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Posted: 2/8/2016 11:09:57 AM EDT
[#1]
Max performance will most likely come from the bolt gun vs. the gas gun for pressure (limiting) reasons. I have both a gas (DPMS LR-65) and bolt gun (Ruger PR)... I too was going to do a gas 6.5 CM build but have decided to stick to the bolt gun for my 6.5 CM shooting... at least for now...
I was seeing dinged up brass with swipe marks in the LR-65 with loads that were fine in the bolt gun. My LIMITED experience with loading for the two rifles THUS FAR has shown I can't push the gas gun loads like I can the bolt gun loads... but it's not an issue with me because I am a recreational shooter and don't shoot in competitions. It's still a great cartridge whether in a gas or bolt... |
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Posted: 2/8/2016 11:31:10 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Max performance will most likely come from the bolt gun vs. the gas gun for pressure (limiting) reasons. I have both a gas (DPMS LR-65) and bolt gun (Ruger PR)... I too was going to do a gas 6.5 CM build but have decided to stick to the bolt gun for my 6.5 CM shooting... at least for now... I was seeing dinged up brass with swipe marks in the LR-65 with loads that were fine in the bolt gun. My LIMITED experience with loading for the two rifles THUS FAR has shown I can't push the gas gun loads like I can the bolt gun loads... but it's not an issue with me because I am a recreational shooter and don't shoot in competitions. It's still a great cartridge whether in a gas or bolt... you recommend 308 in a gas gun over 6.5 ? |
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Posted: 2/8/2016 11:36:48 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
you recommend 308 in a gas gun over 6.5 ? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Max performance will most likely come from the bolt gun vs. the gas gun for pressure (limiting) reasons. I have both a gas (DPMS LR-65) and bolt gun (Ruger PR)... I too was going to do a gas 6.5 CM build but have decided to stick to the bolt gun for my 6.5 CM shooting... at least for now... I was seeing dinged up brass with swipe marks in the LR-65 with loads that were fine in the bolt gun. My LIMITED experience with loading for the two rifles THUS FAR has shown I can't push the gas gun loads like I can the bolt gun loads... but it's not an issue with me because I am a recreational shooter and don't shoot in competitions. It's still a great cartridge whether in a gas or bolt... you recommend 308 in a gas gun over 6.5 ? No... just mentioning gas guns in general have limitations due to gas systems that bolt guns don't. |
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Posted: 2/8/2016 11:39:26 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No... just mentioning gas guns in general have limitations due to gas systems that bolt guns don't. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Max performance will most likely come from the bolt gun vs. the gas gun for pressure (limiting) reasons. I have both a gas (DPMS LR-65) and bolt gun (Ruger PR)... I too was going to do a gas 6.5 CM build but have decided to stick to the bolt gun for my 6.5 CM shooting... at least for now... I was seeing dinged up brass with swipe marks in the LR-65 with loads that were fine in the bolt gun. My LIMITED experience with loading for the two rifles THUS FAR has shown I can't push the gas gun loads like I can the bolt gun loads... but it's not an issue with me because I am a recreational shooter and don't shoot in competitions. It's still a great cartridge whether in a gas or bolt... you recommend 308 in a gas gun over 6.5 ? No... just mentioning gas guns in general have limitations due to gas systems that bolt guns don't. im up in the air as far as finishing a dpms upper. im not sure which caliber to run with. 308, 6.5 c or .260 rem. they all have their pros and cons it seems. |
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Posted: 2/8/2016 11:56:57 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
im up in the air as far as finishing a dpms upper. im not sure which caliber to run with. 308, 6.5 c or .260 rem. they all have their pros and cons it seems. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Max performance will most likely come from the bolt gun vs. the gas gun for pressure (limiting) reasons. I have both a gas (DPMS LR-65) and bolt gun (Ruger PR)... I too was going to do a gas 6.5 CM build but have decided to stick to the bolt gun for my 6.5 CM shooting... at least for now... I was seeing dinged up brass with swipe marks in the LR-65 with loads that were fine in the bolt gun. My LIMITED experience with loading for the two rifles THUS FAR has shown I can't push the gas gun loads like I can the bolt gun loads... but it's not an issue with me because I am a recreational shooter and don't shoot in competitions. It's still a great cartridge whether in a gas or bolt... you recommend 308 in a gas gun over 6.5 ? No... just mentioning gas guns in general have limitations due to gas systems that bolt guns don't. im up in the air as far as finishing a dpms upper. im not sure which caliber to run with. 308, 6.5 c or .260 rem. they all have their pros and cons it seems. I'd say it depends on your needs and wants and perhaps how much you plan to shoot. Cost wise I think the .308 can be shot cheaper in general, and at ranges under say 600 yards, the .308 gives up nothing (as far as I'm concerned) to the 6.5CM. 6.5CM is a hot cartridge right now... a couple years ago when I got my first 6.5CM 1X fired brass was plentiful on GB, now it's not that easy to find and costly when you do fine it... I'm in hopes that eases up in the near future. Right now, .308 components are everywhere, 6.5CM, not so much. I'm sure I'll give in and do a 20" RLG 6.5CM build on and Aero Upper/Lower using a BA barrel... I'm just kidding myself saying I'm not... 
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Posted: 2/8/2016 12:08:53 PM EDT
[#6]
im on the fence on ordering a lilja 24 inch in 6.5 , or a rainier arms ultra match 308. i have no real needs with what im building, just want good performance. out to around 800 out of a gas rifle. i would hunt with this set up too but would probably stay under 300 yards for deer sized animals.
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Posted: 2/8/2016 1:20:16 PM EDT
[#7]
Some get downright religious on the issue of alternative AR platforms and their calibers. I've been mulling over two alternatives in the 6mm (AR15) and 6.5/.260 (AR10) platforms. The Creedmoor and .260 Rem are about identical from what I think I'm seeing ballistically. However, if one reloads, I'm thinking the .260 allows you to keep the AR10 magazines and bolts and just change the barrel. The 6.5 Creedmoor is a different case, correct? The .260 allows you to manipulate .243, 7mm-.08, and .308 brass to reload that caliber. For strictly off-the-shelf ammo, perhaps 6.5C has the advantage. I'm no expert in this category, but I do reload. I'm leaning toward .260 Rem for my alternative AR10 as I already reload for .308 and .243. I also have a 6x45 setup coming for my AR15 alternative. Both look like simple platforms for reloading.
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Posted: 2/8/2016 1:28:57 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some get downright religious on the issue of alternative AR platforms and their calibers. I've been mulling over two alternatives in the 6mm (AR15) and 6.5/.260 (AR10) platforms. The Creedmoor and .260 Rem are about identical from what I think I'm seeing ballistically. However, if one reloads, I'm thinking the .260 allows you to keep the AR10 magazines and bolts and just change the barrel. The 6.5 Creedmoor is a different case, correct? The .260 allows you to manipulate .243, 7mm-.08, and .308 brass to reload that caliber. For strictly off-the-shelf ammo, perhaps 6.5C has the advantage. I'm no expert in this category, but I do reload. I'm leaning toward .260 Rem for my alternative AR10 as I already reload for .308 and .243. I also have a 6x45 setup coming for my AR15 alternative. Both look like simple platforms for reloading. i believe the 6.5cm is shorter, making it basically a non issue feeding into mags |
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Posted: 2/8/2016 1:54:48 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i believe the 6.5cm is shorter, making it basically a non issue feeding into mags Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Some get downright religious on the issue of alternative AR platforms and their calibers. I've been mulling over two alternatives in the 6mm (AR15) and 6.5/.260 (AR10) platforms. The Creedmoor and .260 Rem are about identical from what I think I'm seeing ballistically. However, if one reloads, I'm thinking the .260 allows you to keep the AR10 magazines and bolts and just change the barrel. The 6.5 Creedmoor is a different case, correct? The .260 allows you to manipulate .243, 7mm-.08, and .308 brass to reload that caliber. For strictly off-the-shelf ammo, perhaps 6.5C has the advantage. I'm no expert in this category, but I do reload. I'm leaning toward .260 Rem for my alternative AR10 as I already reload for .308 and .243. I also have a 6x45 setup coming for my AR15 alternative. Both look like simple platforms for reloading. i believe the 6.5cm is shorter, making it basically a non issue feeding into mags I actually tried doing a little research on this before posting, but a lot of it apparently was associated only with bolt rifles after wading through a bunch of info...so I'm not totally clear on my remarks. I notice the 6.5C uses a case called "30TC". Is that case rim .308 compatible as far as the bolt goes? |
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Posted: 2/8/2016 2:06:10 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some get downright religious on the issue of alternative AR platforms and their calibers. I've been mulling over two alternatives in the 6mm (AR15) and 6.5/.260 (AR10) platforms. The Creedmoor and .260 Rem are about identical from what I think I'm seeing ballistically. However, if one reloads, I'm thinking the .260 allows you to keep the AR10 magazines and bolts and just change the barrel. The 6.5 Creedmoor is a different case, correct? The .260 allows you to manipulate .243, 7mm-.08, and .308 brass to reload that caliber. For strictly off-the-shelf ammo, perhaps 6.5C has the advantage. I'm no expert in this category, but I do reload. I'm leaning toward .260 Rem for my alternative AR10 as I already reload for .308 and .243. I also have a 6x45 setup coming for my AR15 alternative. Both look like simple platforms for reloading. 6.5 Creedmoor shares the same bolt, as it's a .473" case head diameter like .308 Win. It's Hornady's old 30 TC necked down to 6.5mm. 6.5 Creedmoor has more affordable match and hunting ammo from the factory, however, all those loads are developed with bolt guns in mind. Same goes for the .260 Remington, but the price of factory ammo is much higher for some reason, not that I shoot factory ammo in .260 Rem anyway. From a hand-loader's perspective, you have more case capacity with the .260 Rem, while the 6.5CM has a 30 degree shoulder. You have Lapua brass availability with the .260 Rem, in addition to Remington, Nosler, and Norma. 6.5 Creemoor has Hornady, Winchester, Norma, and Nosler. 
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Posted: 2/8/2016 5:27:30 PM EDT
[#11]
So LRRP, it's just a barrel change on an AR10 platform for 6.5C and .260 Rem since mags and bolts will interchange...correct? That makes it simple...as long as one can find an Armalite compatible barrel in my case, which I guess isn't too hard.
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Posted: 2/8/2016 6:24:30 PM EDT
[#12]
well the 6.5 CM with the 30 degree shoulder was made for gas guns right? the steeper shoulder protrudes the bullet out farther leaving more room for case capacity
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Posted: 2/8/2016 6:32:03 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So LRRP, it's just a barrel change on an AR10 platform for 6.5C and .260 Rem since mags and bolts will interchange...correct? That makes it simple...as long as one can find an Armalite compatible barrel in my case, which I guess isn't too hard. Mechanically, it's just a barrel change, yes. ArmaLite made production .260 Rem AR10B's with a Douglas Select Match barrel for a number of years. I'm not sure who makes drop-in barrels in either caliber for the ArmaLite. I would recommend going custom or using a drop-in barrel with a corresponding BCG to match it. |
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Posted: 2/8/2016 8:54:31 PM EDT
[#14]
You gotta be nuts to go .308 over 6.5CM, imnsho.
I've got both a bolt and gas gun in 6.5CM, and I'd take a Grendel WAY before a .308 as I've seen kids banging steel at 500yds with both, and their hit rate is always far higher with the 6.5CM/Grendel. Anything 6.5 seems to beat the pants off the .308 at distance. |
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Posted: 2/8/2016 11:01:36 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You gotta be nuts to go .308 over 6.5CM, imnsho. I've got both a bolt and gas gun in 6.5CM, and I'd take a Grendel WAY before a .308 as I've seen kids banging steel at 500yds with both, and their hit rate is always far higher with the 6.5CM/Grendel. Anything 6.5 seems to beat the pants off the .308 at distance. While I'm considering a 6.5C or .260 Rem, not sure I totally agree with your assessment of the .308. Not all hunting or otherwise is always happening at 500 yards and beyond. At really long range the 6.5C/.260 Rem is a real benefit. However, even most elk hunting occurs well within the effectiveness of the .308 and with more energy. I'm not saying 6.5C or .260 Rem wouldn't do fine on elk, but .308 still has some superiority within its "ideal" envelope. It's the bullet drop that kills the .308 at really long distances. It's all in the environment in which you're shooting that makes one better than the other. For putting a hole in paper at just about any range, my money would be on the 6.5C/.260. For bigger game hunting up to 400 yards, it would be on the .308...above that, the 6.5C/.260...because at those farther distances you can't kill what you can't hit...LOL! A friend in my area recently got one of those Ruger precision bolt rifles in 6.5C. Yeah, it's what's making me consider the idea of a 6.5 bullet AR. |
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Posted: 2/9/2016 1:33:29 AM EDT
[#16]
It's just more pleasant to shoot the 6.5mm cartridges, and they hit hard.
A .260 Rem with a 142gr Nosler ABLR going only 2750fps mv has more energy than a .30-06 wih 150gr at 3050fps mv from 275yds on out. It's not really fair to compare it with the .308 Win. Hit probability is higher with them than .308 because you can see your own impacts easily even at close ranges, whereas .308 is much more difficult to apply follow-through. The problem is getting the 6.5CM and .260 Rem to run well in a gas gun. |
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Posted: 2/9/2016 8:16:03 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
While I'm considering a 6.5C or .260 Rem, not sure I totally agree with your assessment of the .308. Not all hunting or otherwise is always happening at 500 yards and beyond. At really long range the 6.5C/.260 Rem is a real benefit. However, even most elk hunting occurs well within the effectiveness of the .308 and with more energy. I'm not saying 6.5C or .260 Rem wouldn't do fine on elk, but .308 still has some superiority within its "ideal" envelope. It's the bullet drop that kills the .308 at really long distances. It's all in the environment in which you're shooting that makes one better than the other. For putting a hole in paper at just about any range, my money would be on the 6.5C/.260. For bigger game hunting up to 400 yards, it would be on the .308...above that, the 6.5C/.260...because at those farther distances you can't kill what you can't hit...LOL! A friend in my area recently got one of those Ruger precision bolt rifles in 6.5C. Yeah, it's what's making me consider the idea of a 6.5 bullet AR. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You gotta be nuts to go .308 over 6.5CM, imnsho. I've got both a bolt and gas gun in 6.5CM, and I'd take a Grendel WAY before a .308 as I've seen kids banging steel at 500yds with both, and their hit rate is always far higher with the 6.5CM/Grendel. Anything 6.5 seems to beat the pants off the .308 at distance. While I'm considering a 6.5C or .260 Rem, not sure I totally agree with your assessment of the .308. Not all hunting or otherwise is always happening at 500 yards and beyond. At really long range the 6.5C/.260 Rem is a real benefit. However, even most elk hunting occurs well within the effectiveness of the .308 and with more energy. I'm not saying 6.5C or .260 Rem wouldn't do fine on elk, but .308 still has some superiority within its "ideal" envelope. It's the bullet drop that kills the .308 at really long distances. It's all in the environment in which you're shooting that makes one better than the other. For putting a hole in paper at just about any range, my money would be on the 6.5C/.260. For bigger game hunting up to 400 yards, it would be on the .308...above that, the 6.5C/.260...because at those farther distances you can't kill what you can't hit...LOL! A friend in my area recently got one of those Ruger precision bolt rifles in 6.5C. Yeah, it's what's making me consider the idea of a 6.5 bullet AR. A zillion Swedish moose disagree with you. But I understand the point, I think it's faulty though. Placement and bullet construction are far more important to me than bullet weight. There are lots of variables and everyone has their favorite, I just don't see the reality of bullet weight/energy or the old standby 'knock down power', give me good sectional density in a well made bullet, in approximately the right spot and it's fine. Otherwise all those bow hunters have been doing it wrong. |
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Posted: 2/9/2016 10:35:35 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A zillion Swedish moose disagree with you. But I understand the point, I think it's faulty though. Placement and bullet construction are far more important to me than bullet weight. There are lots of variables and everyone has their favorite, I just don't see the reality of bullet weight/energy or the old standby 'knock down power', give me good sectional density in a well made bullet, in approximately the right spot and it's fine. Otherwise all those bow hunters have been doing it wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You gotta be nuts to go .308 over 6.5CM, imnsho. I've got both a bolt and gas gun in 6.5CM, and I'd take a Grendel WAY before a .308 as I've seen kids banging steel at 500yds with both, and their hit rate is always far higher with the 6.5CM/Grendel. Anything 6.5 seems to beat the pants off the .308 at distance. While I'm considering a 6.5C or .260 Rem, not sure I totally agree with your assessment of the .308. Not all hunting or otherwise is always happening at 500 yards and beyond. At really long range the 6.5C/.260 Rem is a real benefit. However, even most elk hunting occurs well within the effectiveness of the .308 and with more energy. I'm not saying 6.5C or .260 Rem wouldn't do fine on elk, but .308 still has some superiority within its "ideal" envelope. It's the bullet drop that kills the .308 at really long distances. It's all in the environment in which you're shooting that makes one better than the other. For putting a hole in paper at just about any range, my money would be on the 6.5C/.260. For bigger game hunting up to 400 yards, it would be on the .308...above that, the 6.5C/.260...because at those farther distances you can't kill what you can't hit...LOL! A friend in my area recently got one of those Ruger precision bolt rifles in 6.5C. Yeah, it's what's making me consider the idea of a 6.5 bullet AR. A zillion Swedish moose disagree with you. But I understand the point, I think it's faulty though. Placement and bullet construction are far more important to me than bullet weight. There are lots of variables and everyone has their favorite, I just don't see the reality of bullet weight/energy or the old standby 'knock down power', give me good sectional density in a well made bullet, in approximately the right spot and it's fine. Otherwise all those bow hunters have been doing it wrong. i agree with the well designed bullet coupled with a well placed shot is more or less perfectly fine in most hunting situations. but i cant bring myself to use something smaller then a .300 wm for an elk sized animal. the shear size and strength of the animal can turn a well placed shot into an all night seach in ugly country. ill take a magnum WITH a well designed bullet and take the best shot i can. i want as many odds in my favor 
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Posted: 2/9/2016 12:22:38 PM EDT
[#19]
Good info!
Getting my .308 build to work correctly, was challenging enough (learned lots though because it). The last thing I want to do is waste time and money on a build, using a cartridge, that may or may not work out of the rifle. I'll stick with my Ruger PR, and do a barrel swap to 6.5 CM at some point down the road. Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's just more pleasant to shoot the 6.5mm cartridges, and they hit hard. A .260 Rem with a 142gr Nosler ABLR going only 2750fps mv has more energy than a .30-06 wih 150gr at 3050fps mv from 275yds on out. It's not really fair to compare it with the .308 Win. Hit probability is higher with them than .308 because you can see your own impacts easily even at close ranges, whereas .308 is much more difficult to apply follow-through. The problem is getting the 6.5CM and .260 Rem to run well in a gas gun. |
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Posted: 2/9/2016 12:32:24 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i agree with the well designed bullet coupled with a well placed shot is more or less perfectly fine in most hunting situations. but i cant bring myself to use something smaller then a .300 wm for an elk sized animal. the shear size and strength of the animal can turn a well placed shot into an all night seach in ugly country. ill take a magnum WITH a well designed bullet and take the best shot i can. i want as many odds in my favor Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You gotta be nuts to go .308 over 6.5CM, imnsho. I've got both a bolt and gas gun in 6.5CM, and I'd take a Grendel WAY before a .308 as I've seen kids banging steel at 500yds with both, and their hit rate is always far higher with the 6.5CM/Grendel. Anything 6.5 seems to beat the pants off the .308 at distance. While I'm considering a 6.5C or .260 Rem, not sure I totally agree with your assessment of the .308. Not all hunting or otherwise is always happening at 500 yards and beyond. At really long range the 6.5C/.260 Rem is a real benefit. However, even most elk hunting occurs well within the effectiveness of the .308 and with more energy. I'm not saying 6.5C or .260 Rem wouldn't do fine on elk, but .308 still has some superiority within its "ideal" envelope. It's the bullet drop that kills the .308 at really long distances. It's all in the environment in which you're shooting that makes one better than the other. For putting a hole in paper at just about any range, my money would be on the 6.5C/.260. For bigger game hunting up to 400 yards, it would be on the .308...above that, the 6.5C/.260...because at those farther distances you can't kill what you can't hit...LOL! A friend in my area recently got one of those Ruger precision bolt rifles in 6.5C. Yeah, it's what's making me consider the idea of a 6.5 bullet AR. A zillion Swedish moose disagree with you. But I understand the point, I think it's faulty though. Placement and bullet construction are far more important to me than bullet weight. There are lots of variables and everyone has their favorite, I just don't see the reality of bullet weight/energy or the old standby 'knock down power', give me good sectional density in a well made bullet, in approximately the right spot and it's fine. Otherwise all those bow hunters have been doing it wrong. i agree with the well designed bullet coupled with a well placed shot is more or less perfectly fine in most hunting situations. but i cant bring myself to use something smaller then a .300 wm for an elk sized animal. the shear size and strength of the animal can turn a well placed shot into an all night seach in ugly country. ill take a magnum WITH a well designed bullet and take the best shot i can. i want as many odds in my favor 300 Win Mag???...well that's downright cheating...LOL! Yeah, that's a really good bullet. I've even toyed with the idea of one of those 300WM AR platforms, but I might actually need my spare kidney at some point. My 13-year old niece dropped a big bull elk at 250 yards with her Tikka .308 off of a Primos shooting stick in Cloudcroft, NM not too long ago, and it dropped DRT. I still contend the .308 is a good choice as long as you're not getting silly on distance. That's the beauty and contention of so many truly effective calibers out there at the moment. Couple that with bullet technology/development available now, and the water only gets muddier. |
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Posted: 2/9/2016 1:13:42 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
300 Win Mag???...well that's downright cheating...LOL! Yeah, that's a really good bullet. I've even toyed with the idea of one of those 300WM AR platforms, but I might actually need my spare kidney at some point. My 13-year old niece dropped a big bull elk at 250 yards with her Tikka .308 off of a Primos shooting stick in Cloudcroft, NM not too long ago, and it dropped DRT. I still contend the .308 is a good choice as long as you're not getting silly on distance. That's the beauty and contention of so many truly effective calibers out there at the moment. Couple that with bullet technology/development available now, and the water only gets muddier. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You gotta be nuts to go .308 over 6.5CM, imnsho. I've got both a bolt and gas gun in 6.5CM, and I'd take a Grendel WAY before a .308 as I've seen kids banging steel at 500yds with both, and their hit rate is always far higher with the 6.5CM/Grendel. Anything 6.5 seems to beat the pants off the .308 at distance. While I'm considering a 6.5C or .260 Rem, not sure I totally agree with your assessment of the .308. Not all hunting or otherwise is always happening at 500 yards and beyond. At really long range the 6.5C/.260 Rem is a real benefit. However, even most elk hunting occurs well within the effectiveness of the .308 and with more energy. I'm not saying 6.5C or .260 Rem wouldn't do fine on elk, but .308 still has some superiority within its "ideal" envelope. It's the bullet drop that kills the .308 at really long distances. It's all in the environment in which you're shooting that makes one better than the other. For putting a hole in paper at just about any range, my money would be on the 6.5C/.260. For bigger game hunting up to 400 yards, it would be on the .308...above that, the 6.5C/.260...because at those farther distances you can't kill what you can't hit...LOL! A friend in my area recently got one of those Ruger precision bolt rifles in 6.5C. Yeah, it's what's making me consider the idea of a 6.5 bullet AR. A zillion Swedish moose disagree with you. But I understand the point, I think it's faulty though. Placement and bullet construction are far more important to me than bullet weight. There are lots of variables and everyone has their favorite, I just don't see the reality of bullet weight/energy or the old standby 'knock down power', give me good sectional density in a well made bullet, in approximately the right spot and it's fine. Otherwise all those bow hunters have been doing it wrong. i agree with the well designed bullet coupled with a well placed shot is more or less perfectly fine in most hunting situations. but i cant bring myself to use something smaller then a .300 wm for an elk sized animal. the shear size and strength of the animal can turn a well placed shot into an all night seach in ugly country. ill take a magnum WITH a well designed bullet and take the best shot i can. i want as many odds in my favor 300 Win Mag???...well that's downright cheating...LOL! Yeah, that's a really good bullet. I've even toyed with the idea of one of those 300WM AR platforms, but I might actually need my spare kidney at some point. My 13-year old niece dropped a big bull elk at 250 yards with her Tikka .308 off of a Primos shooting stick in Cloudcroft, NM not too long ago, and it dropped DRT. I still contend the .308 is a good choice as long as you're not getting silly on distance. That's the beauty and contention of so many truly effective calibers out there at the moment. Couple that with bullet technology/development available now, and the water only gets muddier. my father in law shot a cow elk last year with his 300 rum at around 250 yards. i believe he uses 200 gr barnes. he hit it twice broadside in the lungs and it still went 300 yards over the next hill before dropping. both shots were full pass through. these animals a beyond tough and for whatever reason can hold up for a while. id imagine 9 times out of 10 an elk wouldn't go more then 50 yards being hit like that, but this one had a will to keep going. falkor defense makes a beautiful 300 win. i think you would need to sell both kidneys to get it though 
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Posted: 2/9/2016 2:40:19 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good info! Getting my .308 build to work correctly, was challenging enough (learned lots though because it). The last thing I want to do is waste time and money on a build, using a cartridge, that may or may not work out of the rifle. I'll stick with my Ruger PR, and do a barrel swap to 6.5 CM at some point down the road. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good info! Getting my .308 build to work correctly, was challenging enough (learned lots though because it). The last thing I want to do is waste time and money on a build, using a cartridge, that may or may not work out of the rifle. I'll stick with my Ruger PR, and do a barrel swap to 6.5 CM at some point down the road. Quoted:
It's just more pleasant to shoot the 6.5mm cartridges, and they hit hard. A .260 Rem with a 142gr Nosler ABLR going only 2750fps mv has more energy than a .30-06 wih 150gr at 3050fps mv from 275yds on out. It's not really fair to compare it with the .308 Win. Hit probability is higher with them than .308 because you can see your own impacts easily even at close ranges, whereas .308 is much more difficult to apply follow-through. The problem is getting the 6.5CM and .260 Rem to run well in a gas gun. I read all the horror stories about reliable cycling with the 6.5CM before I started buying parts for my build. Maybe I got lucky, but my 6.5 CM build has cycled everything I have put through it. that's at least 10 different loads with 5 different bullets. Looking for that perfect match for accuracy. I bought all the adjustability I could i.e. adjustable gas block, low mass BCG, JP capture spring with 3 different springs. I set everything to the middle for a baseline thinking it would be a good starting point and I have adjusted nothing as of yet. So it's hard for me to imagine how hard it could be. Not saying others haven't seen issues. I just haven't seen any personally. |
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Posted: 2/9/2016 4:56:59 PM EDT
[#24]
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Elk fall readily to the .308/ 7.62x51 with decent shot placement. <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/2015%20Elk/IMG_20151220_174349_zpsrtfpntod.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/2015%20Elk/IMG_20151220_174349_zpsrtfpntod.jpg</a> <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/2015%20Elk/Nephi%20Elk%202015-1_zps5dda75nl.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/2015%20Elk/Nephi%20Elk%202015-1_zps5dda75nl.jpg</a> The 6.5 Creedmoor also works very well. <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/2015%20Elk/Tony%20S%20elk%202015-1_zps7dexern1.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/2015%20Elk/Tony%20S%20elk%202015-1_zps7dexern1.jpg</a> Many more elk are lost to guys who are overgunned than undergunned. 
The 6.5 Creedmoor does offer less recoil and less wind drift with essentially the same terminal effect. I still think the .308 Win is a fine round for a gas gun but the 6.5 CM is growing on me.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
my father in law shot a cow elk last year with his 300 rum at around 250 yards. i believe he uses 200 gr barnes. he hit it twice broadside in the lungs and it still went 300 yards over the next hill before dropping. both shots were full pass through. these animals a beyond tough and for whatever reason can hold up for a while. id imagine 9 times out of 10 an elk wouldn't go more then 50 yards being hit like that, but this one had a will to keep going. Elk fall readily to the .308/ 7.62x51 with decent shot placement. <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/2015%20Elk/IMG_20151220_174349_zpsrtfpntod.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/2015%20Elk/IMG_20151220_174349_zpsrtfpntod.jpg</a> <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/2015%20Elk/Nephi%20Elk%202015-1_zps5dda75nl.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/2015%20Elk/Nephi%20Elk%202015-1_zps5dda75nl.jpg</a> The 6.5 Creedmoor also works very well. <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/2015%20Elk/Tony%20S%20elk%202015-1_zps7dexern1.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/2015%20Elk/Tony%20S%20elk%202015-1_zps7dexern1.jpg</a> Many more elk are lost to guys who are overgunned than undergunned.
The 6.5 Creedmoor does offer less recoil and less wind drift with essentially the same terminal effect. I still think the .308 Win is a fine round for a gas gun but the 6.5 CM is growing on me. very nice! at what distance was the elk taken at with the 6.5? |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 2:07:05 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
very nice! at what distance was the elk taken at with the 6.5? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
my father in law shot a cow elk last year with his 300 rum at around 250 yards. i believe he uses 200 gr barnes. he hit it twice broadside in the lungs and it still went 300 yards over the next hill before dropping. both shots were full pass through. these animals a beyond tough and for whatever reason can hold up for a while. id imagine 9 times out of 10 an elk wouldn't go more then 50 yards being hit like that, but this one had a will to keep going. Elk fall readily to the .308/ 7.62x51 with decent shot placement. <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/2015%20Elk/IMG_20151220_174349_zpsrtfpntod.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/2015%20Elk/IMG_20151220_174349_zpsrtfpntod.jpg</a> <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/2015%20Elk/Nephi%20Elk%202015-1_zps5dda75nl.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/2015%20Elk/Nephi%20Elk%202015-1_zps5dda75nl.jpg</a> The 6.5 Creedmoor also works very well. <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/2015%20Elk/Tony%20S%20elk%202015-1_zps7dexern1.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/2015%20Elk/Tony%20S%20elk%202015-1_zps7dexern1.jpg</a> Many more elk are lost to guys who are overgunned than undergunned.
The 6.5 Creedmoor does offer less recoil and less wind drift with essentially the same terminal effect. I still think the .308 Win is a fine round for a gas gun but the 6.5 CM is growing on me. very nice! at what distance was the elk taken at with the 6.5? 400yds. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 3:14:35 PM EDT
[#26]
It's the 21st Century.
Don't you think it's about time we move on to what was already available in 1896? The US retarded small arms development substantially with .30 bores, while also advancing small arms development with industry of scale, making .30 bores even more prominent worldwide, since our European allies were basically forced to adopt it as well. For anyone looking at target and hunting, you will have much better results with a 6.5mm since you can train affordably with the cartridge without any recoil fatigue in most cases. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 4:09:40 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
400yds. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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my father in law shot a cow elk last year with his 300 rum at around 250 yards. i believe he uses 200 gr barnes. he hit it twice broadside in the lungs and it still went 300 yards over the next hill before dropping. both shots were full pass through. these animals a beyond tough and for whatever reason can hold up for a while. id imagine 9 times out of 10 an elk wouldn't go more then 50 yards being hit like that, but this one had a will to keep going. Elk fall readily to the .308/ 7.62x51 with decent shot placement. <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/2015%20Elk/IMG_20151220_174349_zpsrtfpntod.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/2015%20Elk/IMG_20151220_174349_zpsrtfpntod.jpg</a> <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/2015%20Elk/Nephi%20Elk%202015-1_zps5dda75nl.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/2015%20Elk/Nephi%20Elk%202015-1_zps5dda75nl.jpg</a> The 6.5 Creedmoor also works very well. <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/2015%20Elk/Tony%20S%20elk%202015-1_zps7dexern1.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/2015%20Elk/Tony%20S%20elk%202015-1_zps7dexern1.jpg</a> Many more elk are lost to guys who are overgunned than undergunned.
The 6.5 Creedmoor does offer less recoil and less wind drift with essentially the same terminal effect. I still think the .308 Win is a fine round for a gas gun but the 6.5 CM is growing on me. very nice! at what distance was the elk taken at with the 6.5? 400yds. what bullet? |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 4:15:26 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's the 21st Century. Don't you think it's about time we move on to what was already available in 1896? The US retarded small arms development substantially with .30 bores, while also advancing small arms development with industry of scale, making .30 bores even more prominent worldwide, since our European allies were basically forced to adopt it as well. For anyone looking at target and hunting, you will have much better results with a 6.5mm since you can train affordably with the cartridge without any recoil fatigue in most cases. I kind of agree with you that the military could have selected better between a 5.56 and 7.62. However, I was curious about your statement of training affordably with 6.5. I realize "training affordably" can have a sort of Clintonian perspective, but are economical cartridges for the 6.5 as plentiful as the .308? And perhaps comparing your bulk NATO style FMJ 7.62X51 isn't equal to the "minimums" I see for 6.5, but it does seem to allow a decent amount of range time...not hunting of course. Oh, on recoil if we're talking about .308 AR, I'm recoil sensitive and don't think there's any appreciable recoil for hours of shooting my two AR10's or the RFB. Bolt rifles...I'm with ya...LOL! |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 7:43:57 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
what bullet? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
my father in law shot a cow elk last year with his 300 rum at around 250 yards. i believe he uses 200 gr barnes. he hit it twice broadside in the lungs and it still went 300 yards over the next hill before dropping. both shots were full pass through. these animals a beyond tough and for whatever reason can hold up for a while. id imagine 9 times out of 10 an elk wouldn't go more then 50 yards being hit like that, but this one had a will to keep going. Elk fall readily to the .308/ 7.62x51 with decent shot placement. <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/2015%20Elk/IMG_20151220_174349_zpsrtfpntod.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/2015%20Elk/IMG_20151220_174349_zpsrtfpntod.jpg</a> <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/2015%20Elk/Nephi%20Elk%202015-1_zps5dda75nl.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/2015%20Elk/Nephi%20Elk%202015-1_zps5dda75nl.jpg</a> The 6.5 Creedmoor also works very well. <a href="http://s1205.photobucket.com/user/GreybullPrecision/media/2015%20Elk/Tony%20S%20elk%202015-1_zps7dexern1.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/2015%20Elk/Tony%20S%20elk%202015-1_zps7dexern1.jpg</a> Many more elk are lost to guys who are overgunned than undergunned.
The 6.5 Creedmoor does offer less recoil and less wind drift with essentially the same terminal effect. I still think the .308 Win is a fine round for a gas gun but the 6.5 CM is growing on me. very nice! at what distance was the elk taken at with the 6.5? 400yds. what bullet? 123gr AMAX. It killed the elk fine but penetration was barely adequate on a rib shot and might be a problem if you need to get through a shoulder. I think I will be switching to the Berger 130 Gr VLD. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 8:21:16 PM EDT
[#30]
Have you considered the 129gr Nosler ABLR?
129gr Hornady Interbond would be another. Barnes 127gr LRX or even a 130gr TSX, 120gr TSX would be great. |
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Posted: 2/10/2016 9:14:41 PM EDT
[#31]
Or the new eld-x . I'm very curious about that bullet.
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Posted: 2/10/2016 9:28:28 PM EDT
[#32]
Just so i understand this, its not really possible to get a working, factory-built semi-auto 6.5 CM?
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Posted: 2/10/2016 9:32:00 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just so i understand this, its not really possible to get a working, factory-built 6.5 CM? No, my DPMS LR6.5 works quite well. Yeah, it can be rough on brass but it shoots well and has been reliable thus far. |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 7:59:27 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have you considered the 129gr Nosler ABLR? 129gr Hornady Interbond would be another. Barnes 127gr LRX or even a 130gr TSX, 120gr TSX would be great. I am not a fan of monos or anything bonded for a killing bullet. The AMAX is probably a bit soft for the speed (2950 fps) but VLDs work great. The 130gr VLD has the same form as the 140gr VLD, just a little less lead in the core so it has a great BC. My personal preference on penetration is pass through on a ribs only shot but stay in if a shoulder is hit. |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 8:05:19 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am not a fan of monos or anything bonded for a killing bullet. The AMAX is probably a bit soft for the speed (2950 fps) but VLDs work great. The 130gr VLD has the same form as the 140gr VLD, just a little less lead in the core so it has a great BC. My personal preference on penetration is pass through on a ribs only shot but stay in if a shoulder is hit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Have you considered the 129gr Nosler ABLR? 129gr Hornady Interbond would be another. Barnes 127gr LRX or even a 130gr TSX, 120gr TSX would be great. I am not a fan of monos or anything bonded for a killing bullet. The AMAX is probably a bit soft for the speed (2950 fps) but VLDs work great. The 130gr VLD has the same form as the 140gr VLD, just a little less lead in the core so it has a great BC. My personal preference on penetration is pass through on a ribs only shot but stay in if a shoulder is hit. I use the 130gr VLD myself for target work in the .260 Rem over the 140gr for speed and flatter trajectory. Why don't you like bonded bullets or monos? 129gr SST is good if you don't like premium pills. |
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Posted: 2/11/2016 8:13:07 PM EDT
[#36]
perusing material about 6.5CM is cheap
actually pursuing it can be expensive might be worth it, however |
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Posted: 2/12/2016 10:23:09 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just so i understand this, its not really possible to get a working, factory-built semi-auto 6.5 CM? |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 12:16:33 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I use the 130gr VLD myself for target work in the .260 Rem over the 140gr for speed and flatter trajectory. Why don't you like bonded bullets or monos? 129gr SST is good if you don't like premium pills. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Have you considered the 129gr Nosler ABLR? 129gr Hornady Interbond would be another. Barnes 127gr LRX or even a 130gr TSX, 120gr TSX would be great. I am not a fan of monos or anything bonded for a killing bullet. The AMAX is probably a bit soft for the speed (2950 fps) but VLDs work great. The 130gr VLD has the same form as the 140gr VLD, just a little less lead in the core so it has a great BC. My personal preference on penetration is pass through on a ribs only shot but stay in if a shoulder is hit. I use the 130gr VLD myself for target work in the .260 Rem over the 140gr for speed and flatter trajectory. Why don't you like bonded bullets or monos? 129gr SST is good if you don't like premium pills. The first elk ever killed with the 6.5 CM was a 129gr SST. Worked like a champ for Wayne VanZwoll at 600 yds. I built the gun, ranged the shot. and called the hit. Bolt gun and a good but not great bullet. Bonding the core or monos reduce wound channel diameter to increase penetration. I prefer larger wound channel diameter. If I place the shot right I want as much destruction to the vital tissue as possible. VLDs create the best wound channel for me if muzzle velocities are at or near 3000fps. Other might and have disagreed. |
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Posted: 2/13/2016 10:42:57 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
perusing material about 6.5CM is cheap actually pursuing it can be expensive might be worth it, however I see what you did there. 
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