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Posted: 6/29/2014 5:23:12 AM EDT
[#1]
Not sure, I believe 3 though. However, they also shoot their targets at 47yards and don't put that info on the card. Thats why everyone assumes that cooper rifles are all dime sized rifles.
My .308 AR targets. Both 5 shots: 100 yards  DSC_7639 by wareagle700, on Flickr
400 yards  DSC_8965 by wareagle700, on Flickr
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Posted: 6/29/2014 5:50:00 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do they use a 3-shot or 5-shot group? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What other companies send out test targets with their rifles? Just curious because I have or have had rifles from LaRue, KAC, Daniel Defense, LWRC, Noveske, LMT, Bravo Company, NEMO Arms and PWS. I know there are a lot more manufacturers out there, but I did not see a test target from any of them, only ones I ever saw were from LaRue and KAC. Cooper. Do they use a 3-shot or 5-shot group? 3-shot - looking through a 36 power scope in steel rings, mounted on a bolt-action rifle, shooting handloads off a bench using bags. ETA - mathecb says they shoot at 47 yards ... Montana is a big ol' state, I don't know why they'd shoot at a distance of 47 yards. [shrug] ETA2 - It's cold up there and that's likely inside a 150' long building, with a backstop and bench taking the 3 yards off. 
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Posted: 6/29/2014 6:12:22 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
3-shot - looking through a 36 power scope in steel rings, mounted on a bolt-action rifle, shooting handloads off a bench using bags. ETA - mathecb says they shoot at 47 yards ... Montana is a big ol' state, I don't know why they'd shoot at a distance of 47 yards. [shrug] ETA2 - It's cold up there and that's likely inside a 150' long building, with a backstop and bench taking the 3 yards off. http://cdn.gunsamerica.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/colt-cooper-rifle-group.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What other companies send out test targets with their rifles? Just curious because I have or have had rifles from LaRue, KAC, Daniel Defense, LWRC, Noveske, LMT, Bravo Company, NEMO Arms and PWS. I know there are a lot more manufacturers out there, but I did not see a test target from any of them, only ones I ever saw were from LaRue and KAC. Cooper. Do they use a 3-shot or 5-shot group? 3-shot - looking through a 36 power scope in steel rings, mounted on a bolt-action rifle, shooting handloads off a bench using bags. ETA - mathecb says they shoot at 47 yards ... Montana is a big ol' state, I don't know why they'd shoot at a distance of 47 yards. [shrug] ETA2 - It's cold up there and that's likely inside a 150' long building, with a backstop and bench taking the 3 yards off. http://cdn.gunsamerica.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/colt-cooper-rifle-group.jpg I have heard everything from 42 yards to 50 yards. I can't find it, but somewhere I read 47 seemed to be claimed the most. |
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Posted: 6/29/2014 7:05:28 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have heard everything from 42 yards to 50 yards. I can't find it, but somewhere I read 47 seemed to be claimed the most. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What other companies send out test targets with their rifles? Just curious because I have or have had rifles from LaRue, KAC, Daniel Defense, LWRC, Noveske, LMT, Bravo Company, NEMO Arms and PWS. I know there are a lot more manufacturers out there, but I did not see a test target from any of them, only ones I ever saw were from LaRue and KAC. Cooper. Do they use a 3-shot or 5-shot group? 3-shot - looking through a 36 power scope in steel rings, mounted on a bolt-action rifle, shooting handloads off a bench using bags. ETA - mathecb says they shoot at 47 yards ... Montana is a big ol' state, I don't know why they'd shoot at a distance of 47 yards. [shrug] ETA2 - It's cold up there and that's likely inside a 150' long building, with a backstop and bench taking the 3 yards off. http://cdn.gunsamerica.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/colt-cooper-rifle-group.jpg I have heard everything from 42 yards to 50 yards. I can't find it, but somewhere I read 47 seemed to be claimed the most. " Basement Range " ETA - There's a nugget or two in that thread. |
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Posted: 6/29/2014 9:10:41 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
3-shot - looking through a 36 power scope in steel rings, mounted on a bolt-action rifle, shooting handloads off a bench using bags. ETA - mathecb says they shoot at 47 yards ... Montana is a big ol' state, I don't know why they'd shoot at a distance of 47 yards. [shrug] ETA2 - It's cold up there and that's likely inside a 150' long building, with a backstop and bench taking the 3 yards off. http://cdn.gunsamerica.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/colt-cooper-rifle-group.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What other companies send out test targets with their rifles? Just curious because I have or have had rifles from LaRue, KAC, Daniel Defense, LWRC, Noveske, LMT, Bravo Company, NEMO Arms and PWS. I know there are a lot more manufacturers out there, but I did not see a test target from any of them, only ones I ever saw were from LaRue and KAC. Cooper. Do they use a 3-shot or 5-shot group? 3-shot - looking through a 36 power scope in steel rings, mounted on a bolt-action rifle, shooting handloads off a bench using bags. ETA - mathecb says they shoot at 47 yards ... Montana is a big ol' state, I don't know why they'd shoot at a distance of 47 yards. [shrug] ETA2 - It's cold up there and that's likely inside a 150' long building, with a backstop and bench taking the 3 yards off. http://cdn.gunsamerica.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/colt-cooper-rifle-group.jpg Why does the colt logo appear on the cooper target? Are they owned by colt? The calipers dont seem perefectly center to center there but even if that was .27" that would still be .54" @ 100. Thats not 1/2 moa as they claim it should be. |
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Posted: 6/29/2014 9:15:31 AM EDT
[#6]
^^^
Hmmm, I too wondered about that Colt being on there. |
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Posted: 6/29/2014 9:31:15 AM EDT
[#7]
Cooper makes some (if not all) of the Colt bolt action rifles you see floating around.
IIRC, the Colt 2012 was one of them. |
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Posted: 6/30/2014 2:04:51 PM EDT
[#8]
I have an LMT and a LT TAR, the TAR is my favorite gun. I get good accuracy out of both but the TAR is much lighter and more accurate. I am currently getting a 22" 6.5 creedmoor barrel from GA Precision to slap in the MWS. The PredaTAR is the absolute best bang for your buck , I've never had someone pick it up and shoot it and not want to buy one. The LT will hold its value much better. You notice there isn't anyone saying "you can pick a used one up for this" like the LMT, if you don't like it sell it. I would go
Larue GAP 10 JP In that order Just my $.02 |
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Posted: 6/30/2014 2:15:40 PM EDT
[#9]
KAC/LMT/Larue are all good choices. I went with the KAC.
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Posted: 6/30/2014 5:18:55 PM EDT
[#10]
There is a 16" 7.62 TAR on GB for $2910 and 45 for shipping. Test group is .553, for your SA
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Posted: 7/1/2014 3:39:08 AM EDT
[#11]
PredatAR 7.62 since you want light weight. PredatOBR if you want QD takedown, and the ability to put it in a backpack.
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Posted: 7/1/2014 4:15:25 AM EDT
[#12]
Or you could make a bastard child, like I did. tOBR 762 upper on ECC lower. Really pisses off the LT fanboys.
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Posted: 7/1/2014 7:23:39 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or you could make a bastard child, like I did. tOBR 762 upper on ECC lower. Really pisses off the LT fanboys. <a href="http://s1245.photobucket.com/user/TexasOilOutlaw/media/28837BE3-83FD-4729-8069-C2779B4679FB.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/TexasOilOutlaw/28837BE3-83FD-4729-8069-C2779B4679FB.jpg</a> Well, actually, it makes LT fanboys chuckle. 
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Posted: 7/1/2014 7:37:36 AM EDT
[#14]
LOL. Hey, I own a few of your rifles, Mark. I love em. I love that they're made in TX, by Texans. I just like stirring the pot. Even my dog loves him some LT. He got one of the Rick Perry rifles, actually. My dog (Baron) gets all the cool toys. He usually shares in the fun, but not always. Can you see how much he's gloating in the picture below?
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Posted: 7/1/2014 8:00:46 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Or you could make a bastard child, like I did. tOBR 762 upper on ECC lower. Really pisses off the LT fanboys. http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg581/TexasOilOutlaw/28837BE3-83FD-4729-8069-C2779B4679FB.jpg Hey Dirty, you posted this bastard child pic on the on the Larue page months ago....you said you were going to shoot the Larue upper on the KAC lower and compare it to shooting the complete KAC rifle side by side. Did you ever get around to that? Or were the results to embarrassing to post?     ETA: got it backwards |
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Posted: 7/1/2014 8:08:07 AM EDT
[#16]
I haven't had any time to do any real side by side comparison with them swapped. My work schedule is crazy these days, and there doesn't seem to be a lull in sight.
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Posted: 7/1/2014 8:14:33 AM EDT
[#17]
Yep, exceeding our expectations ... Independence Day
ETA - IIRC, it was poison123 that cracked "real men make their own barrels" ... note to self to send ol' Poison a gift basket. 
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Posted: 7/1/2014 8:54:05 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep, exceeding our expectations ... Independence Day
ETA - IIRC, it was poison123 that cracked "real men make their own barrels" ... note to self to send ol' Poison a gift basket.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/AUSTINWFT/LT%20Post/photo_zps4e01b0c3.jpg Seeing those groups causes my unit to stand at attention. Can't wait for my 18/13.2 Stealth and 18" OBR. |
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Posted: 7/1/2014 7:05:24 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seeing those groups causes my unit to stand at attention. Can't wait for my 18/13.2 Stealth and 18" OBR. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yep, exceeding our expectations ... Independence Day ETA - IIRC, it was poison123 that cracked "real men make their own barrels" ... note to self to send ol' Poison a gift basket. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/AUSTINWFT/LT%20Post/photo_zps4e01b0c3.jpg Seeing those groups causes my unit to stand at attention. Can't wait for my 18/13.2 Stealth and 18" OBR.   ETA forgot picture |
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Posted: 7/2/2014 5:03:30 AM EDT
[#20]
A penny is supposed to be 3/4" diameter.
Anything under 1.75" for ten rounds fired with any speed at all is great for military match ammo. You, your rifle, and your handload must be pretty well maxed out for performance. |
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Posted: 7/2/2014 6:31:13 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A penny is supposed to be 3/4" diameter. Anything under 1.75" for ten rounds fired with any speed at all is great for military match ammo. You, your rifle, and your handload must be pretty well maxed out for performance. Yes a penny is .750, that's the reason I have it there to show the validity of the measurement. The extreme outside to outside measurement of the group is 1.018 the bullet diameter of .308 is then subtracted for .710. A 3/4" penny will not cover a 3/4" group. Yes the rifle is a shooter and the handload is a good one, that said this rifle will shoot almost any handload I feed it at a similar accuracy level. |
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Posted: 7/2/2014 9:36:06 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes a penny is .750, that's the reason I have it there to show the validity of the measurement. The extreme outside to outside measurement of the group is 1.018 the bullet diameter of .308 is then subtracted for .710. A 3/4" penny will not cover a 3/4" group. Yes the rifle is a shooter and the handload is a good one, that said this rifle will shoot almost any handload I feed it at a similar accuracy level.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A penny is supposed to be 3/4" diameter. Anything under 1.75" for ten rounds fired with any speed at all is great for military match ammo. You, your rifle, and your handload must be pretty well maxed out for performance. Yes the rifle is a shooter and the handload is a good one, that said this rifle will shoot almost any handload I feed it at a similar accuracy level.
Safetyoff, Mods just got around to locking that UHFO thread that I featured your " repeatability test " .... 2110 posts * * * 26963 views Thanks for the unsolicited legwork you put into that test. ML |
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Posted: 7/2/2014 5:57:21 PM EDT
[#23]
I think the reason people measure groups center to center is that bullets don't put a mark on paper that is the diameter of the bullet. So it's easier to get an accurate measurement using the estimated visual center of holes because their OD's are not to size. I guess an alternate method is measuring the "smudge line diameter" of a round as a constant and going edge to edge and deleting that diameter.
There are a lot of idiocyncracies to group measurement. Some people will show you a five round group and it is measured without accounting for the worst round. It's part of what makes accuracy testing slightly abstract. I've seen guys shoot groups on the range (mostly with lighter barreled rifles), allowing several minutes between rounds. If you do that of course the barrel can be the same temperature for every round fired so barrel stress isn't a component or is very much less a component of the result. When I shoot a group in an accuracy test, I probably fire 3-4 rounds a minute, and most barrels will walk inside ten rounds. I would be very impressed with a field weight (as in something SR25 contour or lighter) barrel that could hold POA/POI for 10 rounds in 308 in 2-3 minutes. |
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Posted: 7/5/2014 4:32:21 AM EDT
[#24]
I am also looking into a AR in 308.
Thus far I settled on a Mega Arms upper/lower set for a build. I'll look at a good 18" or 20" SS barrel in "normal weight" (I found Rainier to have an interesting offer). The trigger will be a good 2-stage. Full stock. I am uncertain of the free float handguard choice. |
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Posted: 7/5/2014 6:05:50 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am also looking into a AR in 308. Thus far I settled on a Mega Arms upper/lower set for a build. I'll look at a good 18" or 20" SS barrel in "normal weight" (I found Rainier to have an interesting offer). The trigger will be a good 2-stage. Full stock. I am uncertain of the free float handguard choice. Add a JP .308 Bolt and Syrac or SLR adjustable gas block to the list. I like the look of the new Fortis handguards but am still very happy with my JP. |
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Posted: 7/18/2014 11:57:35 PM EDT
[#26]
Happy LMT MWSE owner here. DSGarms for $2400. Took off the irons, added a Trijicon 3-9 Accupoint in a Larue LT104 and also a Larue Harris bipod combo. Couldnt be happier. Thinking of a T-1 in a Larue offset mount..not sure yet. Bout 100 rds thru the rifle so far. Been flawless. Of course, I would be stoked to get the OBR or KAC as well. Maybe in time....Ill try and add pics soon.
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Posted: 7/19/2014 12:21:04 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think the reason people measure groups center to center is that bullets don't put a mark on paper that is the diameter of the bullet. So it's easier to get an accurate measurement using the estimated visual center of holes because their OD's are not to size. I guess an alternate method is measuring the "smudge line diameter" of a round as a constant and going edge to edge and deleting that diameter. There are a lot of idiocyncracies to group measurement. Some people will show you a five round group and it is measured without accounting for the worst round. It's part of what makes accuracy testing slightly abstract. I've seen guys shoot groups on the range (mostly with lighter barreled rifles), allowing several minutes between rounds. If you do that of course the barrel can be the same temperature for every round fired so barrel stress isn't a component or is very much less a component of the result. When I shoot a group in an accuracy test, I probably fire 3-4 rounds a minute, and most barrels will walk inside ten rounds. I would be very impressed with a field weight (as in something SR25 contour or lighter) barrel that could hold POA/POI for 10 rounds in 308 in 2-3 minutes. |
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Posted: 7/26/2014 9:39:30 AM EDT
[#28]
I Googled up " this thread "
Hogtooth5R entered it into their " Round 4 (six 5-shot groups). " 
ETA - Remember TheBelly, the kid that came by with the 4" rifle ? Well, by golly, he's cuttin' a rug over in that thread too ... Name: Thebelly Rifle: LaRue PredatAR 308Win 101y (92m) Average: .526 MOA Best: .332 MOA Worst: .725 MOA 
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Posted: 7/27/2014 11:15:38 PM EDT
[#29]
This
I have a SR25 EC and use to have a LMT = I just always wanted a SR25 Quote HistoryQuoted:
If price is of no concern I would buy in this order: SR25 ECC/ACC LaRue Predatar MWS Build my own |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 10:30:51 AM EDT
[#30]
I have and have deployed a Knights SR-25 EC, ECC and MK-110k1 and all three are 1/2" moa or less rifles with the ammunition they like.
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