Well I had no idea the magazine was on line, but it is.  The VVA Veteran magazine, published by Vietnam Veterans of America, is available for your viewing here:

The VVA Veteran magazine

The March/April 2012 edition has an annoying article about Westy's mis-steps (no shit?) in providing modern armament to the South Vietnamese, as well as a topic recently covered here, veterans in Rhodesia.

Of additional note, the Battle at Dak To is covered in the January/February issue, and there was a pretty decent article with lots of photos back in 2010.

I suggest the history junkies bookmark this web page for future use.

My father spent time in Rhodesia in the early 60's.  He was so in love with that country that he tried several times to buy land but could never come to an agreement on price.  I guess the Rhodesians really loved their farmland too.  Anyway, had that gone through, I would have grown up right in the middle of that mess.  Beautiful country though.

I only saw my father cry 3 times in my life...when my mom died in 82, when the US Embassy in Beirut was blown up (he worked in that building for 6 years) and when Rhodesia ceased to exist.

Just a damn shame.  Thanks for the article OP.

ka

Rhodesia was a great tragedy, like so many others. It's too bad that it became 'only' racial - obviously there was a racial aspect, but from what I understand, a lot of 'brothers' fought on the 'white side'. I hate labels, and the Rhodesian farmers were treated as racists whether they were or not. It was all too convienient. I would like to do more research on this conflict, as it fascinates me - possible future book? I know this - it was brutal, unfair and things got worse for the populace after 'emancipation'. From what I remember, it's still a hell-hole today. Not saying 'Whitey' could have done better, but obviously the hope for a new beginning was not realized. Too much has been made of the role of mercenarys and their actions in this war. Africa as a whole is a constant state of flux. If one country isn't in turmoil, another is. "Long sleeves or short sleeves?" No one should ever have to make that kind of decision.

I have always been interested in the Rhodesian bush war, I just ordered Chris Cocks book Fireforce, it is supposed to be a solid overview of the war from one who fought it. Imy understanding was the Rhodesian Light Infantry was a tough group who fought like true warriors.  Wonder if we could learn a thing or to from their experiences with an insurgent type war.

Kevin

As suspected, the author of the article on arming the ARVN is Lewis Sorley, who seems to have decided that he has such a dislike of General Westmoreland as to ignore historical fact.  This is part of Sorley's hypothesis that the US, and more specifically Westmoreland himeslf, denied modern equipment to the ARVN and the rest of the South Vietnamese military, which degraded their ability to fight.

Here is a response (with some things added) that I wrote with regards to this point point when Sorley wrote this (specifically point 6: "[Westmoreland] deprived the South Vietnamese of modern weaponry, giving U.S. and other allied forces priority for issue of the new M-16 rifle and other advanced military wherewithal. The South Vietnamese thus went for years equipped with castoff WWII-vintage U.S. equipment while outgunned by the communists, who were armed with the AK-47 assault rifle and other top of the line equipment. ):

laming Westmoreland for depriving "the South Vietnamese of modern weaponry," and specifically the M16 rifle, is not only overly simplistic, but basically false.

The M16 issue is complex in of itself.  The US Army had been investigating the Armalite AR-15 (the trade name of what would become the M16 rifle) since 1958.  The Infantry Board had suggested at that time, that with some modifications it could be a potential replacement for the US Army's own M14 rifle.  The Ordnance Corps resisted this suggestion for many years, even rigging tests against the weapon.  In the face of what seemed like US military indifference and outright resistance, the AR-15 seemed to be such a waste to Armalite and their parent company Fairchild that they sold the patents to Colt in 1959.  Their earlier AR-10 had failed in direct competition with the M14 as well.

When the Project AGILE report came out of the Advanced Research Projects Agency reinvigorated interest in the weapon in the early 1960s, the official response was still that the AR-15 was not an acceptable substitute for the M14.  Regardless, the Department of Defense had thrown its full weight behind the Special Purpose Infantry Weapon, which it hoped right right into 1966 would become the replacement for the M14.  The DoD along with big wigs in most of the services concurred with this plan.  The SPIW, which would never produce a viable weapon, began its death spiral at the end of 1966.  By that time, the US Army was declare the XM16E1, a variant of the basic AR-15 rifle (then designated the M16), to be suitable for broad use by forces only in Vietnam.  The rifle, standardized as the M16A1, would not be widely issued anywhere else in the US Army.

Colt had also overstated its ability to produce the weapons, after threatening to stop production entirely in 1965 if it wasn't awarded a contract.  Shortages and attempts to rapidly field additional weapons not only produced the majority of the quality control issues that the weapon experienced, but also led to contracts being awarded to the Harrington and Richardson and the Hydramatic division of General Motors to produce additional weapons.  In addition, Army units outside of Vietnam authorized the weapon (Airborne, Airmobile, and Special Forces units were the only units initially authorized the weapon in lieu of the M14), had their M16A1s taken away to help ease the supply issue.  In some cases, especially in CONUS, these troops were reissued M1 Garands.  The US Army in Vietnam only achieved broad issue of the weapon in 1967.

So immediately, to say that the South Vietnamese request was denied, while US forces were given priority issue, is not entirely true.  The US military, with the exception of the USAF (who had replaced their own aging M2 carbines with the new weapon), remained unsold on the M16/M16A1 until well into the conflict.  The US Army only achieved full issue of the weapon in Vietnam five years after ARPA had suggested that the weapon would be suitable for Vietnamese forces.  In addition, when ARPA made its first request in 1962, there were not a substantial number of AR-15s in inventory.  The US military would have had to buy them specifically for the South Vietnamese.  The US has generally not been overly fond of doing this.  Its also generally not been overly fond of issuing weapons it is considering for adoption on behalf of foreign powers, even allies, before actually adopting and issuing the weapon itself.  That might be in part due to pride, but it was hardly Westmoreland's fault or decision.  Furthermore, Westmoreland was actively requesting M16s for the ARVN as early as 1965, at the same time he was lobbying for them for US troops.  He had a hard enough time getting those weapons for US troops in the end.  How Westmoreland could be faulted for the ARVN not receiving the rifles he actually requested for them is beyond me.

On the issue of  "priority" issue of the weapon to allied forces, the US did this in the case of the South Korea, Thailand, and the Philippines as part of military aid packages that were essentially bribes for their participation.  Part of the agreement for the participation of all three countries was that their forces be so equipped at cost to the United States.  In the case of Thailand, its forces initially deployed to South Vietnam with the same "castoff WWII-vintage U.S. equipment" as the South Vietnamese, having diverted their allotment of M16s to forces fighting the communist insurgency in northern Thailand.  In all, most US allies in the region and elsewhere in Asia were similarly equipped at the time.

As for other modern equipment, the situation is again, not so simple.  The attempt to introduce B-57 jet bombers (then still in front line US service) into the VNAF in the early 1960s was a resounding failure, with the South Vietnamese themselves suggesting that the aircraft were beyond their capabilities.  The development of a more suitable jet aircraft, the A-37 and the F-5, these aircraft were given to the South Vietnamese relatively soon after they entered US service.  South Vietnamese stocks of F-5 fighters were bolstered in the latter stages of the conflict, by redirecting aircraft from other US allies like Iran.  The case of the Cadillac Gage V-100 armored car is also a good example.  When the US decided to procure these vehicles for its own forces, the training in Vietnam on them was initially conducted by members of the ARVN.  The ARVN had received their first vehicles 4 years before the US Army began supplying them to its own forces.  Even then, they were scarce and requests by units other than military police for the vehicles were rejected.

To say that "The US military........remained unsold on the M16/M16A1 until well into the conflict" seems odd, considering the many hundred thousands they were purchasing, so many that H&R and GM received manufacturing contracts in an attempt to satisfy the demand.  

Next, you'll be telling us how well Westy's body count theory worked.  But in fairness, he did have a lot of help from all those "best and brightest" assholes in Washington that he called friends.

Sorry, but I'm not convinced.  I have personal knowledge of U.S. advisers scurrying about to beg U.S. units for weapons and equipment to supply the front-line ARVN units they were assigned to, right up to the very end of our direct involvement.  I was there, and I saw it happen, and I remain proud to this day that I did what I could to help them.  Wish I could have done more, frankly.

The last word, is yours, friend.  Proceed accordingly.

Thanks Andouille.  Consider it bookmarked.  Didn't know about that one.  Pretty good read.

The reason why H&R and GM were brought in was specifically because Colt could not keep up with demand.  Colt had vastly overstated their ability to produce the weapon.  With the hundreds of thousands of M16s required just for the US Army and USMC in Vietnam, the vast majority of whom would have been issued M14s under other circumstances, there simply were not many left over for other groups.  When Colt decided to sell rifles to Singapore in 1967, it created a massive outcry because of these issues.  Production had further been limited by the belief, held right into 1966, that the SPIW would be the wave of the future.  Had production been being conducted to supply the entire US military instead of just the US military in Vietnam, then there would no doubt have been stocks elsewhere to draw from to supply the ARVN.  What little there was left over went to bribing regional allies to deploy their contingents.  

To blame Westmoreland, who had first requested over 100,000 M16s for the ARVN in 1965, for what was the result of a number of factors largely beyond his control, seems unreasonable.  Westmoreland actively lobbied for the distribution of these weapons to the ARVN and for accelerated distribution once they began arriving in 1967.  The fact of the matter is that the ARVN started receiving M16s more or less immediately after the US Army had received sufficient numbers of the rifles. The USMC did not complete the transition until well into 1968.  The ARVN wasn't really any more behind on the curve than the US military.  


There's a difference in my opinion between actively restricting the distribution of equipment and issues of supply.  I have absolutely no doubt that your anecdotes are true, but again to place the onus of responsibility on a single individual fails to take into account how complicated the whole situation was.  I know of many anecdotes of how poorly supplied US units could be at times, and how they had to beg other US or Allied units for various items.  US units had supply issues without having to deal with the hoarding, skimming, and other shrinkage found in the ARVN logistics system.  In fact, many major pieces of equipment were denied to US units around the world that would have otherwise been authorized them to support operations in Vietnam.  M113s and UH-1s are good examples.  The US Army had so few M48A3 tanks that it had to start issuing M48A2Cs later in the conflict to make up for losses.  The US could hardly continue to perform its functions in Vietnam, as well as in other strategic locations like Germany and Korea, without "passing on the savings" to the ARVN and our other regional Allies.  If the ARVN got it bad, the Cambodians and the Laotians got it far worse, and they basically held out just as long as the South Vietnamese.  The conflict didn't turn out the way it did because of how many M16s they got.

Just curious if anyone has any of the old Soldier of Fortune articles scanned?  I got turned on to SOF to late to read about Rhodesia.  I remember seeing some re-prints one time.  Looked brutal.

Also, for a historical fiction type take on the conflict...and the entire history of Rhodesia, Wilbur Smith's series is excellent (The Ballyantine series)

ka

The biggest roadblock to getting M16 in the hands of the ARVN and RF/PF was SecDef McNamara.  He didn't want the Vietnamese to get them before US troops, nor did he want the rifles turned on US troops as he expected them to leak out from ARVN stocks to the Viet Cong.  You'll note that the plans to fully equip the Vietnamese didn't gain traction until after McNamara left office.

This. Although looking back, I am surprised that it took so long to get the ARVNs fully equipped with M16s.



 

Obviously from the quality and quantity of your response, you're quite invested in your opinion.  And, you are welcome to it.  And, certainly it wasn't all about M16's, or lack thereof.  You are absolutely right about that.  

Of course, several million SE Asians died because we failed to live up to our various promises to support them, but what the hell, you can't save 'em all, right?

Definitely think we should have been better friends. Make no mistake about that. The best friends, however, are those that help you with your goals, rather than giving you new ones that barely resemble your old ones. If we weren't going to help them reunify the country we immediately stuck them with and end game that was far less attractive than that offered by the North.

Well, the US Govt has a long tradition of going back on it's promises. Ask any Indian tribe in the country, not to mention the bonus marchers of WWI, those vets who have had issues with Agent Orange or 'Gulf War syndrome'...basically anyone who needed their help except - oh yeah, that's right, THE BANKERS. I have zero respect for the federal government. They are enablers of greed and avarice, stole money out of our Social Security fund for the last 20 years or so, now they are getting ready to stick it to us again. No offense, but this surprises you?

+ fucking one.

The Bonus Army wanted their pensions early. They weren't owed early pensions. The situation was handled poorly nonetheless.

Given the marchers where WW I Vets, it was handled poorly...it might serve as a great model for handling todays "occupy" movement.  

just saying
ka

Not quite...needs more fire.

"Cleared in Hot"

Well, the US Govt has a long tradition of going back on it's promises. Ask any Indian tribe in the country, not to mention the bonus marchers of WWI, those vets who have had issues with Agent Orange or 'Gulf War syndrome'...basically anyone who needed their help except - oh yeah, that's right, THE BANKERS. I have zero respect for the federal government. They are enablers of greed and avarice, stole money out of our Social Security fund for the last 20 years or so, now they are getting ready to stick it to us again. No offense, but this surprises you?

Morg you ride bikes or race cars?  I believe we could get along.  I also believe it's our children and grandchildren that Ole Unka Samuel has really stuck it to.  Doubt if they have figured out how they are gonna be paying back the estimated $40 trillion we're gonna owe in another 5 years.  There is a reason our children are being brainwashed with socialist values everyday at school.  It's not gonna be pretty.  My advice is squirrel away the coins although nobody's gonna want them.  Gonna be like Confederate currency probably take 150 yrs to make it worth face value.  Hey we've had a pretty good run and the Sun never set on the British empire.  BS!

Had a LEO friend who made the mistake of pulling over a Govt tractor trailer full of dope one time.  Didn't take him long to lose his job.  Finally found a career in the Walmart sporting goods dept and lucky he didn't wind up 6 ft under.  I'd say before the VN conflict there weren't any drugs in my elementary school.  Kinda funny that shortly after the conflict most us jocks were scared to even go in the school bathrooms.

Also strikes me as a little odd that we could have gone to Cuba instead of half way around the world in the fight against Communist aggression.  That's right Cuba doesn't mfg and supply the world with Heroin.  Can say I've never met a Cuban that wouldn't rather be here in the USA soaking up all our Govt freebies.  Regardless what's past is past.  It's the present and future that really worries me.  In 1980 I took a course and even then the book I was forced to purchase at around $50 said mine was the last generation of Americans that would have it better than their parents.  Hope they were wrong.

For those of you who are interested, a variant of my response is going to be published in the letters to the editor in the May/June issue.

+1 Air America was flying Heroin out of Cambodia and Laos to fund CIA black programs in the late days of Vietnam. I didn't make this up - it's been documented. A lot of companies here in America made millions off the war in SouthEast Asia - OH WAIT - a bunch of companies made BILLIONS off the war in SouthWEST Asia. Am I cynical? You bet. Eyes wide open. I worry about the next generation as well - which is why I'm leaving guns and ammo to them in my will. No kids, but my nieces and nephews should be well-armed.

+1 Air America was flying Heroin out of Cambodia and Laos to fund CIA black programs in the late days of Vietnam

You would think at some point we would learn from history.  All the coins we blew in VN are a drop in the bucket to what we've pissed away in Afganistan.  Last I checked the Taliban was killing anyone caught growing opium.  We can't have that.  Do the lawyers and our political  system really enjoy profitting over ruining peoples lives?   I'm guessing they don't care as long as their kids go to private schools.  Steppenwolf- "The Pusher".  Gotta admit the 60's and 70's have it all over the new Millenium.  Anybody remember three good home-cooked meals,  a stay at home mom,  who both the parents were and fans instead of air conditioning?  My nieces and nephews think I made all that up.  Hard to believe we survived without child proof lighters,  Sheetz and WaWa.  At least we have our AR's and some of the new cars have plenty of muscle.  Just think if we had the tires then that we have now.  I could take a 350-350HP Chevelle and kill the rear tires in less than an hour.  Back to the gas station for a new set and off to the park to cruise.

I would be thrilled to see .35 cent/gallon gas again! Bike helmet? What's that? I ate a lot of lead paint chips as a kid and it never affffffffected me much.