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Posted: 2/4/2012 10:27:56 AM EDT
OK, so I haven't shot her yet, nor even given her a good bath and inspection, but at the nagging of my so-called brother and under threat of being banned if I don't get these posted soon
 , I find myself obligated to share some pics of the new baby.
Built in Holland half a century ago, most likely sent off to some unpleasant bush war in Africa, chopped in half and imported to North America in the early 80's, rebuilt as a semi-auto by Telko, then converted back into select-fire by Mr. Charles Erb...and, finally, adopted by a caring former squid with a soft spot for old ARs and fun switches. She's had a long, hard trip...but she's home at last! Yes, I know I'm showing the serial number. After five and a half months, the ATF didn't notice any problem with the history of the number, and they certainly know who owns it now, so I don't see much cause to hide it. Note that the original rifles were serialized on the upper receiver. Telko numbered the lower to match but added the "S" for semiauto. I'm guessing they were also responsible for the replica AI logo. Note also the British proof marks right above the "Cal.7.62". The story is, due to some salesman skulduggery (one guy stepping on another guy's sales territory), all the AR10s that went to the Portuguese military got routed through Great Britain so they had to be proofed. 
Charlie Erb placed his manufacturer's mark nicely out of the way on the lower edge of the magwell. 
Charging handle back... 
And bolt closed... 
Bipod folded into the handguards... (You can also see the gas adjuster in the front sight base.) 
Sling mount on the left side of the stock and a smooth rubber butt pad. 
From the shooter's perspective... (Elevation and windage adjustable at the rear sight, similar to the M16A2.) 
And from the business end of things... The front sight is not adjustable––it's a fixed blade. It doesn't show well here, but the flash hider is threaded inside to accept a blank firing adapter. The "T"-profiled lug on top of the barrel is for the bayonet. The lug on the front of the front sight base is for a slip-on grenade sight (one of the few accessories still on my to-find list). 
(to be continued) |
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Posted: 2/4/2012 10:28:26 AM EDT
[#1]
(continuing...)
View of the chamber. You can also see the underside of the two-piece charging handle. 
The all-important guts of the thing... 
Other than the relative size of things, the bolt carrier group looks kinda familiar. 
Talk about a class act. This "Crown over T" proof mark on the bolt is just so much cooler than the pencil-engraved "M" and "P" on later ARs! If anyone can identify the mark, please speak up––I don't know if it's British, Dutch or something else. 
The buffer doesn't look too much different than the Edgewater in a 601... 
Except it's not pinned together. Tip it up and it falls apart in three pieces. 
Gas tube is carbon steel but the profile isn't as quick a bend as the early AR15 tubes. 
The markings found under the handguards appear to include a variant of the "Crown over T". 
Among the most noticeable features of the "Portuguese" variant is the four piece handguard assembly... 
The inner shields go on "top and bottom" with one cut out for the gas tube. 
The outer handguards go on "left and right". At the moment, I don't have the no-bipod-cut guards from my semi-auto to compare, but my impression is that they're much smoother than these. The bakelite (or whatever this material is) is thick and sort of...clumpy. 
OK, that's it for now. I still need to finish the inspection and she needs a serious cleaning. I'll have to decide later if I want to refinish her. I've also noticed she's missing the roll pin that retains the bolt hold open device. No big deal––it stays in place while the receivers are closed, but it's a bit loose. Easy enough to fix, though. First chance I have when the temps are up a few degrees, I'll try to get her to the range for a function report and some better daylight pics. 
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Posted: 2/4/2012 10:43:51 AM EDT
[#2]
SCHWING!
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Posted: 2/4/2012 11:14:20 AM EDT
[#3]
I think the T with the crown stands for TITS!
 Awesome bro. Glad you got her home! Sorry for giving you a hard time...wait. No, I'm not. Great pics BTW. You never took your Semi apart for me. The buffer is cool. I think you really ought to go to the Sunday .30 service rifle shoot with her at some point. Give them M14's a run for their money!
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Posted: 2/4/2012 11:20:30 AM EDT
[#4]
Olgunner that is just plain sexy
Thanks for sharing! |
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Posted: 2/4/2012 11:27:45 AM EDT
[#5]
Outstanding! She's a beauty!! Love the configuration with the bipod. Well done sir! Can't wait to hear how she shoots. Enjoy!
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Posted: 2/4/2012 11:48:21 AM EDT
[#6]
Wow! Thanks for posting those pics.
A question for you: how do you like the trigger charging handle? Is it uncomfortable to engage? It looks like it is big, heavy, and cumbersome. |
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Posted: 2/4/2012 11:48:40 AM EDT
[#7]
OUTSTANDING!!~ In a class by herself!
Please confirm,,not sure I read it correctly,,are you saying that lower was cut,as in demilled,,then welded back together?? If yes,,DAMN man,,someone did a hellava great job! Thanks for sharing this with us Gunner,,and hope you have lots of fun times with her..DON'T LET MORG SHOOT HER  
I am officailly jealous 
Gunner,,did you score that item I emailed you the listing of?? |
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Posted: 2/4/2012 11:52:49 AM EDT
[#8]
VERY NICE hope she shoots as good as it looks congrats !
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Posted: 2/4/2012 11:58:13 AM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 2/4/2012 12:04:32 PM EDT
[#10]
that's awesome, thanks for pics
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Posted: 2/4/2012 12:44:49 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
that's awesome, thanks for pics +1 
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Posted: 2/4/2012 12:54:54 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Wow! Thanks for posting those pics. A question for you: how do you like the trigger charging handle? Is it uncomfortable to engage? It looks like it is big, heavy, and cumbersome. The CH works reasonably well, once you get used to it. You have to push the "trigger" down to disengage it, then pull it back. Once you've done it a while, the motion becomes pretty natural––no worse than releasing the catch on a modern charging handle. The benefit is that it's ambidextrous. The downsides are that it limits your options for mounting a scope, and (I'm told) it gets hot after sustained firing (sitting right above the bolt/chamber). I haven't noticed the heat issue myself––at least not on my semi-auto––but we'll see what happens when I finally have a chance to dump a mag or two from this one. |
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Posted: 2/4/2012 1:10:46 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
OUTSTANDING!!~ In a class by herself! Please confirm,,not sure I read it correctly,,are you saying that lower was cut,as in demilled,,then welded back together?? If yes,,DAMN man,,someone did a hellava great job! Thanks for sharing this with us Gunner,,and hope you have lots of fun times with her..DON'T LET MORG SHOOT HER
I am officailly jealous
Gunner,,did you score that item I emailed you the listing of?? No, no––I meant the original lower was cut up. This one is purely a Telko lower, converted by Erb. And, no, I didn't get the drawing that was being auctioned. I gave it a fair run of bids, I think, but someone wanted it more. (I probably would have gone higher if it had been of a Portuguese instead of the earlier rifle.) Still a number of things I hope to find, though. Not really hoping to find a Delft scope for this one, but the grenade sight and any paper products remain on the list. And more mags! Always more mags. 
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Posted: 2/4/2012 2:10:35 PM EDT
[#14]
very nice indeed.
when you get around to it, i would like to see how the bolt carrier comes out of the upper without the cutout at the rear of the upper (under the rear sight) for the gas key. does it slide out the rear? does it slide back, then tilt down and come out the bottom? |
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Posted: 2/4/2012 2:26:06 PM EDT
[#15]
SIMPLY MAGNIFICENT OL'GUNNER
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Posted: 2/4/2012 2:27:17 PM EDT
[#16]
The ULTIMATE! Outstanding... thanks for sharing the pictures.
John Thomas |
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Posted: 2/4/2012 3:54:33 PM EDT
[#17]
I have to tell you, there is something that an original AR-10 does to you that is different than other AR's, to include modern AR-10-type rifles. For one, the receivers are shorter, so it is more in-line with the size of an M16 or AR15 rifle, and doesn't weigh much. The recoil impulse is extremely mild for a 7.62 NATO, and the rifles are usually known for their accuracy.
Thanks for sharing this OlGunner. |
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Posted: 2/4/2012 4:38:36 PM EDT
[#18]
Olgunner, I did not notice the cutout on the carry handle for mounting a scope. Is it? If not then never. That is because an infantry carry handle can not be milled to create a correct scope-ready Porto. The carry handles on the scope-ready rifles were a 1.0 mm thicker than the infantry upper. You are in better shape than Tgus because only his upper is serial numbered. At least you could swap out a scope ready upper is you ever had the opportunity and the ATF (from behind the bushes) would see the right serial number on your lower.
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Posted: 2/4/2012 4:45:26 PM EDT
[#19]
Man some piece you have there and if the DEWAT has been brought back to REWAT the workmanship is second to none.
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Posted: 2/4/2012 5:00:08 PM EDT
[#20]
What a beautiful piece of craftsmanship, you are indeed very lucky to have it.
Officially Jealous in 3...2... |
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Posted: 2/4/2012 6:16:46 PM EDT
[#21]
I think this AR10 was the one pictured in an article in GUNS magazine about 7 years ago. It was a full color spread showing the converted gun being fired by someone wearing period Portugese camo.
I have to look back in my collection to find it. Nice view of a Charlie Erb conversion. Don't think he did many, and I know he had one up until a few years ago. |
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Posted: 2/4/2012 6:47:46 PM EDT
[#22]
VERY NICE! Thanks OLGunner, for shareing the fantastic pics. I know you,re really gonna enjoy this one.
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Posted: 2/4/2012 6:49:25 PM EDT
[#23]
Charlie Erb had a converted Telko. Possibly the same one now owned by olgunner. Also, he made a couple of reweld Portos that were converted before 1986 and are transferable. I have a semi-auto Telko that was owned by Erb.
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Posted: 2/4/2012 10:18:21 PM EDT
[#24]
Awesome rifle!
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Posted: 2/5/2012 12:29:51 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
(continuing...) View of the chamber. You can also see the underside of the two-piece charging handle. http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r500/AR10er/chamber10.jpg The all-important guts of the thing... http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r500/AR10er/FCG1.jpg Other than the relative size of things, the bolt carrier group looks kinda familiar. http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r500/AR10er/boltface.jpg Nice rifle Olgunner. The T with the crown stands for Tormented. Wich means it passed a test with a much heavier load at the factory. This rifle was in the same batch as mine when it was shipped to Portugal. I think I showed you the original bill for that. They went straight to Portugal and the British marks were put in after they came back from Portugal. From there they were send to North America. The marks have something to do with british gunlaws at the time. It seems to me some one has tryed to refurbish(spelling) the handguards with epoxy or something. Love to see pics of her on the range when you let her rip. http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r500/AR10er/ar10bcg.jpg Talk about a class act. This "Crown over T" proof mark on the bolt is just so much cooler than the pencil-engraved "M" and "P" on later ARs! If anyone can identify the mark, please speak up––I don't know if it's British, Dutch or something else. http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r500/AR10er/ar10pm1.jpg The buffer doesn't look too much different than the Edgewater in a 601... http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r500/AR10er/buffer1.jpg Except it's not pinned together. Tip it up and it falls apart in three pieces. http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r500/AR10er/buffer2.jpg Gas tube is carbon steel but the profile isn't as quick a bend as the early AR15 tubes. http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r500/AR10er/gtube.jpg The markings found under the handguards appear to include a variant of the "Crown over T". http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r500/AR10er/bblstamp.jpg Among the most noticeable features of the "Portuguese" variant is the four piece handguard assembly... http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r500/AR10er/portgard.jpg The inner shields go on "top and bottom" with one cut out for the gas tube. http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r500/AR10er/innerhg.jpg The outer handguards go on "left and right". At the moment, I don't have the no-bipod-cut guards from my semi-auto to compare, but my impression is that they're much smoother than these. The bakelite (or whatever this material is) is thick and sort of...clumpy. http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r500/AR10er/outerhg.jpg OK, that's it for now. I still need to finish the inspection and she needs a serious cleaning. I'll have to decide later if I want to refinish her. I've also noticed she's missing the roll pin that retains the bolt hold open device. No big deal––it stays in place while the receivers are closed, but it's a bit loose. Easy enough to fix, though. First chance I have when the temps are up a few degrees, I'll try to get her to the range for a function report and some better daylight pics. http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r500/AR10er/right1.jpg |
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Posted: 2/5/2012 12:43:55 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Wow! Thanks for posting those pics. A question for you: how do you like the trigger charging handle? Is it uncomfortable to engage? It looks like it is big, heavy, and cumbersome. The CH works reasonably well, once you get used to it. You have to push the "trigger" down to disengage it, then pull it back. Once you've done it a while, the motion becomes pretty natural––no worse than releasing the catch on a modern charging handle. The benefit is that it's ambidextrous. The downsides are that it limits your options for mounting a scope, and (I'm told) it gets hot after sustained firing (sitting right above the bolt/chamber). I haven't noticed the heat issue myself––at least not on my semi-auto––but we'll see what happens when I finally have a chance to dump a mag or two from this one. Another benefit is that you don't have to get the rifle off your shoulder and you can keep your finger by the trigger when reloading. All the reloading can be done by the lefthand and the right hand can stay by the trigger. Also laying down with the rifle pointed at something you won't have to move from your sight when reloading so it's a lot faster to engage again. The Portugese charging handle doesn't get hot. That was the sudan style charging handle and that's the reason for coming to this concept. The portugese style charging handle also functions as a forward assist. that's why there is a groove on the front top side of the boldcarrier. |
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Posted: 2/5/2012 4:19:38 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Wow! Thanks for posting those pics. A question for you: how do you like the trigger charging handle? Is it uncomfortable to engage? It looks like it is big, heavy, and cumbersome. The CH works reasonably well, once you get used to it. You have to push the "trigger" down to disengage it, then pull it back. Once you've done it a while, the motion becomes pretty natural––no worse than releasing the catch on a modern charging handle. The benefit is that it's ambidextrous. The downsides are that it limits your options for mounting a scope, and (I'm told) it gets hot after sustained firing (sitting right above the bolt/chamber). I haven't noticed the heat issue myself––at least not on my semi-auto––but we'll see what happens when I finally have a chance to dump a mag or two from this one. Another benefit is that you don't have to get the rifle off your shoulder and you can keep your finger by the trigger when reloading. All the reloading can be done by the lefthand and the right hand can stay by the trigger. Also laying down with the rifle pointed at something you won't have to move from your sight when reloading so it's a lot faster to engage again. The Portugese charging handle doesn't get hot. That was the sudan style charging handle and that's the reason for coming to this concept. The portugese style charging handle also functions as a forward assist. that's why there is a groove on the front top side of the boldcarrier. I've done the five mag dump that was demonstrated by Gene in the movie and my CH did not get hot, it has not been hot in any of my shooting sesssions indiocating that it would take more than four hundred if it were to. The one piece CH was replaced by the two piece so the shooter would not have to break their cheek weld. all combat rifles are right handed, the left holds and supports, the right manages all other functions except maybe bolt release button but that is easily handled by the right with the CH. |
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Posted: 2/5/2012 4:51:03 AM EDT
[#28]
Nice score! I salute you!
The one piece charging handle is very comfortable to use and does not get hot. The portuguese handguards I have examined all had lumpy areas to one degree to another. 
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Posted: 2/5/2012 5:34:32 AM EDT
[#29]
Very nice weapon and an excellent addition to your collection.
Thanks for sharing the detailed pics. |
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Posted: 2/5/2012 9:43:50 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
very nice indeed. when you get around to it, i would like to see how the bolt carrier comes out of the upper without the cutout at the rear of the upper (under the rear sight) for the gas key. does it slide out the rear? does it slide back, then tilt down and come out the bottom? The BCG comes out just like an AR15. The upper receiver is open in the back, just like other variants (see below). The part that "closes off" the charging handle channel is a "bump" on top of the lower receiver. 
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Posted: 2/5/2012 9:52:16 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
<<snip>> Nice rifle Olgunner. The T with the crown stands for Tormented. Wich means it passed a test with a much heavier load at the factory. This rifle was in the same batch as mine when it was shipped to Portugal. I think I showed you the original bill for that. They went straight to Portugal and the British marks were put in after they came back from Portugal. From there they were send to North America. The marks have something to do with british gunlaws at the time. It seems to me some one has tryed to refurbish(spelling) the handguards with epoxy or something. Love to see pics of her on the range when you let her rip. <<snip>> Excellent info, Stef––thank you! You did show me a bill for a Portuguese order of...I think...300 rifles, which I used to figure out exactly what accessories shipped with the original rifles. I don't remember seeing any serial numbers on that, however. If you have documentation that actually refers to this S/N, I would love to have a copy! |
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Posted: 2/5/2012 10:00:22 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Olgunner, I did not notice the cutout on the carry handle for mounting a scope. Is it? If not then never. That is because an infantry carry handle can not be milled to create a correct scope-ready Porto. The carry handles on the scope-ready rifles were a 1.0 mm thicker than the infantry upper. You are in better shape than Tgus because only his upper is serial numbered. At least you could swap out a scope ready upper is you ever had the opportunity and the ATF (from behind the bushes) would see the right serial number on your lower. I do remember now you posted that detail once before. I guess I should be glad because if by some miracle I do stumble across a Delft for the AR10, at least now I won't have to decide whether to chop an original upper! Of course, the odds against finding a scope and the sniper upper range from unobtanium to "why-are-you-even-wasting-your-time?" Thanks to everyone who has added info here. I love this forum because of the collective knowledge and everyone's willingness to share that info! |
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Posted: 2/6/2012 2:56:09 AM EDT
[#33]
 The mag catch looks different.  |
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Posted: 2/18/2012 8:19:39 AM EDT
[#34]
Compare those markings to my Hahn reweld semi receiver done back in the day. Hahn put his s/n under the pistol grip.:
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Posted: 2/18/2012 6:08:08 PM EDT
[#35]
Ol G, thanks for posting all the pics and info. You have a fine rifle there.
Gotta love the retro forum. Best stuff around. |
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Posted: 2/19/2012 2:35:26 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Compare those markings to my Hahn reweld semi receiver done back in the day. Hahn put his s/n under the pistol grip.: http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll70/MG34_Dan/Dans%20Sudanese%20AR10/SN150290.jpg It appears you have an SP1 front pivot pin in that AR10, funny how its the same size as the final AR10 front pivot pin. |
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Posted: 2/19/2012 3:30:34 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Compare those markings to my Hahn reweld semi receiver done back in the day. Hahn put his s/n under the pistol grip.: http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll70/MG34_Dan/Dans%20Sudanese%20AR10/SN150290.jpg I love rewelds! Wish I could find one of those for my parts kit. As much as I appreciate Telko or Erb making the effort to make mine a little more "authentic"-looking (which also surprises me a little, considering it was apparently done in the 80's before this retro craze kicked in), I almost wish they'd left the side blank so I could have had it engraved closer to the original. Still, at least it's a "tribute" to the original mark! |
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Posted: 2/19/2012 3:58:44 PM EDT
[#38]
Very nice AR-10. Thanks for sharing. Sure don't see many of those in my neck of the woods.
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Posted: 2/24/2012 7:58:30 PM EDT
[#39]
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Posted: 2/24/2012 8:35:06 PM EDT
[#40]
WOW! Nice!
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Posted: 2/24/2012 10:09:04 PM EDT
[#41]
Wow, that is nice.
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Posted: 2/24/2012 10:54:20 PM EDT
[#42]
Doooood, if only we could have machine guns here! :P
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Posted: 2/25/2012 6:14:37 AM EDT
[#43]
I would have been thrilled with an aluminum lower semi (the steel lower IS HEAVY) but of course, Olgunner just had to go all the way....great weapon bud. Can't wait to get back to the range with you BTW - living this far apart really sucks sometimes.
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Posted: 2/25/2012 7:46:23 PM EDT
[#44]
OK, so here is my Porto lower so that you folks can compare it to olgunner's and Timkel's. The lower receiver was found maybe two years ago in when a gunsmith was going through his junk drawer. It seems that back in the day those Telko lowers sometimes broke. After a replacement was installed, this particular lower was given to a gunsmith as scrap. Thank goodness for packrats. Anyway, this lower was broken right through the locking pin hole and the buffer tower was completely separated from the rest of the lower. The repair was easily done due to the grade of aluminum used in this particular Telko. Another weak point on the Telko is the bolt catch area. Even the tougher original Dutch lowers will occasionally break in that area. A sure sign of problems if when the bolt catch is loose and floppy.
I do not have the upper that is matched to this lower. Someone out there has a Porto with serial number 007116. 
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Posted: 2/26/2012 5:27:50 AM EDT
[#45]
Here is close-up of a bare Hahn reweld semi receiver. You can see the weld seam above the trigger area:
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Posted: 2/26/2012 6:20:36 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
OK, so here is my Porto lower so that you folks can compare it to olgunner's and Timkel's. The lower receiver was found maybe two years ago in when a gunsmith was going through his junk drawer. It seems that back in the day those Telko lowers sometimes broke. After a replacement was installed, this particular lower was given to a gunsmith as scrap. Thank goodness for packrats. Anyway, this lower was broken right through the locking pin hole and the buffer tower was completely separated from the rest of the lower. The repair was easily done due to the grade of aluminum used in this particular Telko. Another weak point on the Telko is the bolt catch area. Even the tougher original Dutch lowers will occasionally break in that area. A sure sign of problems if when the bolt catch is loose and floppy. I do not have the upper that is matched to this lower. Someone out there has a Porto with serial number 007116. http://oi39.tinypic.com/idrn9h.jpg Valuable info on the receiver! I will keep a close eye on this one. |
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Posted: 2/26/2012 11:47:52 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Interesting engraving. Typical Telko's were marked XM10. I like how yours is marked Armalite AR10 with the AI triangle. That looks so much nicer with the original style markings. The mag catch looks different. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/timkel24102410/stuff/Telcoar10lowerclose.jpg I think your magcatch is a Sudan style. The portugese style is the one on Olgunners rifle. Same with the boldcatch and the buffer tower. Yours is Sudan style and Olgunners is Portugese. |
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Posted: 2/27/2012 2:26:04 AM EDT
[#48]
Geez, I've wanted an original...well, semi original AR 10 since the ads in the early 80's Guns and Ammo. Damn cool rifle.
ka |
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Posted: 3/3/2012 4:36:17 AM EDT
[#49]
What type of pivot and take down pins did the original AR10's use? I am refering to whether they were the 'captured' type like the current AR15/AR10 design or used the detent ball like the 601 or maybe they are something different.
Any insight is appreciated. Thanks. |
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Posted: 3/3/2012 5:16:37 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: Answer is––detent ball like the 601What type of pivot and take down pins did the original AR10's use? I am refering to whether they were the 'captured' type like the current AR15/AR10 design or used the detent ball like the 601 or maybe they are something different. Any insight is appreciated. Thanks. |
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