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Posted: 6/11/2015 1:36:37 PM EDT
Of course everyone on this board appreciates the beauty, simplicity, and most of all, the light weight and handling of the "retro" style ARs. KISS is an important principle which I believe is doubly important for SHTF. You want a rifle that is light, handy, durable, and SIMPLE for a hard / rugged use scenario. A SHTF retro style AR most likely won't be historically accurate, but will borrow the best from the past while implementing some modern enhancements for logistics sake.
For instance, take my SHTF C7 Style Midlength rifle. It has an A1 profile barrel, and A1 style upper. But the barrel is 1-7 twist to better accommodate any type of ammo you might want (or have) to field. It also has a midlength gas system for smoother operation, less recoil, longer sight radius, and ability to accept a bayonet. It has an A1 upper, but in the C7 style, as I believe the burton bump and forward assist are important and necessary features to have. It has an M4 stock vs. CAR for durability and ergonomics. I love how light and handy this rifle is, it points great. The gun is very accurate. I zero'd this rifle a few years back, I hadn't shot it in a couple of years and just recently took it out again. It is still dead on! I couldn't believe that the zero didn't need to be adjusted what so ever after 3 years, neither elevation or windage wise! You can't beat the set it and forget it nature of the A1 sights! Full Specs / Features: *Weight unloaded w/o sling 6 lbs. 4 ounces *16" Midlength 1 - 7 twist chrome lined ADCO barrel, re-contoured to A1 profile and mounted with a *non* F .625 FSB. *Anchor Harvey C7 style upper *Full Auto Chrome BCG (Young Manf carrier Spikes chrome bolt) *Retro Style modern production 3 pronged flash hider for looks and performance. I have it timed so that the third prong is facing the bottom with a open slot facing up, giving it some gas push down performance / ground dust signature shielding similar to the A2! *Basic M4 style lower 
Let's see your SHTF retro style AR15 rifles! I know I can't be the only one who thinks a KISS retro AR is the way to go for SHTF! |
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Posted: 6/11/2015 2:09:14 PM EDT
[#1]
My ranch gun pretty much a spare parts build, but I think it meets the criteria. A lot of the parts came from my 653ish project that got put on hold. No idea on weight, but it's nothing extraordinary.
I've been meaning to get an A1 stock for it, but eh, there are other projects. I missed a nice EE deal on a RRA Entry + Knight's extension package a few weeks ago that would have been perfect. C7 Upper (EE score) Fulton teardrop and port door assembly Faxon melonite mid-length gov. profile barrel with Armalite clamp-onFSB (Cheap EE find) YHM low profile steel gb (spare parts) Fulton three-prong and slip ring Bushmaster BCG (Brownell's sale) Streamlight TLR HP (Palmetto clearance deal) RRA lpk (spare parts box) Used 7075 RE (EE score) Spikes buffer kit IDF sling with QD socket at rear and colt FSB mount up front 
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Posted: 6/11/2015 6:29:34 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Retro "styled" but not a perfect copy. <a href="http://s769.photobucket.com/user/Tslepebull/media/IMG_0199%203_zpsuedt9odo.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx338/Tslepebull/IMG_0199%203_zpsuedt9odo.jpg</a><a href="http://s769.photobucket.com/user/Tslepebull/media/IMG_0202%202_zpszcfaeiw6.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx338/Tslepebull/IMG_0202%202_zpszcfaeiw6.jpg</a> Total weight with butt pad 7.12 lbs. Looks like a nice build, though that's heavy for an A1 carbine! Is that an HBAR underneath the handguards? Give us a little insight on why that rifle is a primary SHTF gun for you! |
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Posted: 6/11/2015 6:34:06 PM EDT
[#5]
This... Plus a sling. Simple, light and has always been reliable.
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Posted: 6/11/2015 6:36:21 PM EDT
[#6]
I would like to contribute, but none of my retros will serve duty as a SHTF weapon. I have modern ARs set up for that purpose and the variation used is dependent on what the mission capabilities would dictate.
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Posted: 6/11/2015 6:41:44 PM EDT
[#7]
RRA Lightweight barrel
  DD14.5 pinned   |
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Posted: 6/11/2015 6:46:18 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This... Plus a sling. Simple, light and has always been reliable. http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m140/Aeneas2020/17c4a3c1-5ef4-4a4c-baf9-f97014b44e7c.jpg Is that an A2 flash hider? Original 1-12 twist barrel? |
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Posted: 6/11/2015 6:48:51 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is that an A2 flash hider? Original 1-12 twist barrel? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This... Plus a sling. Simple, light and has always been reliable. http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m140/Aeneas2020/17c4a3c1-5ef4-4a4c-baf9-f97014b44e7c.jpg Is that an A2 flash hider? Original 1-12 twist barrel? It's a repro 3 prong. And I'll have to check the barrel specs to be honest I can't remember right now :-( |
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Posted: 6/11/2015 6:49:24 PM EDT
[#10]
 Not really Retro in anyway except it is my take on a modern M1 Carbine Rifle. |
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Posted: 6/11/2015 6:49:31 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would like to contribute, but none of my retros will serve duty as a SHTF weapon. I have modern ARs set up for that purpose and the variation used is dependent on what the mission capabilities would dictate. I think "modern" ARs will prove to be less durable and more finicky in the long run during a prolonged SHTF scenario, esp those that feature a lot of glass or electronics. I also think things like foldable + plastic sights, etc. will prove to be subpar in hard use and abuse over the long haul and the chinks in their armor will become apparent. |
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Posted: 6/11/2015 7:10:49 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think "modern" ARs will prove to be less durable and more finicky in the long run during a prolonged SHTF scenario, esp those that feature a lot of glass or electronics. I also think things like foldable + plastic sights, etc. will prove to be subpar in hard use and abuse over the long haul and the chinks in their armor will become apparent. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I would like to contribute, but none of my retros will serve duty as a SHTF weapon. I have modern ARs set up for that purpose and the variation used is dependent on what the mission capabilities would dictate. I think "modern" ARs will prove to be less durable and more finicky in the long run during a prolonged SHTF scenario, esp those that feature a lot of glass or electronics. I also think things like foldable + plastic sights, etc. will prove to be subpar in hard use and abuse over the long haul and the chinks in their armor will become apparent. Many people have different ideas as to what a SHTF weapon should be. What it should be is versatile enough in design to perform well in a few different functions. It should also be sturdy as should all the accessories used on/with it. |
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Posted: 6/11/2015 7:31:33 PM EDT
[#13]
If no glass is the idea...well hell, every retro will by default, be a "SHTF rifle". What does one do when its dark(when most encounters are gonna happen)? SHTF duty to me, means no messing around. I personally want the deck absolutely stacked in my favor. That means a weapon light and RDS. THAT(retros retrofitted with tactical updates) would be a great bias for this kinda thread in this forum. Otherwise, its just another KISS pic thread. We already have that.
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Posted: 6/11/2015 7:56:16 PM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 6/11/2015 8:16:57 PM EDT
[#15]
This for sure:
Maybe this: 
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Posted: 6/11/2015 8:36:47 PM EDT
[#16]
This is somewhere that I can get to it quickly and has a magazine of M193 ready to go, but I'm not sure it would be the "one" if I had to bail out of the house with only one rifle. Maybe my upcoming mid-length build with the Daniel Defense A1.5 rear sight on the flattop. That's almost kinda sorta retro, right?
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Posted: 6/11/2015 8:51:08 PM EDT
[#17]
Does my 45-70 sharps count?
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Posted: 6/11/2015 9:19:12 PM EDT
[#18]
It's the only one I gots, so it's a gunna haft ta do.... Has a GP sling to go with it.
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Posted: 6/11/2015 9:28:06 PM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 6/11/2015 9:42:36 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks like a nice build, though that's heavy for an A1 carbine! Is that an HBAR underneath the handguards? Give us a little insight on why that rifle is a primary SHTF gun for you! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Retro "styled" but not a perfect copy. <a href="http://s769.photobucket.com/user/Tslepebull/media/IMG_0199%203_zpsuedt9odo.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx338/Tslepebull/IMG_0199%203_zpsuedt9odo.jpg</a><a href="http://s769.photobucket.com/user/Tslepebull/media/IMG_0202%202_zpszcfaeiw6.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx338/Tslepebull/IMG_0202%202_zpszcfaeiw6.jpg</a> Total weight with butt pad 7.12 lbs. Looks like a nice build, though that's heavy for an A1 carbine! Is that an HBAR underneath the handguards? Give us a little insight on why that rifle is a primary SHTF gun for you! Yeah the M4 barrel, slip-on flash hider, and aluminum stock do add about 12 oz. but it keeps everything really stable and well balanced. It is my SHTF rifle because it is dead reliable with no batteries, cross hairs, or other accoutrements to fail. I like the 1:9 twist barrel because it can handle ammo weights from the mid-40's to mid-60's grains equally and that gives me a lot of versatility. |
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Posted: 6/11/2015 9:42:41 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
<a href="http://s745.photobucket.com/user/sergio762/media/20140921_143609_zpsrk9rrumw.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx96/sergio762/20140921_143609_zpsrk9rrumw.jpg</a> Love that 610! |
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Posted: 6/11/2015 10:05:46 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Love that 610! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
<a href="http://s745.photobucket.com/user/sergio762/media/20140921_143609_zpsrk9rrumw.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx96/sergio762/20140921_143609_zpsrk9rrumw.jpg</a> Love that 610! Thanks its a blast with a 22lr kit. I wish i could afford a dias! |
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Posted: 6/11/2015 10:08:11 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's the only one I gots, so it's a gunna haft ta do.... Has a GP sling to go with it. Is it a midlength with a RRA entry stock? |
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Posted: 6/11/2015 10:25:17 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
<a href="http://s745.photobucket.com/user/sergio762/media/20140921_143609_zpsrk9rrumw.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx96/sergio762/20140921_143609_zpsrk9rrumw.jpg</a> Is that like a billion baby oak trees coming up? |
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Posted: 6/11/2015 10:41:50 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
THAT'S SLICK! Is it a midlength with a RRA entry stock? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Is it a midlength with a RRA entry stock? Yup... Member jhud created the upper... RRA entry stock sets it off nicely |
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Posted: 6/11/2015 10:53:40 PM EDT
[#26]
My old colt. No frills but Running 20+ years failure free.
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Posted: 6/11/2015 11:28:36 PM EDT
[#27]
Because my SHTF ammo is 75 gr Hornady TAP either this:
 " />
or this:  " />
because of the 1/7 twists (but to be honest I would grab my Recce build with Nightforce glass first) |
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Posted: 6/11/2015 11:32:00 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup... Member jhud created the upper... RRA entry stock sets it off nicely Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is it a midlength with a RRA entry stock? Yup... Member jhud created the upper... RRA entry stock sets it off nicely |
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Posted: 6/12/2015 6:05:35 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
where did the triangle handguards come from? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Is it a midlength with a RRA entry stock? Yup... Member jhud created the upper... RRA entry stock sets it off nicely Jhud made those too...they are cut down full size HG's. Here is a pic with more detail... 
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Posted: 6/12/2015 9:48:28 AM EDT
[#31]
Here is mine if A2s count as retro!
FK A2 Upper 16" 1 in 9 Mid-Length Del-Ton barrel kit M16 BCG Surplus Ammo and Arms A2 stock |
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Posted: 6/12/2015 10:30:30 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If no glass is the idea...well hell, every retro will by default, be a "SHTF rifle". What does one do when its dark(when most encounters are gonna happen)? SHTF duty to me, means no messing around. I personally want the deck absolutely stacked in my favor. That means a weapon light and RDS. THAT(retros retrofitted with tactical updates) would be a great bias for this kinda thread in this forum. Otherwise, its just another KISS pic thread. We already have that. Well not quite. While some of the retro rifles have good features (KISS and durable iron sights, light profile barrels), there are many improvements that can still be made. For instance, I would NOT want a 1-12 twist barrel in the modern age, that really limits your ammo choices and I'd hate to be stuck trying to use ammo that wouldn't stabilize in my rifle. Likewise, A1 fiberglass furniture is delicate compare to modern polymers and is prone to cracking. Not something you'd want in a collapse of civilization type rifle! When the A2 came out, one of the big improvements was the 8x stronger nylon impregnated zytle polymer formula. Likewise, I think the reinforced stronger A2 lower is also an improvement over the slick side weaker A1 lower. The receiver extension is one of the achillies heels of the A1 rifle, and adding strength to that area is definitely a good thing. Likewise, I am a fan of the forward assist and the burton bump. If I've had situations where I've had to use the FA at the range, then there is no way I'd want to chance not having one in a serious use situation. |
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Posted: 6/12/2015 1:00:04 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If no glass is the idea...well hell, every retro will by default, be a "SHTF rifle". What does one do when its dark(when most encounters are gonna happen)? SHTF duty to me, means no messing around. I personally want the deck absolutely stacked in my favor. That means a weapon light and RDS. THAT(retros retrofitted with tactical updates) would be a great bias for this kinda thread in this forum. Otherwise, its just another KISS pic thread. We already have that. You mean something a little more like this? 
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Posted: 6/12/2015 1:40:51 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You mean something a little more like this?
<a href="http://s790.photobucket.com/user/DeadpanSnarker/media/15.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy181/DeadpanSnarker/15.jpg</a> Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If no glass is the idea...well hell, every retro will by default, be a "SHTF rifle". What does one do when its dark(when most encounters are gonna happen)? SHTF duty to me, means no messing around. I personally want the deck absolutely stacked in my favor. That means a weapon light and RDS. THAT(retros retrofitted with tactical updates) would be a great bias for this kinda thread in this forum. Otherwise, its just another KISS pic thread. We already have that. You mean something a little more like this?
<a href="http://s790.photobucket.com/user/DeadpanSnarker/media/15.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy181/DeadpanSnarker/15.jpg</a> Hipower90 and I have different definitions of SHTF. He is using any time he might need to use a gun as "SHTF", I am referring to SHTF as post apocalyptic or collapse of society / rule of law. I don't think battery and glass operated gadgets would be long for that world so any advantages you might enjoy would be very fleeting. Then you're left with an unergonomic overtly heavy AR with fragile sights. |
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Posted: 6/12/2015 5:40:34 PM EDT
[#35]
I've posted pictures of this before in the Mid-Length thread,
My take on a modern A1 and a test bed for things I hadn't done. Excuse the crumby pics. 16" mid-length CMMG nitrided 1x7 barrel Aim Nickle Boron BCG OD MagPul furniture, fixed carbine stock AAC blackout flash hider (modern 3 prong) C7 upper, lower and all alloy parts cera-koted Patriot Brown Wpns Man |
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Posted: 6/12/2015 6:00:16 PM EDT
[#36]
I built a CAR-15 with a C7 upper.
Then it gained a set of free float rails. Then it gained an IR laser and illuminator. Then it gained a suppressor. It's not very KISS anymore but I can shoot stuff in the dark, reasonably quietly. 
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Posted: 6/12/2015 6:05:46 PM EDT
[#37]
Probably something on this wall.
Most likely the M14 |
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Posted: 6/12/2015 6:23:21 PM EDT
[#38]
All these are on 80% receivers.... Except for the little guy on the right, the kits were from Royal Tiger - those Malaysian M16A1s that came in. I got the barrels from AR15.com and reused the kit's front sight base. After I had done a couple "used-FSB-to-virgin-barrel" jobs I read that "It can't be done". ( ! ) Good thing I didn't read that first....
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Posted: 6/12/2015 6:34:04 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
(but to be honest I would grab my Recce build with Nightforce glass first) Me too. But for balance, here is a contrarian view on SHTF guns from Bill Jordan: If you can shoot |
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Posted: 6/12/2015 7:18:03 PM EDT
[#40]
Retro wise I would grab these two. They are the last A-1 builds that I have done. Both function without a hitch.
 " />
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Posted: 6/12/2015 7:36:04 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hipower90 and I have different definitions of SHTF. He is using any time he might need to use a gun as "SHTF", I am referring to SHTF as post apocalyptic or collapse of society / rule of law. I don't think battery and glass operated gadgets would be long for that world so any advantages you might enjoy would be very fleeting. Then you're left with an unergonomic overtly heavy AR with fragile sights. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If no glass is the idea...well hell, every retro will by default, be a "SHTF rifle". What does one do when its dark(when most encounters are gonna happen)? SHTF duty to me, means no messing around. I personally want the deck absolutely stacked in my favor. That means a weapon light and RDS. THAT(retros retrofitted with tactical updates) would be a great bias for this kinda thread in this forum. Otherwise, its just another KISS pic thread. We already have that. You mean something a little more like this?
<a href="http://s790.photobucket.com/user/DeadpanSnarker/media/15.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy181/DeadpanSnarker/15.jpg</a> Hipower90 and I have different definitions of SHTF. He is using any time he might need to use a gun as "SHTF", I am referring to SHTF as post apocalyptic or collapse of society / rule of law. I don't think battery and glass operated gadgets would be long for that world so any advantages you might enjoy would be very fleeting. Then you're left with an unergonomic overtly heavy AR with fragile sights. Unergonomic? Heavy? Fragile? What? Why would they suddenly be all that if my RDS and light suddenly dies? What diff would that make? My 2 A1 types shown on page 1 of this thread...well, I'd just take the 5 seconds it takes to remove the RDS. Same with the light. Bam..both are instantly well under 6lbs, ready to go. Hell, all my ARs are light weights(every single one is a .625 pencil barrel build, sans one 10.5" Gov. I'm a pretty big weight weenie. So that claim is absolutely invalid. even my one scoped illum 4x1 AR is just a bit over 7lbs). Actually, I'm looking at both types of SHTF. I already live remotely deep in the mtns at the end of a deadend rd...heat with wood only...cut and process my own wood...have a large garden...free gravity spring water system coming off the mtn behind/above the house.. trout stream running thru the front yard... bear, wild pigs, deer, yotes, all on my property...I'm an avid backpacker and mt biker...lots of food, ammo,weapons, precious metals, batteries, body armor, chainsaws, tillers, dual sport motos, 4 wheelers, 9k generator, 100s of candles, oil lanterns, etc etc stored. Been doing it since the early 80s. I have lots of RDS/light batteries stored, so I'd be good for at least a few yrs. IF one has to actually get a true fire fight trying to defend ones stuff, I'm confident that I'd still be using a light and RDS sight. Thats too big of advantage to give up. The WORST that would happen, is I'd have go back to irons. I've been very good with irons since the late 60s. If that much time has passed for glass to fail, and its STILL SHTF circumstances...then I've got more chit to worry about then just batteries. Then of course, I've also got AKs, M1As, multi .22's(65k of .22lr alone), etc. I think I'm good. |
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Posted: 6/12/2015 8:03:55 PM EDT
[#42]
It looks like carbines are a favorite for the most part. The thing that impresses me about my retro carbine is the weight. I have my Colt 723'ish build and a modern style carbine with aftermarket parts. The retro is much lighter and better balanced.
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Posted: 6/12/2015 8:22:25 PM EDT
[#43]
As much as I love my AR15 retro platform, if society was ending, this would be first choice...
 </a>" />
 </a>" />
This would be second....  " />
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Posted: 6/12/2015 9:36:22 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Many people have different ideas as to what a SHTF weapon should be. What it should be is versatile enough in design to perform well in a few different functions. It should also be sturdy as should all the accessories used on/with it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would like to contribute, but none of my retros will serve duty as a SHTF weapon. I have modern ARs set up for that purpose and the variation used is dependent on what the mission capabilities would dictate. I think "modern" ARs will prove to be less durable and more finicky in the long run during a prolonged SHTF scenario, esp those that feature a lot of glass or electronics. I also think things like foldable + plastic sights, etc. will prove to be subpar in hard use and abuse over the long haul and the chinks in their armor will become apparent. Many people have different ideas as to what a SHTF weapon should be. What it should be is versatile enough in design to perform well in a few different functions. It should also be sturdy as should all the accessories used on/with it. Agreed! In the main KISS thread in tech, it seems that a lot of KISS advocates have confused KISS with "retro" or "light." Personally, I wouldn't want to stake my life on an iron sights / no light rifle in a scenario where I am defending the life of me and mine. A light, basic rifle is tons of fun, but IMO is not an SHTF rifle in today's world. And as far as flip-ups and optics not holding up, those who live where the S is HTF all the time (the sandbox) don't seem to have any issues. ...rant over... |
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Posted: 6/12/2015 10:45:10 PM EDT
[#45]
I am mostly an iron sight guy, maybe because I am 63, and have used irons all my military and law enforcement careers...old school. I do have a 20mm and 30mm Tasco red dot. One is a vintage Accupoint and the other is a vintage Pro-point. They are all metal and made for shotguns and the recoil from slugs. TOUGH scopes. I have one for my AK, and I can easily pounce pop cans, standing off-hand at 50-60 yards. 3 MOAish at 100 yards from a rest. If the battery dies (as it did last week because I forgot to turn off the scope, it is just 10 seconds to drop the optic off. With my M1 Carbine, I snap shoot better with irons.
With the AK, better with the red dot. My first choice would be AK with the red dot as needed. Second choice would actually be a tie between the retro 20" AR and my M1 Carbine! |
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Posted: 6/13/2015 12:09:00 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Me too. But for balance, here is a contrarian view on SHTF guns from Bill Jordan: If you can shoot Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
(but to be honest I would grab my Recce build with Nightforce glass first) Me too. But for balance, here is a contrarian view on SHTF guns from Bill Jordan: If you can shoot I think when my dad was alive he would had agreed with the Sheriff. This Mod 10 and a box of 38 silvertips lived either behind the seat of his 1966 El Camino or behind the seat of his motorhome when he was traveling. Sweetest Smith I own - two barrel bulges and the smoothest double action trigger... 
 " />
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Posted: 6/13/2015 1:03:23 AM EDT
[#47]
Here's that close second choice M1 Carbine: Very light and handy. A lot of firepower for just over 5 pounds.
 </a>ttp://" />
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Posted: 6/13/2015 6:52:20 AM EDT
[#48]
 [/URL]
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Posted: 6/13/2015 1:20:35 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryNot retro, but I like it! Pic of entire truck? I like the lower BTW - converted SP1? |
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Posted: 6/13/2015 1:52:29 PM EDT
[#50]
Yes, registered receiver converted Sporter.
 [/URL]
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