New Kit Incoming XM16E1 - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - New Kit Incoming XM16E1 (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 5/21/2017 2:53:29 PM EDT

[#1]

Quote History

Quoted:I think the Marine Corps has used stenciled rack numbers.

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Maybe that's where it comes from. I just took a look at my old Basic Training video where my company was at the range, just to confirm that 30 years hadn't shaded my memory improperly, and the video confirmed that there were no stencils on any of the rifles.

What was 44E? I had thought about using my MOS (31Mike) as my user name, but obviously didn't. I do use it elsewhere though.

Posted: 5/21/2017 2:54:55 PM EDT

[#2]

Quote History

Quoted:
In case your interested, Braceman has an original XM16-E1 magwell that he spliced with an the back half of an 80% lower. This would make your build about as close to an original as you can get. If your interested, just reply to this post.

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I actually probably would have jumped on that, had I not just bought one from NDS (and had him engrave it for me).

Posted: 5/21/2017 3:07:40 PM EDT

[#3]

Quote History

Quoted:
Maybe that's where it comes from. I just took a look at my old Basic Training video where my company was at the range, just to confirm that 30 years hadn't shaded my memory improperly, and the video confirmed that there were no stencils on any of the rifles.

What was 44E? I had thought about using my MOS (31Mike) as my user name, but obviously didn't. I do use it elsewhere though.

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MOS 44E was machinist. In the years since I last played soldier Uncle has combined 44E with 44B (metal worker/welder) into a single field, MOS 91E Allied Trades Specialist.

Posted: 5/21/2017 3:53:07 PM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:

Exactly, I couldn't think of the name of the tape, but that's it exactly. Does anyone have any memories of the stenciled numbers on the side of the stock?

When I got my parts kit a few years ago, there was a yellow number stenciled on the stock but I removed it because it just wasn't 'authentic' (to me and my experience).

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Annapolis, mid-late 80's. I had 100 A1s and they were stenciled on the side of the stock. No idea if things were different in the fleet, though. I was a small arms Gunner and never rode anything bigger than 108'.

Posted: 5/21/2017 7:47:36 PM EDT

[#5]

I contacted Braceman about his rewelded XM16E1.

Thanks for the heads up.

Posted: 5/21/2017 7:54:45 PM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:
I contacted Braceman about his rewelded XM16E1.

Thanks for the heads up.

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Definitely interesting. I look forward to seeing it on the rifle if you get it.

Having an original mag well, welded onto an 80% rear, was something I hadn't even imagined. I'll be wanting an A1 lower sometime within the next couple of months, so I'd definitely be interested in that for the A1, it anyone has one for sale. I'll be keeping my eyes open for it.

Posted: 5/21/2017 8:46:27 PM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:
I contacted Braceman about his rewelded XM16E1.

Thanks for the heads up.

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Your welcome. That's a good set of parts that you have and it would be good to see you make it as original as you can. May be a little more costly but those XM16E1 magwells, and any other intact M16 magwells are getting hard to find.

Good luck on your restoration.

Posted: 5/21/2017 10:35:47 PM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:

I think the Marine Corps has used stenciled rack numbers.

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Every rifle not in the vacuum sealed bag in the Marine Corps I ever saw had a stencil on the buttstock. When I was in the Guard never remember seeing one stenciled.

Posted: 5/21/2017 10:57:21 PM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:

Every rifle not in the vacuum sealed bag in the Marine Corps I ever saw had a stencil on the buttstock. When I was in the Guard never remember seeing one stenciled.

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Maybe it's a Navy/Marine thing? Though I asked a couple of Marines that I know, and they'd never seen any rifles with stencil's on them. So who knows.

Posted: 5/22/2017 1:25:40 PM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:

I know a lot of people like the stencil on the stock, but none of the units I was in ever did that and for the time that I was in the Army, I never saw any others with numbers stenciled on the stock. Of course, I'm just limited to my own experience but all of my rifles, had a rack number behind the charging handle.

What is anyone else's experience on this issue?

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I took the stencil off on several stocks for rifles that I was restoring. But then it dawned on me that I was erasing a piece of history so I stopped doing it.

Posted: 5/22/2017 1:36:52 PM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:I took the stencil off on several stocks for rifles that I was restoring. But then it dawned on me that I was erasing a piece of history so I stopped doing it.

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I can understand that, to me though, it's a clerical thing. Like having a piece of tape behind the charging handle. Strictly there for ease of identification by the armorer in the Arms room, and to me, I'm not sure that a stencil on the side of the stock would be all that efficient but since it's apparently done (or was), I'll assume that it worked well enough for the purpose of those that did it.

I'd just never seen it in my time, while I was in. But I see it on a lot of parts kit clones. So I was curious as to whether this was a typical thing, and my experience was out of the norm, or vice-versa. For me, I want the rifle to look like it did when I was carrying one 'for real'. So that means no stencils.

Posted: 5/22/2017 4:14:37 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
I can understand that, to me though, it's a clerical thing. Like having a piece of tape behind the charging handle. Strictly there for ease of identification by the armorer in the Arms room, and to me, I'm not sure that a stencil on the side of the stock would be all that efficient but since it's apparently done (or was), I'll assume that it worked well enough for the purpose of those that did it.

I'd just never seen it in my time, while I was in. But I see it on a lot of parts kit clones. So I was curious as to whether this was a typical thing, and my experience was out of the norm, or vice-versa. For me, I want the rifle to look like it did when I was carrying one 'for real'. So that means no stencils.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:I took the stencil off on several stocks for rifles that I was restoring. But then it dawned on me that I was erasing a piece of history so I stopped doing it.

I can understand that, to me though, it's a clerical thing. Like having a piece of tape behind the charging handle. Strictly there for ease of identification by the armorer in the Arms room, and to me, I'm not sure that a stencil on the side of the stock would be all that efficient but since it's apparently done (or was), I'll assume that it worked well enough for the purpose of those that did it.

I'd just never seen it in my time, while I was in. But I see it on a lot of parts kit clones. So I was curious as to whether this was a typical thing, and my experience was out of the norm, or vice-versa. For me, I want the rifle to look like it did when I was carrying one 'for real'. So that means no stencils.

Thought you might like the following link from an earlier post:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/692794_.html

Posted: 5/22/2017 4:34:01 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:

Thought you might like the following link from an earlier post:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/692794_.html

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Interesting to read everyone's thoughts on it and I can respect those that see it as history. I'm still fairly new to the board, so I haven't gotten to 'know' everyone yet. I'm curious if a lot of those that see it as history are people that carried A1's in the military, or if they're more just admirers/enthusiasts of the rifle.

Maybe the reason that I don't see it as 'history', is because my experience was carrying the rifle and none of my rifles (or any of the rifles in any of my units), had stencils. So when I got my surplus parts kit, I saw the big yellow numbers painted on the stock as a major flaw/blemish. In fact, one of my brothers who also only carried A1's when he was in, saw the stock with the stencil on it and didn't like it either and had never seen any rifles while he was in, with them on there.

As far as I'm concerned though, all of those pictures with the stencil, look great and all those without it look great also. So there really isn't a 'wrong answer' as to keeping it or cleaning it off (to me). I'm just a big fan of the classic old rifle. Many a night I slept on the ground with one keeping me warm lol.

Posted: 5/22/2017 6:15:04 PM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
Interesting to read everyone's thoughts on it and I can respect those that see it as history. I'm still fairly new to the board, so I haven't gotten to 'know' everyone yet. I'm curious if a lot of those that see it as history are people that carried A1's in the military, or if they're more just admirers/enthusiasts of the rifle.

Maybe the reason that I don't see it as 'history', is because my experience was carrying the rifle and none of my rifles (or any of the rifles in any of my units), had stencils. So when I got my surplus parts kit, I saw the big yellow numbers painted on the stock as a major flaw/blemish. In fact, one of my brothers who also only carried A1's when he was in, saw the stock with the stencil on it and didn't like it either and had never seen any rifles while he was in, with them on there.

As far as I'm concerned though, all of those pictures with the stencil, look great and all those without it look great also. So there really isn't a 'wrong answer' as to keeping it or cleaning it off (to me). I'm just a big fan of the classic old rifle. Many a night I slept on the ground with one keeping me warm lol.

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Thank you for your service!!!

Posted: 5/22/2017 7:31:54 PM EDT

[#15]

Lower incoming

Now I need some advice from y'all who have coated your lower to match the upper. Anodizing ain't gonna cut it.

Posted: 5/22/2017 7:58:35 PM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:
Lower incoming

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss208/BigRix/XM16E1/41168796-F798-456A-B87B-DF1542F3FDB7_zpsyriyytn1.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss208/BigRix/XM16E1/52941D78-BC03-40AF-9814-042CA8BA754D_zpstiemcpic.jpg

Now I need some advice from y'all who have coated your lower to match the upper. Anodizing ain't gonna cut it.

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That's hot.

Posted: 5/22/2017 8:04:05 PM EDT

[#17]

Wow. Super.

Posted: 5/22/2017 9:19:43 PM EDT

[#18]

Love the lower. Sad how many have been crushed over the years.

Posted: 5/22/2017 11:57:28 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
Lower incoming

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss208/BigRix/XM16E1/41168796-F798-456A-B87B-DF1542F3FDB7_zpsyriyytn1.jpg

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss208/BigRix/XM16E1/52941D78-BC03-40AF-9814-042CA8BA754D_zpstiemcpic.jpg

Now I need some advice from y'all who have coated your lower to match the upper. Anodizing ain't gonna cut it.

View Quote

I used Norell's Grayish Black. It may take you a few tries to get it right. Make sure you follow the instructions if you go that route. Another option would be to check with John Thomas. He might be able to get the finish pretty close.

Posted: 5/23/2017 12:12:32 AM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
Lower incoming

Now I need some advice from y'all who have coated your lower to match the upper. Anodizing ain't gonna cut it.

View Quote

It'd be sad to have all the work on that reweld done and not get it properly annodized.

Painting would be a sin. Do it right and get it annodized.

Posted: 5/23/2017 1:02:21 AM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:

It'd be sad to have all the work on that reweld done and not get it properly annodized.

Painting would be a sin. Do it right and get it annodized.

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Because it's been welded, anodizing will look like crap--it won't be one color and the weld will be highlighted.
A coating is the only option that will look good.

ETA: Gonna be a beautiful rifle!

Posted: 5/23/2017 1:46:32 AM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:

Because it's been welded, anodizing will look like crap--it won't be one color and the weld will be highlighted.
A coating is the only option that will look good.

ETA: Gonna be a beautiful rifle!

View Quote

Plus, who's doing anodizing for 'little guys' right now? It might take a year to get it done.

Posted: 5/23/2017 9:20:40 AM EDT

[#23]

You all are killing me here. I used to be quite happy with my do-it-yourself Dremel re-profiled lower and A1 upper. Now I'm starting to be bothered by the forge codes on my upper, and wondering where to get a de-mil magwell. And thinking that anodizing with Norrel's sprayed over it would greatly enhance the durability of the finish on a welded lower....

Posted: 5/23/2017 9:41:53 AM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:

Because it's been welded, anodizing will look like crap--it won't be one color and the weld will be highlighted.
A coating is the only option that will look good.

ETA: Gonna be a beautiful rifle!

View Quote

All there would be is a small difference in color at the weld.

Plus the annodization is for strength and durability, not just for looks.

In the end, it is the OP's lower though.

Posted: 5/23/2017 1:41:09 PM EDT

[#25]

I can speak from experience. I believe that I was the first to have an XM16E1 lower welded to the back half of an 80% lower by Braceman. I had it anodized and it did not turn out very well. He also warned me and I should have taken his advice. Norell's is the best way to proceed, but don't be surprised if it takes several tries.

Posted: 5/23/2017 11:11:02 PM EDT

[#26]

Having done a lot of work with Norrells, I would get it anodized basic black and apply the Norrels over that finish. Norrells just does not look, or hold up as well over raw aluminum compared to applying it over anodizing.

Posted: 5/24/2017 12:10:07 AM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
Having done a lot of work with Norrells, I would get it anodized basic black and apply the Norrels over that finish. Norrells just does not look, or hold up as well over raw aluminum compared to applying it over anodizing.

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Black would be the wrong choice.

Should be annodized XM Gray, then if OP decides, spray norrels over that.

Posted: 5/24/2017 12:24:17 AM EDT

[#28]

Other than US Anodizing, who else can do XM gray? If there isn't anyone, then it may be 8 months to a year before being able to get it anodized.

Posted: 5/24/2017 8:37:52 AM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

Quoted:
Black would be the wrong choice.

Should be annodized XM Gray, then if OP decides, spray norrels over that.

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Having done a lot of work with Norrells, I would get it anodized basic black and apply the Norrels over that finish. Norrells just does not look, or hold up as well over raw aluminum compared to applying it over anodizing.

Black would be the wrong choice.

Should be annodized XM Gray, then if OP decides, spray norrels over that.

I'm sure that fastswift knows that retro should be XM gray. I think his point is twofold. First is that the anodizing-only won't look good with a weld joining the two halves, and second is that it will have to be refinished after anodizing regardless of color, so there's no sense in waiting for US Anodizing to accept individual work (and likely paying a premium) for gray when other places can anodize in black. See the post from M4it above. Maybe he has pics from when he had it done.

Posted: 5/24/2017 12:27:53 PM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:

I'm sure that fastswift knows that retro should be XM gray. I think his point is twofold. First is that the anodizing-only won't look good with a weld joining the two halves, and second is that it will have to be refinished after anodizing regardless of color, so there's no sense in waiting for US Anodizing to accept individual work (and likely paying a premium) for gray when other places can anodize in black. See the post from M4it above. Maybe he has pics from when he had it done.

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I posted pictures of two of my restorations earlier in this thread. The pictures are of an XM16E1 and an H&R M16A1, both welded by Braceman. The finish of the magwells on these restorations are the original finish. I was also able to leave intact the DOD stamps that were on the magwells. With the exception of the back half of the lower receiver, all of the parts are original for their respective periods of manufacture. Norell's Blackish Gray was used. I found that the original finish has a little greenish tint to it which you can achieve if you follow the instructions from Norells.

Posted: 5/24/2017 12:31:28 PM EDT

[#31]

Nice

Posted: 5/24/2017 3:50:51 PM EDT

[#32]

Since we're discussing Norell's, if I can't find anyone who can anodize my lower, I'll have to go with Moly Resin, which I've never used before. Best practice would be to sandblast with something like a 100 grit media. Would a good sanding with 100 grit sandpaper be appropriate, in place of sandblasting or is blasting really the only way to go? If so, I'll just have to put together a makeshift blasting cabinet and buy a gun.

Posted: 5/24/2017 5:11:15 PM EDT

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:

I posted pictures of two of my restorations earlier in this thread. The pictures are of an XM16E1 and an H&R M16A1, both welded by Braceman. The finish of the magwells on these restorations are the original finish. I was also able to leave intact the DOD stamps that were on the magwells. With the exception of the back half of the lower receiver, all of the parts are original for their respective periods of manufacture. Norell's Blackish Gray was used. I found that the original finish has a little greenish tint to it which you can achieve if you follow the instructions from Norells.

View Quote

M4it, I missed the earlier comment about the magwells retaining their original finish. That's some impressive color matching! I wouldn't have thought that was possible.

Posted: 5/24/2017 6:37:04 PM EDT

[#34]

Quote History

Quoted:
I'm sure that fastswift knows that retro should be XM gray. I think his point is twofold. First is that the anodizing-only won't look good with a weld joining the two halves, and second is that it will have to be refinished after anodizing regardless of color, so there's no sense in waiting for US Anodizing to accept individual work (and likely paying a premium) for gray when other places can anodize in black. See the post from M4it above. Maybe he has pics from when he had it done.

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Having done a lot of work with Norrells, I would get it anodized basic black and apply the Norrels over that finish. Norrells just does not look, or hold up as well over raw aluminum compared to applying it over anodizing.

Black would be the wrong choice.

Should be annodized XM Gray, then if OP decides, spray norrels over that.

I'm sure that fastswift knows that retro should be XM gray. I think his point is twofold. First is that the anodizing-only won't look good with a weld joining the two halves, and second is that it will have to be refinished after anodizing regardless of color, so there's no sense in waiting for US Anodizing to accept individual work (and likely paying a premium) for gray when other places can anodize in black. See the post from M4it above. Maybe he has pics from when he had it done.

Thanks. I have applied Greyish flat black (XM grey) over black and it turned out fine - matched up pretty darn close to some of my old A1 uppers or lowers I had done by Victor in XM gey. I just feel applying it over a coat of anodizing gives you a stronger and more realistic finish. And you get the benefits of having a anodized receiver. Your results may vary

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - New Kit Incoming XM16E1 (Page 2 of 2)

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