User Panel
I just spent an hour at a former BATF agent's house looking over his MG collection (regiatered). He has a registered Qualified Manufacturing AR10 Sudanese model in almost new condition, but he also has some spare parts that he bought from Dolf Goldsmith when Dolf (ARPAC) dissolved the Armalite collection back in the 1980's.
After being bribed with Dismal Swamp beer (brand of local brew), he brought out his spares collection, which included some very early AR10 stuff. From specifically looking at the handguards and a buttstock, the cross section looks like there is an outer layer of plastic like material, which is backed with a fiberglass matte with heavy adhesive layer and a thin metal heat shield. It does not look like the metal foil that is referenced. It is fairly light compared to a M4 handguard of today, but it is now pretty brittle when not on a upper. Buttstocks look the same, but the buttplate looks like it has seen much better times. Inner foam looks terrible after almost 60 years as it has yellowed heavily and started to go bad. If you tap along the stock, you hear when there have been voids forming. Love the Sudanese model, but I was horrified to find that he had an almost new upper cut down by a local gunsmith into a carbine clone, since he fell in love with that size from seeing one posted on this very forum. Seems BATF agents like to cruise AR15.com also. If I can convince him to let me take some pics, I will post them up here. He has never fired this piece as no one at BATF knew that he had them registered to his wife's name, since there was a time that it was frowned on for agents to have certain types of weapons - go figure. |
|
Frank: What is "Qualified Manufacturing AR10 Sudanese model" ? Was Qualified Manufacturing an outfit that did conversions?
And please give more background on ARPAC and that Armalite collection? Never heard of it - want to know more. |
|
Qualified Manufacturing was a Class 2 manufacturer out of Oklahoma. They basically concentrated on H&K's and Uzi's but they also seemed to run into more exotic guns like AR10's, Rewelded AK47's and even a Mag 58. The first company was run by a gentleman named Parker, and later a second company was run by a gentlemen named Arville Sellmeyer. Arville was a great guy to deal with. Mr. Parker, not so much. If you bought a gun from Arville, you knew it was a legit, custom built or assembled gun - the other company, it was probably an unregistered gun or bring back that was paper registered and not a rebuilt gun or rewat. I am sure there are many people who do not feel that way, but I bought a Chinese AK47 that was supposed to be an Amnesty registered war trophy and even in 1983 it was going for big bucks - $3000, but I later found out from BATF that it was registered on a Form 2 in 1983 - so it should have only been a $800 gun.
Dolph Goldsmith was a Class 3 dealer from California who was pretty good to deal with. He moved his operation from Calif (Bay Area) to Texas when the Cali laws changed. He had deep roots in Cali and bought and sold through the 1960's through 1980's. He has authored several books concentrating on the Maxim, Vickers, Browning MGs all by Collector Grade Pubs. His company was called ARPAC. AMong other great guns he sold through the years, he also sold off a bunch of Armalite's guns from after the business was dissolved and sold to the PI/Elisco Tool. He had a bunch of AR18's, some Ar10's and other stuff. Knight got most of the stuff, but all of the weird AR18's were split up. |
|
FrankSPPD, I know you are no stranger to this forum, but let me say that it has been wonderful reading your posts the last few weeks. I liken it to blundering around in a semi-dark room and having someone come in with a flashlight and point out something that was right in front of you. We are first and foremost history junkies, and these pics by armeiro, illuminated by your experience are very much appreciated, and I am sure I am speaking for everyone on the forum. Hearing insider information like this is very, very interesting. Thanks for sharing your experiences and expertise. - Morg
|
|
Quoted:
FrankSPPD, I know you are no stranger to this forum, but let me say that it has been wonderful reading your posts the last few weeks. I liken it to blundering around in a semi-dark room and having someone come in with a flashlight and point out something that was right in front of you. We are first and foremost history junkies, and these pics by armeiro, illuminated by your experience are very much appreciated, and I am sure I am speaking for everyone on the forum. Hearing insider information like this is very, very interesting. Thanks for sharing your experiences and expertise. - Morg View Quote ^^^^DITTO^^^^ |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
FrankSPPD, I know you are no stranger to this forum, but let me say that it has been wonderful reading your posts the last few weeks. I liken it to blundering around in a semi-dark room and having someone come in with a flashlight and point out something that was right in front of you. We are first and foremost history junkies, and these pics by armeiro, illuminated by your experience are very much appreciated, and I am sure I am speaking for everyone on the forum. Hearing insider information like this is very, very interesting. Thanks for sharing your experiences and expertise. - Morg ^^^^DITTO^^^^ Third |
|
Quoted:
Take a note at the barrels used in the ArmaLite AR-10 used in the Springfield Armory. This one is from 4 Dec 1956 http://ww3.rediscov.com/springar/full/12469-SA.A.1.jpg This one is from 16 Jan 1957 http://ww3.rediscov.com/springar/full/12585-SA.A.1.jpg This one is from 29 Jan 1957 http://ww3.rediscov.com/springar/full/12639-SA.A.1.jpg The one in the images from 4 Dec 1956 and 16 Jan 1957,is this the original aluminum/steel composite barrel as the one in the image from 29 Jan 1957 is the steel barrel? This 15 Jan 1957 image is of the AR-10 barrel burst,so the one in the 29 Jan 1957 may be the steel barrel. http://ww3.rediscov.com/springar/full/12589-SA.A.1.jpg View Quote "ORDBD-TX 21 February 1957 SUBJECT : Setter Report on Limited Firing Test of Rifle, Caliber 7 .62mm, Armalite AR-10, No . 1002 With All Steel Barrel TO : Commanding General, Ordnance Weapons Command, Rock Island, Illinois ATTENTION : ORDOW-TX 1 . Reference is made to Springfield Armory report TR11-1091 (no copy of it, at the armory, now LTC), dated 4 February 1957 which covers the Armory tests performed with the Armalite Rifle, AR-10 . This rifle incorporates a composite steel and aluminum barrel . The purpose of this letter is to report on tests performed at Springfield Armory with Armalite Rifle, AR-10, No . 1002, modified to incorporate an all steel barrel . This design was evolved by Armalite after the composite steel and aluminum barrel ruptured in the course of the Armory tests covered in TR11-1091 . 2 . The modified rifle submitted to Springfield Armory by the Armalite Division of Fairchild Engine and Airplane Corp ., was subjected to the following tests in accordance with teletyped instructions from Eq, Ordnance Weapons Command, dated 21 January 1957 : a. High Temperature Test ; b . Humidity Test ; c . Sub-Zero Test ; d . Accuracy Test ; e . Rain Test ; f . Sustained Firing Test ; g . Rough Handling Test With the exception of the Sub-Zero Temperature Test, the Armalite Rifle was not previously subjected to the above listed tests . 3 . Rifle go . 1002, the rifle which had experienced a barrel failure, was rebarreled with a fluted barrel fabricated from ORD-4150 type steel . The general configuration of the barrel was not changed. However, the barrel is all steel rather than built up of a steel tube (wall thickness : 0 .145" LTC) and a fluted aluminum jacket . Weight of the modified rifle witbout a magazine was 7 .01 pounds compared to 7 .18 pounds with the composite barrel . The basic steel wall was at least as thick as before but the steel ribs were much thinner than the aluminum ribs . 4 . The subject rifle was fire& a total of 2089 rounds (all steel barrel) . Of this total, 407 rounds were fired under non-adverse conditions with two light blow (see section "7 .", below LTC) malfunctions occurring . A total of 1689 round was fired under adverse conditions with generally satisfactory results, except in the sub-temperature tests . A total of 20 malfunctions occurred during these adverse tests as follows : POR-1 " TFR-5 ; BC-2 ; LB-1 ; MF-1 ; FJ(RF)-1 ; BFH-2 (action seized) ; BFR-5 ; FF-2 . Total 20 (See Table I for explanation of abbreviated malfunction categories) . During the firing tests, there was one part broken . This was the hammer, buffer disc after 602 rounds had been fired . 5 . The SOP for these tests was followed except for a condensation of the humidity tests to permit completion in the time the climatic facility was available . 6 . The firing record is presented in detail in Table II . A summary of the results by tests are presented below : a . High Temperature Test . Satisfactory function (160 degrees F . LTC) . b . Humidity Test . 1unetions which occurred are not attributed to test con ditions . e misfeed" malfunction and the "engaging of the bolt during the automatic burst" malfunctions were probably induced by the firing jack . One "light blow" malfunction occurred - cause unknown . Fired cases were found to be creased on the body . Inspection of the barrel breech end disclosed to the Armalite representative that the chamber entrance lacked a radius . The radius was put on the barrel, after the humidity test was completed, and creasing of cases was reduced c . Sub-Zero Tem erature Test . The weapon becomes unserviceable at sub-zero temperature - degrees , see Table II, for details LTC) . Twice the action seized during the firing phases and required extreme effort to free the action . Even with the weapon stripped in a jack, the action could not be manually opened A lanyard was required . Once freed, the action functioned satisfactorily . d . Accurac Test . Three ten-shot, 100 yard accuracy targets wera fired from a muzzle an e ow position. Accuracy was satisfactory with the following average results : E .S . - 5.7 inches ; M.R. - 1 .6 inches . e . Rain Test . Function was satisfactory with only two "failure-to-feed" malfunctions occurring . These malfunctions could have been due to over power . The cyclic rate of the weapon during the Rain Test was approximately 50 spm faster than normal . The use of lubriplate probably caused the rate increase . f . Sustained Firing Test . The weapon functioned satisfactorily . detail- Table III give ed results re a-ive to temperature rise in various components during the sustained firing test . The weapon was found deficient in the left side of the handguard quickly became uncomfortable to hold (early handguard design had only minimal heat venting capability LTC) . Immediately after 600 rounds, one round was fed into the chamber to cook-off . Cook-off did not occur and after waiting five minutes, the round was intentionally triggered off . g . Rough Handling Stock . The weapon was serviceable at the conclusion of this test . 7. During the Humidity Test, a light blow occurred, the source of which was not determinable . Firing pin protrusion and firing pin indent were measured with the following results : a . Firing pin protrusion - 0 .03'7 inch ; b . Firing pin indent - 0 .0194 inch . During the rate check phase following the sub-zero temperature test, two additional light blows occurred . A new automatic fire pawl and the firing pin from Rifle Rio . 1004 (Table II gives No . 1009 LTC) were assembled (firing pin protrusion - 0 .0465 inch) . No additional light blows occurred during the firing of 1378 rounds . 8 . The test was completed on 30 January 1957 and the weapons were taken by the Armalite representative . Roy E . Rayle, Lt Col, Ord Corp" AR-10er 1983-10-01 The steel barrel was lighter then the composite barrel "Weight of the modified rifle witbout a magazine was 7 .01 pounds compared to 7 .18 pounds with the composite barrel .",and parts from the 1004 were cannibalized to be used in the 1002 "A new automatic fire pawl and the firing pin from Rifle no . 1004 were assembled.",the forearm from the 1004 may have been used in the 1002. |
|
Wow!
Like others said, this is an amazing treasure trove of historic info, thanks Frank and Armeiro!
|
|
Armeiro
A long time Armalite collector who I know advises that the front sight on the unserialized Boutelle AR10 was carried over onto AR10A SN 1005, which currently sits in Reed Knight collection wearing a modified upper, which is a quick change barrel with bipod. See the following Youtube vid: MOve to 4.45 and specifically 4:48 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pgMh45kr7s We now know that the Boutelle rifle WAS one of the first AR10A's made, and since the uppers were interchangeable on the Hollywood AR10's - we may probably hypothesize that a prototype quick change barrel was added to 1005, and it has a similar front sight to the Boutelle rifle, only it has had a front sight hood added and it is fully finished, which is more in line with the later front sights. The front sight looks like a tool room job on Boutelle's rifle, and would allow a heavier duty sight tower for the rigors of quick change durability - which is nicely pictured in the following: See bottom of Page 71, Small Arm Review April 2009, Vol 12, No. 7 - Interview of former Armalite Engineer Arthur Miller. That AR10A also does not appear to have a serial number as these rifles seem to have had the markings filled in with paint, but Mr Miller's left hand may be obscuring it. What do you all think? |
|
I dont have the "Small Arm Review April 2009, Vol 12, No. 7 ".
|
|
|
|
Quoted:
Armeiro A long time Armalite collector who I know advises that the front sight on the unserialized Boutelle AR10 was carried over onto AR10A SN 1005, which currently sits in Reed Knight collection wearing a modified upper, which is a quick change barrel with bipod. See the following Youtube vid: MOve to 4.45 and specifically 4:48 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pgMh45kr7s We now know that the Boutelle rifle WAS one of the first AR10A's made, and since the uppers were interchangeable on the Hollywood AR10's - we may probably hypothesize that a prototype quick change barrel was added to 1005, and it has a similar front sight to the Boutelle rifle, only it has had a front sight hood added and it is fully finished, which is more in line with the later front sights. The front sight looks like a tool room job on Boutelle's rifle, and would allow a heavier duty sight tower for the rigors of quick change durability - which is nicely pictured in the following: See bottom of Page 71, Small Arm Review April 2009, Vol 12, No. 7 - Interview of former Armalite Engineer Arthur Miller. That AR10A also does not appear to have a serial number as these rifles seem to have had the markings filled in with paint, but Mr Miller's left hand may be obscuring it. What do you all think? View Quote The upper receiver in the Boutelle AR-10B prototype as a diferent geometry from the Hollywood AR10 upper,the joint section between the upper and lower in the AR-10B prototype is diferent from the one used in the Hollywood AR10 and AR-15. The upper receiver gas key section in the AR-10B prototype is longer then with the AR-10B 1001/1002/1003/1004/etc. The front sight in the AR-10B prototype does not have the exposed gas block (to fit the gas tube in) section on the left side,as it is all covered inside the sight structure. The forearm in the AR-10B prototype (as with the AR-10A X03) as two lines of small diameter cooling holes on top and under. The forearm in the AR-10B 1001 (Samuel Cummings) as two lines of larger cooling holes on top and under. The forearm in the AR-10B 1002/1003/1004/etc, as one line on cooling holes on top and under,this as used in the pre Springfield Armory tests (i think) as one of the problems with this forearm was that it got too hot as there was no cooling holes over the left side over the gas tube,this AR-10B was the first genereation with the covered front sight. The AR-10B with the open front sight is the improved version,it came after the Springfield Armory tests and it takes on improvements over the first generation AR-10B,it as a forearm with cooling holes on top/under/left/right sides,it as a stronger dust cover and dust cover cam cut in the carrier,etc. In this image one can see,what i hope to be a chronological display of the units by code number. X02 X03 (AR-10A) AR-10B 1001 (Samuel Cummings) AR-10B 1002 (Springfield Armory test) AR-10B 1003 AR-10B 1004 (Springfield Armory test and LMG/new forearm and "can") AR-10B 1005 AR-10B 1006 (improved version post Springfield Armory test/the forearm as cooling holes on top/under/left/right and the new open front sight) |
|
Note that the AR-10B fired by E.Stoner in the Fairchild ArmaLite Film as a front sight with no base for the "can",normaly the ones that are made to use the "can",the covered sights from the first generation as the ones from the second generation with the open sight are made to use the "can",but this one in the film doesnt.
In the image,from the top,rifle n2 and n5 (and the LMG),have the simpler front sight not made to use the "can". |
|
Page 81, Small Arm Review April 2009, Vol 12, No. 7 - Interview of former Armalite Engineer Arthur Miller
There is a B&W picture of General Sidney Hinds of WW2 fame firing a belt fed AR10, which is pictured in the photo the second from the bottom, but the bipod is missing from the barrel along with the front grip, which should be folding. Glad I rediscovered this issue. |
|
Quoted:
Top image,the ArmaLite AR-10B 1004 as a LMG mockup (after the Springfield Armory tests) for the ArmaLite-Fairchild photography. It started as a AR-10B rifle but (after the Springfield Armory) it was then turned in to a AR-10B mockup LMG,as a way to show the things to come,this was to explore the possibility of having a AR-10 LMG. http://i49.tinypic.com/2zdtxfq.jpg View Quote Mockup,but only as a belt fed Light Machine Gun as the fed mechanism pictured in the image does nor work,but it works fine as a magazine fed Automatic rifle as the Browning Automatic Rifle. |
|
This AR-10B is the #1003,note that the "can" is diferent from the ones used in the #1001/1002/1004 (original one,not the LMG that it got after Sringfield)/1005.The tip of the "can" in this #1003 is longer and straight at the front,the ones in #1001/1002/1004/1005 have a shorter tip and a rounded front.This #1003 can be seen in the ArmaLite-Fairchild advertising "Cover-Girl".
Note that in the lower right side of the photo there is a #103,possibly as a reference to #1003. The AR-10B on the cover of GUNS Magazine March 1957 and holded by Richard Boutelle,is the AR-10B #1003. #1001-Samuel Cummings #1002-Springfield Armory #1003-ArmaLite-Fairchild "Cover-Girl" #1004-Springfield Armory #1005 |
|
Holy.... Well I'm convinced, going to attempt an AR-10 "Hollywood" Clone. This should be fun since I have no idea where to begin and I know this is going to rob me of my funds for my AK-47 build, but oh well...
|
|
|
"The toughest job for Sullivan's team developing the AR-10 was to design a new bolt assembly that would not infringe on existing patents and also, where possible,improve on existing designs ."
"Indeed, in these operating parts of the gun is the only use of rustable ferrous metals . Parts of the trigger group including the hammer, and the locking lugs and bolt assembly, are steel. In some cases this is for strength ; in one instance it is simply to provide the necessary weight in a phenomenally light mechanism . A definite mass is required in the moving bolt assembly to provide enough energy to load and cock, in recoiling after unlocking, and the carrier sleeve is of steel . All steel parts are non corrosive treated." "According to Richard Boutelle, president of Fairchild Engine and Airplane Corporation and prime mover in the Armalite project the AR-10 becomes slightly sluggish after 500 to a 1000 rounds have been fired without cleaning ." So,was the AR-10 bolt made out of steel or aluminium? "While the AR-10's are going through the hoops at Springfield Armory and Aberdeen proving ground, we put a couple over the jumps in a brief comparison test, using a fine German FG-42 paratrooper's 8 mm machine rifle as a control . The weather was miserable, and all guns got excellent rain tests. Exhaustive firing was not possible with either of three Armalite guns,a standard autoloading sporting rifle resembling the test T-47 in external appearance, and the two AR-10 machine rifles ." "... standard autoloading sporting rifle resembling the test T-47 in external appearance..." This as the ArmaLite AR-3. |
|
"While the AR-10's are going through the hoops at Springfield Armory and Aberdeen proving ground..."
Two AR-10B rifles were sent to the Springfield Armory tests (#2/#4),what rifles were sent to the Aberdeen Proving Ground tests? #1001/#1002/#1003/#1004/#1005,#1 went to Samuel Cummings,#2 and #4 went to the S.A. tests,were #3 and #5 sent to the Aberdeen Proving Ground tests,or the ones sent to the S.A. are the same one sent to the Aberdeen Proving Ground tests? "Armalite has produced AR-10 rifles for: 5 - Prototype Development 5 - Springfield Armory Tests and other demonstrations 5 - Austrian Tests 5 - German Tests 2 - U. S. Marine Corps Tests 3 - Fairchild-Armalite Demonstrations 25 - For world-wide sales agents demonstrations Total 50 (A substantial production for a 3-room shop with minimum facilities)" "...In February and May, 1957,the same AR-10 rifle that went through the Springfield Armory endurance tests was taken to Europe and demonstrated to certain countries..." "...This rifle performed perfectly through all these demonstrations and now with over 20,000 rounds fired is still in excellent condition (Springfield Armory endurance tests required 6,000 rounds)..." AR-10er 1984-02-01 |
|
Quoted:
"While the AR-10's are going through the hoops at Springfield Armory and Aberdeen proving ground..." Two AR-10B rifles were sent to the Springfield Armory tests (#2/#4),what rifles were sent to the Aberdeen Proving Ground tests? #1001/#1002/#1003/#1004/#1005,#1 went to Samuel Cummings,#2 and #4 went to the S.A. tests,were #3 and #5 sent to the Aberdeen Proving Ground tests,or the ones sent to the S.A. are the same one sent to the Aberdeen Proving Ground tests? "Armalite has produced AR-10 rifles for: 5 - Prototype Development 5 - Springfield Armory Tests and other demonstrations 5 - Austrian Tests 5 - German Tests 2 - U. S. Marine Corps Tests 3 - Fairchild-Armalite Demonstrations 25 - For world-wide sales agents demonstrations Total 50 (A substantial production for a 3-room shop with minimum facilities)" "...In February and May, 1957,the same AR-10 rifle that went through the Springfield Armory endurance tests was taken to Europe and demonstrated to certain countries..." "...This rifle performed perfectly through all these demonstrations and now with over 20,000 rounds fired is still in excellent condition (Springfield Armory endurance tests required 6,000 rounds)..." AR-10er 1984-02-01 View Quote "Armalite has produced AR-10 rifles for: 5 - Prototype Development 5 - Springfield Armory Tests and other demonstrations..." The 5 ArmaLite AR-10 units used on the "Springfield Armory Tests and other demonstrations" were #1001 to #1005,so why is there a reference to previous 5 units? If the "5 - Prototype Development" are the original prototypes...they were the X01/X02/X03 (AR-10A)/AR-10B Prototype,is there one other AR-10 prototype missing? Units #1001/#1002/#1003/#1004/#1005 have the front sight covered and have the but stock/forearm/pistol grip covered by the plastic coating,they were used in the S.A. tests and demonstrations. The next # units have some diferences as the open front sight,(in some of then) the pistol grip as the Bakelite exposed and the forearm and but stock as the Fiberglass cloth is visible,the "can" is slightly different from the ones used in the previous 5 units,some have the hole in the upper receiver. From this photo (ar10.nl) from the German AR-10 test,one of the "5 - German Tests" units can be seen. |
|
I do not think all the tests were done with different weapons.
The first tests were done at Ft Benning with the AR10A (model with sliding upper and lower receiver and combo front sight and muzzle brake aka SN X03) in Dec 1955. I think Armalite used 1-2 weapons for tests like Marine Corps, Springfield and Aberdeen. The German and Austrian tests were done with later produced models, you can see those in the SAR article by Arthur Miller - since there is a mix of muzzle brake and non-brake models. But most have Hollywood hump back style uppers, but the captions on pictures show they were Dutch made AR10s (listed as AR10A1's). The sales samples were going to be later models outside of the samples sold to the original investors/sales people like Cummings, Michault (Sidem), Cooper McDonald and others. Even Val Forgett/Navy Arms had a sales sample gun, but it was later cuban/Sudanese model. Whether he ever got one of the Hollywood models - I do not know. Dave Cumberland wrote about getting a sales sample AR10 to do the Thailand demos with - but it is not disclosed what model he got. I think he got a Sudanese model, since the Siamese/Thai deal went under about the same time A/I lost their bid on the Dutch Rifle contract and Armalite went to Colt to make/sell the AR's. There were less than 50 of the Hollywood models made, but that does not count the X model prototypes. Hollywood was a basic shop, but the prototypes were originally made in either Gene Stoner's garage shop or George Sullivans garage shop, which you can see if you check his Hollywood residence address. They did not move to the Santa Monica Blvd shop until Fairchild put money into the company - or that was my impression. The million and one half USD that went into Armalite would have paid for the prototypes and first production run and then all the support that goes into developing the product to include the later models and Dutch trips and sales arrangements. Nothing is ever said about what guns went to Sidem (who sold a lot of AR10's - since Michault was a partner in Armalite at the beginning and got all the low serial number Ar15's.) Even the actual sales samples that Interarmco got outside of #1001 were higher number guns. Even then, the Nicaraguan tests were done with 1001 since the tests failed when the bolt fractured - which was a problem with all the early prototypes - see Art Miller article from SAR. Serial Number 00030 gun was tested by the Army in 1958 and it is a Dutch made Cuban or Sudanese model - so did Dutch production restart with serial number 00001? Probably. |
|
Was that AR10 or AR15 bolts that were fracturing? I don't have the Art Miller article in SAR at hand. Is that from an issue in 2009 where he discussed the AR-18?
Do you know if they were using 8620 steel for the AR10 bolts? |
|
Quoted:
I do not think all the tests were done with different weapons. The first tests were done at Ft Benning with the AR10A (model with sliding upper and lower receiver and combo front sight and muzzle brake aka SN X03) in Dec 1955. I think Armalite used 1-2 weapons for tests like Marine Corps, Springfield and Aberdeen. The German and Austrian tests were done with later produced models, you can see those in the SAR article by Arthur Miller - since there is a mix of muzzle brake and non-brake models. But most have Hollywood hump back style uppers, but the captions on pictures show they were Dutch made AR10s (listed as AR10A1's). The sales samples were going to be later models outside of the samples sold to the original investors/sales people like Cummings, Michault (Sidem), Cooper McDonald and others. Even Val Forgett/Navy Arms had a sales sample gun, but it was later cuban/Sudanese model. Whether he ever got one of the Hollywood models - I do not know. Dave Cumberland wrote about getting a sales sample AR10 to do the Thailand demos with - but it is not disclosed what model he got. I think he got a Sudanese model, since the Siamese/Thai deal went under about the same time A/I lost their bid on the Dutch Rifle contract and Armalite went to Colt to make/sell the AR's. There were less than 50 of the Hollywood models made, but that does not count the X model prototypes. Hollywood was a basic shop, but the prototypes were originally made in either Gene Stoner's garage shop or George Sullivans garage shop, which you can see if you check his Hollywood residence address. They did not move to the Santa Monica Blvd shop until Fairchild put money into the company - or that was my impression. The million and one half USD that went into Armalite would have paid for the prototypes and first production run and then all the support that goes into developing the product to include the later models and Dutch trips and sales arrangements. Nothing is ever said about what guns went to Sidem (who sold a lot of AR10's - since Michault was a partner in Armalite at the beginning and got all the low serial number Ar15's.) Even the actual sales samples that Interarmco got outside of #1001 were higher number guns. Even then, the Nicaraguan tests were done with 1001 since the tests failed when the bolt fractured - which was a problem with all the early prototypes - see Art Miller article from SAR. Serial Number 00030 gun was tested by the Army in 1958 and it is a Dutch made Cuban or Sudanese model - so did Dutch production restart with serial number 00001? Probably. View Quote The first one from the Dutch production was #000001 in 1958. |
|
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.