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rlamm80
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Posted: 12/10/2011 1:34:03 PM
Just wondering if it would be possible or if anyone has tried it, building a 460S&W on an ar15 platform? i live in bear country and we had 2 people this year killed by grizzlies. i have a .458 socom and love it but just was thinking it might be cool to have a .460 that way i can pack one type of ammo for the pistol and the rifle. mainly because when on horse back or on quads i dont always carry the rifle when i get off to walk around.

thanks for any info

robert
futuremodal
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Posted: 12/10/2011 2:19:02 PM


It's my personal humble opinion that being able to pack only one type of ammo is an overstated issue.

The amount of money you'd have to spend on a specialized AR upper in 460 S&W would probably not be worth it compared to just getting two kinds of ammo (one for your handgun, one for your rifle of choice).


PS - Welcome to AR15.com
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Bretshooter
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Posted: 12/10/2011 2:36:53 PM
[Last Edit: 12/12/2011 10:13:26 PM by Bretshooter]
Be the first to own a 458 SOCOM revolver. Make it on a 45/70 BFR.

Edited to add: Being a single action w/ loading gate, the rebated rim ceases to be an issue for extraction.
fsjdw2
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Posted: 12/10/2011 2:40:01 PM
[Last Edit: 12/10/2011 2:41:10 PM by fsjdw2]
Can't be done. .223 overall cartridge length is 2.26 governed by the max length of the mag well/magazine. The overall length of a .460 is 2.29. Some .223 loads 80 and 90 grain loads go up to 2.38 BUT those are typicaly bolt action rounds or single load ones they dont work well with mags.
It might be dooable to change the barrel mating so that a recessed area to allow the rim of a .460 cartridge to go in, and change the gas system(heavily), super heavy buffer, chamber changes(and enough metal on the outside), you might be able to do it, but likely you would end up with a relativly heavy (10lbs ish) AR that would kick like no other AR around(buffer or not that is a HUGE bullet moving pretty dang fast). Why not just save about 1500 bucks and spend 100 bucks on a gym membership and work out once, the differance of carrying 6 extra for your back up pistol would be unnoticed.

On that note I want an AK49 ( an AK47 in 45.70 ) cuz we are Alaska after all, never know when you may have to dig your rifle out of the mud to shoot through a house and stop the charging 454 v8 on the far side .

Where you at in ID, I used to run around Burley and Moscow back in the day.
ziarifleman
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Posted: 12/10/2011 2:40:25 PM
Originally Posted By Bretshooter:
Be the first to own a 458 SOCOM revolver. Make it on a 45/70 BFR.


Probably have to be on an X frame Smith, with a completely custom cylinder.

I say a Smith, because it will have to use moon clips to hold on to that round.
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Bretshooter
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Posted: 12/10/2011 2:46:00 PM
[Last Edit: 12/10/2011 2:49:07 PM by Bretshooter]
Yeah, I edited to address that.

And I misread the OP's round. Is the 460SW longer than 45/70?
rlamm80
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Posted: 12/10/2011 6:00:20 PM
im in montana now days but was in Lewiston just south of Moscow
rlamm80
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Posted: 12/10/2011 6:02:01 PM
thanks for all the info guys.
JoshAston
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Posted: 12/10/2011 8:27:01 PM
If anyone could build it, Ron Williams could. Mags might be an issue though.
I, like God, do not play with dice and do not believe in coincidence.
rlamm80
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Posted: 12/10/2011 9:19:14 PM
i kinda started this topic with no research. since the OAL size was brought up couldnt you just seat the bullets alittle deeper? im kinda a novice to reloading and i have built a few rifles, 6.8 and .223 and most of my .458. i just thought it would be cool to be able to reload a mass of 460 s&w and the other plus of having the same cal is if you forget your rifle ammo. i still think it would be cool to have that extra power the S&W produces. im not really worried about recoil i have put muzzle breaks on every rifle except a few 5.56 ars. i shoot so much ammo i want to enjoy it when i do and its just so nice to sight in one handed and not have any muzzle jump.
futuremodal
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Posted: 12/11/2011 12:24:06 AM


Just wait a few years, I'm betting Taurus/Rossi will come out with a Ragin' Cajun Circuit Judge carbine so you can plink some 460S&W after a hard day of killing bad guys with #9 410 shot.






yeah, I actually would want one of those ...
And all the powers of darkness tremble at what they just heard .......
JoshAston
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Posted: 12/11/2011 2:28:55 AM
Originally Posted By fsjdw2:
Can't be done. .223 overall cartridge length is 2.26 governed by the max length of the mag well/magazine. The overall length of a .460 is 2.29.


PRI mags will allow up to 2.3", so you could conceivably have custom mags that will feed that rimmed round made to fit in the AR magwell.
I, like God, do not play with dice and do not believe in coincidence.
fsjdw2
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Posted: 12/11/2011 3:14:35 AM
Originally Posted By Bretshooter:
Yeah, I edited to address that.

And I misread the OP's round. Is the 460SW longer than 45/70?


I suppose it would be dooable. Spendy, heavy as all getup, and might strange kicking. a .45-70 is about 2.550 inches long a .454 casull is 2.29 IIRC, depending on load. Also less than ideal, a .454 is a better choice for the AK49, and potentially do able. Proformance wise a .454 casull and a .45 -70 are closeish in all the older loadings and in many modern commercial loadings(down loaded for potentially old rifles out there). I suppose that a hand loaded .454 casull out of a 16 inch barrel would be zinging along at nearly modern .45-70 speeds. 24 inch .45-70 300 grain load goes at 2000 fps,(modern hot) .454 casull out of a 7.5 inch barrel goes at 1650 fps. an extra 9.5 inches of barrel might allow an extra 200 FPS putting them DANM close with much less crazy ammo than the .460(which is identical to the .25 inch longer .45-70 our of a 24 inch RIFLE!!! A FREAKING RIFLE PISTOL!!!). A rifle is a rifle a pistol is a pistol and a .460 pistol is a pistol that weighs what a light rifle weighs and kicks WAY harder.
Rebelwolf
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Posted: 12/11/2011 9:11:26 AM
Originally Posted By rlamm80:
i kinda started this topic with no research. since the OAL size was brought up couldnt you just seat the bullets alittle deeper? im kinda a novice to reloading and i have built a few rifles, 6.8 and .223 and most of my .458. i just thought it would be cool to be able to reload a mass of 460 s&w and the other plus of having the same cal is if you forget your rifle ammo.


Seating deeper will almost always result in higher pressures since you lose case capacity. If you had to seat the bullet a lot deeper in the rifle than the handgun you would have to back off on the powder charge to keep the pressure in check. So you lose power in the rifle. And most likely the rifle and handgun will like different loads. I have a .41 magnum Ruger Blackhawk and a 14 inch bull barrel in .41 magnum for my Thompson Contender I can shoot the stuff I load for the Blackhawk in the contender but not the other way around.
Rockrat
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Posted: 12/11/2011 1:41:04 PM
[Last Edit: 12/11/2011 1:41:56 PM by Rockrat]
Being the 460 S&W is a rimmed case, mags would be the biggest drawback. You might find someone to turn off the rims and make it a rimless case. .223 case length is 1.76" and the 460 S&W is 1.80", so length is close. That would be doable.. I am sure you could find some bullet to keep OAL within limits. You could have the rims rebated a bit, to .473", but then you would also need a good bolt, maybe one for the 450 bushmaster, it would be the correct diameter.

If you are shooting a single action type revolver, the the rebated rims would not be any trouble, but on a DA revolver, the lack of rims would be a drawback. Pressure is pretty high on the S&W, so that might preclude you from making a conversion. Bolt breakage might be common.

Doable, yes, practical, not likely

Hate to say, but if you want same calibers in handgun and rifle, then go with a 475/480 ruger redhawk and a Rossi levergun in 480. Other alternative would be the previously mentioned BFR in 45-70 and a Marlin Guide Gun, in 45-70 (or 444 marlin, I think both are available in both guns too). BFR might make a pistol in 450 Bushmaster so you could have that combo
futuremodal
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Posted: 12/11/2011 3:40:40 PM

Originally Posted By Rockrat:
Being the 460 S&W is a rimmed case, mags would be the biggest drawback. You might find someone to turn off the rims and make it a rimless case. .223 case length is 1.76" and the 460 S&W is 1.80", so length is close. That would be doable.. I am sure you could find some bullet to keep OAL within limits. You could have the rims rebated a bit, to .473", but then you would also need a good bolt, maybe one for the 450 bushmaster, it would be the correct diameter.

If you are shooting a single action type revolver, the the rebated rims would not be any trouble, but on a DA revolver, the lack of rims would be a drawback. Pressure is pretty high on the S&W, so that might preclude you from making a conversion. Bolt breakage might be common.

Doable, yes, practical, not likely

Hate to say, but if you want same calibers in handgun and rifle, then go with a 475/480 ruger redhawk and a Rossi levergun in 480. Other alternative would be the previously mentioned BFR in 45-70 and a Marlin Guide Gun, in 45-70 (or 444 marlin, I think both are available in both guns too). BFR might make a pistol in 450 Bushmaster so you could have that combo


I think BFR also makes a .50 Beowulf revolver. I've spent many a hour contemplating that combo for the woods ...

Love my Beo.

PS - OP, I will always consider Lewiston my hometown away from home.

And all the powers of darkness tremble at what they just heard .......
rlamm80
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Posted: 12/11/2011 6:28:04 PM
thanks again for all the replies. i think i will stick with my current set up .458 socom with eotech and the .460 V. ill just throw some ammo in both the truck and the horse trailer so im never without.
thanks again

Robert
Bretshooter
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Posted: 12/12/2011 10:59:44 AM
There is a .008" difference in the base (not rim) diameter between 458 SOCOM and 500S&W, with the socom being the larger. The BFR is chambered in the 500, so it MAY be possible to rechamber in 458.

Considering the max pressure is 60k for the 500S&W, and only around 37k for the socom, it would seem very possible.