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Posted: 4/10/2014 7:26:10 PM EDT
I found the below picture via Google so I apologize if it belongs to anyone here.
I'm researching parts to put together a pistol build using a 10.5" barrel. I want a 4 rail free float handguard though using the KAK Flash Can muzzle (standard or slim can) device that will mimic the look you see below, by having a good portion of the muzzle inside. I've been looking around and see a lot of options for a 7.5" barrel, but I need it for a 10.5" Anyone know what will work, brand, link...any help would be greatly appreciated. Again, I want a 4 rail FF forend. 
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Posted: 4/10/2014 7:45:17 PM EDT
[#1]
If you are using a 10.5" barrel and a KAK flash can, here is an approximate guide: 10" Rail shows ~3" of the can without showing the barrel 11" Rail shows ~2"... 12" Rails shows ~1" ... (how'd you guess). The "4 rail" you are referring to is more commonly called a "Quad Rail" and you'll turn up legions of it in the marketplace using that search term. Note that difference between "slim" rails and cans versus just regular size ones. Regular size can is not likely to fit in slim profile Quad Rails. |
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Posted: 4/10/2014 7:52:40 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you are using a 10.5" barrel and a KAK flash can, here is an approximate guide: 10" Rail shows ~3" of the can without showing the barrel 11" Rail shows ~2"... 12" Rails shows ~1" ... (how'd you guess). The "4 rail" you are referring to is more commonly called a "Quad Rail" and you'll turn up legions of it in the marketplace using that search term. Note that difference between "slim" rails and cans versus just regular size ones. Regular size can is not likely to fit in slim profile Quad Rails. Thanks for that  I have a few ARs, but "Quad rail" lapsed my mind and I didn't want anyone to think I meant a key mod forend. I've never done a FF build and figured a 10" rail would actually be .5" behind the end of the barrel. Didn't figure the barrel going in the receiver determined the size of a FF rail.
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Posted: 4/10/2014 9:57:56 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for that I have a few ARs, but "Quad rail" lapsed my mind and I didn't want anyone to think I meant a key mod forend. I've never done a FF build and figured a 10" rail would actually be .5" behind the end of the barrel. Didn't figure the barrel going in the receiver determined the size of a FF rail. With a 10.5" Barrel, the 10" Rail ends right at about the middle of the threads on the barrel ... so when you thread in a Muzzle Device, at least a small portion of it will be under the Rail for sure. |
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Posted: 4/11/2014 7:46:39 AM EDT
[#4]
Be aware that the listed length of the rail isn't always the exact length. For example, MI quad rail The actual lengths of the 9", 10" and 12" rails are 9.25", 10" and 12.625"
Here is the KAK slim can. Slim can. It would be required to be used under the MI rail shown. |
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Posted: 4/11/2014 4:39:48 PM EDT
[#5]
Does something like this appeal to you? 10.5", FF quad rail, recessed flash can muzzle device: http://www.shop.masdefense.com/105-556-223-BARRELED-UPPER-OMEGA-12-SERIES-105ORBU.htm
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Posted: 4/11/2014 5:58:53 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you are using a 10.5" barrel and a KAK flash can, here is an approximate guide: 10" Rail shows ~3" of the can without showing the barrel 11" Rail shows ~2"... 12" Rails shows ~1" ... (how'd you guess). The "4 rail" you are referring to is more commonly called a "Quad Rail" and you'll turn up legions of it in the marketplace using that search term. Note that difference between "slim" rails and cans versus just regular size ones. Regular size can is not likely to fit in slim profile Quad Rails. so by this logic a 11.5" barrel and a 13" rail with the flash can slim should stick out around an inch? |
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Posted: 4/11/2014 9:39:40 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does something like this appeal to you? 10.5", FF quad rail, recessed flash can muzzle device: http://www.shop.masdefense.com/105-556-223-BARRELED-UPPER-OMEGA-12-SERIES-105ORBU.htm That looks promising.
I also have a few other options to look through now for the upper. The lower and parts I have already or are on order, just need to decide on the upper linked above or buy the handguard and KAK can separately. |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 1:28:39 PM EDT
[#8]
Check out the Seekins BAR
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Posted: 4/15/2014 7:08:19 AM EDT
[#9]
Well I went with the MAS Defense upper and decided to opt for the Melonite Nitride barrel since it seems to be better than the chrome lining I was considering on other uppers. I just went with their bolt/carrier as well. Never ordered from MAS Defense so I hope my first experience with them is a good one.
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Posted: 4/15/2014 2:11:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does something like this appeal to you? 10.5", FF quad rail, recessed flash can muzzle device: http://www.shop.masdefense.com/105-556-223-BARRELED-UPPER-OMEGA-12-SERIES-105ORBU.htm I am looking at there 12" rail for my 10.5" build with KAK flash can. I wonder or does anyone know if it will fit? Is Masdefense a good vendor? Thanks |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 6:27:57 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am looking at there 12" rail for my 10.5" build with KAK flash can. I wonder or does anyone know if it will fit? Is Masdefense a good vendor? Thanks Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Does something like this appeal to you? 10.5", FF quad rail, recessed flash can muzzle device: http://www.shop.masdefense.com/105-556-223-BARRELED-UPPER-OMEGA-12-SERIES-105ORBU.htm I am looking at there 12" rail for my 10.5" build with KAK flash can. I wonder or does anyone know if it will fit? Is Masdefense a good vendor? Thanks That linked upper has the KAK can on it. I confirmed this from the owner of KAK himself who said he makes them for MAS all the time. As for MAS, they've already sent my upper out which was sooner than the 4 days I was expecting. The downside is that I picked the insured shipping option and they sent it out with the automatic $50 Priority Mail shipping which will definitely not cover $600 worth of parts if it's damaged or goes missing. Hopefully if something happens to it in the thieving mail system, MAS will make good on it even though they'd only get $50 back. |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 8:23:34 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That linked upper has the KAK can on it. I confirmed this from the owner of KAK himself who said he makes them for MAS all the time. As for MAS, they've already sent my upper out which was sooner than the 4 days I was expecting. The downside is that I picked the insured shipping option and they sent it out with the automatic $50 Priority Mail shipping which will definitely not cover $600 worth of parts if it's damaged or goes missing. Hopefully if something happens to it in the thieving mail system, MAS will make good on it even though they'd only get $50 back. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Does something like this appeal to you? 10.5", FF quad rail, recessed flash can muzzle device: http://www.shop.masdefense.com/105-556-223-BARRELED-UPPER-OMEGA-12-SERIES-105ORBU.htm I am looking at there 12" rail for my 10.5" build with KAK flash can. I wonder or does anyone know if it will fit? Is Masdefense a good vendor? Thanks That linked upper has the KAK can on it. I confirmed this from the owner of KAK himself who said he makes them for MAS all the time. As for MAS, they've already sent my upper out which was sooner than the 4 days I was expecting. The downside is that I picked the insured shipping option and they sent it out with the automatic $50 Priority Mail shipping which will definitely not cover $600 worth of parts if it's damaged or goes missing. Hopefully if something happens to it in the thieving mail system, MAS will make good on it even though they'd only get $50 back. Did you end up getting the specific upper I linked, or a different setup? My experience with MAS was perfect, by the way. |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 9:46:59 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did you end up getting the specific upper I linked, or a different setup? My experience with MAS was perfect, by the way. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Does something like this appeal to you? 10.5", FF quad rail, recessed flash can muzzle device: http://www.shop.masdefense.com/105-556-223-BARRELED-UPPER-OMEGA-12-SERIES-105ORBU.htm I am looking at there 12" rail for my 10.5" build with KAK flash can. I wonder or does anyone know if it will fit? Is Masdefense a good vendor? Thanks That linked upper has the KAK can on it. I confirmed this from the owner of KAK himself who said he makes them for MAS all the time. As for MAS, they've already sent my upper out which was sooner than the 4 days I was expecting. The downside is that I picked the insured shipping option and they sent it out with the automatic $50 Priority Mail shipping which will definitely not cover $600 worth of parts if it's damaged or goes missing. Hopefully if something happens to it in the thieving mail system, MAS will make good on it even though they'd only get $50 back. Did you end up getting the specific upper I linked, or a different setup? My experience with MAS was perfect, by the way. I went with the exact upper, but added the Melonite barrel option and their regular CL'd bolt carrier group. I got a response from the owner a little while after typing the previous response saying that regardless what USPS says, it's covered 100%. Thing is USPS always has the extra insurance option listed with the tracking number, just like signature confirmation and so on. I have an AR vise block coming to me with $100 insurance (unneeded IMO) posted in the options on the tracking number page coming from another source. I just don't think the correct amount of coverage was added since the $50 is standard now when shipping something priority mail. I'm fine with it as long as it gets to me and MAS covers it 100% if it gets lost or damaged. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 12:41:35 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: so by this logic a 11.5" barrel and a 13" rail with the flash can slim should stick out around an inch? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you are using a 10.5" barrel and a KAK flash can, here is an approximate guide: 10" Rail shows ~3" of the can without showing the barrel 11" Rail shows ~2"... 12" Rails shows ~1" ... (how'd you guess). The "4 rail" you are referring to is more commonly called a "Quad Rail" and you'll turn up legions of it in the marketplace using that search term. Note that difference between "slim" rails and cans versus just regular size ones. Regular size can is not likely to fit in slim profile Quad Rails. so by this logic a 11.5" barrel and a 13" rail with the flash can slim should stick out around an inch? Approximately, yes. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 5:39:32 PM EDT
[#15]
So is the Mas Defense Omega 12" rail a good choice for a 10.5 build with KAK flash can? Are they good products?
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Posted: 4/19/2014 10:08:41 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So is the Mas Defense Omega 12" rail a good choice for a 10.5 build with KAK flash can? Are they good products? I got my upper yesterday and it seems very well built. The handguard is on tight and I'd like to take it off to stake the gas tub set screws, but it's on there good. The upper linked above is the one I bought and it has the KAK flash can on it so I'd assume it would look the same on another 10.5" barrel with a 12" Omega rail. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 12:16:33 PM EDT
[#17]
I have put together many lowers, but never really fooled with uppers. Just bought complete uppers. I need a video that shows how to install the Omega Free float rail on a 10.5 PSA upper with FSP, that I will chop with dremel. I may get a gas block later but doing two at a time, its cheaper to cut FSP, and have rail cover it.
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Posted: 4/20/2014 2:35:47 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have put together many lowers, but never really fooled with uppers. Just bought complete uppers. I need a video that shows how to install the Omega Free float rail on a 10.5 PSA upper with FSP, that I will chop with dremel. I may get a gas block later but doing two at a time, its cheaper to cut FSP, and have rail cover it. Check on Youtube for "freefloat tube install" and you'll see plenty of vids. You're going to have to take off the FSB to install the FF handguard/take off the delta ring barrel nut, gas tube and handguard retainer anyhow so you might as well get a low-pro gas block now. This one is inexpensive and highly recommended. I bought it for my next build after seeing recommendations: https://www.primaryarms.com/Yankee-Hill-Machine-Low-Profile-Gas-Block-w-p/yhm-9383.htm I'm turning one of my standard upper assemblies into a FF unit and taking everything off is a lot easier than it looks. I'd recommend an AR multi tool like this one here as well: http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/products/p_231000007_1.jpg I wouldn't of been able to disassemble my upper without it, nor get the FF tube barrel nut on. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 4:14:38 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Check on Youtube for "freefloat tube install" and you'll see plenty of vids. You're going to have to take off the FSB to install the FF handguard/take off the delta ring barrel nut, gas tube and handguard retainer anyhow so you might as well get a low-pro gas block now. This one is inexpensive and highly recommended. I bought it for my next build after seeing recommendations: https://www.primaryarms.com/Yankee-Hill-Machine-Low-Profile-Gas-Block-w-p/yhm-9383.htm I'm turning one of my standard upper assemblies into a FF unit and taking everything off is a lot easier than it looks. I'd recommend an AR multi tool like this one here as well: http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/products/p_231000007_1.jpg I wouldn't of been able to disassemble my upper without it, nor get the FF tube barrel nut on. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have put together many lowers, but never really fooled with uppers. Just bought complete uppers. I need a video that shows how to install the Omega Free float rail on a 10.5 PSA upper with FSP, that I will chop with dremel. I may get a gas block later but doing two at a time, its cheaper to cut FSP, and have rail cover it. Check on Youtube for "freefloat tube install" and you'll see plenty of vids. You're going to have to take off the FSB to install the FF handguard/take off the delta ring barrel nut, gas tube and handguard retainer anyhow so you might as well get a low-pro gas block now. This one is inexpensive and highly recommended. I bought it for my next build after seeing recommendations: https://www.primaryarms.com/Yankee-Hill-Machine-Low-Profile-Gas-Block-w-p/yhm-9383.htm I'm turning one of my standard upper assemblies into a FF unit and taking everything off is a lot easier than it looks. I'd recommend an AR multi tool like this one here as well: http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/products/p_231000007_1.jpg I wouldn't of been able to disassemble my upper without it, nor get the FF tube barrel nut on. Thanks for the info, guess I need a vice block and barrel clamp/holder thingy.lol. Thanks for the links. I have the two 10.5 to do and they two 7.5 to do, or might swap the 7.5 project over to 11.5 for velocity. All will be running Sig braces. |
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Posted: 4/22/2014 3:22:17 AM EDT
[#20]
Well I couldn't get my jam ring off off the forend of the MAS upper and didn't know if they used loctite on anything so I wrote them via their website. I told them I wanted to know how the forearm was on and if the gas block screws had loctite as well since I wanted to stake them if not. Not only did they respond, but they did so by calling me. I talked on the phone with them for a bit and learned they don't use loctite on anything, the screws are tightened to 50in. pounds and I'd definitely need a jam nut wrench to get the ring loosened. Pretty darn good customer service if you ask me.
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Posted: 4/23/2014 6:46:28 AM EDT
[#21]
10.5 (barrel) - .625 (threads) + 3.25 (KAK) = 13.125
Seems a 12" hand hard would be best. 13" would be to short and 11" seems long for your desire. Also validate the actual length of the handrail many 9" rails are 9.25". HTH |
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Posted: 4/26/2014 7:06:05 PM EDT
[#22]
What rail is that in the original post. It looks like a Troy alpha rail. What size?
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Posted: 4/27/2014 3:59:55 AM EDT
[#23]
12" is what you want.
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Posted: 4/27/2014 4:52:06 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What rail is that in the original post. It looks like a Troy alpha rail. What size? The op got the pic off the net so he does not know the size. Since it has a pig on it it could be any combination. Probaby 7.5" barrel with a 9" rail or 11.5" barrel with a 13" rail. Definatly not a Troy alpha look at how it is mounted. |
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Posted: 4/27/2014 5:02:07 AM EDT
[#25]
So is the Ma's Defense the best budget 12" rail for my 10.5 ? I will be using a KAK flash can. I know I have beat this to death, but on a budget trying to get two builds done and two more waiting.
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Posted: 4/27/2014 6:01:07 AM EDT
[#26]
This is a 10.5 with a slim flashcan and a 11" rail. |
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Posted: 4/27/2014 9:27:38 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y46/devilman13xx/20140425_210323.jpg This is a 10.5 with a slim flashcan and a 11" rail. What kind of rail is that? |
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Posted: 4/27/2014 9:34:48 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So is the Ma's Defense the best budget 12" rail for my 10.5 ? I will be using a KAK flash can. I know I have beat this to death, but on a budget trying to get two builds done and two more waiting. I am honestly thinking about going with the Vector 12" rail from MAS Defense.I like the circular vents over the large ovals. Does MAS Defense make this inhouse or do they supply them from China? I really like the look of the Troy Alpha rail and the Midwest Industries Gen 1 SS series but I can't justify spending that much on a rail. I would rather put the money into an Aimpoint. |
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Posted: 4/27/2014 9:41:19 AM EDT
[#29]
Cmmg rkm11
It is very comfortable. Kak slim just the perfect size for it. The reg would not fit. |
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