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Posted: 4/14/2014 5:23:48 PM EDT
[#1]
Way to go ! I'll probably bite on a matched "lite" set. You should really offer the 45 degree safety option as well .
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Posted: 4/15/2014 8:26:21 AM EDT
[#2]
Is there a waiting list I can get on for this lower?
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Posted: 4/15/2014 10:17:49 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is there a waiting list I can get on for this lower? Yes sir, send me an E-Mail to: [email protected] and I will add you to the list! |
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Posted: 4/15/2014 2:39:42 PM EDT
[#4]
Any chance of an 80% option?
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Posted: 4/15/2014 2:54:41 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any chance of an 80% option? 0% Chance of an 80%. 
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Posted: 4/15/2014 3:08:21 PM EDT
[#6]
+1 on the selector mod for either a 45 or 60 degree selector lever. Looking forward to these, just hope they aren't too pricey.
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Posted: 4/15/2014 4:48:39 PM EDT
[#7]
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Posted: 4/15/2014 11:07:25 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
0% Chance of an 80%. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Any chance of an 80% option? 0% Chance of an 80%. 
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Posted: 4/16/2014 1:08:57 AM EDT
[#9]
Would this be as durable as a standard lower?
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Posted: 4/16/2014 1:34:39 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would this be as durable as a standard lower? No idea... We have done some testing on the standard BALIOS, and it was a bear to get broken. We snapped an M4 extension off of the end and the lower was just fine. We will most likely do some sort of testing and see what the results are. It should be plenty strong for shooting, running, gunning, but it's not a "Mil-Spec" part, its "2A-Spec."  
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Posted: 4/16/2014 7:32:30 AM EDT
[#11]
At least you admit it.
I'd bet it's strong enough for the average American sporter. I'm leaning towards the BALIOS though. That thing is sexy. Send me a few and I'll beat the hell out of them and let you know if/when they break.
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Posted: 4/16/2014 8:25:07 AM EDT
[#12]
that's crazy, it doesn't look like a billet lower to me. Billet lowers usually have sharp clunky edges.
That being said, its really cool. |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 11:28:28 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I cant wait to get one. The only thing sweeter would be if it had a third selector position for the new trigger Gieselle is coming out with NEw 3 position Geiselle trigger? First I have heard of that. Any more info? |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 11:49:06 AM EDT
[#14]
Dadgum, that sure is a purty looking spud gun.
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Posted: 4/16/2014 12:14:14 PM EDT
[#15]
The strength of the new lower should be the same as our standard Balios . We did not change sectional thickness in the area of failure during testing of the standard weight. Of course destructive testing is order
. When this project started we wanted our product to not look like a billet part.. That would be just a bit to easy and be just another billet lower.
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Posted: 4/16/2014 1:52:10 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
NEw 3 position Geiselle trigger? First I have heard of that. Any more info? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I cant wait to get one. The only thing sweeter would be if it had a third selector position for the new trigger Gieselle is coming out with NEw 3 position Geiselle trigger? First I have heard of that. Any more info? Are you referring to the Tricon? I might be wrong, but I don't think that one has a 3rd position. |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 2:51:33 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are you referring to the Tricon? I might be wrong, but I don't think that one has a 3rd position. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I cant wait to get one. The only thing sweeter would be if it had a third selector position for the new trigger Gieselle is coming out with NEw 3 position Geiselle trigger? First I have heard of that. Any more info? Are you referring to the Tricon? I might be wrong, but I don't think that one has a 3rd position. No, the G-man himself is considering a 3 position selector, Safe, 2-Stage, Light single stage, or think of something like Safe X SSA X SD-3G ETA: I apologize for the minor hijacking. |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 7:35:38 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
2A-Armament BALIOS-lite Billet lower This lower is geared towards those who are looking for weight savings, with the strength of 7075 aluminum. •3-D Machined from U.S.A. Certified 7075-T6 plate aluminum Quoted:
We are trying as best we can to get price down as low as possible. Obviously these have a lot of machine time in them, and that = $$$... The guys had a sit down today to hash out production improvements to save time on the machine without making the product look like a brick. In the interest of saving costs and machine center time.... I'm perplexed as to why you are starting with 7075-T6 plate when you could be working from a forged blank. Anderson Manufacturing and Smith and Wesson are both using a forged lower for rifle builds which have an integrated trigger guard of similar shape as the unit you are getting ready to bring to market: http://www.andersonrifles.com/product/closed-trigger-2235-56-ar15-a3-lower-receiver-these-do-not-have-rf85-markings/ 
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_786006_-1_787653_757785_757784_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y 
In addition to reduced mill time, you'd enjoy the benefit of the forging process vs a section of blank plate stock. I'd assume you could purchase the same forged blanks, maybe even blanks that have been EMD cut in the mag well, which I can only assume is the most troublesome area to mill. Heck, you could probably obtain them already finished to a fully functional AR15 lower without the final anodizing and then only have to perform you final weight reduction work. ...Just an interested potential customer who'd like to avoid paying more than I have to for the product! Wes |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 1:39:46 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In the interest of saving costs and machine center time.... I'm perplexed as to why you are starting with 7075-T6 plate when you could be working from a forged blank. Anderson Manufacturing and Smith and Wesson are both using a forged lower for rifle builds which have an integrated trigger guard of similar shape as the unit you are getting ready to bring to market: http://www.andersonrifles.com/product/closed-trigger-2235-56-ar15-a3-lower-receiver-these-do-not-have-rf85-markings/ http://www.andersonrifles.com/wp-content/uploads/CLOSED-TRIGGER-.2235.56-AR15-A3-LOWER-RECEIVER-THESE-DO-NOT-HAVE-RF85-MARKINGS.jpg http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_786006_-1_787653_757785_757784_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y http://www.alloutdoor.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/IMGP0800.jpg In addition to reduced mill time, you'd enjoy the benefit of the forging process vs a section of blank plate stock. I'd assume you could purchase the same forged blanks, maybe even blanks that have been EMD cut in the mag well, which I can only assume is the most troublesome area to mill. Heck, you could probably obtain them already finished to a fully functional AR15 lower without the final anodizing and then only have to perform you final weight reduction work. ...Just an interested potential customer who'd like to avoid paying more than I have to for the product! Wes Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
2A-Armament BALIOS-lite Billet lower This lower is geared towards those who are looking for weight savings, with the strength of 7075 aluminum. •3-D Machined from U.S.A. Certified 7075-T6 plate aluminum Quoted:
We are trying as best we can to get price down as low as possible. Obviously these have a lot of machine time in them, and that = $$$... The guys had a sit down today to hash out production improvements to save time on the machine without making the product look like a brick. In the interest of saving costs and machine center time.... I'm perplexed as to why you are starting with 7075-T6 plate when you could be working from a forged blank. Anderson Manufacturing and Smith and Wesson are both using a forged lower for rifle builds which have an integrated trigger guard of similar shape as the unit you are getting ready to bring to market: http://www.andersonrifles.com/product/closed-trigger-2235-56-ar15-a3-lower-receiver-these-do-not-have-rf85-markings/ http://www.andersonrifles.com/wp-content/uploads/CLOSED-TRIGGER-.2235.56-AR15-A3-LOWER-RECEIVER-THESE-DO-NOT-HAVE-RF85-MARKINGS.jpg http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_786006_-1_787653_757785_757784_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y http://www.alloutdoor.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/IMGP0800.jpg In addition to reduced mill time, you'd enjoy the benefit of the forging process vs a section of blank plate stock. I'd assume you could purchase the same forged blanks, maybe even blanks that have been EMD cut in the mag well, which I can only assume is the most troublesome area to mill. Heck, you could probably obtain them already finished to a fully functional AR15 lower without the final anodizing and then only have to perform you final weight reduction work. ...Just an interested potential customer who'd like to avoid paying more than I have to for the product! Wes Thanks Wes! Yes, we could do that, but to get it to the lightweight version, we would still have to surface the entire forging, and still have to cut the internals. All the while being dependent on the forge house to make a decent forging to start with. then we would have to fixture the forging, and they like to move around a bunch.... Not fun. the forged uppers we worked with last year had about a 10% rejection rate because of defects during the forge process. We can control the plate much better.
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Posted: 4/17/2014 1:55:31 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks Wes! Yes, we could do that, but to get it to the lightweight version, we would still have to surface the entire forging, and still have to cut the internals. All the while being dependent on the forge house to make a decent forging to start with. then we would have to fixture the forging, and they like to move around a bunch.... Not fun. the forged uppers we worked with last year had about a 10% rejection rate because of defects during the forge process. We can control the plate much better.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
2A-Armament BALIOS-lite Billet lower This lower is geared towards those who are looking for weight savings, with the strength of 7075 aluminum. •3-D Machined from U.S.A. Certified 7075-T6 plate aluminum Quoted:
We are trying as best we can to get price down as low as possible. Obviously these have a lot of machine time in them, and that = $$$... The guys had a sit down today to hash out production improvements to save time on the machine without making the product look like a brick. In the interest of saving costs and machine center time.... I'm perplexed as to why you are starting with 7075-T6 plate when you could be working from a forged blank. Anderson Manufacturing and Smith and Wesson are both using a forged lower for rifle builds which have an integrated trigger guard of similar shape as the unit you are getting ready to bring to market: http://www.andersonrifles.com/product/closed-trigger-2235-56-ar15-a3-lower-receiver-these-do-not-have-rf85-markings/ http://www.andersonrifles.com/wp-content/uploads/CLOSED-TRIGGER-.2235.56-AR15-A3-LOWER-RECEIVER-THESE-DO-NOT-HAVE-RF85-MARKINGS.jpg http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_786006_-1_787653_757785_757784_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y http://www.alloutdoor.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/IMGP0800.jpg In addition to reduced mill time, you'd enjoy the benefit of the forging process vs a section of blank plate stock. I'd assume you could purchase the same forged blanks, maybe even blanks that have been EMD cut in the mag well, which I can only assume is the most troublesome area to mill. Heck, you could probably obtain them already finished to a fully functional AR15 lower without the final anodizing and then only have to perform you final weight reduction work. ...Just an interested potential customer who'd like to avoid paying more than I have to for the product! Wes Thanks Wes! Yes, we could do that, but to get it to the lightweight version, we would still have to surface the entire forging, and still have to cut the internals. All the while being dependent on the forge house to make a decent forging to start with. then we would have to fixture the forging, and they like to move around a bunch.... Not fun. the forged uppers we worked with last year had about a 10% rejection rate because of defects during the forge process. We can control the plate much better.
Compared to starting with stock plate material, the forging should have less mill time required, even with surfacing the entire unit. As for fixturing... I can only assume you are going to have to fixture the plate at least twice. Once per side. I don't see how a forging would be any different, just a different fixture than plate. As for rejecting, yeah I can see that being an issue, but whats the cost/time difference between stock plate milling time vs a shaped forging that's already had significant portion of the excess material removed before it arrived at your shop? For the sake of keeping prices down, please kick the idea around with the powers that be to make sure working from stock plate vs a formed forging is really going to be the best option. Wes |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 8:14:58 AM EDT
[#21]
 Ugh.
The lower looks great, and from what I can tell you guys know what your doing without all the "advice". |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 8:43:49 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ugh.
The lower looks great, and from what I can tell you guys know what your doing without all the "advice".
I just want to make sure they look at all their options. I suspect that the mill time.mentioned by them means a price tag north of $250, maybe even north of $300. We shall see. Wes |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 10:53:46 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just want to make sure they look at all their options. I suspect that the mill time.mentioned by them means a price tag north of $250, maybe even north of $300. We shall see. Wes Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ugh.
The lower looks great, and from what I can tell you guys know what your doing without all the "advice".
I just want to make sure they look at all their options. I suspect that the mill time.mentioned by them means a price tag north of $250, maybe even north of $300. We shall see. Wes Wes: With all due respect TZLVredmist is the "powers to be" 
As far as starting with a forging. I can assure you that is something that we have looked at extensively. While you only see positives there are some draw backs that you are over looking. If you think proper work holding on a billet and a forging are even similar you are sadly mistaken my friend. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 12:27:10 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wes: With all due respect TZLVredmist is the "powers to be"
As far as starting with a forging. I can assure you that is something that we have looked at extensively. While you only see positives there are some draw backs that you are over looking. If you think proper work holding on a billet and a forging are even similar you are sadly mistaken my friend. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ugh.
The lower looks great, and from what I can tell you guys know what your doing without all the "advice".
I just want to make sure they look at all their options. I suspect that the mill time.mentioned by them means a price tag north of $250, maybe even north of $300. We shall see. Wes Wes: With all due respect TZLVredmist is the "powers to be"
As far as starting with a forging. I can assure you that is something that we have looked at extensively. While you only see positives there are some draw backs that you are over looking. If you think proper work holding on a billet and a forging are even similar you are sadly mistaken my friend. Fair enough. Out of curiosity what brand and model CNC centers are you using for the mill work? I've always enjoyed working with Haas equipment. Wes |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 12:48:14 PM EDT
[#25]
We are cutting these on a Makino cell with a 24 pallet MMC track changer, and two Makino A51NX Horizontals.
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Posted: 4/17/2014 2:09:46 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We are cutting these on a Makino cell with a 24 pallet MMC track changer, and two Makino A51NX Horizontals. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-u7fTEs0y-mI/U0LVVh4ybwI/AAAAAAAAA1Y/gP406r-lWDk/w1280-h853-no/IMG_3342.JPG https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-3vuXfePriF4/U0LVWFQAgoI/AAAAAAAAA1g/BEbLZHCFUFI/w1280-h853-no/IMG_3343.JPG https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-mcoQy2jZxpU/U0LVRh24C4I/AAAAAAAAA0o/AM5R1bcY8Bo/w1280-h853-no/IMG_3332.JPG Photoshopped - I can tell by the pixels.
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Posted: 4/17/2014 2:36:54 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We are cutting these on a Makino cell with a 24 pallet MMC track changer, and two Makino A51NX Horizontals. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-u7fTEs0y-mI/U0LVVh4ybwI/AAAAAAAAA1Y/gP406r-lWDk/w1280-h853-no/IMG_3342.JPG https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-3vuXfePriF4/U0LVWFQAgoI/AAAAAAAAA1g/BEbLZHCFUFI/w1280-h853-no/IMG_3343.JPG https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-mcoQy2jZxpU/U0LVRh24C4I/AAAAAAAAA0o/AM5R1bcY8Bo/w1280-h853-no/IMG_3332.JPG An outstanding setup you have there fellas! I always enjoy seeing a shop that keeps things clean and orderly. And what a tease with the blurred/pixelated work bench counters! Thanks for speaking with your customers about your shop! Wes |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 2:50:05 PM EDT
[#28]
Looks to clean and I don't see anyone working on my new upper and lower??
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Posted: 4/17/2014 4:25:59 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks to clean and I don't see anyone working on my new upper and lower?? We worked a whole bunch on the upper today.
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Posted: 4/17/2014 4:32:25 PM EDT
[#30]
It's totally going to be worth sleeping on the couch when I bring home a lite set. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 5:15:38 PM EDT
[#31]
Dammit...
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Posted: 4/17/2014 6:23:31 PM EDT
[#32]
Bravo Ryan! Fantastic looking stuff
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Posted: 4/17/2014 6:28:28 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We worked a whole bunch on the upper today.
https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1.0-9/10156024_724132260940939_713494549142484790_n.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Looks to clean and I don't see anyone working on my new upper and lower?? We worked a whole bunch on the upper today.
https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1.0-9/10156024_724132260940939_713494549142484790_n.jpg Amazing. I know I might be being a little bit obscure - but I've gotta say it again - H. R. Giger would be proud of these receivers, I think*. I've been thinking of doing a project combining my airbrushing with a gun-refinishing project, but I've been uninterested doing fancy camouflage patterns or tacky "graffiti" type work - but I may have to think about doing a "biomechanoid" AR build... ~Augee * for those that are unfamiliar, Giger is the Swiss surrealist responsible for the original ALIEN designs 
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Posted: 4/17/2014 7:15:33 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We worked a whole bunch on the upper today.
https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1.0-9/10156024_724132260940939_713494549142484790_n.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Looks to clean and I don't see anyone working on my new upper and lower?? We worked a whole bunch on the upper today.
https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1.0-9/10156024_724132260940939_713494549142484790_n.jpg It is 1913 right now, and I think I sent you an email around 1910hrs. You just answered my questions regarding the upper half. Now I just need to figure out whether or not I can wait for these receivers for this 18" WOA barrel and VLTOR A5 I have sitting here in front of me. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 8:18:54 PM EDT
[#35]
Whoa! You have my interest.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We worked a whole bunch on the upper today.
https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1.0-9/10156024_724132260940939_713494549142484790_n.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Looks to clean and I don't see anyone working on my new upper and lower?? We worked a whole bunch on the upper today.
https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1.0-9/10156024_724132260940939_713494549142484790_n.jpg |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 9:27:02 PM EDT
[#36]
I'm interested in seeing the transition toward the threads. Assuming it will be standard thickness there?
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Posted: 4/17/2014 9:49:28 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We worked a whole bunch on the upper today.
https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1.0-9/10156024_724132260940939_713494549142484790_n.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Looks to clean and I don't see anyone working on my new upper and lower?? We worked a whole bunch on the upper today.
https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1.0-9/10156024_724132260940939_713494549142484790_n.jpg Those machines are beautiful, but that upper is phenomenal!! I think watching those machines cut out one of those uppers would be mesmerizing. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 10:04:58 PM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 4/17/2014 11:54:28 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryYou could run one of our standard BALIOS uppers, on a BALIOS-lite lower.
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Posted: 4/18/2014 12:13:17 AM EDT
[#40]
that's a pretty slick design
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Posted: 4/18/2014 2:49:09 AM EDT
[#41]
How long before we know a price? I need to make sure I have enough funds for this and about a week stay at a hotel after I'm kicked out of the house
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Posted: 4/18/2014 8:02:27 PM EDT
[#42]
End of this month on pricing.
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Posted: 4/19/2014 9:11:07 AM EDT
[#43]
Looks very nice.
Have you guys given any thought to doing a magnesium run of the lite versions? They may actually float
ETA: Magnesium alloy is supposed to be 35% lighter than aluminum. Forged Lower: 8.5 oz Your Lite Lower: 6.5 oz Your Lite Lower in Magnesium: 4.25 oz (estimated 35% savings off 6.5 oz, 50% compared to normal forged lower) |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 11:18:34 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks like an H. R. Giger design. Pretty cool. ~Augee |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 12:02:29 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks very nice. Have you guys given any thought to doing a magnesium run of the lite versions? They may actually float
ETA: Magnesium alloy is supposed to be 35% lighter than aluminum. Forged Lower: 8.5 oz Your Lite Lower: 6.5 oz Your Lite Lower in Magnesium: 4.25 oz (estimated 35% savings off 6.5 oz, 50% compared to normal forged lower) We changed the material properties in Soliworks in the lite model to magnesium, and it said total weight would be 3.5oz... 
I think it would be a part that you would have to use for recreational shooting, and not some of the run and gun stuff though. However we have ideas to make that work.
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Posted: 4/19/2014 12:34:02 PM EDT
[#46]
, yes please
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Posted: 4/19/2014 1:03:47 PM EDT
[#47]
And so born will be the Ultra Lite.
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Posted: 4/19/2014 4:30:38 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We changed the material properties in Soliworks in the lite model to magnesium, and it said total weight would be 3.5oz...
I think it would be a part that you would have to use for recreational shooting, and not some of the run and gun stuff though. However we have ideas to make that work. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Looks very nice. Have you guys given any thought to doing a magnesium run of the lite versions? They may actually float
ETA: Magnesium alloy is supposed to be 35% lighter than aluminum. Forged Lower: 8.5 oz Your Lite Lower: 6.5 oz Your Lite Lower in Magnesium: 4.25 oz (estimated 35% savings off 6.5 oz, 50% compared to normal forged lower) We changed the material properties in Soliworks in the lite model to magnesium, and it said total weight would be 3.5oz...
I think it would be a part that you would have to use for recreational shooting, and not some of the run and gun stuff though. However we have ideas to make that work. What alloy did you evaluate? There are some pretty impressive options available to the racing world for motorcycles and cars. When I saw your top rail on that upper, I did contemplate if the part would be stronger if you milled the excess material out of the underside instead of cutting from the top side. You all probably already modeled it in a fatigue strength analysis modeling program. If you haven't, it might be worth the effort. Wes |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 5:49:30 PM EDT
[#49]
I dont know if anyone already mentioned this but the area behind the triggerguard, ie the palm swell area looks uncomfortable. Are my observations unfounded?
Other than that...that is is a seriously impressive product guys and while it is just "another" lower...man...its not lol. Well done. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 6:38:40 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I dont know if anyone already mentioned this but the area behind the triggerguard, ie the palm swell area looks uncomfortable. Are my observations unfounded? Other than that...that is is a seriously impressive product guys and while it is just "another" lower...man...its not lol. Well done. That's going to be interpretive, nobody here at the shop thought it was uncomfortable, but we understand it may be for some. If it proves to be a huge issue, we will add the material back in, or make some other change.
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