.  Talked to Ed who stated he would be talking to "Rodney" and be calling and/or emailing me back before end of the week.  Never called or emailed back.  Even checked "Junk Mail" to verify I didn't miss it.  Called beginning of this week to follow up again.  It's late Wednesday and still nothing.

Not sure yet how I'm going to proceed.

BigBrakes

That's messed up.

Finally looks like I made some progress today.  I called again and got Ed back on the phone.  He apologized for the delays and promised action by the end of the day.  I finally did receive an email requesting specific information and was told that I would have to wait for them to verify my warranty status.  So that's where I am at this point.  I'll be standing by for their response.  

BigBrakes

In a short period of time, 4-5 top guys don't work there anymore. Seems like CS has stalled a bit. Makes me wonder.

That's disconcerting but I definitely don't want to go down that road.  I remember a couple months ago there was all kinds of talk on here about LWRC.  All I want is to know their stance on my issue.  It's taken FOREVER to get any type of response.  I'm thinking I'm at the point where I'll stop chasing them down over this issue.  Last thing I want is to ship them my rifle then wait months to get it back and be dealing with the same headache of chasing people down for answers.  

Only other time I've ever had to call a manufacturer about an issue with a firearm was a Ruger SR556 when they first came out.  I grabbed up the first one that hit the shelves and only issue was with the safety lever.  It would rotate past fire to what would be the auto position.  Ruger was aware of the issue.  I called them about it just to be safe and they said they wanted me to ship them the rifle so they could change out the safety lever.  I opted to do it myself.

Same approach I'm thinking I'll take here.  I'll swap around buffers and check on results.  The damn wind here has been horrible and completely prevented me from doing this.  I also found some more "cheap" ammo that I'd like to try.  I'm not saying the ammo is of cheap quality as I've never shot it before.  It is brass ammo.  It was just cheap in that I grabbed an entire case for $200.  It's CBC 5.56 FMJ 62gr.  It doesn't have the steel core like the 855 which is good cuz that stuff tears up my AR500 targets faster than anything else.  If this ammo end up a winner then I'll be picking up plenty more.

As soon as I either get somewhere with LWRC or do my own experimenting ill post here.  I'm really hoping LWRC just had a bad few weeks and have been busier with larger problems than my cheap ammo nit-picking.  But at least communicate with your customers.

BigBrakes

***I love the lower on this thing but definitely considering putting the upper on the EE by itself.***

I took out my M6IC SPR yesterday for some fun.  Had some Brown bear and Wolf lying around so I decided to see what would happen..  I had the same issue with the steel cased ammo as the OP.  Ran fine with the brass ammo I have.  Curious what the H1 buffer would do.

Get a lighter buffer and you should be gtg

That's the plan.  Got an extra H and carbine buffer in the bag to try out next chance I get to head to the range.

Please post the results.

From what I understand, get ahold of a guy named Rodney. He should hook you up.

Should have got a Sig516, mine eats everything I throw at it.

You should read all posts more carefully...I have 3 Sig 516s.  Iea Gen 1, 2ea Gen2s.  I also commented that they function fine with the ammo in question.  But thanks for the useful post new guy.

BigBrakes

op

fyi

i picked up 1000 rounds of tula in February from my local gun shop  
that Tula crap wont work in either of my A3 Augs and almost caused damage before i realized it was the under powered ammunition that was the culprit (i've never had one lssue with either of these guns, always ran flawlessly , etc., no matter what i ran through them.)
i haven't  tried running it in any other of my piston type guns i.e fn scar, fn fs2k, etc..  but im pretty sure it might cause problems
i never had any problems with wolf but this stuff is the worst
ill only run it in my old di bushmaster ar15, and i dont even like running it in that

still planning to get a lwrc ic...very soon,

imho i'd stop blaming lwrc : the pressure in that tula ammo has got to be way out of spec
maybe they put out a bad batch that you and i both got, or maybe all of it is bad

im thinking the quality of this steel case imported ammo has gotten worse in the last year or so

colt should really help and improve their c.s.  

I've never "blamed" LWRC or anyone else.  I was asking for similar experiences, ideas and was looking for LWRC's official stance on the issue.  I expressed frustration because the same lot of ammo does work just fine in every other 5.56/.223 rifle I have including DI and piston.  Part of my intent was also curiosity as to whether or not there were other ammo options that would give me issues.  I've clearly stated my intent to solve this myself by trying different buffers.  Range bags and rifles as well as different buffers and ammo selection are sitting ready to test.  Between horrible weather and not wanting to get a divorce for shooting on Mother's Day weekend, I haven't had a chance to do that yet.

It was a super busy week for me so I didn't get a chance to update my thread but I have my answer from LWRC and it left me exactly where I started.  But I'm still not blaming anyone nor have I.  So here's LWRC's stance/response....

Let's recap real quick first...I started with sending an email via their site asking for technical assistance.  I never heard back after more than a week.  I followed up with a second email and still no response.  I finally called and was given to Mr. Westerfield'as voicemail.  He never returned my call.  I waited a week and called back.  I was told that Ed would be talking to someone named Rodney and that I'd be called back.  During that phone call Ed indicated that he agreed with me and that there may be an issue and that in his opinion the rifle should function with the ammo.  He also indicated that I would most likely receive a shipping label to ship the firearm to them for eval.  Another week went by and I never heard back so I called them yet again.  Ed apologized and said he had forgotten about it.  He promised me a response by the end of the day.  I did receive an email from Ed asking for all the details of my rifle and was told it was to verify my warranty status.  This surprised me as I was not nor ever trying to make a warranty claim.  Plus I had already given them this information multiple times.  I was only looking for their technical advice and guidance.  I did comply and emailed them everything they asked for plus stated that I was only looking for their advice.  I also emailed my warranty confirmation from when I had registered on their site after I purchased the rifle.  

Now to bring us up to date...I received a voicemail back from Mr. Ed Westerfield approximately 4-5 days after I sent them the email response.  I must say that Ed has always been very pleasant, polite and professional.  In his voicemail Ed only stated that he had spoken with "someone" and that unfortunately they would not be honoring my warranty claim and that I should try other ammo.  At this point I had already moved on past seeking assistance from LWRC.  I'm not finding fault with LWRC for failing to fix my problem but this hasn't been quality customer service no matter anyone's opinion of my issue. There are already a dozen plus people who have completely missed my point on here by telling me I'm calling into question LWRC.  I'm not blaming anyone, I've never stated with any certainty that anything is wrong with the rifle.  I haven't said a single negative word about LWRC.  I haven't said that brand X Is better.  All I wanted to know was were others having similar experiences and how had they remedied if so.  I wanted to know LWRC's stance since their owners manual doesn't specify.  And I used the argument that the ammo worked fine in other rifles to explain why I was even discussing this to begin with. If the ammo had given me a single issue even once in any other weapon I wouldn't have pursued this at all.  But dealing with LWRC has been nothing but a pain in the ass!  It shouldn't take multiple emails and phone calls just to get a response.  They like many others on here ignored or missed my point.  I wasn't looking for them to spend money or resources "fixing" my "broken" rifle.  I didn't want a warranty claim filed.  I just wanted to discuss the problem and rule out any possible issues.  It became such a hassle chasing them down that it honestly got to the point that I didn't really care anymore and only wanted to work it out on my own.  But since I had opened this can of worms on here, I wanted to close it out.

***I forgot to add that in all my emails and phone calls plus my follow up email response to Ed I suggested and asked their opinion on my idea of swapping the buffer.  I wanted their take and also questioned if making such a swap would have an impact on warranty status in the future.  This was never addressed.

So to summarize my thoughts here...I'm hoping that the change of the buffer plus more breaking in allows this rifle to function with a broader range of ammo.  I love the look, feel, craftsmanship, features etc of this rifle and I want to have the confidence in it that I have in my other rifles.  I may have BRD bad but I'm not a "Ferrari" type of guy when it comes to my firearms.  I'm looking for full time and no matter what type function.  If I can't get there then I WILL be selling the rifle or upper.  I'm completely disappointed with LWRC and the lack of customer support I received.  I know my issue is very small in the grand scheme of things to LWRC but to be completely blown off is unacceptable to me.  That's my opinion.  I spend shit tons of hard earned money on this hobby and there's entirely to many quality options out there to spend my time and money where I'm not 100% satisfied.  When I bought this rifle I was on the fence between it and a Knights SR-15.  I'm definitely wishing I had chosen differently.

I'll still be trying out the other buffers and reporting back the results.  I also know Tulammo is cheap shit and it will never be ammo I purchase by choice.  I'm hoping I don't find other ammo that my IC is too picky for.

BigBrakes

Man, I took a cheap shot earlier, but I am truly sorry for this debacle. Hopefully you ave a functioning rifle sooner rather than later.

holding off buying a lwrc ic until i hear more ( I was about to pull the trigger on one tonight on gunbroker)
not liking what i'm hearing regarding customer service for such an expensive AR

your the customer
if you have an issue they need to at least respond in a timely manor

After putting another 150 rounds of  brass cased ammo through the rifle today I decided to test the steel cased ammo again(have only 250 rounds thru the rifle at this point). Used a Lancer, magpul gen 1 & a gen 2 mags.  To my surprise the rifle ran fine. Cycled with both the Wolf & Brown Bear.  Locked the bolt back on all three mags with both types of steel cased ammo.   I am thinking the rifles need to be broken in a little before they will work with this weaker ammo.  I am going to stick with the brass cased ammo.  Just nice to know the rifle can run with steel cased ammo in a pinch.

It's advised no break in required or needed.

FINALLY Ill have some shooting time this weekend!!!!  Worked all through the Memorial Day weekend so this one is a 4day.  Traveling to my favorite range to relax and unwind.  I have multiple types of ammo to test.

- Federal XM193
- Federal XM855
- PMC X-Tac 193
- CBC 62 grain non-steel core
- Hornady 55 grain Vmax
- the DREADED Tulammo that started this off

I'm taking a shit-ton of mags.

- Magpul Gen 2, 30 and 20 rounders
- Magpul Gen 3, 30 and 20 rounders
- Magpul 40 rounders
- Standard GI mags
- Surefire 60 round mag
- Some IWI Tavor mags
- Some freebie C-Products mags that I was given (never used this brand before)

I am taking the original H2 buffer, an H buffer and a carbine buffer.

I will report results and hopefully get some pics up before the weekend is over.

Stay tuned,
BigBrakes

Good luck sir, I hope it works out for you. Nothing sucks more than having a rifle you don't feel you can trust.

Just picked up a LWRC M6 IC  
haven't shot it yet but it looks excellent



.
I'll see what's up with this one for comparison  

4 hours on the range today.  Started right out the gate with the "H" buffer in vs the factory H2.....immediate success!

Traveling and visiting family this weekend so away from my computer.  I took tons of pics and will have them posted probably Sunday night when I'm back at home.  

But bottom line is that with the lighter buffer the rifle functioned the way it should have from the beginning.  Also glad it was 100% reliable with H buffer and didn't require the Carbine buffer I had on hand.  

More details and pics to come soon.

BigBrakes

Just got home so pictures as promised.  Its gonna be pic heavy but I figured that was OK for ARFCOM.

First off are some of the set-up.  The selection of ammo I had and a few other things I drug with me for the day.




Here are some of my homemade targets.  3/8" AR500 steel.  Still making a bunch more.  Wait till you see the condition later.  Put some wear on them.



Here is the rifle being set out with the different buffers.  I stated with the "H" buffer and never looked back.


f

Decided to jump straight into the Tulammo with the H buffer.  Im not patient plus since its what I ended with last session its what I wanted to start with.  Its a Magpul 40 round mag fully loaded with the Tulammo.





And approximately 45-60 seconds later this is a shot of the empty mag and chamber.  Wish I had someone else out there to film but at the same time, its nice to be alone at the range.



It was the same exact ammo, same exact mag.  Only difference was the H buffer.  I was worried I would have to drop down to the carbine buffer but I was thrilled the rifle ran exactly the way it should.  Accuracy was CRAZY good at 50 yards too for cheap shit ammo.  Again, my opinion, this is how it should have been day one.  
Good weather day and I was shooting off a sandbag.  But very satisified with this kind of accuracy at 50 yards.  Obviously there are a couple flyers but not many.  The two center targets are the only ones that were mine.  The ones behind were already on the board from other shooters.






More pics coming from the session.  


Standby

I'm happy to hear the buffer swap fixed your problem. Plans on keeping it now or still looking at possibly selling it?

After I shot several 20 round mags with a variety of the ammo I brought (all working perfect) I loaded up a 60 round surefire mag with a little bit of everything and then went to town.  Fired as fast as I could aiming only at my steel plate.  Accuracy not a factor at all.  Just trying to choke the rifle if possible.

Happy to say, no such luck.

***Before anyone asks about the hole/notch cut into my Surefire mag, its a mod I made a couple years ago when the new Gen2 Noveske lowers came out.  The Surefire mags wouldnt seat and lock in properly.  I fixed that.  Now the Surefire mag fits all my lowers.  I made mods to the mag, no way was I going to mod the lower.****





Here is what the targets looked like as I was loading up.  This is after firing the Tavor, my Sig 226 and 227 as well.  Destroyed the crappy hinge I had welded on the one target.  Will have to fix that and come up with a new design.





Here is just a variety of pics to finish up.






And lastly is the pile of brass I swept up.  I obviously missed some that went into the dirt and I picked up a few strays from the previous shooter.  If you see any .22 in the pile or steel cased pistol ammo, its not mine.  Everything else is.  

Good day of shooting.

Thanks for the support along the way!  It was definitely a frustrating experience.  Between the rifle not functioning properly and then not having any damn time to shoot!  Lets not forget the hassle of dealing with LWRC!  I don't care what anyone says....their customer service in my case was piss poor.  

BUT, this range session left a HUGE smile on my face.  Its what I expected the first day I went out.  I probably put another 300+ rounds through the LWRC IC and it was completely flawless.  No noticeable increase in recoil etc.  The H buffer will be in there permanently now.  

To answer your question about selling it, I'm definitely still open to offers to trade it.  I am 100% satisfied with it now and feel 100% confident in it, but I'm still wishing I had picked up a SR-15 instead.  I actually have the rifle on the EE in the trade section right now.  I guess that's part of the BRD!!!!  Always looking for something else.  Only pistol I would NEVER get rid of is the pictured 226 MK25.  I LOVE THAT THING and I'm crazy dangerous with it!  Also, will never let go of the Tavor.  That thing is sweet!  Anyone I let shoot it looks like a damn kid on Xmas getting EXACTLY what they asked for.  Its just fun.  Still waiting for the Geissele trigger for it.

Thanks again to all supporters through this issue and I do appreciate the other opinions as well.  If nothing else I absolutely proved that even shit Tulammo WILL fire 100% through this rifle!  

Time to clean my firearms and watch some Game of Thrones!!!!

I know how that is, always on the look out for the next thing. I've cycled through my fair share from a PTR91 to a Car and that I sold and 1911 and even a SCAR 16. The IC is on my radar now, since I have the Six8 and I'm wanting to keep piston parts commonality. Sadly, the only rifle I have left that I can sell or trade away is my 08/09 Daniel Defense and that won't be fetching me much these days, with the changes in peoples desires.

I wish you luck though in figuring out what you want to do with your IC.