I originally posted this on December 20, 2013 (Currently In The Archives) and am still interested know what the markings mean/are.  Also, I would like to know if this is a H&R Upper?  I've added new pictures. Please remember this upper was purchased "Stripped".  The sight, forward assist, etc. are all from a USGI Colt M16A1.  Thanks in advance for everyone's help in this regard.

Following is the text from the original post plus the new pictures:

"I have what I believe to be a H&R M16A1 upper. I recently purchased it striped. There are no stampings or markings anywhere on the upper except under the rear sight. There it is marked "M A 6 7". These marks all seem to be individually stamped into the metal. Does anyone know what this stamping is and what it means?
The upper has flash left all the way around the inside of the carry handle. The front is nicely machined with no flash. There is a little residual flash on the back - can feel a little ridge in one area. I'd like to also confirm that this is an H&R M16A1 upper. Any help would be greatly appreciated. "

Never seen stamping like that underneath finish.  Most were black and that looks grey.  Possibly a refinish and LEO.  Any proofs up by port door towards barrel?  Only Colt assembled rifles were proofed. Flash under carry handle is on most all of them regardless of mfg.  Flash on front and back of carry handle is a good sign for GM or H&R.  Many H&R's were cast blemished on left side by windage drum screw under finish.

Welcome to retroland.  Nice piece.  Was it totally stripped.  No FA,  sight door etc?

That looks like it has a SQ forge too, and no rebated lug.(might be buts its blurry)

It might be round, cant tell because of the angle.

In for answer

That is very interesting, maybe a pic showing the threads and zoomed in pic of the proof mark area just above and to the right of the port door will give us some answers.


ETA: Is there a barrel on it or just a bbl nut with slip ring assembly screwed on the threads? Disregaurd, just saw the gastube in one of the pics. Missed that on the first glance.......

Hello DaleJohnsn / Dale.  The small amount of forging flash on the rear of the carry handle isn't too different than what I have seen on the front of 60s and 70s Colt upper receivers (I don't have pictures).  Every Colt upper receiver I have seen has fine sanding / buffing tool marks that run from side to side where the rear forging flash was, and the same kind of tool marks that run front to back where the front forging flash was.  Here is a pic of where the front forging flash was removed on Colt upper receivers:



What will be most helpful is if you could post pictures from each side "straight on" like these:




There are subtle differences in the forgings and pictures like this can help us figure out exactly what you have.  Interesting things are (the presence of) proof marks above and in front of the port door like previously mentioned, the arrow and "R" near the sight wheel, Pictures usually end up clearer if you take them out in sunlight.  Proof marks:



Other things you could confirm are a rebated front lug (on the left side) and an auto sear relief cut on the bottom in front of the rear lug.

There are no proof marks at all on the upper.
Yes, the upper was purchased completely stripped. No barrel, front sight, forward assist, etc.
I'll see what I can do about getting pictures (straight on) of the left and right sides.  I'll also take a picture of the underside of the receiver with the bolt carry group removed.

Here are four more pictures of the upper.  I hope these helps.

This is the clearest picture of the Left side of the receiver I could get.

This is the right side of the receiver.

This is a close up of the right side of the receiver where proof marks should be found.  None are present.

This is a close up of the underside of the receiver.

Thanks for the additional pictures.  I just realized you already posted a picture of where the front forging flash was. :)  I can't really tell, I think it is an early round forge Colt receiver that was not proof marked.  (They say replacement receivers were not proof marked)  I still can't tell if the left side of the front lug has a rebate / step cut in it.  If it does that will help date it as pre ~1970.  (check the tacked upper receiver guide)

I'm still gonna stick with it's a Colt from what I'm seeing.  It didn't leave the factory or should I say wasn't sold by the factory in present condition.  I really wouldn't be surprised if refinished over stamping and possibly proofs under existing finish.  Stamping is probably a LEO or commercial from surplus as I've seen a few trade-ins that were similar just no finish over stamp.  As stated Colt replacement uppers weren't proof marked as they were never proof tested and many ended up at Sendra,  PWA and such.  You have options and I'm definately no GM or H&R expert but neither is anyone else that I know of.  Some do know a lot  more than I do about them.  Simply not enough of the non Colts in original condition left for the general public to examine thoroughly.  Still kinda cool.

Somebob: I checked the lugs of the upper receiver this evening and found the holes to be of uniform diameter all the way through (both front and back).  There was no "Step" cut in the hole.

So, is it the consensus of everyone that this is a USGI replcement unmarked Colt upper with the "MA67" being a rack number, LE marking, or something else (currently uncertain)?

OP,  I wouldn't say everyone's consensus but it's leaning more toward Colt than H&R or GM,  at least IMO.  Replacement very possible.  Sometimes it's a lot easier to accurately diagnose in hand than looking at pics.  All the FN A-1's I've seen were basically identical to Colt XM16E1 receivers with rebated front lug , without proofs.  I'm not saying they were made by FN but probably dead stock they purchased and used for replacements as they were under govt contract.  I've never seen a FN like yours.  It's possible,  after XM16E1 style was used up.  There were also commercial uppers that were built from surplus parts very similar also.

I've seen a few stamped similar from LEO trade-ins but never stamping under the external finish which leads me to believe it's been re-finished.  I wouldn't be shocked to see Colt proofs underneath finish if stripped meaning not a replacement.  Without rebated front lug probably not.  Forge code could have been removed before stamping also. Variables / possibilities!  You simply can't stamp without marring original finish that I know of.  Colt proofs aren't under the finish on original receivers and they are stamped.  If no proofs under finish then it almost has to be replacement or commercial.  Plenty of unfinished parts hit the civillian market 25 plus years ago.  Lot of high quality smith's out there who could easily make something look as yours very quickly.

My suggestion build it, sell it or simply enjoy it for now.  Never know.  There are a lot people who know more than simply those lurking in retroland about retro items.  Could get an answer with authenticity tomorrow and maybe not.  For now I'd simply call it an  A-1 receiver and leave it at that.  Throw it back up in a couple months and see if any new info follows. Also check hometown section and see if locally there is someone who could possibly shed a light.  Check it good with magnification,  etc. Thanks again for sharing.

Thanks for the info.  I am really hoping I have a H&R upper because I have a M16A1 lower that I would like it to go with.  I'm in the Kansas City area.  If anyone knows someone who might better identify my upper and its "MA67" marking, I'd appreciate it.  Anybody have a H&R upper they no longer want/need?

The only FN manufactured variant A1 upper receiver I have ever encountered and used as replacements (taken out of the wrapper) were C7 style with the brass deflector. FN never provided complete assemblies just replacement barrels (FNMI MP CHROME BORE) and C7 uppers.

A1 (Non C7) uppers encountered on FN barreled rebuilds should be considered as replacements or refinished.

Wpns Man

I've noted that at any given time there are 3-5 times as many guests on AR15.com as there are members.  For that reason, I thought I'd add my email address in case someone viewing my post has information they'd like to share with me but do not want to join AR15.com to do it.  My email address is: [email protected]

The only FN manufactured variant A1 upper receiver I have ever encountered and used as replacements (taken out of the wrapper) were C7 style with the brass deflector. FN never provided complete assemblies just replacement barrels (FNMI MP CHROME BORE) and C7 uppers.

A1 (Non C7) uppers encountered on FN barreled rebuilds should be considered as replacements or refinished.

Wpns Man

Sounds good.  None of the XM16E-1 receiver (rebated black lug with grey finish), round forge,  FNMI MP Chrome Bore barrelled uppers I ever had were Colt proofed but assembled replacement parts makes perfectly good sense.  I assumed FN had put them together to satisfy aspects of contract while they got their A-2 platform rolling and simply purchased others dead stock.   Never have seen one with a C-7 receiver much less a FN receiver NIW except an A-2.  Have seen new flat top FN's without wrap also.  Had 4 of the XM16E1 uppers with FN barrels,  early bend gas tubes,  crown marked FSB on barrel  and mixed assorted rifle HG's.  Except for HG's all were the identical except FSB with crown  had different numbers or letters.  Slip rings were different finish than any I'd ever seen also.  Almost like a cleared over bare metal piece for lack of better description and not typical anodizing.  Basically a mix of parts and pieces bought as surplus assembled upper receivers from same place along with some early proofed square Colts,  SAK's etc.

Does anyone know where I might purchase an original H&R M16A1 upper receiver?

Here are a few pic's of what I was told was an H&R upper I own.  
I'm still not sure if it's a H&R or GM.  Some of the pics are with my 604 Upper for color comparison.

Sorry for the large pics, I''m stilling trying to get the hang of loading images.

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Cool, thanks for posting.  That is what I call the "very round" forging.  (Above and in front of the port door, contours on the left side have a larger radius too)  I think it is the latest forging, if you look at some of the (probably) original condition LE owned ~1970 604s that have shown up on the retro forum lately you can see the similarity in forgings, look at the open arrow where there is a larger gap on the upper "wing" of the arrow.  Yours does not have a rebated front lug so if it is GM / H&R and they followed the same pattern as the Colt upper receivers was made in 1971 or later.  I have seen that color before on what I think was a refinished upper receiver, is there a texture in it like it was bead blasted?  (Inside and out, textured between the barrel nut and front face of the receiver?)  What color is the inside, is it coated in lube?  What about the charging handle, row of dots pressed in the back face?  (I don't see the flat spot on the right side)  What barrel is on it?

ETA: Also, is there a number in a circle cast in the back of the forward assist?

IMO It doesn't looked refinished or bead-blasted, the color appears uniform on all surfaces internal/external.  If it was refinished it was better than most anything I've seen before.
Even the slip ring has a slight color tone.
Wear areas on the inside have changed the color to a grey/bronze mix.
The charge handle doesn't have the dots but has the similar natural bronze color and wear areas look similar to the internal wear colors.
No markings on the backside of the FA button.
Barrel is a "C MP Chrome Bore"
FSC is mark "C"

I'm guessing it was an depot rebuild with mix/match parts, although I'm not sure what Barrels and FSB's H&R used on their rifles.
I'm hoping it's an H&R or GM, as I was someday planning on building an H&R clone.
If anyone knows with certainty what I have please chime in.

Thanks

Some additional pics....
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I have a very similar upper, it has the numbered forward assist, color matched slip ring, and "MP C" barrel with the letters all inline with each other, and a forge code FSB.  Mine has a purple color cast in some lighting:




But looks black in daylight:



In the top pic the take down pin isn't pushed in all the way because the tolerance stack between whoever made the upper and the SGW lower were enough to make it very difficult to push in.  I sanded away material on the pin so it could snake its way past the lug of the upper on its way to the left side of the receiver.  When you push it in it is loose until the very end and firms up just in time.

Any other speculation on what the "MA67" is or means?

I've had a couple people (not AR15.com members) speculate that the "MA67" could be a reference to the state - Massachusetts and the year - 1967.  The rationale being that H&R was located in Worcester, MA and the US Government contract was from 1968 to 1971.  Since H&R had not previously manufactured M16s for the US Government, this might have been a "Pre production sample" sent to the US Government to be evaluated prior to full production starting.  Anybody have any thoughts on this - true, false, maybe?

Does anyone know where I might be able to buy a complete H&R M16A1 upper or just a stripped H&R M16A1 upper?

I'm still looking for more information about this upper.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  
I believe a member by the name of "BoyWonder" in TX may be able to help me ID this upper.  Does anyone know how I might reach this individual so that I can direct them to the post?

hit the email button under the post if you want to chat.

i've seen stamping on the backside under the rear sight but haven't seen any under the carry handle like yours.  the flash isn't as pronounced as other H&Rs.   The finish does look original as the lugs appear shiny in the pics.

the stamping may have been done after anodizing, here's pics of mine that didn't break down to the bare aluminum:



pic of jm0502's upper


it's a mystery upper.  can't say conclusively what it is and the theories in this thread are as good as any.  unmarked colt replacement where the forging wasn't cleaned up to a h&r that was cleaned up a little more than others.

Thanks so much boywonder for posting the pictures and giving me your thoughts on the upper I have.  I appreciate it.

Does anyone have any additional thoughts on what the "MA67" means?  Speculation welcome.  It does not look like there will be any definitive answers to this question.

Still hoping to hear from someone that can explain what the "MA67" stamping on my upper receiver means.  Thanks to all who have posted thoughts and information.  With over 2100 views of this post, surely someone has something to add.  If you are looking at this post and not an AR15.com member, please feel free to email me your thoughts directly.  My email address is: [email protected].  Thanks again for everyone's assistance in solving this puzzle.

I will glad to speculate:

Been stated that no US military branches including National Guard would die stamp items but instead would paint or sticker them with needed numbers.

I am not sure if any private Military Academy uses M16 or clones in their training, or did use retro clones in the past. This is almost certain to be from some institution, police or otherwise that used then upgraded or decommed possibly a large number of rifles. I doubt the 67 is a year designation, more likely a rack number or company number for a fairly large number of rifles in one place.  But if it was part of a large decomm you would think more like this would turn up.

So you ran across this initially about Dec 2013 ?

I bought this upper from Gunny's Surplus in Union, OH October 8th of 2013.  He said that he had bought this upper recently (a week or so before) at a gun show.   When I purchased the upper, he thought it was an H&R but had never seen the "MA67" stamping before and was not sure what it was.  He also sold me a new Colt C MP B 20" barrel.  This barrel may or may not have come from the same seller.

Any more thoughts Yankee-V?