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Posted: 1/10/2017 6:42:56 PM EDT
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Posted: 1/10/2017 6:51:08 PM EDT
[#1]
It's called mottling. It's from wear. I thought I heard somewhere that only the earlier grips did this? Not sure on that. They are common and there are varying degrees of the color. Some are mostly black with some white spots and some are like that.
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Posted: 1/10/2017 6:55:02 PM EDT
[#2]
That is mottling, but beyond that, it appears brown, rather than black/grey, which would mean it's a 601 grip. Hard to tell for sure in the lighting of the image.
Mottling is only visible on earlier (60's era) furniture. Wear can make it more apparent, but isn't required for it to be visible. As they refined the plastics later, the mottling isn't as visible, and sometime in the 70's (someone will correct me shortly, I'm sure), they switched plastics entirely, and those aren't mottled at all. The earliest of all, were 601's (the first production AR-15), which had brown mottled furniture, usually painted green (but not always). Can you confirm it's brown? Can you get a shot in better light? |
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Posted: 1/10/2017 8:10:29 PM EDT
[#3]
Looks pretty normal for a 60's era grip, heck some people even pay extra for the mottling when they are doing an early model retro gun. One of my M16A1's has a grip on it that looks just about the same and I know for a fact it was a combat used weapon in the mid 60's in Vietnam
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Posted: 1/10/2017 8:16:17 PM EDT
[#4]
It is not a 601 grip, because 601 grips are SKINNY, and have RECESSED cherkering. That appears to be a very weathered A1 grip with RAISED checkering. I have seen LOTS of A1 grips that turn brown with mottling when they are left out in the elements for years. You hardly ever see one in nice condition for that same reason. Over years the black dye in the grips leaches out.
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Posted: 1/10/2017 8:20:06 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is not a 601 grip, because 601 grips are SKINNY, and have RECESSED cherkering. That appears to be a very weathered A1 grip with RAISED checkering. I have seen LOTS of A1 grips that turn brown with mottling when they are left out in the elements for years. You hardly ever see one in nice condition for that same reason. Over years the black dye in the grips leaches out. Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is not a 601 grip, because 601 grips are SKINNY, and have RECESSED cherkering. That appears to be a very weathered A1 grip with RAISED checkering. I have seen LOTS of A1 grips that turn brown with mottling when they are left out in the elements for years. You hardly ever see one in nice condition for that same reason. Over years the black dye in the grips leaches out. Like I said. . . 
Quoted:
(someone will correct me shortly, I'm sure) |
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Posted: 1/10/2017 9:34:13 PM EDT
[#6]
Checkering looks pretty sharp still, I wouldn't say it's worn. Looks to be suffering from dye failure is all. Pretty nice.
I haven't done an "early" enough build to use any of mine yet. |
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Posted: 1/10/2017 9:36:37 PM EDT
[#7]
Nice A1 grip. I have a few like that. I prefer them to A2s.
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Posted: 1/11/2017 9:37:28 AM EDT
[#8]
Very commonly seen on our A1s in the 80s.
We beat the shit out those weapons in the field. Grips were weathered and scarred, the park wore off the barrels and other steel parts and rust would appear, especially on that damned ejection port cover. Anodizing would get thin at the front of the magazine port, where it was natural to put your hand when carrying the rifle with one arm. Handguards did crack. |
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Posted: 1/11/2017 10:21:48 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks pretty normal for a 60's era grip, heck some people even pay extra for the mottling when they are doing an early model retro gun. One of my M16A1's has a grip on it that looks just about the same and I know for a fact it was a combat used weapon in the mid 60's in Vietnam How do you know for sure? |
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Posted: 1/11/2017 10:34:33 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How do you know for sure? It has RAISED checkering versus INDENTED checkering on a real 601 grip. Also, a 601 grip is not as fat, AND is a different color/texture of brown. |
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Posted: 1/11/2017 11:12:22 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It has RAISED checkering versus INDENTED checkering on a real 601 grip. Also, a 601 grip is not as fat, AND is a different color/texture of brown. Look at the quoted part. I was curious how the quoted poster knows for certain his A1'parts came off a combat-used rifle. |
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Posted: 1/11/2017 11:16:38 AM EDT
[#12]
Mottling isn't so much a result of wear, as it is degredation of the black dye in the material. I've had grips that show a wide range of colors, gray, blue, green, brown, white etc. The color of the fibers they used to make the grips varied from batch to batch, thus the variations in fiber color when they mottle.
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Posted: 1/11/2017 2:43:49 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How do you know for sure? Because I have the complete linage of the rifle from the first day it was issue in Vietnam. I own 3 M16's 2 of them are A1's and the third one is an A2, I know the history on the two A1's, I am still tracking down the history on the A2. If you know where to look and who to ask, serial numbers you can find an amazing amount information. The two A1's I own, I purchased from an Armory Sgt. that I served with and he served in Nam. |
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Posted: 1/11/2017 4:20:01 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because I have the complete linage of the rifle from the first day it was issue in Vietnam. I own 3 M16's 2 of them are A1's and the third one is an A2, I know the history on the two A1's, I am still tracking down the history on the A2. If you know where to look and who to ask, serial numbers you can find an amazing amount information. The two A1's I own, I purchased from an Armory Sgt. that I served with and he served in Nam. You should start a new thread about that. Like an Arfcom version of that PBS history detectives. |
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Posted: 1/11/2017 5:38:22 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You should start a new thread about that. Like an Arfcom version of that PBS history detectives. Might be fun, I will have to think about it. |
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Posted: 1/11/2017 7:06:47 PM EDT
[#16]
Earlier grips were made with phenolic resins, which later was replaced with glass nylon and polymer.
It's like a dyed Bakelite. Good article here: How Armalite (1955-60) Made Stocks & Furniture Grips aren't really identified by the rifle model, but by whatever grip type Colt was using at the time. Colt has generally sourced furniture in batches based on the approved production techniques and dimensions at the time, then attached them to whatever guns were in the production run, so we've pretty much always seen overlap in parts from one Model to the next. This has risen to the retro crowd identifying furniture by different types rather than rifle models. |
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Posted: 1/11/2017 10:16:49 PM EDT
[#17]
So, this grip with the checkering embossed in lower than the surface of the grip itself, a 601 type grip?
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Posted: 1/11/2017 11:24:26 PM EDT
[#18]
Could be. What's it measure at it's widest point side to side? I could be wrong on measurement as it's been a while but for some odd reason 1.17 inch or such comes to mind. Definitely smaller than the 1.25ish inch skinny bottom early Colt stuff.
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Posted: 1/11/2017 11:42:33 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, this grip with the checkering embossed in lower than the surface of the grip itself, a 601 type grip? Definately a 601 grip with the checkering debossed. If you look carefully in the checkering you can even see some traces of green paint. |
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Posted: 1/11/2017 11:51:43 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Might be fun, I will have to think about it. |
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Posted: 1/12/2017 12:28:27 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How long have you had your m16s and where from if I may ask? My two A1's I purchased in the early 80's and my A2 I purchased last November, my first two I was still in the service and my last one was from a friend of mine that had cancer last year who wanted it to go to someone he knew would appreciate it. My A2 was produced before the change of laws in 1986, but he had it in his possession and offered it to me to raise some funds for his family before he passed. I purchased all of them from men that I served with at one time or another. I didn't ask. |
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Posted: 1/12/2017 1:20:19 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My two A1's I purchased in the early 80's and my A2 I purchased last November, my first two I was still in the service and my last one was from a friend of mine that had cancer last year who wanted it to go to someone he knew would appreciate it. My A2 was produced before the change of laws in 1986, but he had it in his possession and offered it to me to raise some funds for his family before he passed. I purchased all of them from men that I served with at one time or another. I didn't ask. You should post some photos in the M-16 photo thread I'll post a link |
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Posted: 1/12/2017 1:22:00 AM EDT
[#23]
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/708072_.html&page=1&anc=7362418#i7362418
here is is the photo thread |
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Posted: 1/12/2017 11:47:33 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, this grip with the checkering embossed in lower than the surface of the grip itself, a 601 type grip? This is not a 601 grip. It would be all reddish brown, no black in the grip material. Checkering looks raised as well. Unless it's just the lighting, looks like a std A1 grip. |
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Posted: 1/12/2017 12:15:39 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is not a 601 grip. It would be all reddish brown, no black in the grip material. Checkering looks raised as well. Unless it's just the lighting, looks like a std A1 grip. It is VERY EASY to tell - if the checkering is DEBOSSED (lower than the grip surface) and the grip is skinny, then it HAS to be a 601 grip OR an even more rare skinny 602 grip (which would be black). If the checkering is RAISED, it is a standard A1 grip. I had some brown 601 hand guards that had a little black in the material as well. |
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Posted: 1/12/2017 4:49:31 PM EDT
[#26]
Thanks for the replies, and my apologies to the OP for hijacking this thread 
The grip hasn't any redness in the material, only black, grey, and brown mixed. Couldn't find any traces of green paint. The checkering is definitely pressed into the grip body and is slightly lower than body ( at least around the perimeter of checkering). Measures "1.155 in thickness across the thickest point. So, what do I have here? |
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Posted: 1/12/2017 7:08:00 PM EDT
[#27]
Hey OP...........even GM's have mottling. Are there any markings inside your grip where the screw goes?
2 mottled GM grips.... 
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Posted: 1/17/2017 4:55:51 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Earlier grips were made with phenolic resins, which later was replaced with glass nylon and polymer. It's like a dyed Bakelite. Good article here: How Armalite (1955-60) Made Stocks & Furniture Grips aren't really identified by the rifle model, but by whatever grip type Colt was using at the time. Colt has generally sourced furniture in batches based on the approved production techniques and dimensions at the time, then attached them to whatever guns were in the production run, so we've pretty much always seen overlap in parts from one Model to the next. This has risen to the retro crowd identifying furniture by different types rather than rifle models. I would also add that, absolutes in this hobby are almost always shattered. We are consistently proved wrong on our assumptions about date ranges and parts combos etc... The inconsistencies seem to far outweigh the assumed knowns. Retro M16s are kinda like Win13 Garands, just a bunch of parts put together from whats laying around at the time. |
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Posted: 1/18/2017 10:59:07 AM EDT
[#29]
I pulled a few 601 grips out last night along with a few A1s. what I found is all my 601 grips seem that the die stamped into the grip on the bottom a little deeper and raised less towards the top. I also found this "skinny" black mottled grip I have on my early XM that appears to be from the same run with black instead of brown dye. It appears the same dimensional with shared characteristics from manufacturing.
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Posted: 1/18/2017 11:02:01 AM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 1/18/2017 11:06:30 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the replies, and my apologies to the OP for hijacking this thread
The grip hasn't any redness in the material, only black, grey, and brown mixed. Couldn't find any traces of green paint. The checkering is definitely pressed into the grip body and is slightly lower than body ( at least around the perimeter of checkering). Measures "1.155 in thickness across the thickest point. So, what do I have here? Something I want 
But seriously thats a good example. Notice the raised lump on the bottom of the grip towards the rear of the checkering. I have noticed this on my selection of 601, and "skinny" grips like yours. |
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Posted: 1/18/2017 2:07:59 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ill tell you exactly what you have Dan.... Something I want
But seriously thats a good example. Notice the raised lump on the bottom of the grip towards the rear of the checkering. I have noticed this on my selection of 601, and "skinny" grips like yours. i still need a fully recessed one i can strip down for my early 601. i have one with lots of green i can't bring myself to strip. |
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Posted: 1/18/2017 10:35:29 PM EDT
[#33]
I wonder if there is any relation to the amount of time spent playing around with retros, to how many different mottled grips in the collections?
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Posted: 1/19/2017 5:36:17 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wonder if there is any relation to the amount of time spent playing around with retros, to how many different mottled grips in the collections? http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s147/crackedcornish/IMG_0197.jpg
I like your container too. I need some like that. This thread on the same subject is good too, and shows our progression, regression, obsession, whatever you want to call it. Same topic different day
https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/682914_.html |
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Posted: 1/19/2017 9:18:35 PM EDT
[#35]
Would a couple of ya'll mind appraising these real world fair pricing of 4 recessed checkering 1.16 inch black pistol grips if no trouble in appraisal thread. Condition is at least VG to fair IMO. Going to post more pics in appraisal thread just came here as many don't even look there. I found a box of 200 plus and need the space but I know these are the most desireable of what I have. Mostly M-16A1 Colt but lots of XM16E1, H&R and GM too. Please don't IM about purchasing at this time.
I'm going to assume not cleaning these is best also, leave them in their as stored patina. 
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Posted: 1/19/2017 9:34:02 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would a couple of ya'll mind appraising these real world fair pricing of 4 recessed checkering 1.16 inch black pistol grips if no trouble in appraisal thread. Condition is at least VG to fair IMO. Going to post more pics in appraisal thread just came here as many don't even look there. I found a box of 200 plus and need the space but I know these are the most desireable of what I have. Mostly M-16A1 Colt but lots of XM16E1, H&R and GM too. Please don't IM about purchasing at this time. I'm going to assume not cleaning these is best also, leave them in their as stored patina. http://i866.photobucket.com/albums/ab223/cndenmark/DSCN2924_zpsy8e8hfpj.jpg I have never paid more for a thin grip than I have for any other grip, other than a 601 grip. IMO same value as a fat grip. |
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Posted: 1/20/2017 2:35:19 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have never paid more for a thin grip than I have for any other grip, other than a 601 grip. IMO same value as a fat grip.
Id say $20-25 is fair for pulling them out of the pile. Heck I've paid that for unique ones that I liked the mottling or markings. |
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Posted: 1/20/2017 4:09:53 PM EDT
[#38]
Thanks Liv4Nov. Kinda what I was thinking too. A little more than a standard A-1. Condition is key and those aren't the best out there.
Bruce I believe times are a little different today than when you were selling triangle HG's for $10-15 a set or complete uppers were $250-275 every day but still some deals out there from time to time. I do remember you always bought the skinny grips and I bought what was left. USPS gets more for shipping today than we sold a ton of this stuff for shipped. Remember when we mixed up the GM and H&R symbols? Heck we were close and giving it 100%, just a$$ backwards. Thanks for input and it was always a pleasure looking at your builds. How about your 601 HG search? Few probably remember that. |
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