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Posted: 4/18/2014 9:37:05 AM EDT
My local gun store knows I look for old Colt AR parts and rifles. They had this put aside for me to look at. What is it? All A2 parts, except the barrel?
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Posted: 4/18/2014 9:38:48 AM EDT
[#1]
Colt Automatic Rifle or LMG upper, on a Match Target lower.
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Posted: 4/18/2014 9:48:53 AM EDT
[#2]
Those uppers are not cheap, even by themselves. I paid $219 just for the upper receiver. The complete uppers with bipod are pretty expensive. They use a larger gas tube IIRC, but the gas tube hole on mine looks normal, which makes me wonder. I haven't measured it with micrometers though.
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Posted: 4/18/2014 9:49:11 AM EDT
[#3]
Thanks for the quick reply. Is the upper rare? Worth much with the wrong lower?
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Posted: 4/18/2014 9:55:40 AM EDT
[#4]
They aren't much in demand, except for guys who have RRs - they were designed as an open bolt, LMG - heavy barrel etc. You'll have to look around, but IIRC, the uppers with bipods go for around $1500 - maybe more, maybe less, I just don't remember. If it's a good deal, you could peddle the upper and score a Colt Match lower for nothing.
 I know Autoweapons.com had some for sale, but they are always high. Google 'Colt LMG upper' and you should get some hits.
ETA: Autoweapons has one listed for $4495 - I see other listings for around $2K - autoweapons is high on everything. $2k complete upper sounds about right. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 10:03:37 AM EDT
[#5]
Make sure it's Colt if you're going to buy it as there are aftermarket versions of them as well that are more common and cheaper.
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Posted: 4/18/2014 10:03:54 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If it's a good deal, you could peddle the upper and score a Colt Match lower for nothing. ETA: Autoweapons has one listed for $4495 - I see other listings for around $2K - autoweapons is high on everything. $2k complete upper sounds about right. You were reading my mind. I can get the whole rifle for much less then $2,000 if that is what they are truley selling for. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 10:05:17 AM EDT
[#7]
I wouldn't mind buying it if you don't.
I could use the LMG upper on my M16 make sure its not Vulcan. 
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Posted: 4/18/2014 10:20:36 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Make sure it's Colt if you're going to buy it as there are aftermarket versions of them as well that are more common and cheaper. Yes it looks aftermarket. Factory LMGs didn't have the M60 bipod as far as I know. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 10:20:40 AM EDT
[#9]
COLT RO-750, pretty cool, A2 without a forward assist because of open bolt firing (in the actual machine gun). I remember seeing distributors pitch them as Colt Heavy Barrels (not HBAR) and CDNN (I think) selling them eventually for a pretty decent price once no one wanted them. Should have bought a few. Kind of remember seeing an ad with the bipod (with holes). It's been a long time.
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Posted: 4/18/2014 10:22:29 AM EDT
[#10]
AFAIK, Colt is the only one who made an A2 upper like that w/o forward assist, but having the Brunton Bump. I would still check it for Colt proof marks. If you could get the whole thing for under $2k and it's all Colt, I'd do it, then sell the upper, perhaps w/o the BCG.
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Posted: 4/18/2014 2:29:07 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes it looks aftermarket. Factory LMGs didn't have the M60 bipod as far as I know. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Make sure it's Colt if you're going to buy it as there are aftermarket versions of them as well that are more common and cheaper. Yes it looks aftermarket. Factory LMGs didn't have the M60 bipod as far as I know. A check of the gas tube diameter will tell the tale - the actual diameter of a factory LMG tube is 0.2530. Some transitional uppers were upgraded with the M60 bipod. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 2:57:11 PM EDT
[#12]
The distinguishing feature of an authentic Colt LMG upper is lack of a forward assist.
These uppers were designed to fire from an open bolt and accidentally bumping a forward assist with the bolt back would be very dangerous. Some came with M60 bipods...some even came with M60 flash hiders. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 2:59:30 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
AFAIK, Colt is the only one who made an A2 upper like that w/o forward assist, but having the Brunton Bump. I would still check it for Colt proof marks. If you could get the whole thing for under $2k and it's all Colt, I'd do it, then sell the upper, perhaps w/o the BCG. Why without the BCG? Open bolt carriers are hard to find. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 3:18:00 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why without the BCG? Open bolt carriers are hard to find. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
AFAIK, Colt is the only one who made an A2 upper like that w/o forward assist, but having the Brunton Bump. I would still check it for Colt proof marks. If you could get the whole thing for under $2k and it's all Colt, I'd do it, then sell the upper, perhaps w/o the BCG. Why without the BCG? Open bolt carriers are hard to find. I highly doubt the rifle the OP found is running an open bolt BCG. AFAIK the open bolt won't even work with regular AR15 FCG. I meant save the BCG if it's a normal Colt, to use in his build - sell off the rest of the upper. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 3:32:47 PM EDT
[#15]
I would concur with the rest of group - if it's authentic and you can grab a good deal - no reason not to snatch it.
However, I would be very cautious about it being a fake - hard to really tell based on the photographs you've posted. The other side of the upper, particularly proofs - forging/manufacturer's marks, and presence/absence of a forward assist, and whether or not it has a roll pin or is simply pressed in would be good things to check. Barrel markings will also be a big one. IIRC - and the LMG/LSW variants are not my "forte," but I thought I remembered that all LMG/LSW barrels were manufactured by Diemaco, so instead of the typical "C MP" marking, they should have the Devtek "stylized" triangular "D" marking. BCG-wise some of the LMG-types were designed to be fired from an open bolt - some from a closed bolt. ~Augee |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 3:40:47 PM EDT
[#16]
I'll be headed back to take another look at it. I did not take a picture, but I thought it was weird it had a bump, but no forward assist. I'll need to double check the price again. The mag was not Colt, I checked.
So I should be checking for proof marks on the upper and barrel. Anything else I should be looking for? |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 3:52:15 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes it looks aftermarket. Factory LMGs didn't have the M60 bipod as far as I know. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Make sure it's Colt if you're going to buy it as there are aftermarket versions of them as well that are more common and cheaper. Yes it looks aftermarket. Factory LMGs didn't have the M60 bipod as far as I know. What TGus said ^^^^^^^ |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 4:01:14 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll be headed back to take another look at it. I did not take a picture, but I thought it was weird it had a bump, but no forward assist. I'll need to double check the price again. The mag was not Colt, I checked. So I should be checking for proof marks on the upper and barrel. Anything else I should be looking for? ETA barrel markings photo. Check the upper, barrel and BCG for the Diemaco stamp as seen below: 
The square handguards should have a somewhat shiny look to them. See if the lower has a hydraulic buffer as seen below: 
A LMG bolt carrier will have a large sear notch machined in the bottom...as seen below: 
Barrel markings: 
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Posted: 4/18/2014 4:03:55 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I highly doubt the rifle the OP found is running an open bolt BCG. AFAIK the open bolt won't even work with regular AR15 FCG. I meant save the BCG if it's a normal Colt, to use in his build - sell off the rest of the upper. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
AFAIK, Colt is the only one who made an A2 upper like that w/o forward assist, but having the Brunton Bump. I would still check it for Colt proof marks. If you could get the whole thing for under $2k and it's all Colt, I'd do it, then sell the upper, perhaps w/o the BCG. Why without the BCG? Open bolt carriers are hard to find. I highly doubt the rifle the OP found is running an open bolt BCG. AFAIK the open bolt won't even work with regular AR15 FCG. I meant save the BCG if it's a normal Colt, to use in his build - sell off the rest of the upper. The open bolt carrier will work with a standard AR15 FCG. He could actually sell the open bolt carrier for more than a standard carrier. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 4:06:07 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The open bolt carrier will work with a standard AR15 FCG. He could actually sell the open bolt carrier for more than a standard carrier. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
AFAIK, Colt is the only one who made an A2 upper like that w/o forward assist, but having the Brunton Bump. I would still check it for Colt proof marks. If you could get the whole thing for under $2k and it's all Colt, I'd do it, then sell the upper, perhaps w/o the BCG. Why without the BCG? Open bolt carriers are hard to find. I highly doubt the rifle the OP found is running an open bolt BCG. AFAIK the open bolt won't even work with regular AR15 FCG. I meant save the BCG if it's a normal Colt, to use in his build - sell off the rest of the upper. The open bolt carrier will work with a standard AR15 FCG. He could actually sell the open bolt carrier for more than a standard carrier. I did not know that. Learn something every day. In that case, I would definitely sell the open bolt BCG. I've seen quite a few of these for sale with no BCG though. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 4:58:13 PM EDT
[#21]
How much does that thing weigh?
Moon |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 8:04:48 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How much does that thing weigh? Moon It was very heavy... |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 2:35:30 AM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 4/19/2014 6:04:27 AM EDT
[#24]
I guess I was thinking the open bolt BCG and FCG would have been similar to the M231. Anyone know what the cyclic rate of the LMG was?
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Posted: 4/19/2014 6:25:32 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess I was thinking the open bolt BCG and FCG would have been similar to the M231. Anyone know what the cyclic rate of the LMG was? I was thinkin the same thing anyone willing to compare the two open bolt systems so we can see the how there different |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 8:02:02 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was thinkin the same thing anyone willing to compare the two open bolt systems so we can see the how there different You can google pictures of the 231 bcg/fcg pretty quickly. M231 has no auto sear, and the firing pin is in a weighted striker/slider inside the bolt carrier - it's a slam fire, rotating locked bolt, gas operated machinegun. LMG still has a (modified) auto sear and separate hammer. Except that the firing cycle starts from an open bolt position, its operation is otherwise a lot like the regular M16... Bolt carrier goes forward into battery while auto sear holds hammer back. Bolt carrier trips auto sear, releasing hammer into firing pin. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 9:37:23 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can google pictures of the 231 bcg/fcg pretty quickly. M231 has no auto sear, and the firing pin is in a weighted striker/slider inside the bolt carrier - it's a slam fire, rotating locked bolt, gas operated machinegun. LMG still has a (modified) auto sear and separate hammer. Except that the firing cycle starts from an open bolt position, its operation is otherwise a lot like the regular M16... Bolt carrier goes forward into battery while auto sear holds hammer back. Bolt carrier trips auto sear, releasing hammer into firing pin. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I was thinkin the same thing anyone willing to compare the two open bolt systems so we can see the how there different You can google pictures of the 231 bcg/fcg pretty quickly. M231 has no auto sear, and the firing pin is in a weighted striker/slider inside the bolt carrier - it's a slam fire, rotating locked bolt, gas operated machinegun. LMG still has a (modified) auto sear and separate hammer. Except that the firing cycle starts from an open bolt position, its operation is otherwise a lot like the regular M16... Bolt carrier goes forward into battery while auto sear holds hammer back. Bolt carrier trips auto sear, releasing hammer into firing pin. Well, I just assumed they were similar. You see what it got me.  I saw no way the M231 BCG would work with a regular FCG. I have never seen pics of a LMG BCG until today. THis is why I keep coming here: always something to learn.
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Posted: 4/19/2014 10:34:43 AM EDT
[#28]
I have never seen pics of a LMG BCG until today. THis is why I keep coming here: always something to learn.
Same here. Only 2:30 PM and learned something on a Sat. I'd seen the LMG BCG's but never really paid any attention to detail. Is another piece of the AR platform puzzle that will probably disengage my coins from my fingers. Guessing OP is trying to buy right now. The authentic LMG pieces do command top coins generally. Have seen some clones but I really appreciate the pics of markings and details as I was actually clueless. SOCOM barrel was about as LMG related as I usually get aside from 606 clone w/ bipod. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 12:56:47 PM EDT
[#29]
Thanks for all the data... Second look with a much better feel for what I was looking at shows me it is a kit. The barrel is correctly stamped and the hand guards are correct, but everything else is A2. I was completely wrong on the upper. Forward assist, C7 Delmonico stamping. It does have M60 legs, buffer is rifle, bolt is standard.
I was looking to buy, but walked away... |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 1:46:47 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anyone know what the cyclic rate of the LMG was? Approx 650rpm. |
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Posted: 4/21/2014 6:38:43 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for all the data... Second look with a much better feel for what I was looking at shows me it is a kit. The barrel is correctly stamped and the hand guards are correct, but everything else is A2. I was completely wrong on the upper. Forward assist, C7 Delmonico stamping. It does have M60 legs, buffer is rifle, bolt is standard. I was looking to buy, but walked away... So it did not have the heavy gas tube? I understand this as yes. I was considering to buy it but I too may pass. I need it to hold up to some heat. I may not be happy unless I settle with a shrike 
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Posted: 4/21/2014 7:18:15 PM EDT
[#32]
Looked standard, guy at the store said it was correct and large. He felt it was a Canada demill kit. He believed that from the delta ring forward was correct except the legs. We were looking things up together on the web. I just saw there was no margin in it and the asking price was probably market value. That thing is heavy! Might be worth a call just to be sure.
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