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Posted: 6/30/2014 5:43:35 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bruizer:
Those of you using the 6.8 pri mags, what follower did you use to replace the spc one? 556 magpul anti-tilt follower |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 6/30/2014 7:40:55 PM EDT
[#2]
I think I found the point of diminishing returns with the 6.5 PCC. My original 85 gr HP, H335 load using the old 55114 PSI data was shooting an average of 3054 fps. Using the new 62000 PSI load data, same 85 gr HP, H335 load, I am only getting 3044 fps. I am shooting an 18" barrel, so those with the 24" barrel should be getting upwards of 3200 fps. The total difference in powder charge was also only .5 gr. This was also a very compressed load that was crowning the rim when I seated the bullet. So, I am sticking with the old data. Now I have a just broken in 6 x 45mm, 18" barrel that needs some load development done too! Good luck and stay safe.
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Posted: 6/30/2014 8:50:34 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hockeynick39:
I think I found the point of diminishing returns with the 6.5 PCC. My original 85 gr HP, H335 load using the old 55114 PSI data was shooting an average of 3054 fps. Using the new 62000 PSI load data, same 85 gr HP, H335 load, I am only getting 3044 fps. I am shooting an 18" barrel, so those with the 24" barrel should be getting upwards of 3200 fps. The total difference in powder charge was also only .5 gr. This was also a very compressed load that was crowning the rim when I seated the bullet. So, I am sticking with the old data. Now I have a just broken in 6 x 45mm, 18" barrel that needs some load development done too! Good luck and stay safe. How many grains of H335 did you use for your old data |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 7/1/2014 6:09:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: hockeynick39]
[#4]
30.6 gr COL 2.285" and a CCI 450 SRMP. My case capacity with the Winchester/ IMI (Israeli Military Industries) cases is 33 gr H2O. This is also a compressed load, but only makes it into the neck
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USA
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Posted: 7/3/2014 4:26:53 PM EDT
[#5]
Fellas check your mailboxes...goodies should have arrived today...Thanks.
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Posted: 7/3/2014 4:30:44 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dr69er:
Fellas check your mailboxes...goodies should have arrived today...Thanks. got the stuff today Vic thanks, will try the 300 blk mag out this weekend |
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USA
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Posted: 7/3/2014 4:36:27 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BIGGDAWG:
got the stuff today Vic thanks, will try the 300 blk mag out this weekend Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BIGGDAWG:
Originally Posted By Dr69er:
Fellas check your mailboxes...goodies should have arrived today...Thanks. got the stuff today Vic thanks, will try the 300 blk mag out this weekend Thanks for your hard work, enjoy. |
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Posted: 7/3/2014 8:17:02 PM EDT
[#8]
Yep, got the mag. Thanks man.
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USA
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Posted: 7/3/2014 8:20:50 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hilljack:
Yep, got the mag. Thanks man. Thank you...enjoy. |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 7/5/2014 7:32:28 PM EDT
[#10]
Received the magazine today, thank you. Nice, just wish the internal dimensions were 2.280" or better. I was only able to get 2 rounds in it from my existing stock. I am heading to Germany on Wednesday and will not be back until the end of the month, so testing on some short COLs will have to wait a bit on my end.
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USA
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Posted: 7/5/2014 7:44:59 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hockeynick39:
Received the magazine today, thank you. Nice, just wish the internal dimensions were 2.280" or better. I was only able to get 2 rounds in it from my existing stock. I am heading to Germany on Wednesday and will not be back until the end of the month, so testing on some short COLs will have to wait a bit on my end. Thanks Nick, Yeah, I was a bit disappointed too that the COL was not longer than 2.275"... Hope you get back safe, thanks again. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/5/2014 8:32:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Dr69er]
[#12]
Here is a recent 6.5mm PCC AR-15 Upper build...
Billet Flattop Upper w/ M4 feedramps Magpul Gen II Front and Rear Flip-Up Sights BTE Clamp-On Matte SS Low-Pro Gas Block Melonite Coated Gas Tube HPI/MPI BCG, USM4 Key-Mod Ultra Light Quad Rail 22" Twist Fluted BHW SS 416R, Poly 3G, 1:8 Twist Barrel, Matte Finish Miculek, Multiport Comp/Brake 
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FL, USA
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Posted: 7/7/2014 8:34:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AR-4C]
[#13]
Do you have a blueprint drawing for a standard contour 18" barrel with a rifle length gas system and a 5/8"-24 threaded muzzle?
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USA
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Posted: 7/7/2014 10:29:17 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AR-4C:
Do you have a blueprint drawing for a standard contour 18" barrel with a rifle length gas system and a 5/8"-24 threaded muzzle? Here are the available BHW factory AR barrel contours with dims...Available with the 6.5mm PCC as well as many other calibers they make: http://www.blackholeweaponry.com/Profiles.html Thanks. |
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Posted: 7/11/2014 12:45:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Bruizer]
[#15]
bump for any updates
on a side note, I've noticed with the seating die, that it is completely screwed down with no more adjustment left and i'm just barely getting 2.295. This is on a single stage Lee press. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/11/2014 2:02:06 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bruizer:
bump for any updates
on a side note, I've noticed with the seating die, that it is completely screwed down with no more adjustment left and i'm just barely getting 2.295. This is on a single stage Lee press. Hello Bruizer, As a far as updates, your barrel is due to be finally shipped in four weeks from the factory (I updated the shipping status today), since your barrel has to be black phosphated it has put a big delay on your order (3-4 weeks)... As far as COL on your dies it will very with the COL due to the projectile contour/ogive, if you have any Issues in getting your COL with various loads, it can be easily adjusted by using a spacer...I can make one for you and ship it to you for free if need be. There is also some more good news on the horizon with regards to the 6.5mm PCC cartridge, but I can't go Into too much detail yet at this time, suffice to say it is good news and will open the round to the ever increasing popularity in the world of Pistol/SBR/Suppressor uses, etc. It will also be geared to go Into a more "mainstream wildcat" AR-15 cartridge... Thanks. |
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Posted: 7/11/2014 3:02:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Bruizer]
[#17]
I'll experiment around with making a spacer, if nothing comes out satisfactorily, i'll let you know.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 7/23/2014 12:39:52 AM EDT
[#18]
Thanks for the Mag Vic, If it is too short OAL for the 6.5 pcc it work well for my 300 black out which I usually load to 2.095 I will try it out this weekend as well as some new 223 Pri mags I got, I have some Sierra Varminter 85g loaded up hopefully I can see the 3200 fps that hockeynick is talking about, I loaded them from 28.8 grains to 30.8 in .4 grain increments with H335 in fire formed cases, only difference is these are loaded with ccI 400 primers instead of 450 primers.
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USA
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Posted: 7/23/2014 10:36:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Dr69er]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spinlite1:
Thanks for the Mag Vic, If it is too short OAL for the 6.5 pcc it work well for my 300 black out which I usually load to 2.095 I will try it out this weekend as well as some new 223 Pri mags I got, I have some Sierra Varminter 85g loaded up hopefully I can see the 3200 fps that hockeynick is talking about, I loaded them from 28.8 grains to 30.8 in .4 grain increments with H335 in fire formed cases, only difference is these are loaded with ccI 400 primers instead of 450 primers. No problem your welcome, I am looking for real world field results with the larger .223 based wildcats like the 6.5mm PCC round with these mags., and possibly for use with the 6.5 Grendel/.264 LBC and 6.8 SPC II with the appropriate followers in the magazine... I measured a few of them for COL and they varied from 2.272" to 2.286", so the guys that wound up with the longer COL mags have some more wiggle room so to speak... It would be great if we can get these mags to function reliably with all the above mentioned rounds/calibers above, so I felt that why don't I/we just by a batch of these mags and send them out for real world testing four our loyal 6.5mm PCC customers (who also have in many cases other .223 variants like the .300 BLK) for free and get some feedback from them... With regards to the 6.5mm PCC and the 85gr. loads, 3,054 fps is about as close to maximum velocity with H335 powder as we have tried, you may be able to break the 3,100 fps threshold since you have the long 24" Bbl...but please use caution and safe reloading Technics, also, the CCI 400 primers are not the best primers to use as they do tend to have thinner primer cup walls and have a tendency to show premature pressure signs from our experience...The Winchester SRP's, CCI 450's, Federal 205's, Remington 7-1/2 all have thicker cup walls and tend to be better suited for reloading work. The H335 powder (as with many other ball powders in the same burn rate range) seems to be safe/stable with small rifle magnum powders from our field testing and tend to give a better/more complete burn and thus more velocity, but always use caution anyway. Thanks again fellas, hope all goes well. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 5:02:35 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spinlite1:
Thanks for the Mag Vic, If it is too short OAL for the 6.5 pcc it work well for my 300 black out which I usually load to 2.095 I will try it out this weekend as well as some new 223 Pri mags I got, I have some Sierra Varminter 85g loaded up hopefully I can see the 3200 fps that hockeynick is talking about, I loaded them from 28.8 grains to 30.8 in .4 grain increments with H335 in fire formed cases, only difference is these are loaded with ccI 400 primers instead of 450 primers. Definitely interested in this |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 7/24/2014 9:09:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: spinlite1]
[#21]
I have decided to take a break from testing with the N133 powder for a while and focus on the H335 load development, I was reaching 2950 fps with the N133 @ 27.3g which is all I could fit in the case and Sierra Varmintor 85g pills, I will post all the details later.
This is with the 24" Barrel |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 7/24/2014 9:51:37 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dr69er:
No problem your welcome, I am looking for real world field results with the larger .223 based wildcats like the 6.5mm PCC round with these mags., and possibly for use with the 6.5 Grendel/.264 LBC and 6.8 SPC II with the appropriate followers in the magazine... I measured a few of them for COL and they varied from 2.272" to 2.286", so the guys that wound up with the longer COL mags have some more wiggle room so to speak... It would be great if we can get these mags to function reliably with all the above mentioned rounds/calibers above, so I felt that why don't I/we just by a batch of these mags and send them out for real world testing four our loyal 6.5mm PCC customers (who also have in many cases other .223 variants like the .300 BLK) for free and get some feedback from them... With regards to the 6.5mm PCC and the 85gr. loads, 3,054 fps is about as close to maximum velocity with H335 powder as we have tried, you may be able to break the 3,100 fps threshold since you have the long 24" Bbl...but please use caution and safe reloading Technics, also, the CCI 400 primers are not the best primers to use as they do tend to have thinner primer cup walls and have a tendency to show premature pressure signs from our experience...The Winchester SRP's, CCI 450's, Federal 205's, Remington 7-1/2 all have thicker cup walls and tend to be better suited for reloading work. The H335 powder (as with many other ball powders in the same burn rate range) seems to be safe/stable with small rifle magnum powders from our field testing and tend to give a better/more complete burn and thus more velocity, but always use caution anyway. Thanks again fellas, hope all goes well. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dr69er:
Originally Posted By spinlite1:
Thanks for the Mag Vic, If it is too short OAL for the 6.5 pcc it work well for my 300 black out which I usually load to 2.095 I will try it out this weekend as well as some new 223 Pri mags I got, I have some Sierra Varminter 85g loaded up hopefully I can see the 3200 fps that hockeynick is talking about, I loaded them from 28.8 grains to 30.8 in .4 grain increments with H335 in fire formed cases, only difference is these are loaded with ccI 400 primers instead of 450 primers. No problem your welcome, I am looking for real world field results with the larger .223 based wildcats like the 6.5mm PCC round with these mags., and possibly for use with the 6.5 Grendel/.264 LBC and 6.8 SPC II with the appropriate followers in the magazine... I measured a few of them for COL and they varied from 2.272" to 2.286", so the guys that wound up with the longer COL mags have some more wiggle room so to speak... It would be great if we can get these mags to function reliably with all the above mentioned rounds/calibers above, so I felt that why don't I/we just by a batch of these mags and send them out for real world testing four our loyal 6.5mm PCC customers (who also have in many cases other .223 variants like the .300 BLK) for free and get some feedback from them... With regards to the 6.5mm PCC and the 85gr. loads, 3,054 fps is about as close to maximum velocity with H335 powder as we have tried, you may be able to break the 3,100 fps threshold since you have the long 24" Bbl...but please use caution and safe reloading Technics, also, the CCI 400 primers are not the best primers to use as they do tend to have thinner primer cup walls and have a tendency to show premature pressure signs from our experience...The Winchester SRP's, CCI 450's, Federal 205's, Remington 7-1/2 all have thicker cup walls and tend to be better suited for reloading work. The H335 powder (as with many other ball powders in the same burn rate range) seems to be safe/stable with small rifle magnum powders from our field testing and tend to give a better/more complete burn and thus more velocity, but always use caution anyway. Thanks again fellas, hope all goes well. Thanks for the advice, I already had this brass primed up , I will be careful and will only use 450 or winchester which is what I have from your suggested list with 335 powder,and I will use the match primers with the vv n133 powder as it seems to work well going forward. I do rely on you and the guys on this forum to keep me going in the right direction, I only started reloading a little over a year ago with the blackout and still have a lot to learn. Thanks again |
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USA
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Posted: 7/24/2014 11:00:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Dr69er]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spinlite1:
I have decided to take a break from testing with the N133 powder for a while and focus on the H335 load development, I was reaching 2950 fps with the N133 @ 27.3g which is all I could fit in the case and Sierra Varmintor 85g pills, I will post all the details later. This is with the 24" Barrel That's pretty good velocity with the load combo of the Sie. 85gr. TNT and N133 powder (Yep, 2,950 fps is not to shabby at all )...keep us updated. Thanks. |
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Posted: 7/26/2014 11:53:12 AM EDT
[#24]
Vic - just a quick thanks again for your help while doing R&D on the Wolverine...
I'm really glad to see the 6.5 has been working out well for you! I will need to pick one of these up sometime soon... once the dust settles a little bit over here I'll hit you up for a barrel and die set. -Mark |
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USA
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Posted: 7/26/2014 12:00:23 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheHomelandSoldier:
Vic - just a quick thanks again for your help while doing R&D on the Wolverine... I'm really glad to see the 6.5 has been working out well for you! I will need to pick one of these up sometime soon... once the dust settles a little bit over here I'll hit you up for a barrel and die set. -Mark Anytime Mark, glad I was able to help you...Looks like the .277 Wolverine round is going to do great as well. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 7/26/2014 12:10:16 PM EDT
[#26]
Have you thought about modifying the front of an aluminum mag using a TIG welder to get a longer COL?
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USA
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Posted: 7/26/2014 12:51:18 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AR-4C:
Have you thought about modifying the front of an aluminum mag using a TIG welder to get a longer COL? Unfortunately, welding is not my forte...It could possibly work though for someone with some really good welding skills... There was a guy do did a you tube video who milled a slot on a Pmag so he could use longer COL's pills for his WSSM rounds....I try to find the video link.... I also have a friend who modded a few standard AR-15 mags into a single/center column feed with COL's in the 2.400" area and he was getting just above 2,600 feet per second with 123gr. VLD rounds with my original 6.5mm AR-TCU barrel (which was cut from a 4150 CM Pac-Nor Poly 5 G blank). |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 7/26/2014 1:58:22 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dr69er:
Unfortunately, welding is not my forte...It could possibly work though for someone with some really good welding skills... There was a guy do did a you tube video who milled a slot on a Pmag so he could use longer COL's pills for his WSSM rounds....I try to find the video link.... I also have a friend who modded a few standard AR-15 mags into a single/center column feed with COL's in the 2.400" area and he was getting just above 2,600 feet per second with 123gr. VLD rounds with my original 6.5mm AR-TCU barrel (which was cut from a 4150 CM Pac-Nor Poly 5 G blank). Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dr69er:
Originally Posted By AR-4C:
Have you thought about modifying the front of an aluminum mag using a TIG welder to get a longer COL? Unfortunately, welding is not my forte...It could possibly work though for someone with some really good welding skills... There was a guy do did a you tube video who milled a slot on a Pmag so he could use longer COL's pills for his WSSM rounds....I try to find the video link.... I also have a friend who modded a few standard AR-15 mags into a single/center column feed with COL's in the 2.400" area and he was getting just above 2,600 feet per second with 123gr. VLD rounds with my original 6.5mm AR-TCU barrel (which was cut from a 4150 CM Pac-Nor Poly 5 G blank). Magazines removed from the equation, is 2.295" COL the max? |
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USA
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Posted: 7/26/2014 2:11:33 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AR-4C:
Magazines removed from the equation, is 2.295" COL the max? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AR-4C:
Originally Posted By Dr69er:
Originally Posted By AR-4C:
Have you thought about modifying the front of an aluminum mag using a TIG welder to get a longer COL? Unfortunately, welding is not my forte...It could possibly work though for someone with some really good welding skills... There was a guy do did a you tube video who milled a slot on a Pmag so he could use longer COL's pills for his WSSM rounds....I try to find the video link.... I also have a friend who modded a few standard AR-15 mags into a single/center column feed with COL's in the 2.400" area and he was getting just above 2,600 feet per second with 123gr. VLD rounds with my original 6.5mm AR-TCU barrel (which was cut from a 4150 CM Pac-Nor Poly 5 G blank). Magazines removed from the equation, is 2.295" COL the max? No not at all, we still have mags that will give us 2.285" to 2.302" COL like the H&- 416 , PRI 6.8 mags w/ .223 followers, and new 5.56 ASC mags and even the cheap AR Stoner 5.56 mags (Midway USA) that can give 2.295" COL's... |
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Posted: 7/26/2014 3:12:03 PM EDT
[#30]
I windowed a few of my mags and it gives me roughly 2.36 col
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Posted: 7/26/2014 3:50:28 PM EDT
[#31]
Vic, have you looked at getting case gauges and trimmers (like the WFT) made up?
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Posted: 7/26/2014 4:25:39 PM EDT
[#32]
Bigdawg that looks aewsome. I might try that too. Hope your safari was awesome
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Posted: 7/26/2014 4:35:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BIGGDAWG]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lakemoor:
Bigdawg that looks aewsome. I might try that too. Hope your safari was awesome yes my safari was absolutely awesome you can check out my story on african hunting .com here is a link to the thread my african safari thread |
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USA
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Posted: 7/26/2014 5:02:26 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bruizer:
Vic, have you looked at getting case gauges and trimmers (like the WFT) made up? Yes I have, I could make them myself if need be...but most guys don't want or don't feel the need to spend the extra money for them...If I were to source them out I would have to have a large batch done and pre-pay for them upfront etc. Since every barrel made for us is head-spaced for us at the factory and then we also double/triple check head-space and we also function check the feeding/chambering using dummy rounds at our shop before the barrel ships out virtually all possible errors are eliminated in that department. I would have to check with my friend Mark to see what it cost him to make the slot gauges for his round...Last time I checked the gauges were somewhere in the $40-$50 range each... Most guys are using Universal case trimmers with power drill attachments and they can make several dozen trimmed cases per hour or more... |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 7/26/2014 5:39:18 PM EDT
[#35]
Dr69er,
I've sent you an IM. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/26/2014 6:33:20 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AR-4C:
Dr69er, I've sent you an IM. Email returned, thanks. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 7/27/2014 4:47:23 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spinlite1:
I have decided to take a break from testing with the N133 powder for a while and focus on the H335 load development, I was reaching 2950 fps with the N133 @ 27.3g which is all I could fit in the case and Sierra Varmintor 85g pills, I will post all the details later. This is with the 24" Barrel Here are the overdue details I promised from the 6/26/14 Trip to the Range I am not sure what happened (I think to many interuptions at the range), but I never did get the accuracy data from my targets, but here is the velocity #'s Sierra Varminter HP85g, with VV-N133, CCI 450 primers, OAL-2.285, Temp 77 deg (was having issues with the Chrony note: "ERROR"), All were fire formed cases with 2 firings on them 25.9g 2832 fps 2871 fps AVG- 2852 26.3g ERROR ERROR 26.5g 2882 fps ERROR 26.7g 2964 fps 2928 fps Avg - 2946 26.9g 2938 fps 2942 fps Avg - 2940 27.1g 2928 fps 2950 fps Avg - 2939 I will have to redo those last 3 loadings and see what the accuracy is for those, if they are as accurate as some of my other N133 loads (.20 to .50) than this will be great. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:01:45 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spinlite1:
Here are the overdue details I promised from the 6/26/14 Trip to the Range I am not sure what happened (I think to many interuptions at the range), but I never did get the accuracy data from my targets, but here is the velocity #'s Sierra Varminter HP85g, with VV-N133, CCI 450 primers, OAL-2.285, Temp 77 deg (was having issues with the Chrony note: "ERROR"), All were fire formed cases with 2 firings on them 25.9g 2832 fps 2871 fps AVG- 2852 26.3g ERROR ERROR 26.5g 2882 fps ERROR 26.7g 2964 fps 2928 fps Avg - 2946 26.9g 2938 fps 2942 fps Avg - 2940 27.1g 2928 fps 2950 fps Avg - 2939 I will have to redo those last 3 loadings and see what the accuracy is for those, if they are as accurate as some of my other N133 loads (.20 to .50) than this will be great. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spinlite1:
Originally Posted By spinlite1:
I have decided to take a break from testing with the N133 powder for a while and focus on the H335 load development, I was reaching 2950 fps with the N133 @ 27.3g which is all I could fit in the case and Sierra Varmintor 85g pills, I will post all the details later. This is with the 24" Barrel Here are the overdue details I promised from the 6/26/14 Trip to the Range I am not sure what happened (I think to many interuptions at the range), but I never did get the accuracy data from my targets, but here is the velocity #'s Sierra Varminter HP85g, with VV-N133, CCI 450 primers, OAL-2.285, Temp 77 deg (was having issues with the Chrony note: "ERROR"), All were fire formed cases with 2 firings on them 25.9g 2832 fps 2871 fps AVG- 2852 26.3g ERROR ERROR 26.5g 2882 fps ERROR 26.7g 2964 fps 2928 fps Avg - 2946 26.9g 2938 fps 2942 fps Avg - 2940 27.1g 2928 fps 2950 fps Avg - 2939 I will have to redo those last 3 loadings and see what the accuracy is for those, if they are as accurate as some of my other N133 loads (.20 to .50) than this will be great. Wow, sub 1/2 MOA is fantastic with ~ 2,900 + FPS Velocity is quite good to say the least !, please keep us posted, just remember accuracy beats velocity...Thanks again for your updates ! |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:12:37 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spinlite1:
Thanks for the advice, I already had this brass primed up , I will be careful and will only use 450 or winchester which is what I have from your suggested list with 335 powder,and I will use the match primers with the vv n133 powder as it seems to work well going forward. I do rely on you and the guys on this forum to keep me going in the right direction, I only started reloading a little over a year ago with the blackout and still have a lot to learn. Thanks again Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spinlite1:
Originally Posted By Dr69er:
Originally Posted By spinlite1:
Thanks for the Mag Vic, If it is too short OAL for the 6.5 pcc it work well for my 300 black out which I usually load to 2.095 I will try it out this weekend as well as some new 223 Pri mags I got, I have some Sierra Varminter 85g loaded up hopefully I can see the 3200 fps that hockeynick is talking about, I loaded them from 28.8 grains to 30.8 in .4 grain increments with H335 in fire formed cases, only difference is these are loaded with ccI 400 primers instead of 450 primers. No problem your welcome, I am looking for real world field results with the larger .223 based wildcats like the 6.5mm PCC round with these mags., and possibly for use with the 6.5 Grendel/.264 LBC and 6.8 SPC II with the appropriate followers in the magazine... I measured a few of them for COL and they varied from 2.272" to 2.286", so the guys that wound up with the longer COL mags have some more wiggle room so to speak... It would be great if we can get these mags to function reliably with all the above mentioned rounds/calibers above, so I felt that why don't I/we just by a batch of these mags and send them out for real world testing four our loyal 6.5mm PCC customers (who also have in many cases other .223 variants like the .300 BLK) for free and get some feedback from them... With regards to the 6.5mm PCC and the 85gr. loads, 3,054 fps is about as close to maximum velocity with H335 powder as we have tried, you may be able to break the 3,100 fps threshold since you have the long 24" Bbl...but please use caution and safe reloading Technics, also, the CCI 400 primers are not the best primers to use as they do tend to have thinner primer cup walls and have a tendency to show premature pressure signs from our experience...The Winchester SRP's, CCI 450's, Federal 205's, Remington 7-1/2 all have thicker cup walls and tend to be better suited for reloading work. The H335 powder (as with many other ball powders in the same burn rate range) seems to be safe/stable with small rifle magnum powders from our field testing and tend to give a better/more complete burn and thus more velocity, but always use caution anyway. Thanks again fellas, hope all goes well. Thanks for the advice, I already had this brass primed up , I will be careful and will only use 450 or winchester which is what I have from your suggested list with 335 powder,and I will use the match primers with the vv n133 powder as it seems to work well going forward. I do rely on you and the guys on this forum to keep me going in the right direction, I only started reloading a little over a year ago with the blackout and still have a lot to learn. Thanks again Okay today I went to the range and did some hot loads with the Sierra Varminter HP 85g and H335, and CCi 400 primers (I will definately use 450's next time) Not the results I was hoping for in the Velocity or Accuracy dept. Temperature was 92 deg 65% humidity, OAL was 2.285, Also some of the Velocity #'s will be missing (3 shot groups), last 2 times at the range I have been having problem with my rifle firing a double tap when not wanted, it is as if the return spring is not stiff enough, I am planning on putting a Timney trigger in it, now I will do it sooner than later. Here are the #'s from today: 28.3g 2753 fps 2811 fps 2877 fps Avg - 2814 Group size .95" 28.6g 2807 fps 2932 fps 2798 fps Avg - 2846, very big spread, and shots were off target- at this point was not sure why 28.9g 2925 fps 2844 fps 2871 fps Avg 2880 Group size .92", shots were 5" right of aiming point, adjusted scope to correct, (big mistake I will realize later) 29.2g 2916 fps 2906 fps Avg - 2911, again shots were off Target 29.5g 2961 fps 2954 fps 2943 fps Avg - 2974, again shots were off of Target, at this point I started looking over my rifle to try and see if my scope was loose or a takedown pin was not all the way in or something, I found my rear sight base had come loose and was moving on the rail. I tightened it up and then I new I would have to get my scope back on. Decided to continue shooting my loads and work on it as I went. 29.8g 2964 fps 2990 fps 2969 fps Avg 2974 Group size 1.35", adjusted the scope 30.1g 2923 fps 2930 fps Avg 2927 Group size 1.0" 30.4g 2942 fps 2963 fps 2971 fps Avg - 2959, surprises me that this loading was slower than my 29.8g loading Group size 1.7" I was expecting more velocity, and as always hoping for better accuracy, with others getting 3050 fps from 18" barrel, with 6" more barrel I could not reach that, I know his load was 30.6g and maybe the big difference is the primers, I used CCI 400 instead of the CCI 450 primers, would love feedback or suggestions, I still consider myself a novice reloader. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:22:13 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spinlite1:
[ Okay today I went to the range and did some hot loads with the Sierra Varminter HP 85g and H335, and CCi 400 primers (I will definately use 450's next time) Not the results I was hoping for in the Velocity or Accuracy dept. Temperature was 92 deg 65% humidity, OAL was 2.285, Also some of the Velocity #'s will be missing (3 shot groups), last 2 times at the range I have been having problem with my rifle firing a double tap when not wanted, it is as if the return spring is not stiff enough, I am planning on putting a Timney trigger in it, now I will do it sooner than later. Here are the #'s from today: 28.3g 2753 fps 2811 fps 2877 fps Avg - 2814 Group size .95" 28.6g 2807 fps 2932 fps 2798 fps Avg - 2846, very big spread, and shots were off target- at this point was not sure why 28.9g 2925 fps 2844 fps 2871 fps Avg 2880 Group size .92", shots were 5" right of aiming point, adjusted scope to correct, (big mistake I will realize later) 29.2g 2916 fps 2906 fps Avg - 2911, again shots were off Target 29.5g 2961 fps 2954 fps 2943 fps Avg - 2974, again shots were off of Target, at this point I started looking over my rifle to try and see if my scope was loose or a takedown pin was not all the way in or something, I found my rear sight base had come loose and was moving on the rail. I tightened it up and then I new I would have to get my scope back on. Decided to continue shooting my loads and work on it as I went. 29.8g 2964 fps 2990 fps 2969 fps Avg 2974 Group size 1.35", adjusted the scope 30.1g 2923 fps 2930 fps Avg 2927 Group size 1.0" 30.4g 2942 fps 2963 fps 2971 fps Avg - 2959, surprises me that this loading was slower than my 29.8g loading Group size 1.7" I was expecting more velocity, and as always hoping for better accuracy, with others getting 3050 fps from 18" barrel, with 6" more barrel I could not reach that, I know his load was 30.6g and maybe the big difference is the primers, I used CCI 400 instead of the CCI 450 primers, would love feedback or suggestions, I still consider myself a novice reloader. When you see velocity go down as charge goes up you know you have reached max charge for your gun. Other than that you can rerun the test making sure your charge weights are accurate. also with the accuracy opening up it is also a sign of pushing too hard. my max with a 22 inch barrel is 29.7 h335 for 3000-3050 fps |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:26:31 PM EDT
[#41]
One other thing I forgot to mention, I made some changes to my Magazines, and all of them worked flawlessly today (first time, I usually have multiple FTF in every mag) Here is the list and the changes:
PRI 223 mags - all I did was sand the underside of the feed lips, it seemed they were really scratching the brass thus not letting it slide forward properly, worked perfect today ASC 6.8 with ASC 223 followers- I removed the ASC 223 followers and installed 223 magpul followers, I also put a strip of teflon tape in both sides of the inside of the mag to take up some of the slack, both these mags (17rd, and 25rd) worked perfect today. Also got my first H&H 223 mag and as expected it worked perfect with no modifications to it. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:32:32 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spinlite1:
Okay today I went to the range and did some hot loads with the Sierra Varminter HP 85g and H335, and CCi 400 primers (I will definately use 450's next time) Not the results I was hoping for in the Velocity or Accuracy dept. Temperature was 92 deg 65% humidity, OAL was 2.285, Also some of the Velocity #'s will be missing (3 shot groups), last 2 times at the range I have been having problem with my rifle firing a double tap when not wanted, it is as if the return spring is not stiff enough, I am planning on putting a Timney trigger in it, now I will do it sooner than later. Here are the #'s from today: 28.3g 2753 fps 2811 fps 2877 fps Avg - 2814 Group size .95" 28.6g 2807 fps 2932 fps 2798 fps Avg - 2846, very big spread, and shots were off target- at this point was not sure why 28.9g 2925 fps 2844 fps 2871 fps Avg 2880 Group size .92", shots were 5" right of aiming point, adjusted scope to correct, (big mistake I will realize later) 29.2g 2916 fps 2906 fps Avg - 2911, again shots were off Target 29.5g 2961 fps 2954 fps 2943 fps Avg - 2974, again shots were off of Target, at this point I started looking over my rifle to try and see if my scope was loose or a takedown pin was not all the way in or something, I found my rear sight base had come loose and was moving on the rail. I tightened it up and then I new I would have to get my scope back on. Decided to continue shooting my loads and work on it as I went. 29.8g 2964 fps 2990 fps 2969 fps Avg 2974 Group size 1.35", adjusted the scope 30.1g 2923 fps 2930 fps Avg 2927 Group size 1.0" 30.4g 2942 fps 2963 fps 2971 fps Avg - 2959, surprises me that this loading was slower than my 29.8g loading Group size 1.7" I was expecting more velocity, and as always hoping for better accuracy, with others getting 3050 fps from 18" barrel, with 6" more barrel I could not reach that, I know his load was 30.6g and maybe the big difference is the primers, I used CCI 400 instead of the CCI 450 primers, would love feedback or suggestions, I still consider myself a novice reloader. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spinlite1:
Originally Posted By spinlite1:
Originally Posted By Dr69er:
Originally Posted By spinlite1:
Thanks for the Mag Vic, If it is too short OAL for the 6.5 pcc it work well for my 300 black out which I usually load to 2.095 I will try it out this weekend as well as some new 223 Pri mags I got, I have some Sierra Varminter 85g loaded up hopefully I can see the 3200 fps that hockeynick is talking about, I loaded them from 28.8 grains to 30.8 in .4 grain increments with H335 in fire formed cases, only difference is these are loaded with ccI 400 primers instead of 450 primers. No problem your welcome, I am looking for real world field results with the larger .223 based wildcats like the 6.5mm PCC round with these mags., and possibly for use with the 6.5 Grendel/.264 LBC and 6.8 SPC II with the appropriate followers in the magazine... I measured a few of them for COL and they varied from 2.272" to 2.286", so the guys that wound up with the longer COL mags have some more wiggle room so to speak... It would be great if we can get these mags to function reliably with all the above mentioned rounds/calibers above, so I felt that why don't I/we just by a batch of these mags and send them out for real world testing four our loyal 6.5mm PCC customers (who also have in many cases other .223 variants like the .300 BLK) for free and get some feedback from them... With regards to the 6.5mm PCC and the 85gr. loads, 3,054 fps is about as close to maximum velocity with H335 powder as we have tried, you may be able to break the 3,100 fps threshold since you have the long 24" Bbl...but please use caution and safe reloading Technics, also, the CCI 400 primers are not the best primers to use as they do tend to have thinner primer cup walls and have a tendency to show premature pressure signs from our experience...The Winchester SRP's, CCI 450's, Federal 205's, Remington 7-1/2 all have thicker cup walls and tend to be better suited for reloading work. The H335 powder (as with many other ball powders in the same burn rate range) seems to be safe/stable with small rifle magnum powders from our field testing and tend to give a better/more complete burn and thus more velocity, but always use caution anyway. Thanks again fellas, hope all goes well. Thanks for the advice, I already had this brass primed up , I will be careful and will only use 450 or winchester which is what I have from your suggested list with 335 powder,and I will use the match primers with the vv n133 powder as it seems to work well going forward. I do rely on you and the guys on this forum to keep me going in the right direction, I only started reloading a little over a year ago with the blackout and still have a lot to learn. Thanks again Okay today I went to the range and did some hot loads with the Sierra Varminter HP 85g and H335, and CCi 400 primers (I will definately use 450's next time) Not the results I was hoping for in the Velocity or Accuracy dept. Temperature was 92 deg 65% humidity, OAL was 2.285, Also some of the Velocity #'s will be missing (3 shot groups), last 2 times at the range I have been having problem with my rifle firing a double tap when not wanted, it is as if the return spring is not stiff enough, I am planning on putting a Timney trigger in it, now I will do it sooner than later. Here are the #'s from today: 28.3g 2753 fps 2811 fps 2877 fps Avg - 2814 Group size .95" 28.6g 2807 fps 2932 fps 2798 fps Avg - 2846, very big spread, and shots were off target- at this point was not sure why 28.9g 2925 fps 2844 fps 2871 fps Avg 2880 Group size .92", shots were 5" right of aiming point, adjusted scope to correct, (big mistake I will realize later) 29.2g 2916 fps 2906 fps Avg - 2911, again shots were off Target 29.5g 2961 fps 2954 fps 2943 fps Avg - 2974, again shots were off of Target, at this point I started looking over my rifle to try and see if my scope was loose or a takedown pin was not all the way in or something, I found my rear sight base had come loose and was moving on the rail. I tightened it up and then I new I would have to get my scope back on. Decided to continue shooting my loads and work on it as I went. 29.8g 2964 fps 2990 fps 2969 fps Avg 2974 Group size 1.35", adjusted the scope 30.1g 2923 fps 2930 fps Avg 2927 Group size 1.0" 30.4g 2942 fps 2963 fps 2971 fps Avg - 2959, surprises me that this loading was slower than my 29.8g loading Group size 1.7" I was expecting more velocity, and as always hoping for better accuracy, with others getting 3050 fps from 18" barrel, with 6" more barrel I could not reach that, I know his load was 30.6g and maybe the big difference is the primers, I used CCI 400 instead of the CCI 450 primers, would love feedback or suggestions, I still consider myself a novice reloader. Typically the "ball" or spherical powders normally do better with the magnum (and match) primers, while the "stick" or extruded do not and will have a tendency to show pressure spikes, so don't use the magnum primers with the extruded powders. It seems like Sie. 85 grainers with the VV-N133 powder reaches it's peak at around 29.5 grs. to 29.8 grs. in your rifle, and at almost 3,000 fps. with really good accuracy It would seem that is where your golden window is with this load combo (or at least till you re-set your scope and mount). Don't forget the higher velocities were achieved with H335 powder and small rifle magnum powders, just take your time, get your scope set-up tightened down, and then work your loads back up...If your were achieving sub 1/2 MOA groups before you can do it again. I agree when you have distractions at the range its a downhill ride. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:33:09 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BIGGDAWG:
When you see velocity go down as charge goes up you know you have reached max charge for your gun. Other than that you can rerun the test making sure your charge weights are accurate. also with the accuracy opening up it is also a sign of pushing too hard. my max with a 22 inch barrel is 29.7 h335 for 3000-3050 fps Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BIGGDAWG:
Originally Posted By spinlite1:
[ Okay today I went to the range and did some hot loads with the Sierra Varminter HP 85g and H335, and CCi 400 primers (I will definately use 450's next time) Not the results I was hoping for in the Velocity or Accuracy dept. Temperature was 92 deg 65% humidity, OAL was 2.285, Also some of the Velocity #'s will be missing (3 shot groups), last 2 times at the range I have been having problem with my rifle firing a double tap when not wanted, it is as if the return spring is not stiff enough, I am planning on putting a Timney trigger in it, now I will do it sooner than later. Here are the #'s from today: 28.3g 2753 fps 2811 fps 2877 fps Avg - 2814 Group size .95" 28.6g 2807 fps 2932 fps 2798 fps Avg - 2846, very big spread, and shots were off target- at this point was not sure why 28.9g 2925 fps 2844 fps 2871 fps Avg 2880 Group size .92", shots were 5" right of aiming point, adjusted scope to correct, (big mistake I will realize later) 29.2g 2916 fps 2906 fps Avg - 2911, again shots were off Target 29.5g 2961 fps 2954 fps 2943 fps Avg - 2974, again shots were off of Target, at this point I started looking over my rifle to try and see if my scope was loose or a takedown pin was not all the way in or something, I found my rear sight base had come loose and was moving on the rail. I tightened it up and then I new I would have to get my scope back on. Decided to continue shooting my loads and work on it as I went. 29.8g 2964 fps 2990 fps 2969 fps Avg 2974 Group size 1.35", adjusted the scope 30.1g 2923 fps 2930 fps Avg 2927 Group size 1.0" 30.4g 2942 fps 2963 fps 2971 fps Avg - 2959, surprises me that this loading was slower than my 29.8g loading Group size 1.7" I was expecting more velocity, and as always hoping for better accuracy, with others getting 3050 fps from 18" barrel, with 6" more barrel I could not reach that, I know his load was 30.6g and maybe the big difference is the primers, I used CCI 400 instead of the CCI 450 primers, would love feedback or suggestions, I still consider myself a novice reloader. When you see velocity go down as charge goes up you know you have reached max charge for your gun. Other than that you can rerun the test making sure your charge weights are accurate. also with the accuracy opening up it is also a sign of pushing too hard. my max with a 22 inch barrel is 29.7 h335 for 3000-3050 fps Would a slower powder help, just wondering if the longer barrel will like slower powder better, Although I got pretty close to the same velocity with VV-N133 and it is quite a bit faster than H335, Just thinking out loud. I am assuming your 29.7 H335 load was with CCI 450 primers? |
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USA
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:39:25 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spinlite1:
One other thing I forgot to mention, I made some changes to my Magazines, and all of them worked flawlessly today (first time, I usually have multiple FTF in every mag) Here is the list and the changes: PRI 223 mags - all I did was sand the underside of the feed lips, it seemed they were really scratching the brass thus not letting it slide forward properly, worked perfect today ASC 6.8 with ASC 223 followers- I removed the ASC 223 followers and installed 223 magpul followers, I also put a strip of teflon tape in both sides of the inside of the mag to take up some of the slack, both these mags (17rd, and 25rd) worked perfect today. Also got my first H&H 223 mag and as expected it worked perfect with no modifications to it. Excellent news ! Glad it is really starting to workout for you with utra smooth results ! Like I said, don't get discouraged if something small is out of whack, It can usually be fixed and then you will be on the way to AR nirvana ! Thanks for the field reports...I may send you something really nice you may like to try out if I have a spare...Just email me your phone # at: [email protected] and I will call you tomorrow afternoon. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:42:50 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spinlite1:
Would a slower powder help, just wondering if the longer barrel will like slower powder better, Although I got pretty close to the same velocity with VV-N133 and it is quite a bit faster than H335, Just thinking out loud. I am assuming your 29.7 H335 load was with CCI 450 primers? I use rem 7 1/2 and wolf 556 mag primers with the same results. the problem with slower powder is we don't have room for more powder so slower powders are hard to get to work. some guys have gone about a grain higher with h335 than me but my gun don't like them that warm, it beats up the cases pretty good. i have gotten similar velocity with re7, xterminator |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:52:16 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dr69er:
Excellent news ! Glad it is really starting to workout for you with utra smooth results ! Like I said, don't get discouraged if something small is out of whack, It can usually be fixed and then you will be on the way to AR nirvana ! Thanks for the field reports...I may send you something really nice you may like to try out if I have a spare...Just email me your phone # at: [email protected] and I will call you tomorrow afternoon. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dr69er:
Originally Posted By spinlite1:
One other thing I forgot to mention, I made some changes to my Magazines, and all of them worked flawlessly today (first time, I usually have multiple FTF in every mag) Here is the list and the changes: PRI 223 mags - all I did was sand the underside of the feed lips, it seemed they were really scratching the brass thus not letting it slide forward properly, worked perfect today ASC 6.8 with ASC 223 followers- I removed the ASC 223 followers and installed 223 magpul followers, I also put a strip of teflon tape in both sides of the inside of the mag to take up some of the slack, both these mags (17rd, and 25rd) worked perfect today. Also got my first H&H 223 mag and as expected it worked perfect with no modifications to it. Excellent news ! Glad it is really starting to workout for you with utra smooth results ! Like I said, don't get discouraged if something small is out of whack, It can usually be fixed and then you will be on the way to AR nirvana ! Thanks for the field reports...I may send you something really nice you may like to try out if I have a spare...Just email me your phone # at: [email protected] and I will call you tomorrow afternoon. Thanks, and sent |
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USA
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:52:44 PM EDT
[#47]
If you have a H&K-416 mag it will be your best friend with any .223/5.56mm variant/wildcat, especially the 6.5mm PCC.
With 2.300" COL it will give you the added wiggle room needed for you...regardless on the load you will use... Yes, generally the slightly slower powders like H335 it will do a little better with the longer barrels...So with the longer available COL you have combined with your fire-formed cases should give you a velocity advantage... |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 7/27/2014 6:00:41 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BIGGDAWG:
I use rem 7 1/2 and wolf 556 mag primers with the same results. the problem with slower powder is we don't have room for more powder so slower powders are hard to get to work. some guys have gone about a grain higher with h335 than me but my gun don't like them that warm, it beats up the cases pretty good. i have gotten similar velocity with re7, xterminator Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BIGGDAWG:
Originally Posted By spinlite1:
Would a slower powder help, just wondering if the longer barrel will like slower powder better, Although I got pretty close to the same velocity with VV-N133 and it is quite a bit faster than H335, Just thinking out loud. I am assuming your 29.7 H335 load was with CCI 450 primers? I use rem 7 1/2 and wolf 556 mag primers with the same results. the problem with slower powder is we don't have room for more powder so slower powders are hard to get to work. some guys have gone about a grain higher with h335 than me but my gun don't like them that warm, it beats up the cases pretty good. i have gotten similar velocity with re7, xterminator I will rerun my loads with CCI 450 primers, and Rem BR primers, so far they give me the best velocity and accuracy, and see what happens, thanks for the advice. I know Vic advised not to use Mag primers with extruded powder like the VV-N133, is there a problem with running the Rem BR primers with it, I seem to get my best accuracy with it? Also a question about cleaning, Do you or any of the other guys clean after a certain # of firings when at the range shooting, or just wait till you get done at home? I have not been running any patches or even a bore snake thru my gun till I get back to the house. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/27/2014 6:11:33 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spinlite1:
I will rerun my loads with CCI 450 primers, and Rem BR primers, so far they give me the best velocity and accuracy, and see what happens, thanks for the advice. I know Vic advised not to use Mag primers with extruded powder like the VV-N133, is there a problem with running the Rem BR primers with it, I seem to get my best accuracy with it? Also a question about cleaning, Do you or any of the other guys clean after a certain # of firings when at the range shooting, or just wait till you get done at home? I have not been running any patches or even a bore snake thru my gun till I get back to the house. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spinlite1:
Originally Posted By BIGGDAWG:
Originally Posted By spinlite1:
Would a slower powder help, just wondering if the longer barrel will like slower powder better, Although I got pretty close to the same velocity with VV-N133 and it is quite a bit faster than H335, Just thinking out loud. I am assuming your 29.7 H335 load was with CCI 450 primers? I use rem 7 1/2 and wolf 556 mag primers with the same results. the problem with slower powder is we don't have room for more powder so slower powders are hard to get to work. some guys have gone about a grain higher with h335 than me but my gun don't like them that warm, it beats up the cases pretty good. i have gotten similar velocity with re7, xterminator I will rerun my loads with CCI 450 primers, and Rem BR primers, so far they give me the best velocity and accuracy, and see what happens, thanks for the advice. I know Vic advised not to use Mag primers with extruded powder like the VV-N133, is there a problem with running the Rem BR primers with it, I seem to get my best accuracy with it? Also a question about cleaning, Do you or any of the other guys clean after a certain # of firings when at the range shooting, or just wait till you get done at home? I have not been running any patches or even a bore snake thru my gun till I get back to the house. You should have no problems with the BR primers with any powder type as they tend to be very stable heat/temp/Ignition. Some guys like to wet and then dry patch the bore after every few strings for a constant results when working up loads... Since we have Polygonal bores cleaning is not as much of a Issue with this bore type... |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 6:17:34 PM EDT
[#50]
I normally don't clean while i am at the range after my rifles are broke in. I clean when i am home, shoot 5 of my standard loads then i do my work up loads.
normally i clean after 1-200 rounds not saying it is right just what i do. |
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