Took my new toy to the range today. I bought it last week, cleaned it, bought a PMAG and a bunch of ZQ1 7.62 at Wallymart. Also got a cheap Centerpoint 4-16 and some tall rings and put that on.

So I first put a target at 50 yards... Zero'ed as well as I could but it wasn't consistent. Put it out at 100, still not consistent. Able to keep all the holes on a 10x12 target but that's about it. Out of 20 about 3/4 are within about a 6" circle but the rest are all over.

Other than that the only noticeable issue is the trigger gritty feel/ creep noted by others and the bolt doesn't lock back after the PMAG is empty, also noted by others. Shot 60 rounds with no other issues.

So I get it home and take it apart to clean. It's dirtier than I expected, way dirtier than my AR15 has ever been, even after a couple hundred round days. I also found some concerning metal shavings ( just two, one about 1/2" and another maybe 1/4") and a couple flakes of what looks like brass. I think the flakes are coming off the casings. Also the firing pin has some odd scratches, very fine, about halfway down the pin.

So, any ideas about the accuracy? Shoot it more and see how it goes? Same with the shavings and flakes?

What is the trick to dremel the PMAG to lock the bolt back?

Anything else you think I should be thinking about?

Damn dude, that sucks getting a new rifle and having grouping problems.

Clean it VERY WELL, and give it a good look over for WEAR patterns.

You could check to make sure everything is tight that is supposed to be tight.

This is a pretty good CHECKLIST

GOOD LUCK!

~Will

First off ZQ1 isn't accurate ammo.

Centerpoint scopes aren't the best.

So, you need to shoot better ammo and ensure the scope is mounted right and make sure it isn't the scope.

+1

buy a NIKON, leupold, Burris, etc., and a quality mount.  

I like the LARUE SPR-E, because it moves the scope forward, so you can get a proper cheekweld

Thanks, I'll try some better ammo and pull the scope off my AR-15 (that is very accurate) and give that a try. Anyone can explain the dremel mod to the PMAGs to get it to lock back?

You can get a good zero with irons at 50 yards/meters and tell how your grouping is.  Just aim at the same spot.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=201651

Another +1.

I blame ammo and scope. Cheap scopes don't mix well with ARs. A good mount can/will help, but won't fix a cheap scope.

Check out swfa.com, lots of good deals on various scopes. Their branded stuff is great for the money.

Try better, American ammo. ZQ1 is dirty and inconsistent. Try the American fmj stuff, winchester, American Eagle, etc,

But, if you wanna do it right, learn to shoot your gun good with iron sights first

I say the same thing.  Buy a box of decent ammo.  Remove bad scope.  Shoot 5 rounds at 50 yards with irons.  Just aim center of target to get your group consistent.  If you are all over the place then, you have issues.

If its good, mount your scope, get a quick zero at 50 feet.  Bump out to 50 yards, and see if your still on paper.  Adjust and shoot 5 on a clean target for a group.  If its holding a group, set a target at 100, shoot a couple to get scope where you need it, and shoot remainder of ammo for a group.

Buy a decent scope, doesnt have to be $1000, even a low end Vortex or a Primary Arms will do.  Get a good sturdy mount.  I run a Vortex Crossfire 4-12X44 in an Aero mount on my AR, and it works fine.  For what I shoot, 200 yards and in right now, its more than enough.  Want to get out further?  You need better glass.

Thanks again. I picked the scope up on a whim at Wally and will return it and get some better quality ammo to try. I was thinking of the Vortex Crossfire II 4-12x50. How do you like the 44 version?

I zeroed my G2 Hunter at 80 yds., which I know is weird but that's the distance at which I'll shoot hogs.  I get consistent 2" groups, with each of these brands of ammo:

Hornady 165 Gr SST
Hornady 168 Grain A-Max
Federal Vital Shok 180 Gr
Remmington CorLokt 180 Gr

I think the gun is capable of way better than 2", I'm just not a very good shot.  Only about 400 rounds through it, but haven't had a single failure to fire/eject and the bolt locks open after emptying every pmag I bought

Centerpoint scopes from Wal-Mart are going to shake and break under .308 semi-auto fire.  They simply aren't worth the materials they were made from.

Many scopes of this nature will experience reticle and erector tube shift under recoil.

Primary Arms makes some great scopes for the $$$.  I had a 1-4x24 on my 5.56 rifle and it worked great with their mount.  Vortex optics are good too for the price point, just get a good mount/rings and you should be OK with some good ammo, maybe even try some Gold Medal Match.  It's pricey, but it's made well.

It's already been beaten to death, but yes scope and ammo choice aren't the best.  Also look at SWFA fixed power scopes. Great scopes for the money.

Doc

From personal experience, the lowest grade Vortex I would go with is the Diamondback series.  I personally like the Viper series.

I have a GII hunter.
The rifle has not fired any commercial ammo yet.
I would suggest fitting an adjustable gas block because I am sure your GII is overgassed just like mine was.
It will amaze you how clean your rifle will be after the gas has been checked. The gas block will also help with the bolt unlocking under pressure and help with the beating the brass is taking, a plus if you reload.

As for your ammo, shoot a higher quality ammo and that will be a night and day difference in accuracy. I have shot the break in and started to shoot ladders and the accuracy of my rifle is getting better and better. I have been able to shoot 3 shot groups in less than an inch at 200 yards. My sons DPMS LR308 he purchase last year shoots better than mine, and is the reason why I bought my GII.

Our rifles prefer a good load with 165 or 168gr slugs. If you are going to shoot pigs, I think the 165s or 168s will do a great job, but, You will need to shoot a quality ammo to get the good out of your new rifle.
Continue shooting and cleaning your rifle until the fouling is down to a minimum, then zero your rifle and shoot it until you see your accuracy decline. Clean, foul and continue on.
I will get a heavy buffer for my rifle when I can afford it just to be able to load a little higher and keep my crappy shoulders from being beat up on a high round pinecone hunt.

We both shoot the Primary arms 4X16 44 scope. We both use a mount and not rings. We have had no problems with the scopes or mounts as to date. $160 or so for the scope is a good deal. For the mount, There is no need to buy a 20moa base for the type of hunting and shooting you will be doing.

Good luck with your rifle. The rifle will do what you want it to do, you will need to feed it the better stuff and put a good scope on it.

I used ZQI in my Gen 1 LR308 and groups at 100 yds were about 11".
With 168grn HPBT I can get about 1 3/4" with my fixed 10X scope and 18" barrel at 100yds.
IIRC, I got about 3-4" groups with ZQI in my FAL's.
So yeah, it shoots differently in different guns.

The best I've ever been able to group the zqi was about 3 moa and I was ecstatic. More often then not, both my GII and .308 bolt HATE that shit. Very frustrating ammo because it seems one box may shoot better than another.

I shot 1.5 moa all day last Sunday with fed power shock soft points the blue box.  180 gr loads. With my GII recon

I noticed my groups get better as better as the gun broke in. I'm at about 100 rounds down the pipe now.

the only other 308 in the case American was Winchester Super X 150g, any good?

I would stay away from the 150s. I shot handloaded 150s out of my GII hunter and could not get an acceptable level of accuracy.
I think the rifles just prefer 165 size slugs. Your rifle may be way different than mine.
Once again, good luck with your rifle. It will get to where you want it to be.

Of note and I should have said earlier, mine is the GII MOE.

I've heard this before, but I pretty much exclusively use American Eagle 150g for target practice and plinking. My Armalite AR10 loved that stuff, very accurate and consistent. But, my buddy's bolt gun hated it. Flyers all over the place.

The MaTen i regretfully traded loved it as well, but never really stretched is legs though. Only irons less than 100yds while i broke it in, then traded it for a money pit firebird. I'm a man of no regrets, but that one.

OP- others have covered the cheap optics issues so I'll just say +1,000,000 on their remarks.

Finding the right ammo recipe is a bit trickier as every rifle is an individual. So far the G2 Hunter I'm working with just loves Federal Gold Match 168gr, but what .308 doesn't like Fed GM? Its the Gold Standard and mine shoots it around 3/4". The rest of the ammo I've tested so far is a mixed bag. USGI ball from the 60's as well as common bottom line hunting 150gr shoot around 2". PPU Match 175 shoot around 2.5" and I'm not impressed with the brass quality.

The worst so far has been Hornady Superformance 165gr. It splattered around 3-3.5" and the whole rifle had an odd feeling while firing it. Like it was under tremendous pressure. I've never had good luck with "premium" ammo in any caliber so no loss there but I won't shoot any more Superformance. I had the same sensation when shooting factory HSM ammo in the Olympic 300 OSSM, one of the highest psi cartridges/loads around.

For accuracy in 150gr bullet handloads I've had extremely good results with Sierra GameKing 150 BTSP. At ranges under 300 yds they shoot as well as the 168 Sierra MatchKings in a number of .308's. I haven't tried them in the Hunter but will be shortly.

One thing to remember is the G2 Hunter is designed to be a hunting rifle, not a benchrest rifle.

My GII Hunter also prefers 168 grain pills.

I would strongly warn against using Superformance in any semi auto and I'm fairly certain there are warnings pertaining to this printed on the box.

Especially given that most AR-10's are at least slightly over gassed as produced.

As I said mine is a GII MOE... Thanks

It only matters that it is a 308, the specific model rarely matters, the AR platform factory 308 rifles are almost all over gassed.

16" barrel versus a 20" barrel won't make a difference?

OK, if I wanted to put an adjustable gas block on what suggestions do you have? I do think I'll try some different ammo first with the backup sight.


Anyone using a Nikon ProStaff 4-20X40 on theirs?

I use a Nikon Monarch 3 4-16x42

I own 6 nikons and they all rock.

I believe you're thinking of Hornady's Light Magnum ammo. Those had a warning not to use in semi-autos.

Double checked the Superformance box and no warning about autos. In fact it says, "Increase your favorite rifle's performance up to 200 fps WITHOUT extra chamber pressure, recoil, muzzle blast, temperature sensitivity, fouling or loss of accuracy. Superformance uses ultra progressive propellants that take your favorite SST and GMX bullets to levels of performance that are simply unattainable with conventional propellants."


Even with that printed assurance I can tell you that I got a very uncomfortable feeling when shooting it. But I agree, I would advise folks to not shoot this ammo in their AR 308 rifles, at least not without an adjustable gas block.

Edit---forgot to mention that the Superformance had very flattened primers also.

Personally I really like SLR's offerings, and their customer service/support has been top notch.

If they would release a GII 9 or 10" solo ultra lite, they would have that much more of my money. :) As it is, I'm holding out until I can get both products.

My son and I installed Oden Works .750 adjustable gas blocks.
I read the OP post that the rifle being talked about is a GII MOE.

I did not realize the MOE has a front sight post, the adjustable blocks we use are low profile blocks made to fit under the handguard if needed.
I haven't looked around for an adjustable block with a picatiny rail so one can mount a front sight. I know they are produced so I will look around to see what I can find.

The type of block we used would be great if the OP was going to go scope only, but that's kind of wrecking a GII MOE.

When I become rich and famous, I would like to purchase a GII MOE.

Good luck OP, please let us know how your rifle works out for you, Like I wrote, I would like to have one someday.

I have to agree with you and The Sierra GameKing 150 BTSP, Ive shot one hole groups with that bullet at 100yards with bolt guns...........147 fmj handloads do not group anywhere near as good as the Sierra was capable of..........the same bullet out of my 300 blackouts shots excellent as well........just a well engineered product............

Do you usually shoot better with other rifles, or could it be part shooter error?  

Also, what position were you shooting from?

Okay, so I went out with different ammo, Winchester super X 150g and the scope from my AR15 (I shoot 1" groups at 100y with it) and got a 4" group with a whole 20rnd mag. Much better. Going back to the ZQ1 it was all over the place... I think I found my issue. Also the mod to the PMAG fixed it not locking back. I think this is going to be a nice rifle but I need to figure out what it likes.

Very good to hear about success with the GII MOE.
Please keep me updated. I think why my GII didn't shoot 150s is that I did not complete the recommended barrel break in.
Just a couple days ago I was hitting 6X6 inch rocks at 780yds consistanly with 150grn accubonds after dialing the scope in for the yardage. I just held for wind.
It was a great day and let me tell you, it is really cool to be able to see the slugs travelling through the air with a spotting scope.