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Colt probably has staplers or carpet stains in their building that have been there far longer than RRA has been in business. new-arguy, 2005
this is great!!!! |
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I never had a sig line before, but saw that post yesterday, and I really liked it. Hope new-arguy don't mind. |
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Colt probably has staplers or carpet stains in their building that have been there far longer than RRA has been in business. new-arguy, 2005
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Colt probably has staplers or carpet stains in their building that have been there far longer than RRA has been in business. new-arguy, 2005
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I was waiting for you to do this. I could see it coming eventually. Great to see you still hard at work heh.
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Yeah, guess it was comming. Still working on it, lot more work then I thought. |
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Colt probably has staplers or carpet stains in their building that have been there far longer than RRA has been in business. new-arguy, 2005
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Of course there is, especially when it comes to anything involving Colt. I've found that out with the research on the series overall.
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Don't think it is any worse then any other small arms manufacturer during a war? Take a look at Garands or Carbines, what a mess that was. |
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Colt probably has staplers or carpet stains in their building that have been there far longer than RRA has been in business. new-arguy, 2005
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tag
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Rollyman out!
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Can we get pictures of the different upper receiver and lower receiver variations?
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Join us at The Colorado AR-15 Shooters Site: www.co-ar15.com
And Visit Colorado Shooting: www.coloradoshooting.org |
Tag
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I could not be more proud than to be an American, given the choice I would have it no other way.
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Colt doesn't need a war to hobble things together from parts on hand, and the Diemaco connection always pissed me off. Now they simplified that one and simply bought Diemaco. Furthermore their in house nomeclature produces a lot of confusion. The Colt Model 639 being the prime example. When the change was made the A2 style lower Colt assembled a number of A2 style guns using A1 style lowers, but stamped A2, also adding unnessecary confusion. Now we're not talking stuff done by the US Government for example in this regard, like the original SPR prototyping, where parts came from whereever they were available. We're talking stuff done at the factory by Colt, to create things that are outright marked one thing and happen to be another. |
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Great info! I was wondering if the grenade ring was standard on the origional AR15s with the duck bill flash hider. I've never seen one on an AR15 before. ETA: Also, did the 601 have a 1/14 or 1/12 twist barrel?
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The rifling is still a point of contention and is part of a debate over what the deal between the 601 and 602 is. It would seem extremely plausible that the 601 had a 1:14 twist, while the 602 had a 1:12. |
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Ekie, would it be possible to use some of your images for a Wikipedia entry?
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Yes, in time, just getting started, lots of work to do.
Sure, makes it the more interesting, like a big puzzle.
Don't know much at all about the grenade do dad. I do have a copy of the first Air Force AR-15 manual coming 50-12, and hopefully it will have details on that item. In regards to twist, particulars on Air Force rifles are discussed here ( was hoping Thatguy96 would get in on that discussion): www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=242620
Send me an E-mail at: [email protected] |
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Colt probably has staplers or carpet stains in their building that have been there far longer than RRA has been in business. new-arguy, 2005
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So, did the 602 have green or black furnature? If I'm reading this right, the only difference between the 601 and 602 is the barrel twist. ETA: Is there a duracoat or other paint that's the same shade as the 601 furnature?
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The 602 was the same as the 601 save the lower receiver markings, a 1/12 twist, black furniture, beefed up flash suppresor, light weight firing pin, and the windage engraving was moved from the windage drum to the receiver. Malysh is currently working on matching the green paint, and has not got it down, yet. |
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Colt probably has staplers or carpet stains in their building that have been there far longer than RRA has been in business. new-arguy, 2005
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Is there a list someplace that shows who an upper was made by? I have an A1 upper, F/A no B/D, marked with a "P" and then an "M"
Any ideas? |
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Join us at The Colorado AR-15 Shooters Site: www.co-ar15.com
And Visit Colorado Shooting: www.coloradoshooting.org |
I think BR II covers that, and so does bighammer? |
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Colt probably has staplers or carpet stains in their building that have been there far longer than RRA has been in business. new-arguy, 2005
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Ekie,
In an earlier post you said you were looking for pics of a C K marked upper. I have a milsurp A1 upper so marked. Apparently a fairly late piece, since it has a "chrome bore" marked barrel. Darker color than the usual Sandstrom, but when I got it it had been painted at some point, and the black paint mey have darkened the original color. The problem is that I have no way to send pics on the internet. If it'll help, I can take, and send you, a 35mm shot. Let me know if you can use it. Next, a question. Did the Air Force ever buy any later M16s with the mag release fence, but still w/the smoothside uppers? The Rock River lower I modified to A1 type is actually a better side edge and color match for my smoothside upper than the A1 upper mentioned above, but I'm darned if I want to mill off the mag release fence and reshape the bottom edge. I've put enough time and energy into this project already So if there are some A1 lower AF pieces out there I'll just use it on the smoothside upper. Otherwise it's back to the paint sprayer to get a decent color match w/that odd colored A1 upper. |
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I did find a CK and a CM upper, and now have good pics, have not posted them yet though. Thanks for check in with me on that.
C MP CHROME BORE barrels were factory original and also used as replacement barrels. A factory original barrel would have the older sight forging, that is C marked with a bell, while a replacement barrel typically would have jibberish for a forge code. Please let me know which your CK upper has. Yes, 604's were delivered with mag fences. For example, the tacky thread with lower receiver pictures you can find a 604 in the 4 million range, those were made in the 70's. Also I had a CM forge code 604 upper with a C MP B marked barrel, that is circa early 70's. |
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Colt probably has staplers or carpet stains in their building that have been there far longer than RRA has been in business. new-arguy, 2005
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Mine is C Bell on the sight base, so I guess it's original. When I got it, we checked the throat wear, and it showed essentially none. Even though the upper had been painted, when I removed it the upper showed 99.9% original finish underneath. I suspect it launched more grenades than bullets, because it came complete except for HGs, and showed a few scratches on the barrel, where the rear mount for the launcher would have been. Instant blue covered them right up to the point that you have to look under a strong light to even see the scratches any more. Thanks for the info on the Air Force pieces. I guess, for the time being, I'll use that lower under the smoothside upper, and hope that Colt 653 ultimately gets the early type lowers available. At that point I'll buy an early type lower to put on the smoothside, and repaint the RR conversion to a closer color match. Til then, the A1 upper assy will live on top of a Century (Conti built) A2 lower, which is a fair color match, if an incorrect profile. BTW: Really admire your willingness and patience over what must have been years, to get the info, pics and items you've come up with for this thread. |
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One some "refurbs" the receiver is painted while assembled, they just slap the port door shut and spray the outside of the upper. This type of paint will come off with a mild effort with acetone. Stripped one last night, and the original finish ain't in too bad a shape. Other refurbs are more carefully done in a thermal setting coating, that don't strip chemically.
Am sure that ASA will get those lowers done, would not make economic sense to abandon the project at this point in the game. Have been cleaning up my parts kits in anticipation of these showing up soon.
There are plenty of guys that know this stuff, but they have not taken the time to put it in a presentable format that others can learn from. There are some guides, but they barely scratch the surface. Was the same story with the AK-74. With the 74 I finally decided that to get it done I would have to get the ball running myself, and Tantal was a huge help. Like the AK-74 guide there are two parts, one is rifle description, and the other is parts. There is a rough draft of the rifles now, and only about half of the parts guide is posted at this point. The farther I get into this, the more stuff I find, for example there are four distinct variations of firing pins. |
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Colt probably has staplers or carpet stains in their building that have been there far longer than RRA has been in business. new-arguy, 2005
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A BIG THANK YOU to Ekie for this this thread, all your work and knowledge!
This is a Great Tool for the Retro builder! I just learned that my Colt barrel has the chromed chamber only , that is has the smooth forged FSB and my handguards have the hole so they're not real old. This barrel is in Pristine condition and well worth the $130 I paid for it. I now know what parts to get to make her like the day in which she was made. I just wish it had the chrome bore too, oh well. Again, thanks for the hard work. Folks like you are what makes this Site Great! Danny |
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If you notice a edit in my post, it's because I can't spell fer crap!
Bravo to 650+ VA. ARFCOM Members! |
No problem, my pleasure.
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Colt probably has staplers or carpet stains in their building that have been there far longer than RRA has been in business. new-arguy, 2005
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dammit!!! looks like the only one that's still up is the ar-15 clone thread...
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SGT Keith M. Maupin USAR (Batavia, OH)
Missing Captured 09 Apr 2004 Baghdad, IRAQ |
Here you go:
AR-15 model 601 clone: ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=238213 M4gery: archive.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=231110 M4A1 clone: archive.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=229465 M16A4gery archive.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=234528 The following two rifles have been redone, so I took most of these old pictures down: M16A1 clone: archive.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=217482 M16A2 clone: archive.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=218677 Here is the old AR-15 project done up as a 602: archive.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=217481 |
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Colt probably has staplers or carpet stains in their building that have been there far longer than RRA has been in business. new-arguy, 2005
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.
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Great pictures Ekie. Just curious - on those early duck- billed flash suppressors, what was the purpose of those backward folded tabs? |
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Moderation is for monks. RAH
It's a thankless job, luckily I have karma to burn. HEY YOU WASHINGTONIANS! http://ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=8&f=15 |
Ekie, I just received another barrel with a 3-prong which shows slight machining variations from the first I have. Camera batteries died during the shoot; I'll post tomorrow. Looks like there are several variants among the flute patterns (including one or two in your previous posts).
More later - BT |
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tag
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I'm lookin' for a nice Jewish virgin...............ian
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I look forward to seeing that. Did you keep that XM16E1 upper? |
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Colt probably has staplers or carpet stains in their building that have been there far longer than RRA has been in business. new-arguy, 2005
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E-mail sent on the XM16E1 upper.
Will take a look at my flash suppressors and see if can spot those two variants. I have a 602 upper, which is the first production rifle to use this style of flash suppressor. |
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Colt probably has staplers or carpet stains in their building that have been there far longer than RRA has been in business. new-arguy, 2005
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Just updated the barrel info.
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Colt probably has staplers or carpet stains in their building that have been there far longer than RRA has been in business. new-arguy, 2005
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this is an evil thread:
now I want: M16 clone M16A1 clone M16A2 clone M16A4 clone M4 clone (bushy '05 SEBR close enough?) M4A1 clone And thats only for Clones- |
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Great info!
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"If any of you came to get mellow...you can turn around and get the f**k out" - Ted Nugent
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No, this is a GREAT thread! Now I know what to do with my extra lower reciever. I ordered a reciever from a guy on another forum who is making his own and doing custom engraving and all sorts of shiznaz. The good bit is, he'll do whatever engraving you want BEFORE the type III annodization. That reciever is going to my carbine and my Stag is destined to be a M16 clone.
I don't want to reveal the guys name because I don't think he's ready for full scale operations yet, but I will definately post a report here when I get mine. |
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Understood, the more variations I find, the more clones projects I start.
Thanks guys, and do give us an update on that guys lowers. |
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Colt probably has staplers or carpet stains in their building that have been there far longer than RRA has been in business. new-arguy, 2005
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I hope this thread is a suitable place for this. On another thread, I mentioned how my M-16A1 clone project went horribly awry when the large round Forward Assist plunger wouldn't work because it came into contact with my A2 style lower receiver's reinforcemements at the area where the receiver extension screws in. It turns out that the large round plunger had to be modified by flattening one side of the plunger button, therefore the large round Forward Assist plunger is differert for A1 and A2 style lowers. Following is a picture of the two styles side by side for comparison.
http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/~tspahr/GROSBEAK/STUFF/fas4.jpg Notice also that the A1 style is crimped together while the A2 style is pinned together. There are all kinds of other cosmetic differences as well. For others like me that are really caught up in the cosmetic differences of various M-16 parts, enjoy the pic. My web hosting will not exist after January first, so I would ask that if anyone thinks this picture should exist here longer, please copy the pic to your hosting service and post a link. I'll edit my post accordingly. Thanks, Greg |
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Saw that other thread, that is some good stuff, thanks. |
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Colt probably has staplers or carpet stains in their building that have been there far longer than RRA has been in business. new-arguy, 2005
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<Saw that other thread, that is some good stuff, thanks.
Thanks. Greg |
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why is this untacked?
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+1! I missed this thread the first time around (was on the road) glad it popped up again. Ekie, super job on this one WOW! |
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we sort of do, it's the Content Server but only Mods have access to it. Since the Edit button is essential to grabbing the posts it would have to be a Mod of this forum posting it to the conserv If Ekie has saved all this in word or notepad then it's a simple cut and paste job into the conserv. |
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Moderation is for monks. RAH
It's a thankless job, luckily I have karma to burn. HEY YOU WASHINGTONIANS! http://ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=8&f=15 <font color=red>I am the signature virus, please put me in your signature so I can spread</fon |
Moderation is for monks. RAH
It's a thankless job, luckily I have karma to burn. HEY YOU WASHINGTONIANS! http://ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=8&f=15 <font color=red>I am the signature virus, please put me in your signature so I can spread</fon |
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Great pictures, thanks for sharing them. Funny that I shot port door open pictures just this past Saturday.
Don't think I would call the first port door an "early A1", in that the A1 never used that part. Maybe they should be A, B, and C? Think the FAL book labels the parts types with letters? |
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Colt probably has staplers or carpet stains in their building that have been there far longer than RRA has been in business. new-arguy, 2005
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