Yes I have read and researched this but as we all know the law is a messy/grey area thing.  I assume that everything I am thinking is legal but Id like to understand why.  I have a DD MK18 pistol that is 27" total length and a 10.3" barrel.  I do have an AFG installed on it.  



-I keep reading about 24" being "concealable" length.  Im not sure what that means or how it pertains but I am trying to apply it to CCW this AR pistol.  Ohio allows for handguns to be loaded and transported.  Ohio defines a handgun as a short stock and designed to be fired with 1 hand.  I pass that test but does the federal law of length apply here?

-Do AR pistols need to be over 26" to be legal?  






Im a smart guy and I have read this over and over and still cant 100% understand what is being said here or if it applies to anything.  

A firearm, as defined by the National Firearms Act (NFA), 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3), is made when unassembled parts are placed in close proximity in such a way that they: (a) serve no useful purpose other than to make a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; or (b) convert a complete weapon into such an NFA firearm. A firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made when parts within a kit that were originally designed to be configured as both a pistol and a rifle are assembled or re-assembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA (e.g., as a pistol, or a rifle with a barrel or barrels of 16 inches or more in length). A firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made when a pistol is attached to a part or parts designed to convert the pistol into a rifle with a barrel or barrels of 16 inches or more in length, and the parts are later unassembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA (e.g., as a pistol). A firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(4), is made when a handgun or other weapon with an overall length of less than 26 inches, or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length, is assembled or produced from a weapon originally assembled or produced only as a rifle.

Your 27"oal, is that with or without the muzzle device?

A 10.3" barrel on an AR is not over 26" OAL. OAL is measured without the muzzle device unless it is permanently attached. The 26" OAL is simply to determine the legality of installing a Vertical Fore Grip (not your Angled fore grip). 26" or grater OAL with a vertical fore grip installed is converted to a GCA firearm and is not a pistol/handgun in this configuration, you could not conceal carry it as a pistol.  Remove the VFG and it is a pistol again.
As for the rest, the definition you posted has no bearing on a pistol except for the part about the "kit". This allows you to add a 16" or longer barrel, and a butt stock (in that order) to a pistol to use it as a rifle, and then return it to a pistol by removing the butt stock and replacing the barrel with the pistol barrel (again in that order) without it being a NFA firearm. This is true of any pistol provided it starts life as a pistol.
Ohio has no assault weapons restrictions so your GTG.



Don't over think it, an AR pistol is just a pistol, just like a Glock or S&W.





eta: You are not going to be able to conceal an AR pistol simply because of it's size. Open carry is legal in Ohio without a CCW. Why are you worrying about a CCW?



 

Thanks for the clarification of OAL. I was counting the muzzle device so that probably 1-1.2".

Why I am asking about concealed carry in ohio is not to conceal carry it (too large) but I carry it loaded in a car. I highly doubt this will ever happen but if there were ever a reason that I felt I should have a loaded ar pistol in my car is like to know I am doing so legally.  I guess I can carry it in a bag of some sort of I felt that I needed to as well and still be within legal rights w a CHL.

So, the real question is, is it legal to transport a loaded pistol concealed in a car in Ohio? Ohio law applies here.

If you don't put a Vertical Fore Grip on it, then you need not concern yourself with overall length at all.  It could have a 7" barrel or a 20" barrel, so long as it doesn't have a stock on it, it's an AR pistol, both federally and under OH law.



And yes, with a valid OH CHL, you can keep your AR pistol loaded in your vehicle.

MO law has the same view. I'm one to point out that when a discussion comes up pistol vs SBR.

The reality is that it's not likely going to happen regardless of which you have. More an academic freedom of use issue. Likely when circumstances seem to become more risky on a local basis it would be the better option to carry on body with a handgun. In a vehicle, the holster should not be located any where near the seat belt, upper torso offers a lot more access.

The Midwest has a lot more travel in a vehicle than on foot, so the idea is to have reasonable access with an immediate response, then something with more range if you need to step out of the car - barring any means to escape by vehicle. If it's that bad, floor it.

The window of opportunity to use a AR pistol in those circumstances keeps narrowing because of the optimal tactic to use. Which is why I've come to the conclusion the issue is mostly one of legal rights and ability. To paraphrase an old saying, just because you can doesn't mean it's the best solution.

We have an Alternate weapons season for deer, the AR pistol is gaining a lot of steam there, but it's another time period where a loaded hunting firearm in the front seat could be conflated with "road hunting" should the LEO on the scene want to make the point. Hard to see how a guy dressed in camo could deny it if you are cruising the back roads slowly.

Watch the how and when you do it. And I wouldn't just leave the "tennis bag" out in the car all the time, either. Meth heads will steal anything for a dollar. Me, an OFWG, dumpy build, carrying a tennis bag everywhere? Not. Guys my age give up tennis.

I'm not even going to try doing it on vacation with the wife sitting next to it. OMG what do you have THAT for . . .

Here in TN anyone can carry a loaded handgun in a car without a CCW. Rifles can be loaded but not chambered.



 

No, anyone (not forbidden by law to own firearms) may have any type firearm here in private vehicle, loaded or unloaded, for over a year now. You must be thinking of the old statute, where permit holders only could only have loaded long guns without one in chamber. No such condition now exists for anyone, permit holders or non.

Presumably, the only place non-permitted folks can't stash 'em in vehicle is school property or posted lots, that still takes a permit for exception.

- OS

Permit or not, I believe there's a no gun rule in MO on school property. That is where the local and state statutes have far more weight, and why a local practice in one jurisdiction is OK, and in another, it's jail time.

New Jersey, for example. LEO"s there are now known to target out of state vehicles in the hopes of finding weapons. There are now a number of high profile cases.

Questions about the legality of carry are dependent on what state, the NFA has very little to do with it. We have to deal with 50 different versions, there's no blanket statement that is safe to accept at face value. Too many different laws to do that.

Add in the move for national reciprocity, and constitutional carry, no license needed at all. Interesting times. IIRC, MO open carry required a CCW. If that is up to date.

Note however, with the various horror stories in that vein from NJ, MD, etc, not one of those people was transporting his heater according to the laws of the state or FOPA. Of course the guy who was stopped looking for the Kel-Tec is perhaps the scariest one of all (if it's true). But he didn't even have a gun in car at all, so no actual repercussions.

If you are carrying as per FOPA and get hammered, I'd imagine it would wind up being pretty good chunk of change in your pocket.

- OS

Yep, your right. I'm getting too old to keep up with it all. Didn't Gov. Bill just sign a law the beginning of May prohibiting any funding or any kind of support enforcing federal gun regulation past, present or future  that isn't inline with our laws/state constitution? Seems to me that TN law defines a machine gun  as "any firearm that is capable of shooting more
than two (2) shots automatically without manual reloading, by a single
function of the trigger". Does this mean I can setup 2 round burst in my ARs without interference from the state?





 

Yes on both counts, except the "no help" statute extends to any federal firearms law, whether it's simpatico with TN law or not.

It's a comfort to know that even though the Feds can still charge you for your "2 round burst gun", at least TN theoretically won't spend any effort in helping them catch or prosecute you, eh?

- OS

Ya gotta love the "patron state of shootin' stuff"!



 

Loaded AR pistol in OH is fine with a CHL. Length doesn't matter.

I thought that changed last June...

ETA. just saw that was covered. Yes, TN is great.