TFB Article

The 338 fed just might be what turns me onto the G2.

I was hoping for the 6.5CM, but maybe it's coming soon.

I've actually been considering a .308 version of this just so I can get cheap ammo and blast away without worrying about my 6.5 brass and powder.

260

Would FO on it.

I wonder if TFB was confused as to which version was getting what calibers.

.260 Remington in a 16" with a MLGS would be a mistake in my opinion.  Slow burning powders plus MLGS with 41.0gr charge weight behind a 129gr or 140gr will not be fun to buffer and spring.

It would be great in the 20" RLGS, but they need a factory gas gun load for it.

It would be well-received in the 24" bull GII if they use a mag-fed reamer design to shoot their gas gun load, but then you run into the problem of factory ammo already on market blowing primers and pulling bullets, dumping powder.

.338 Federal would be great, but I'm not sure how often that cartridge gets produced.

7mm-08 would be good in a 20" RLGS GII as well.  Look at the ballistics for the 120gr, 139gr, 154gr, and 162gr from the 7mm-08.  120gr is really fast, 139gr covers medium heavy game with the 139gr GMX, and 154gr Interbond covers elk.  BC on that bad boy is .525 G1.

With gassers, you really need to support them with gas gun specific ammo in cases where you depart from the 5.56 NATO and .223 Remington.  Keep in mind that the .223 Remington is solely in existence because of the AR15, as it is 5.56x45 adopted for civilian use.  The primary centerfire .224 cartridge that existed before was the .222 Remington, which the AR15 was engineered around.

LRRPF52
What's your opinion of the performance of a .243 thru a 16" barrel?
The smaller lighter hunter is exactly what  i've been thinking of,

with a diff gas block and grip and trigger, the short hunter would be close to ideal for me. I am slowly warming to the gen2. maybe look into it.....

I'm not sure how well the Mid Length Gas System will do with that case capacity and medium-slow and slow burning powders like H4895, H4350, RL-17, IMR 4831, and that ballpark canister powder used by the industry for factory loads.  ~40.0gr of that type of powder behind an 85gr 6mm bullet with a lot of bearing surface is going to generate high port pressures for a MLGS.

With a max load behind an 85gr 6mm in .243 Winchester, you're looking at around 2800fps velocity, which is plenty for medium game with the right bullet.

It makes more sense for them to introduce these other calibers in the 20" Hunter GII, not a 16" MLGS.  The 20" Hunter is one of the best balanced rifles I have ever held.  It's very small and maneuverable.

I personally don't think there is much appeal to the .243 Winchester model, other than those who like .243 Winchester and don't want to leave that cartridge.  Run the numbers of even the premium 90gr Nosler E-Tip monolithic solid bullet against an AR15 in 6.5 Grendel with the 123gr, and the only area where the .243 has a slight advantage is trajectory, equating to 2" less at 300yds, but the 6.5 still has less wind drift, and more energy from muzzle onwards.

This is why I think that where the GII is going to shine is with different calibers based off the .308 case, but with more efficient bullets, and bullets that you simply can't reach certain speeds with from the AR15.

* .260 Remington will make a great all-round hunter, but will need specific ammunition for the gas system once you get into 129gr and higher shank lengths w/slow burning powders.  Freedom Group/Remington/Barnes would do really well if they developed and marketed a specific line of factory ammunition for the other calibers that need it in the GII, starting with a few .260 Remington self-loading options optimized for the AR10 gas system.  You can achieve impressive performance, but the burn curve has to be engineered with a RLGS in mind, otherwise you have violent, early unlocking, abusive impact of the buffer in the extension tube, torn rims, broken extractors, and so forth.



* 7mm-08 will be similar, with 139-162gr projectiles being more popular. Same gas system considerations will make it mostly a hand-loader's affair like the .260 Rem.  120gr factory loads might work fine right now, like Federal Fusion, but the 139gr and higher stuff is going to be a challenge.



* .338 Federal will be interesting, since it delivers over 3200 ft-lbs of muzzle energy, and is meant to bust brush and impact with a lot of whack at closer ranges.  Recoil is like a .30-06, so with the self-loading action of the AR10, it will reduce perceived recoil by distributing it over a longer time.  There are many other recoil mitigation devices that can be used on the AR to dampen this down, especially since this is a lightweight rifle.  I think the big bores are where the GII is really going to get people's attention, and attract a lot of more traditionalists who weren't even near the fence on AR's.



Some articles on the .338 Federal:  Chuck Hawks .338 Federal

Hunting with the DPMS LR-338L

Ammoseek .338 Federal Ammo

For hand loaders, it's a simple neck-up with the RCBS full length sizing die, which has a very tapered expander, charge it up with powders that are popular for .223 and .308, seat any of the great 180-220gr .338 hunting bullets, and start working up some loads.  Many shooters have achieved impressive accuracy with this cartridge from AR10's, as well as bolt guns.

The problem before was that the LR-338L was on the heavy side, even with the diet DPMS Panther Arms put on it, with a skeletonized A2 stock, carbon fiber handguard, and token "flutes" on the barrel.  The GII will shave all kinds of weight off, and will be lighter than any of the other caliber GII's because of bore space.

If it's only pushing an 85gr bullet to only 2800 - I'll take a 6.8 or similar. A lightweight 6.5cm is much more appealing to me.

Eta: the 338 is probably the most interesting to me.

They'll screw up the .243 with too slow a twist anyway.

what would you consider a s the proper twist for 100 gr bullets from a .243



My go to bullet is a 100gr PSP rem core-lok, would using 100gr make the problems you describe even worse?
I would be satisfied with 2800 fps with the 100gr psp,  If I get the compact hunter it would be a dedicated night gun for hogs. Shots are usually under 80 yds.
I'm currently using the 20" DPMS Hunter in .243 and really like the results.  I'm a .243 fan since 1978 so if the compact hunter will cycle the round
I'm gonna stick with it.

1/9" would probably work.  I want 1/8" so I can shoot 115gr VLDs though.

20" RLGS is the way to go, no shorter, if you look at the applied physics behind the gas system and those powders. A 20" GII sounds like what you are looking for in .243 Win.  Of course, a 20" .260 Rem. would push a 123gr to 2850fps easily, with much more energy on target, more impact speed, less wind drift, and not much recoil at all. Bullet selection, especially for hunting, goes to the .264/6.5mm, including the ability to take big game down to varmints.

Why all the concern about the G2 Compact Hunter having a MLGS with certain cartridges that are based off the same original .308 case???

G2 rifles chambered in .308 don't seem to have any problems with a Mid Length Gas System (G2 Recon & G2 SASS for example).  Or do they?

Does the .308 cartridge have some magical property that allows it to function with any length gas system (G2 AP4 & G2 MOE have Carbine Length GS / G2 Hunter & G2 Bull use Rifle Length GS)
while the other calibers (.243, .260, 7-08. .338) are problematic unless they use only one specific length gas system?

Can't any length system be made to run properly by changing the gas port size (and/or buffer weight & spring)?
And I hope that DMPS takes these things into account during the design process for each (model / barrel length / gas-system / caliber) that they build?

Thanx, Dave.

Will be interesting how the 243 does. I had the Gen I DPMS 243 w/20 inch barrel. Loved it. Accuate. Heavey pig though so I sold it. I contacted DPMS last year to see if I could custom order a 243 in a smaller barrel. Was told it cannot be done. So am curious what the did different to do a 243 with a 16 inch barrel. The 243 is an awesome round. Shot great with Hornady 95 grain SST's. Will have to wait for some user range reports to see how it shoots.

On the .243 ballistics, I don't chronograph the .243 loads I've done.  However, my load manual indicates that the starting charge of Varget behind an 85g spitzer boat tail produces 3023 fps, and a hot load at 3268 fps.  Just throwing that out there, but I know variables occur with barrel length and other factors.  I just bought an Armalite AR-10 in .243 with 20" barrel and 1:10 twist...along with a .308 in the same version except barrel twist.  I just got to shoot and sight-in the .308 today...thoroughly impressed.  I haven't gotten to shoot this .243 yet.  I'm one of those who likes the .243 cartridge...along with the .308.  I have bolt rifles in those two calibers and reload for both.

Edit:  One of the Armalite tech notes, #23, it mentions the concept of the .308, appropriate bullet weight, and the AR design.  It then covers the particulars of the .243, recommending certain bullet weights to barrel twist.  Funny thing...it's not the 1:10 that my Armalite .243 has.  It indicates Armalite .243's are 1:12.  The tech note is 1998.  They've obviously changed some things since then as my rifle indicates to have been manufactured this year.

Hey, DPMS I also want to see a 7mm08 version.

Interesting. I've been looking for info on these here (this cal) as I'm thinking of building one.

You fellas realize this is an old article and DPMS has NOT offered any other cartridges than the 7.62/.308??

New models show up on the 2015 DPMS Spring rebate flyer, willing to bet they will come out after SHOT show.

http://www.dpmsinc.com/DPMS-Promotions_ep_211-1.html

http://www.dpmsinc.com/assets/images/promo/2015Spring_DPMSRebate_FNL.pdf

They already have SKU's for them, and have introduced one new carbine format with the GII Compact Hunter for a total of 7 basic rifle models.  The Hunter and Compact Hunter have 4 calibers listed each:

20"
RFLR-G2308L
RFLR-G2243L
RFLR-G2260L
RFLR-G2338L

18"
RFLR-G2C308L
RFLR-G2C243L
RFLR-G2C260L
RFLR-G2C338L

I just ordered a G2 hunter, wouldn't mind a 338 upper with a 20" barrel.

Would love to have one in .358 WIN.

Every article I've seen (and the DPMS website) lists the weight as basically identical the 20" G2 Hunter (7.75 lbs Vs 7.76 lbs)

Whats the deal?  
Is the collapsible stock that much heavier than the MOE stock on the 20" gun?

JW

That .338 Federal is going to be a game-changer I think.  Talk about a gun under 8lbs that takes the recoil similar to a .30-06, and makes it more manageable, but you're delivering a lot of energy on target.  Easy to load for with readily-available .308 brass, necks up with sizing die.

It will sell really well for the people that like .338 or larger bore.






The area where .338 Federal exceeds .358 Winchester is boat tail bullet design.  You have about the same mv, but .338 Fed will retain its energy better, so if you want a brush gun and a rifle that can reach out and anchor medium to large game, the .338 Federal will do both.

I've been looking at all these big bore cartridges now for a while, gauging what to anticipate with the market and how things will progress as the Stoner design continues to expand its share of the hunting world.  It already has been exploding in the micro-action world, starting with becoming one of the go-to P-dog slaying machines, then into the medium game arena, where countless customers have ditched their .270's and .30-06's after seeing what something like a 6.5 Grendel does for them on deer, pigs, caribou, elk, bison, and moose.

Those who have already been hunting with the .308 Winchester have had a difficult time transitioning over to the AR10's in many cases, because the receivers brought a substantial amount of bulk, weight, and increases overall length to the Length of Pull, but those issues are gone now with the G2.

Get ready to see gun magazines on the shelves, and numerous online articles talking about "DPMS Heavy-Hitter:  .338 Federal G2 Semi-Auto".

Yes, some of the telescoping stocks on the market are quite a bit heavier than the Magpul MOE rifle stock.  This also helps balance out the guns in many cases, although that carbine with a carbon fiber fore end is much lighter than most people think.  That MOE rifle stock is listed on Magpul's website as being 14.6oz. alone which is pretty heavy actually.  An A2 stock is only 12.4oz on my scale.

So I just got back from SHOT Show, and out my hands on the new Compact Hunter models from the G2 line, and checked out the G2 Remington rifles.

The 16" MLGS Compact Hunter was 6.5lbs, and it feels amazingly lightweight.  The fit of the SOPMOD stock to the extension tube was very tight as well, with absolutely no rattling.

I spoke with Adam Ballard for a long time about the history of the rifle, which seems to be his brainchild, in conjunction with the engineers within DPMS, not Remington.  The Remington reps said it was entirely a DPMS initiated and driven program.

The Compact Hunter is stunningly lightweight and well balanced, even with the SOPMOD stock.

Before you read my criticism, I just bought an G2 hunter with 20" barrel.  I like this new generation of ar10 that DPMS has put out.

I don't understand the gun industry's need for carbine barrels on purported hunting rifles.
A 16" 243 looses a lot of velocity over a 20 or 22" barrel, I'm sure the 338 federal has the same problem.  

I really want a 338 federal upper, but I want a 20 inch barrel so I can maximize performance at longer ranges, I do take 300 yard shots on deer and will do the same when I eventually hunt other game.

Manufacturers make them because the demand exists, people want them.

I want a 22" .243 with a 1/8" twist medium contour.  I don't think they'll make it though.