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what does the underside of the upper by the takedown pin look like?
I am wondering if the back of the upper is contacting right there and causing that. I can't see how the bolt carrier would cause that damage. |
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Personally, I'd shoot it and watch for more wear. That almost looks like staking. Send a link to this thread to Rainier and ask what's up? They have a partner forum here but they respond to email as well.
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Personally, I'd shoot it and watch for more wear. That almost looks like staking. Send a link to this thread to Rainier and ask what's up? They have a partner forum here but they respond to email as well. View Quote The Upper, Lower, BCG, and LPK is Aero. The barrel is Rainier. I know its not staking, I put the gun together from the ground up. I have done about 7-8 ar builds, this was my first .308 build but I just don't see how I could have done anything wrong. |
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What buffer tube and buffer?
Are you using an AR10 .308 buffer tube with a short .308 buffer? |
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When you pull the bolt back until it hits the back of the stock how much distance is there between the bolt lugs and bolt catch? Should be 0.25 - 0.5 inches at most. If it goes back further you need a longer stock tube.
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Buffer is too short or tube is too long. Regardless of gas feed the bolt carrier shouldn't be able to contact lower receiver where yours is at the back.
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When you pull the bolt back until it hits the back of the stock how much distance is there between the bolt lugs and bolt catch? Should be 0.25 - 0.5 inches at most. If it goes back further you need a longer stock tube. View Quote I think you mean the opposite of what you just said. |
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The buffer limits travel, not the spring. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Measure your spring it might be wrong size. The buffer limits travel, not the spring. ^ Thats what I was kinda thinking because when I tried two of the 3 springs below I saw no difference in the location of where the bolt stopped when I pushed it back into the receiver extension until it bottomed out. I have 3 different .308 carbine springs. -DPMS 11 5/16 (this is the only one that was used) -Slash/Heavy Buffers 11 1/4 (this is what I am going to try next with the new slash xh buffer) -KAK 11 7/16 (have not used yet, but this is the longest) |
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This is why it's not always a good idea to shop the bargain bin for 308 ARs. The buffer and spring is definitely not something to get for cheap. More so in guns than anything else, you get what you pay for.
Stick with the Slash setup, you'll be fine. |
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^ Thats what I was kinda thinking because when I tried two of the 3 springs below I saw no difference in the location of where the bolt stopped when I pushed it back into the receiver extension until it bottomed out. I have 3 different .308 carbine springs. -DPMS 11 5/16 (this is the only one that was used) -Slash/Heavy Buffers 11 1/4 (this is what I am going to try next with the new slash xh buffer) -KAK 11 7/16 (have not used yet, but this is the longest) View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Measure your spring it might be wrong size. The buffer limits travel, not the spring. ^ Thats what I was kinda thinking because when I tried two of the 3 springs below I saw no difference in the location of where the bolt stopped when I pushed it back into the receiver extension until it bottomed out. I have 3 different .308 carbine springs. -DPMS 11 5/16 (this is the only one that was used) -Slash/Heavy Buffers 11 1/4 (this is what I am going to try next with the new slash xh buffer) -KAK 11 7/16 (have not used yet, but this is the longest) Yeah stay with the slash. I was just making sure he didn't have an ar15 spring. |
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Definitely, live and learn.
I'm also hoping the extra nearly 3 oz of weight with the slash buffer will slow the carrier down some. Do you think I need to worry about the lower receiver damage? I don't see any cracks anywhere, I will definitely keep my eye on it the next range trip. |
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The basic mechanical engineering and fit of your parts combination was never worked out from the start, and the market is all over the place, as you have learned.
You bought what you thought were the correct parts for an AR10 carbine build, to include the shorter carbine buffer to work with your RE tube. In this case, the length of the guide rails of your bolt carrier are obviously slamming into your lower receiver, permanently damaging it. On top of that, you had to grind away the bottom of the BCM Gunfighter charge handle to clear the lower. There was also some really bad advice given in this thread above, where someone said to "just keep shooting it". Folks, if you aren't experienced with these issues, please refrain from giving out advice when someone is asking for help in trouble-shooting their build. This is a technical sub-forum. If you aren't sure about what is going on with the OP's rifle, it's best to sit back and observe, and not add confusion to the thread. |
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The basic mechanical engineering and fit of your parts combination was never worked out from the start, and the market is all over the place, as you have learned. You bought what you thought were the correct parts for an AR10 carbine build, to include the shorter carbine buffer to work with your RE tube. In this case, the length of the guide rails of your bolt carrier are obviously slamming into your lower receiver, permanently damaging it. On top of that, you had to grind away the bottom of the BCM Gunfighter charge handle to clear the lower. View Quote Yea, I knew that going into this build with the BCM that I would potentially get one that needed to be modified. As to the permanent damage to the receiver (basically the threads for the extension tube), is it a show stopper? I do not see any cracks, but should I get a new lower? |
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Yea, I knew that going into this build with the BCM that I would potentially get one that needed to be modified. As to the permanent damage to the receiver (basically the threads for the extension tube), is it a show stopper? I do not see any cracks, but should I get a new lower? View Quote You should be fine |
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I would like to thank everyone for the help and advice. I will get to the range soon with the new Slash XH buffer and spring and test.
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Yea, I knew that going into this build with the BCM that I would potentially get one that needed to be modified. As to the permanent damage to the receiver (basically the threads for the extension tube), is it a show stopper? I do not see any cracks, but should I get a new lower? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The basic mechanical engineering and fit of your parts combination was never worked out from the start, and the market is all over the place, as you have learned. You bought what you thought were the correct parts for an AR10 carbine build, to include the shorter carbine buffer to work with your RE tube. In this case, the length of the guide rails of your bolt carrier are obviously slamming into your lower receiver, permanently damaging it. On top of that, you had to grind away the bottom of the BCM Gunfighter charge handle to clear the lower. Yea, I knew that going into this build with the BCM that I would potentially get one that needed to be modified. As to the permanent damage to the receiver (basically the threads for the extension tube), is it a show stopper? I do not see any cracks, but should I get a new lower? Functionally, there seems to be nothing wrong at this point, as long as the galling doesn't affect reciprocating parts once the correct collection of components has been found. The biggest area of concern is resale value really. |
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The slop is inherent in pretty much all forged receivers. Even most billet receivers have slop. You just don't notice because most billet receivers have a tensioning screw.
Without the tension screw, my matched MaTen set had as much slop as my Armalite AR10 did, if not more. But the screw took it all away. Don't worry about the slop, it doesn't effect anything except make your gun slightly more reliable since it has room to push crud out if the way. |
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I think I probably would have been gtg if I had started with the slash buffer. I think the Aero BCG,upper, and lower are of good quality except for the small amount of play between upper and lower that I can fix with an o-ring or some thick electrical tape. I definitely know the Rainier match barrel is high quality. 100yds with M80 ball from bipod/sand bag. I am more than happy. http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a439/Jinxy81/2B17365B-7552-4B86-BCBF-0C1F0B202736_zpsnbthehgr.jpg View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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This is why it's not always a good idea to shop the bargain bin for 308 ARs. The buffer and spring is definitely not something to get for cheap. More so in guns than anything else, you get what you pay for. Stick with the Slash setup, you'll be fine. I think I probably would have been gtg if I had started with the slash buffer. I think the Aero BCG,upper, and lower are of good quality except for the small amount of play between upper and lower that I can fix with an o-ring or some thick electrical tape. I definitely know the Rainier match barrel is high quality. 100yds with M80 ball from bipod/sand bag. I am more than happy. http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a439/Jinxy81/2B17365B-7552-4B86-BCBF-0C1F0B202736_zpsnbthehgr.jpg This confirms my barrel choice for my 308 build. What's your barrel length? |
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This confirms my barrel choice for my 308 build. What's your barrel length? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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This is why it's not always a good idea to shop the bargain bin for 308 ARs. The buffer and spring is definitely not something to get for cheap. More so in guns than anything else, you get what you pay for. Stick with the Slash setup, you'll be fine. I think I probably would have been gtg if I had started with the slash buffer. I think the Aero BCG,upper, and lower are of good quality except for the small amount of play between upper and lower that I can fix with an o-ring or some thick electrical tape. I definitely know the Rainier match barrel is high quality. 100yds with M80 ball from bipod/sand bag. I am more than happy. http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a439/Jinxy81/2B17365B-7552-4B86-BCBF-0C1F0B202736_zpsnbthehgr.jpg This confirms my barrel choice for my 308 build. What's your barrel length? Its a Rainier Arms Match 18", also have a Geissele SSA-E trigger. Full details under pic. -Aero Upper -Aero BCG -BCM Gunfighter Mod 3 (Large Latch) -Rainier Arms Match 18" Barrel 7.62 NATO & .308 WIN -SLR Rifle Works Adjustable Gas Block and SLR mid length gas tube -SLR Rifle Works 15" Solo Lite Key Mod rail -Silencer Co SpecWar Brake -Silencer Co Specwar 7.62 suppressor -Noveske Keymod Bipod adapter -Primary Arms 4-14X44 FFP ACSS HUD DMR .308 -Aero Ultralight SPR Mount -Harris Bipod -B5 Sopmod enhanced Stock -Slash XH Buffer and spring -Mil spec extension tube, end plate, castle nut -Geissele SSA-E trigger -Aero LPK -DS Arms Ambi Safety -MOE + Grip -Aero Lower receiver |
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Its a Rainier Arms Match 18", also have a Geissele SSA-E trigger. Full details under pic. http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a439/Jinxy81/4772A2C1-2C99-4612-83E6-F46DEA423698_zpsr4idztmu.jpg -Aero Upper -Aero BCG -BCM Gunfighter Mod 3 (Large Latch) -Rainier Arms Match 18" Barrel 7.62 NATO & .308 WIN -SLR Rifle Works Adjustable Gas Block and SLR mid length gas tube -SLR Rifle Works 15" Solo Lite Key Mod rail -Silencer Co SpecWar Brake -Silencer Co Specwar 7.62 suppressor -Noveske Keymod Bipod adapter -Primary Arms 4-14X44 FFP ACSS HUD DMR .308 -Aero Ultralight SPR Mount -Harris Bipod -B5 Sopmod enhanced Stock -Slash XH Buffer and spring -Mil spec extension tube, end plate, castle nut -Geissele SSA-E trigger -Aero LPK -DS Arms Ambi Safety -MOE + Grip -Aero Lower receiver View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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This is why it's not always a good idea to shop the bargain bin for 308 ARs. The buffer and spring is definitely not something to get for cheap. More so in guns than anything else, you get what you pay for. Stick with the Slash setup, you'll be fine. I think I probably would have been gtg if I had started with the slash buffer. I think the Aero BCG,upper, and lower are of good quality except for the small amount of play between upper and lower that I can fix with an o-ring or some thick electrical tape. I definitely know the Rainier match barrel is high quality. 100yds with M80 ball from bipod/sand bag. I am more than happy. http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a439/Jinxy81/2B17365B-7552-4B86-BCBF-0C1F0B202736_zpsnbthehgr.jpg This confirms my barrel choice for my 308 build. What's your barrel length? Its a Rainier Arms Match 18", also have a Geissele SSA-E trigger. Full details under pic. http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a439/Jinxy81/4772A2C1-2C99-4612-83E6-F46DEA423698_zpsr4idztmu.jpg -Aero Upper -Aero BCG -BCM Gunfighter Mod 3 (Large Latch) -Rainier Arms Match 18" Barrel 7.62 NATO & .308 WIN -SLR Rifle Works Adjustable Gas Block and SLR mid length gas tube -SLR Rifle Works 15" Solo Lite Key Mod rail -Silencer Co SpecWar Brake -Silencer Co Specwar 7.62 suppressor -Noveske Keymod Bipod adapter -Primary Arms 4-14X44 FFP ACSS HUD DMR .308 -Aero Ultralight SPR Mount -Harris Bipod -B5 Sopmod enhanced Stock -Slash XH Buffer and spring -Mil spec extension tube, end plate, castle nut -Geissele SSA-E trigger -Aero LPK -DS Arms Ambi Safety -MOE + Grip -Aero Lower receiver Awesome sweet build. Mine will be similar but with 16" barrel. |
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Good thread - thanks for posting !! I just checked my rig and I too have a small nick on the extension threads just like what happened to yours though not as bad. I am using a standard AR15 carbine buffer tube with 308 spring and Guntec 308 buffer. It measures about 2.5".
On the Slash buffer is it extra 0.07" length or the extra mass that make the difference and stopped the bolt to receiver contact ? I definitely need to address this - but seems odd that only a $100 buffer will work in this setup... |
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Good thread - thanks for posting !! I just checked my rig and I too have a small nick on the extension threads just like what happened to yours though not as bad. I am using a standard AR15 carbine buffer tube with 308 spring and Guntec 308 buffer. It measures about 2.5". On the Slash buffer is it extra 0.07" length or the extra mass that make the difference and stopped the bolt to receiver contact ? I definitely need to address this - but seems odd that only a $100 buffer will work in this setup... View Quote I have to think its the extra length. I was using the .308 buffer/tube combo from Brownells on 2 of my rifles and was having the same issue. At first I thought it was limited to my Aero M5, but checked my Tacitical Machining 80% .308 build and it's also showing signs of BCG/receiver contact. I agree that its weird most .308 carbine buffers appear to be too short. How is Slash the only one to figure this out so far? |
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UPDATE: Got the rifle out today with the new slash buffer and spring. OMG!!! Huge difference in felt recoil. Also confirmed the carrier is not making contact with the rear of the receiver. The SLR gas block is opened to 3 audible clicks from the closed position. Cycling perfect. Feels like a different rifle. LOVE IT!! Don't skimp on the buffer if your building a .308 ar, go ahead and get a Slash/Heavy! I will try to get a video of a friend of mine shooting it at 205 yards at a steel 13.25" tall x 7.5" wide target. He is using some 1968 M80 ball!! http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a439/Jinxy81/07B9EF3D-35CD-400C-AAFA-96BF3DC60D9D_zpsakfrzgc0.jpg http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a439/Jinxy81/400B316B-DAB2-47E1-932A-3DE27DCB18BB_zpsmvkspbqv.jpg View Quote Nice build... I was wondering how you like the glass & mount? I was thinking of getting the very same set-up and wanted to know how good they are. Thanks D. |
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I have the same marks on my Aero Precision set. I have had the Slah heavy buffer and spring installed since the beginning.
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I took a closer look at mine today and noticed that I could get another turn on the extension - it was one full turn from being all the way in to the retainer pin. I think this should give me the little bit of bolt-receiver clearance I need. I also filed a slight smooth indentation where the bolt had touched earlier. I saw on a different thread someone mention that the PSA lowers are machined with a notch there ;-) When I push the bolt as far in against the buffer and spring as I can push it, there is good clearance. I put some paint on the touch spots - will check it after the next firing at the range.
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Good thread - thanks for posting !! I just checked my rig and I too have a small nick on the extension threads just like what happened to yours though not as bad. I am using a standard AR15 carbine buffer tube with 308 spring and Guntec 308 buffer. It measures about 2.5". On the Slash buffer is it extra 0.07" length or the extra mass that make the difference and stopped the bolt to receiver contact ? I definitely need to address this - but seems odd that only a $100 buffer will work in this setup... View Quote It definitely resolved the issue for me. Totally worth the money IMO, I could tell a difference in recoil. |
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Nice build... I was wondering how you like the glass & mount? I was thinking of getting the very same set-up and wanted to know how good they are. Thanks D. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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UPDATE: Got the rifle out today with the new slash buffer and spring. OMG!!! Huge difference in felt recoil. Also confirmed the carrier is not making contact with the rear of the receiver. The SLR gas block is opened to 3 audible clicks from the closed position. Cycling perfect. Feels like a different rifle. LOVE IT!! Don't skimp on the buffer if your building a .308 ar, go ahead and get a Slash/Heavy! I will try to get a video of a friend of mine shooting it at 205 yards at a steel 13.25" tall x 7.5" wide target. He is using some 1968 M80 ball!! http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a439/Jinxy81/07B9EF3D-35CD-400C-AAFA-96BF3DC60D9D_zpsakfrzgc0.jpg http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a439/Jinxy81/400B316B-DAB2-47E1-932A-3DE27DCB18BB_zpsmvkspbqv.jpg Nice build... I was wondering how you like the glass & mount? I was thinking of getting the very same set-up and wanted to know how good they are. Thanks D. I love the mount. Very light and solid. I have not lost zero yet and I have around 400 rounds through the gun. I will have a hard time spending more money for a scope after using this Primary Arms scope. The glass is very clear and the knobs and adjustments feel very positive. Hoping to find a place to stretch it out soon so I can use the BDC. |
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Very interesting thread. I never considered this could be a problem. Crikey.
I just checked my MEGA Maten lower which is waiting around for my BHW barrel to arrive. I have a DPMS 308 carbine buffer which measured at exactly 2.500 inches. I took the spring out, dropped the buffer all the way back and stuck my RCA BCG in as far as it would go. It went in pretty far, I would say as much as the OP's picture shows with the Radical Arms BCG. However, the "pocket" (for lack of a better word) was deep enough that I couldn't see any chance of the BCG striking anything. Certainly no threads anywhere near by. So I guess maybe it varies depending on the style of the lower. ETA: I have no plans to get a heavy buffer, my understanding is that if I adjust the gas properly (Syrac Gen II) then there should be no need. Discussion about that is here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_121/669620_.html&page=1 if anyone wants to chime in. -Stooxie |
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