Hello... Newbie here and looking forward to learn more about the AR platform , i will start by Telling you guys my story that lead to my disappointment with Sig Souer...

Former owner of a S W MP-15 that btw i think is an awesome rifle , had NO issues with this one at all but with the hype of the sig 516 patrol and its piston system I decided to sell my MP-15 to buy the Sig 516 , got the rifle on May 2011 and sat in my closet till September 2011 when i got some free time to go to the range on play with my optics, shot around 100 rds that day and went home and put the rifle away , i felt very comfortable not opening the rifle cuz the bolt looked clean so in the closet it went, 2 weeks later again got invited to go shooting with some friends to a new range that allowed rapid fire so i took the rifle to really "Test" it out, i noticed that on a slow pull of the trigger that i would not reset had to push the trigger forward to reset but during rapid fire was ok just that it seemed to kick more than my previews rifle (MP 15) so after we where done i told my buddy about the trigger problem that i was having... he said that it might by binding or that i was just a brake in issue, so i got home and opened the rifle up and found the following...

as soon that i opened the rifle this came out from where the trigger is mounted...
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u24/rubeneg123/GEDC0322.jpg

also the buffer was chewed up pretty bad... found a decent amount of metal filings in this area.
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u24/rubeneg123/IMAG0215.jpg

there is a nice dent that the cam has made in the upper...
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u24/rubeneg123/IMAG0288.jpg

the firing pin is worn around the edges...
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u24/rubeneg123/IMAG0220.jpg

at this point i decided to remove the trigger assy to see where the spring came from , i could not find any missing springs in there so i called Sig and they sent me a label to ship them the rifle...
the rifle was at my door in 5 days... i said to myself "wow that some good service" well... spoke to soon... nothing was replaced other than a disco spring and the mag catch and the gunswith coments where...

1 inspected the rifle
2 lubricated the carrier
3 adjusted the disco spring, it was installed incorrectly
4 replace the mag catch
5 test fired 40 rounds, had no malfunctions

so i e-mail then back , this time with pics and there answer was... '' i forward your e-mail to the gunsmith... waiting for his reply'' next i received an e-mail that left me speechless... here it is...

The gunsmith has determined that this is not a malfunction with the gun. We will take it in this time as a courtesy. In the future we recommend you only take the gun down to a basic field strip. If you are not an armorer, you do run the risk of damaging the gun. The disconnect spring can not leave the factory backwards or the rifle would not be able to pass its function test here at the factory. Also, it is a captive spring and can not just "come loose" in your gun. We can ensure the gun works when it leaves the factory. However, if you take the gun apart and are not familiar with where parts go and what way they go in, we can not ensure proper function of the gun. Below you will find a label to send the gun back for service.

I was like... WHAAAAT??? here is my reply...
please understand that when i bought this rifle it sat in my closet for about 4 months till i had time to go shooting with it , i will not lie to you i did do multiple rapid fires with it maybe 4 mags letting it cool down in between, after the shooting day with some friends (9/11/11) took the rifle apart and found the issues you saw in the pics as a matter of fact those are the pics at the time of the "field strip" or dis-assembly of the rifle when i found that loose spring inside the trigger assy( fell out) all bend up witch i am sure was causing the trigger to "stick" or "drag" it didn't seem to belong no where because there was nothing missing anywhere , i have never gone beyond more than a field strip on this rifle, the next thing that caught my attention was the amount of  metal filings that came of the buffer and the cam pin hitting the upper assy. I am in no way trying to "pull a leg" or something, i have treated this rifle the same as my other AR from Smith & Wesson MP15 (witch i sold to by yours) and never had any issues, no parts hitting others,no springs coming out of no where and no premature wear like i am seeing in this model, i just want my rifle to work perfectly. I thank you for helping me out and what i will do is as soon as i receive the rifle back from you i will go shooting and get some rounds on it... then field strip the rifle and see the results. I will drop this of at my local UPS branch ASAP. Thanks , so i made a detailed paper with pics of the concerns i had and sent it back to them... again. This time it took about 3 weeks to get it back... now here are the gunsmith comments after i got for the second time...
1 inspect the rifle
2 replace the disco spring
3 buffered the firing pin
4 The wear of the upper is normal
5 function tested with no malfunctions

he replaced the disco spring again for no apparent reason and the one that really got me is that the wear on the upper is normal , there are 2 parts of metal smacking each other and its normal ??? at this point im done with sig , i am in no way a gunsmith but im sure something is wrong here  , i have not included any names here out of respect , i would really like to hear from you guys in the site about this problem i have and if the upper wear is normal on these rifles , it seems that with only about 250 rds on this its ''chewing'' itself up pretty bad i had no issues like this with my MP15 that at this time i regret selling , please feel free to post your opinions.... Thanks

Time to look at Adams Arms, LMT, LaRue, LWRC, Black Rain, Noveske, PWS and a host of others....Rock River, Colt...etc..My Adams Arms piston, LWRC pistons, and my PWS Mk114 pistons have all been flawless...My LMT MRP CQB functioned flawless but was having major accuracy issues
Sorry to hear about your SIg...that would piss me off to no end...

i believe the problem is at the bolt assy , looks poorly machined... i was thinking of buying the LWRC bolt asyy and try it out...

I have come to the conclusion that Sig no longer makes quality firearms and hasn't for at least 5 years.  My understanding is they put some new person in charge that decided the way to more profitablilty is less quality

control.  Even though thier guns have turned to shit, people still buy them because of the name that used to mean a quality company.  No longer is that the case, in fact it is quite opposite.

quote ''Wear on the upper receiver from the ejection port cover is normal. Put a drop of CLP on the little plunger so it's not stiff. ''

Chuck... look at this pic real close, its not the wear on the cover that im worried about , look inside the upper... there is a red dot were the wear or dent is caused by the cam pin on the bolt assy hitting the upper on its way back after a shot. this is towards the back of the rifle right after the machined half moon inside the upper receiver thats there to clear such part. The trigger part does not worry me anymore and yes i might have installed it wrong when i took it apart but this rifle has never malfunctioned on me its just that all this premature wear for just under 250 rds is not normal to me.

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u24/rubeneg123/IMAG0288.jpg

can someone show me what a disco spring is??? sorry for my ignorance...

It is a small spring with one end that is slightly flared. It goes in a slot in the trigger plate and the disconnector will sit on that plate with a notch for the spring as well.  Both are held together by the trigger pin. The flared end goes INTO THE TRIGGER PLATE! If it is upside down I will cause problems and will not function correctly, nor can this spring simply fall out. It is held in a very tight space.

The wear that your little red arrow points to is completely normal. Some rifles wear more than others in that spot, but it will wear to a certain point and then stop, so don't worry about it. Removing the trigger group is not part of normal field stripping and cleaning. The Army doesn't let anyone other than a qualified unit armorer take the lower down. The buffer looks like it has a little more wear than I'm used to seeing on mine, but it could be the flash illuminating/highlighting it. No carrier tilt! lol..  The firing pin wear is normal. I think you'll have a great time shooting this rifle now that you've got all this out of your system. Sig handled your mistake with grace, fixing a problem they didn't cause, and even paid to ship it! Your problems are not enough of an issue to renounce sigs for life. They really do make well designed firearms, they've just had some QC issues the last couple years.

Billy... Thanks for the info , now im sure that Sig was not been truthful with me , the spring that fell out was NOT the spring on the trigger assy, when i removed the trigger assy the spring that you mentioned was there and never came out ,i took precautions for this not to happen , to date neither myself or Sig have been able to identify where this spring came from, to my opinion it was dropped by mistake in the trigger assy and left there, i guess its better to blame the owner than to accept a mistake or a faulty product on their part thats why im DONE with Sig.

I can post pics of my friends hand built AR from parts from Spikes Tactical and you would not find any wear on any parts so why is this rifle different? seems to me like 1300 bucks down the drain.

That doesn't mean much, my spikes has chewed up the buffer more then my DPMS. About as much as yours but less uniform... I don't care, parts will wear.

As for that spring, might have been an extra that fell in and was mucking up your action.

here is another pic without a flash , i wish i had taken this with all the metal filings in there...BTW this part was replaced and not noted in their paper work so im going to take a before and after pics...going shooting tomorrow.
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u24/rubeneg123/GEDC0326.jpg

You are 100% correct

Ron Cohen is the major source of the problem.  Ron fucked up Kimber...and is continuing his trainwreck career wrecking someone else.  

Minor things like cheap ass furniture from Israel, canted rails on rifles, Chinese made crappy optics, rainbow finishes, etc.  

I sold all of my Sigs with the exception of 2 West German made Sigs made long before Ron Cohen entered the industry.

the sad thing is seeing how some of the mid level managers have handled issues under Ron.  I basically consider Sig USA to be clueless.

H&K and FNH on the other hand are kicking butt.

I had a Sig556 a couple of years ago and Sig had an issue with the bolt hitting the upper receiver in the front.  This did not cause any malfunctions, but the accuracy suffered.  Now I know that the two systems are different, but it appears that they have the same problem.  Sig fix for the bolt hitting the upper was for them to grind down the area on the bolt that was hitting the upper.  

Didn't Sig hire the guy who drove Kimber into the ground with poor quality control?

ETA: I guess they did.

Sig Sauer has been having horrible QC issues for some time now. I was unaware of this and bought my first handgun, the p229. I got lucky and it was fine, no problems.

But I dont ever plan on buying new sig sauer products as long as their leadership continues to have qc issues.

crap sorry double post

Completely normal.
I also have cam pin wear in the same spot. Not to the extent you do but it is there. I can't get pics up right now as I'm not in Florida right now. I had an M16A2 when I was in Ft Jackson and if you saw the cam pin wear on that it would make you cry.

It seems like somehow a small bit of a spring got into your gun and caused some problems. Scheise happens

I can see how you want Sig to say they put that there (by mistake) but how do they know that??? I don't doubt you but consider their point, how would they know that???

I bought a 516 and so far it is flawless, no springs flying around inside.

I did strip the gun down before firing although i did not remove the trigger I looked in every part of the gun  to make sure there was no small something that found its way to where it did not belong.
I just assume Sig and every other maker can make a mistake and its my responsibility to make sure they did not screw up, just how i see it.

I do not see any wear your gun exhibits in my 516 and would be very unhappy if I did see what your pictures indicate and may feel the same way if I had.

In truth, I bought the 516 because so many people have said theirs is great, no problems. I might have held off if I read this report

I do hope you update us as you put more rounds through the gun and also hope you have past the teething problems and have a smoother time from now on


Wulfmann

Maddmax

Granted , Sig does make a bad gun from time to time just like all gun makers do. I have three (3) Sig 516s and all have been perfect as have the five other 516 owners I shoot with. Every gun maker has problems and hopfully yours will get taken care of. I have three Rock River LAR 8's in 308 that are great! A friend bought his first RR last month and has had nothing but problems with it. Shit happens. Everybody I know that buys a lot of guns and shoots a lot has had a problem with at least one gun they have bought over the years. Do you have any idea how many people bitch abouth Ford, Chevy and Toyota every year saying the whoile company and all their cars are shit? Just sell it or trade it in and get something else.

We call this attention seeking behavior, get more familiar with guns before your fingers type a check your brain can't cash.

Do you lubricate your buffer? Here's a photo of mine taken just 2 min ago. There's a light coat of Slip2000 on it. I'm sure the wear would look worse if I stripped the lube off of it. I have about 500 rds through it. There were metal filings in mine after the first firing as well. I assume it was from the cam pin wear. Haven't seen any shavings since. It's metal on metal wear. Like a car, there's a break in period and you should clean early on to get all those filings out.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/jeepnglock/Buffer200rds.jpg

WOW!!! now thats how it should look like... 500 rds??? your rifle definitely does not have the problem im having , look at mine... thats under 250 rds , the rings on mine carved by the bolt are 3-4mm deep ,if mine looked like yours i would be happy as hell. BTW yes i lube this area... looks dry because it was whipped with a cloth before the pic.

Quote: ''We call this attention seeking behavior, get more familiar with guns before your fingers type a check your brain can't cash.''
as stated before... im in no way a gunsmith or an AR expert... that is way i joined this site... to learn. sorry if i dont have the expertice that you might have or the deep pockets as well but a defective rifle is a defective rifle, we are all here because we love this sport , funny that it seems that it is you trying to seek attention.

This is a tech forum and his remark should probably be deleted, don't let that dissuade you from asking question that you have not found through a quick search. Plus your title will also attract smartass comments. A better title should have been, "Is this kind of wear to be expected?"...

Just trying to help you out

i had a rifle do the same wear pattern on the buffer, the end of the carrier assembly was machined rough and caused the damage. the company that had the issue replaced my buffer and carrier assmebly, no questions asked. just check the end of the carrier and you will be able to feel a roughness.

on the buffer getting marks on the edge, i feel that is from an out of spec lower. i have 3 Anvil Arms lowers and all have the chewed look on the outer edge of the buffer, all other AR15 lower i have, do not. some people say that is normal and that buffers are cheap, 3 out of 12 so in time the AA lowers will be sold off for something else. i'm no AR guru, but that drives me nuts to clean my rifle and see my Spikes buffers chewed up

your right on the money!!! i was going shooting today but instead i went to my friends house... he has built a few AR's and got to inspect the rifle closely , he stated that the bolt was poorly machined, it is still rough in many places including the end where it makes contact with the buffer... getting close, if i get this thing to work properly i would be a happy camper indeed.

Why the accuwedge? Does the little plunger that you can adjust not do its job for you?

Old pick I don't run it anymore. Haven't for a while now. Also this is not a Sig. It's an SR15 lower on a BEAR Elite upper.

I'll chime in with no issues or abnormal wear on my 516, flawless performance with about 1500 rounds through it.
I did take it apart and clean it prior to ever shooting it and found no issues except for lots of gooey grease and preservatives on everthing which I cleaned out.

I also just bought a Spikes 15LE middy, haven't shot it yet but have taken it apart and cleaned / lubed every part.

I hope you end up enjoying your SIG, it's really a great gun which I plan on keeping!

PS- if you haven't taken the piston out yet, you might want to pull it and put some antiseize on the plug threads after you clean it.....if you wait too long before you pull it, it'll be very hard to remove.

I'm either the luckiest AOB as a Sig customer or the OP had a bit of bad luck. I have 3 Sig 516's and all run flawlesly. I inspected all three after looking at this thread adn all have bolts that are as smooth as a babys ass. I then looked at two other 516's that shoot at my local range and the bolts and buffers in them are all well machined and run flawlessly. How can one have a bad bolt (Rough machine work) and the others I've looked at are in great shape. I checked the bolts and buffers carefully and see no rough machine marks or bad surfaces. Each of the 5 Sig 516's I looked at were smooth and all worked as expected and beyond. Each gun has a great fit and finish.  All are tight.

Yep more sear block BS

one more reason not to own one

Free

Hey guys... sorry again but when you say ''sear block'' what does that mean?

Never-mind... i found the answer.
   
    ''A sear block is part of a Colt AR15 lower reciever. Basically there is a solid portion of the lower just in front of the rear takedown pin. It would prevent you from using an auto-sear in that lower.''

I have found that the wear on the buffers like that is from a sharp edge or flash on the rear of the carrier, usually around the groove for the buffer detent.  Even a tiny bit of flash or burr there makes it tear up the buffer because it is slamming on it pretty hard when in use.  A little honing makes it stop.

ETA:duh..didn't read whole thread.  

About 1500 rounds through my 516 and no problems... not even one FTF or FTE.

OP, in your response to the Sig gunsmith you wrote "i have never gone beyond more than a field strip on this rifle..." but then you mention that you took apart the trigger assembly and might have installed it wrong.  I'm confused...

As someone else said, all rifle manufacturers will send out the occasional bad rifle, just like car companies will produce lemons from time to time.  I have an Audi A4 and a friend of mine wonders why I bought that car since his had numerous problems.  He swore off Audi forever...  I asked him what's more likely, that Audi produces terrible automobiles and through sheer blind luck I got THE ONE CAR that works properly (out of all Audi owners in the whole world) or that he simply got a lemon?

Let us know how the shoot went.

Would you mind posting close up clear pics of your bolt?

Sorry to hear this but not all 516s are bad, mine rab flawlessly 1k through it and I'm very happy with it. I also field stripped mine and cleaned all the factory grease and crap off it before shooting it for the first time. Also my bolt carrier is extremely smooth all around.

went to the range on Sunday , here are some pics...

the buffer was replaced by Sig and this is after 60 rds...
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u24/rubeneg123/IMAG0314.jpg

this one is after 180 rds...
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u24/rubeneg123/IMAG0318.jpg

here is the rear of the bolt...
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u24/rubeneg123/IMAG0319.jpg

I can't believe that I'm the first to say this but if this is such a POS rifle I'd be happy to take it off your hands so that you can move on to something else ;)

The bolt looks funny to me. May be just the light reflection but ny bolt carrires are smooth and blued all over. I have three and all are good and I've looked at 3 other and they are all fine.

I repeat, can you post pics of your entire bolt? We need to do a visual inspection on it...

I could have sworn reading a post in the past about a user (not sure if it was you) who came in complaining about a spring rattling around inside the receive, and then that user still decided to shoot that weapon at the range (which is a huge no no). Zero issues on my SIG 516 with over 600 rounds through it.

First thing, DON'T use a file on the back of that carrier unless you really know what you are doing and are extremely carefull.  Instead, get an arkansas stone and stone the surface of the bolt carrier that contacts the buffer.  The arkansas stone will just remove the high spots on the back of the carrier and won't remove the surrounding material.  There looks to be burrs at 8:00 and 2:00 positions from the pic you posted.  If you drag your fingernail, a guitar pick, etc across the rear surface of the bolt carrier, it will catch on any burrs and you will definitely feel them.

By the way, there is no way the rings worn into the buffer face are 2-4mm.  4mm is nearly the diameter of a 5.56mm bullet.

I am a new Sig 516 Patrol owner. I hurriedly mounted a Vortex Sparc, some ladders for the rails, a new Geissle 3 Gun trigger(self installed. Easy.), a new muzzle brake and took a 2 day tactical carbine course. First half of the first day spent sighting in BUIS and optics and check co witness. The remaining 1.5 days was intense rapid firing. 800 rounds of .223 and 200 rounds 9mm pistol in my side arm.
Pity your gun was built on a Friday. Mine was flawless and only malfunctioned when I was shooting on my off side(left for me) and twice an ejecting shell hit my hand which was in the wrong place at the time(offside prone 100yards engagement). NOT the fault of the carbine.Except for those two jams caused by USER ERROR, the Sig was 100% reliable. Wear is nil with only a slight browning of the CLP on the bolt and bolt carrier.

The Geisslle is suitable for tactical/combat being a hybrid 2 stage BTW. I LOVE it and shot well with it. Top qualifier with score of 100% at end of course. Almost half of our small class did not pass the qualifier.
I have to give a LOT of credit to the Sig516's reliability and the 3Gun trigger for my results.

I will be selling my Sig516 Patrol soon ONLY because I am building an ULTRA LIGHT WEIGHT  carbine.  I recommend this gun unless you want an ultra light weight(pencil barrel/carbon upper and lower etc).
The Sig will take a MUCH bigger beating than my Ultra Lightweight ever will. Thats something I will miss. It has an Extreme Gas Setting for very dirty sandy, muddy conditions BTW. I think the thing is ultra strong if its set up right from the factory. I didnt see any QC issues or corner cutting. I saw just the opposite...Magpul stock, Troy quad rail, sturdy gas block and flared rails on the bolt carrier to help stabilize it, decent BUIS, ambi mag release. I dont know why other than getting a lemon(it happens) no one would want to own this.

Moral. Take a flashlight and LOOK into your gun bits to see if there are any items amiss. Field strip right down to the extractor and clean and re oil with clp. I spray my triggers dry with Brake Clean and re grease and oil in all the key areas. Then I know its done correctly. See a Geissle diagram. It is basically the same lube for all triggers.  The gouging of the inner buffer tube might be solved by adjusting Sigs special upper receiver pre load post and spring. I am pretty sure the tension is adjustable. This is supposed to take the place of the little after market  6 dollar orange rubber insert and eliminate  upper receiver slop/roll.

Better Luck. You will be fine once you get one or two more bugs worked out.

Why not just build with the Adams Arms Evo Ultra Light Upper and keep the SIG 516 lower (as it's superior in build due to the integrated retention spring)? That way you will have two options and it's just a matter of seconds of swapping uppers!

Sorry. AA uppers and Sig lowers are not even CLOSE to meeting my needs. No no no no! I know EXACTLY what I want. The Sig was an impulse buy. I bought it know I could unload it fairly easily. It is VERY much a quality gun. Just too heavy for MY needs.I have no idea why we get near trolling on this subject. So we had a lemon. It happens.

I am almost finished with my  highly modified 100% ambi(even the charging handle) Bushy Carbon 15 with a .625 pencil barrel. I am going to have a SBR made out of at least one of them. I plan on getting a second one.

I want a second Bushy Carbon 15 ultra lightweight instead of the SIG. My courses are long, grueling, and intense. At age 55 I am looking for the MUCH lighter carbine. Dramatically lighter. The Bushy is IT. It DOES it for me. Sooo well balanced too. I LOVE holding it. There is just something mystic about it. Hard to explain.  Guys half my age were seriously hurting, even those in much better shape.
Humping around an extra three pounds feels like 100 at the end of ther day!

We all went to a MUCH wider one point sling like our instructor, but I have the secret weapon...the Carbon Bushy. I fraking love it. Sooo balanced and light. Geissle 3 gun trigger.. VERY.light weight MidWest Industries FDE rails
I have zero qualms about reliability of the Bushy.  None. It's functioning flawlessly with an Adams Arms LITE kit for .625" barrels.
Off topic!

back on topic: Install a ROLLER CAM in your BOTH bolt group for smoother operation. I did. I like it. I dont doubt that it helps.

I have been looking at that Carbon Bushmaster for some time.
I was leaning that way but bought a Keltech SU16CA (threaded barrel) and it weighs less with 20 rounds of ammo, site, sling etc that any of my other carbines unloaded and without any sites mounted.

I still think of the Bushy Car.

The movie "The Road" makes me want the absolute lightest carry weapon. I doubt at 62 i will leave on foot but being a guy i like to plan and that is half the fun of this stuff, plotting and planning for various scenarios.

Whatever gun you think you can carry with a Carbon or any extra light weight gun you can carry more ammo to that weight and that to me is important.

the right tool for the right job and our gun safes are tool boxes!!

Wulfmann

The wear on your buffer is normal, but the wear on the side of your bolt carrier is not.