Update 1/15/17:

Tested: 125SST Hornady, Lil'gun 18.0 to 20.1, LC brass (converted), Wolf SRM primer

Temp: 34 deg

BBL: 16" CHF chrome lined (PSA)

Chrono: MagnetoSpeed V1

Notes: Started seeing consistent light ejector swipes at 19.5. Slight primer flattening throughout test, but not filling in the corners. No popped primers or gross signs of overpressure. Only had time to load and test 3 rounds. No time to accuracy test.

START LOW AND WORK UP. YMMV.

____________________________

18.0 grains Lil'gun

Series,Shot,Speed
2, 1, 2258, ft/sec
2, 2, 2260, ft/sec
2, 3, 2284, ft/sec
----,----,----,----
____________________________
18.5 grains Lil'gun

Series, 3, Shots:, 3
Min,2274, Max,2286
Avg,2280 ,S-D, 6
ES , 12
Series,Shot,Speed
3, 1, 2281, ft/sec
3, 2, 2274, ft/sec
3, 3, 2286, ft/sec
----,----,----,----
______________________________
19.0 Grains Lil'gun

Series, 4, Shots:, 3
Min,2303, Max,2335
Avg,2318 ,S-D, 16
ES , 32

Series,Shot,Speed
4, 1, 2303, ft/sec
4, 2, 2318, ft/sec
4, 3, 2335, ft/sec
----,----,----,----
________________________
19.5 grains Lil'gun

Series, 5, Shots:, 3
Min,2322, Max,2362
Avg,2341 ,S-D, 20
ES , 40

Series,Shot,Speed
5, 1, 2340, ft/sec
5, 2, 2362, ft/sec
5, 3, 2322, ft/sec
----,----,----,----

___________________________
19.8 grains Lil'gun

Series, 6, Shots:, 3
Min,2339, Max,2378
Avg,2363 ,S-D, 21
ES , 39

Series,Shot,Speed
6, 1, 2339, ft/sec
6, 2, 2373, ft/sec
6, 3, 2378, ft/sec
----,----,----,----

____________________________
20.1 grains Lil'gun                           <----------  1,556 ft.lbs

Series, 7, Shots:, 3
Min,2357, Max,2383
Avg,2368 ,S-D, 13
ES , 26

Series,Shot,Speed
7, 1, 2357, ft/sec
7, 2, 2366, ft/sec
7, 3, 2383, ft/sec
----,----,----,----


____________________________________________
Saw on 300blktalk forums that Hodgdon recently published new data for Lil'gun with 300blk.  Go to Hodgdonreloading.com
and check the data for Lil'gun.  The data for a 125 grain Nosler BT now shows a max charge of 21.0 (c) and a velocity at
max charge of 2,402 fps (16" bbl).  This is a massive increase in charge weight and velocity from prior data (ie 2016 annual manual).

I don't know if this is a typo by Hodgdon, or what is going on here.  I was told by Robert Silvers on the 300blktalk forums
that Hodgdon had an "engineering reason" for limiting max pressures with Lil'gun.  I assumed he had some inside knowledge,
but he refused to say what the reason was, or whether he was just assuming or had actual inside knowledge of their testing.
That was a couple years ago before AAC sold to Freedom group.

So.....I'm interested to hear if anyone has tried this new data?  I haven't found anyone talking about the new data, and reporting
any results.  Anyone want to be a guinea pig?  Sure seems like this is a possible big step up for people who hunt with jacketed bullets
- that 1,800fps expansion limit comes a lot farther downrange with an extra 150 or 200 fps.

#stillslowerthan7.62x39

You are going to have to look far and wide to find one that actually puts out 2,400fps IRL at 16", as opposed to 20 or 24" test bbls.

Since this is a technical forum I'll have to refrain from taunts such as trash can guns........

I am leary of LilGun due to the forcing cone and bore erosion issues seen in magnum handgun loads. Bob Baker over at Freedom Arms specifically recommends against using it at all.

Granted not an apples to apples comparison, however with charge weights and velocities that high I would think you are in the same pressure territory as magnum pistol rounds and would suffer the same types of issues. It might show awesome velocity but if it burns your bore out in 300 rounds, it's is not quite the advantage it seems.

#x39magsnotreliableinAR15andsuckassubs




#getboth

I do not load 300BO.  I do like Hodgdon a lot for pistol and rifle.  But I have to wonder if that is a typo.  Hodgdon also lists the pressure quite a bit lower than H110.  Hornady #10 has 125-130 grain with 20.0 gr. of Lil'Gun @ 2100 FPS but no pressure data specified.  Hornady tests their load data.  If I were interested in loading this I would email Hodgdon for confirmation.

With the new charge weights we are up to at or near max pressure for 223 or 300 ..... around 50,000psi +/-. I also noticed the new data is reported in PSI, and my old data in the annual manuals is reported in CUP.  I've heard some of the same complaints about Lil'gun, and also heard it was a myth, etc.  

I e-mailed Hodgdon to see if anyone is willing to comment or provide explanation.  If I get a response I'll post it.

Hodgdon:  913-362-9455

Closed until January 02.  

I am reloading batches of .223 right now, so I can wait.

Not sure how that's possible unless they changed the formula, since I start getting flattened primers at 19.8gr. You sure this isn't for their new CFE BLK powder?

100% positive.  Go to the Hodgdon website and look.  Most of the 300blk data has been updated.  H110 loads are higher now too.

I'm sitting here holding Hodgdon's 2017 Annual Manual.

Their 300AAC Blackout data does not show anything close to that velocity for Lil'Gun, or any other powder. Maximum velocity for the Nosler 125 grain BT from a 16" barrel is with Lil'Gun, but it is only 2185 feet per second.

Just checked and they did update the Lil Gun.  Will wait and see for some range reports.  I prefer 110 for my loads but I do have some Lil Gun.

Won't burn up the bore, but as most of us run pistol gas system, gas port and gas tube will erode first. I have first hand experience burning up a gas tube with lil gun. 10.5" LW50 barrel was not damaged but gas port in tube eroded enough to turn gun into single shot. Running max loads with 155grn bullets.
I don't use lil gun for supers anymore.

What was it previously?

The Hornady 9th shows 14.7gr-20.0gr for the 125gr SST.
The Hornady 9th shows 11.8gr-17.0gr for the 150gr FMJ while Hodgdon shows 14.6gr-17.2gr for the same weight bullets which seems pretty close to me.

ETA: I only use 15.5gr of Lil'Gun for my 150gr FMJ loads with a Remington 7 1/2 primer in mixed brass (mostly military).  It seems to work well but I do get a flatish primer sometimes so I may drop down to 15.3gr instead.  17gr+ would be a non-starter for me as I don't crave speed that badly.

I was hoping someone with the 2017 would post with a comment.  

That is the same data as they have been using since the beginning.  If they were going to update the data you would have thought it would have made it into the 2017 annual.

I guess we're going to have to wait for a response from Hodgdon unless someone wants to play case head failure lottery.

2017 Hodgdon manual:

Attached File

Interesting, never used Lil gun for supers just for my sub loads.
Anyone know what cfe blk is?  Seen that chart and never heard of it

ALL of the data on the website appears changed from this except CFE-BLK. Its not only different charge weights, its all listed in PSI instead of CUP.  To me that says they got new pressure test equipment to work up loads for CFE-BLK and reworked all the loads on new equipment.

Speculation, but the change from CUP to PSI in data is telling us something.




It's their answer to AA1680. Basically it's for subs, with some use in heavy weight >150grain supers.

I have two 4 pounders of Lil Gun and haven't opened the lid of either one.  All I have used is 1680, 296, or 110, but I am running low on loaded rounds........

Hmmm Lil- gun I do have plenty of that powder. I load my 458 socom with Lil-gun powder.

The posted picture of the manual shows H110 max charge at 20gr and the website is at 19.4gr for a 110 gr bullet.

I bet they did upgrade their equipment and are going back through the old data.

Interesting.  The chart shows a heavier charge and higher velocities for 130gr than 125, and roughly the same charge and velocity for 125 and 135gr.

There's nothing terribly unusual there.  Different bearing surface, effective case volume, jacket thickness & alloy; all have large effects on pressure. There is a very good reason why you work up your load when you change a component.

Update with velocity test in OP

Interested in how much energy we can get out of 16" barrels and supersonic rounds.  Are we still far from 7.62x51 energy or are we sneaking up on it?

Never going to get close. 7.62 has twice the case capacity of 300 BO, you can't overcome that advantage.

I'm still .9 grain under Hodgdon's max - so maybe we get 1,600 ft lbs with current powders.

It's never going to be close to 308, but with a 150-200 fps bump in 125 grain velocities this new data might have taken a substantial bite out of the 6.8 and 6.5 advantage (at least for <200 yard hunting).

What remains to be seen is whether accuracy testing will prove Lil'gun and 125's near max will be accurate enough.  The velocity is there for legitimate 175-200 yard capability.