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Posted: 6/2/2010 1:59:42 PM
Originally Posted By Graycard:
I stand by my convictions.....It can't do anything more than the 6x45.............we will have to agree to disagree.........
Nothing wrong with that. The .25-.223 does "ring my chimes" and that alone is all I ask of it. I was looking for a 150 yard carbine that was easy to carry and had enough power for anything on my land (I have no desire to shoot any of my bears.) There are a lot of calibers and a lot of other firearms that would fill that need but this is the choice I made and at least I know I'll be the only one in my woods with one. cool.............. |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 2:40:08 PM
What is the difference between the 25x223, and the 25x40? what is the length of the 25x223 brass?
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Posted: 6/2/2010 6:57:03 PM
About the only difference is the 25x40 has the shoulder set back and it is trimmed shorter. The 25-223 is just necked up in the resizing and then trimmed about 2mm to make sure it does not ride to high on the bullet when it is seated to fit into an AR magazine. This is about as easy as it gets for a wildcat. The advantage to the 25x40 is I think it will fit heavier bullets (over 100 gr.)
If I was a wealthy man I could try them all. (may not get much work done but it would be fun) |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 10:10:36 PM
so it is a 25x43
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Posted: 6/2/2010 10:17:09 PM
Originally Posted By 1-Wolverine:
so it is a 25x43 If you want to go totally metric it is 6.35x43mm |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 10:27:01 PM
[Last Edit: 6/2/2010 10:28:10 PM by 1-Wolverine]
Originally Posted By 320pf:
Originally Posted By 1-Wolverine:
so it is a 25x43 If you want to go totally metric it is 6.35x43mm Hook me up, I will take a 18" H-bar profile, SPR style, 1" under hangaurd, .75 gas block. |
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Posted: 6/2/2010 10:43:54 PM
Originally Posted By Graycard:
About the only difference is the 25x40 has the shoulder set back and it is trimmed shorter. The 25-223 is just necked up in the resizing and then trimmed about 2mm to make sure it does not ride to high on the bullet when it is seated to fit into an AR magazine. This is about as easy as it gets for a wildcat. The advantage to the 25x40 is I think it will fit heavier bullets (over 100 gr.) If I was a wealthy man I could try them all. (may not get much work done but it would be fun) I wish it was that easy....... From the start the 25x40 was designed as a work-around for game management areas that did not allow .22 caliber center-fire cartridges.... It was not by luck or fluke that .25 cal was selected for the project, there was close to a decade of previous testing done on small cases similar to a PPC... There are a lot of BC crunchers here so it was laid out for use up to the more slick 100gr Matchking, although I gravitate more to the 80TTSX as a all-around hunter, currently running over 3,000fps....and that's pretty fast for a slow bullet....usually stay at or under 100gr, point of diminishing return. The smaller case and geometry offer several advantages that I won't get into here but one being that it accelerates the rise to peak pressure allowing smaller charges of powder and achieving the same or better performance of its full-size cousin in shorter barrels.... |
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Posted: 6/3/2010 12:53:14 AM
[Last Edit: 6/3/2010 12:54:48 AM by Gamma762]
I would just be supremely interested to see what one of these 25 cal wildcats could do with some of that uberpowder like they're running in the Mk318 ammo... other than increased performance in general, it would be very cool to get a 100gr bullet up to the velocity the Brits came up with in their study.
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Posted: 6/3/2010 10:12:51 AM
Originally Posted By 762x40mm:
Originally Posted By Graycard:
About the only difference is the 25x40 has the shoulder set back and it is trimmed shorter. The 25-223 is just necked up in the resizing and then trimmed about 2mm to make sure it does not ride to high on the bullet when it is seated to fit into an AR magazine. This is about as easy as it gets for a wildcat. The advantage to the 25x40 is I think it will fit heavier bullets (over 100 gr.) If I was a wealthy man I could try them all. (may not get much work done but it would be fun) I wish it was that easy....... From the start the 25x40 was designed as a work-around for game management areas that did not allow .22 caliber center-fire cartridges.... It was not by luck or fluke that .25 cal was selected for the project, there was close to a decade of previous testing done on small cases similar to a PPC... There are a lot of BC crunchers here so it was laid out for use up to the more slick 100gr Matchking, although I gravitate more to the 80TTSX as a all-around hunter, currently running over 3,000fps....and that's pretty fast for a slow bullet....usually stay at or under 100gr, point of diminishing return. The smaller case and geometry offer several advantages that I won't get into here but one being that it accelerates the rise to peak pressure allowing smaller charges of powder and achieving the same or better performance of its full-size cousin in shorter barrels.... With a 20" tube? |
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Posted: 6/3/2010 10:59:39 AM
Originally Posted By ronaldmwilliams:
Originally Posted By 762x40mm:
Originally Posted By Graycard:
About the only difference is the 25x40 has the shoulder set back and it is trimmed shorter. The 25-223 is just necked up in the resizing and then trimmed about 2mm to make sure it does not ride to high on the bullet when it is seated to fit into an AR magazine. This is about as easy as it gets for a wildcat. The advantage to the 25x40 is I think it will fit heavier bullets (over 100 gr.) If I was a wealthy man I could try them all. (may not get much work done but it would be fun) I wish it was that easy....... From the start the 25x40 was designed as a work-around for game management areas that did not allow .22 caliber center-fire cartridges.... It was not by luck or fluke that .25 cal was selected for the project, there was close to a decade of previous testing done on small cases similar to a PPC... There are a lot of BC crunchers here so it was laid out for use up to the more slick 100gr Matchking, although I gravitate more to the 80TTSX as a all-around hunter, currently running over 3,000fps....and that's pretty fast for a slow bullet....usually stay at or under 100gr, point of diminishing return. The smaller case and geometry offer several advantages that I won't get into here but one being that it accelerates the rise to peak pressure allowing smaller charges of powder and achieving the same or better performance of its full-size cousin in shorter barrels.... With a 20" tube? 17“ Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 6/3/2010 10:59:58 AM
[Last Edit: 6/3/2010 11:01:08 AM by Altair]
Originally Posted By ronaldmwilliams:
Originally Posted By 762x40mm:
Originally Posted By Graycard:
About the only difference is the 25x40 has the shoulder set back and it is trimmed shorter. The 25-223 is just necked up in the resizing and then trimmed about 2mm to make sure it does not ride to high on the bullet when it is seated to fit into an AR magazine. This is about as easy as it gets for a wildcat. The advantage to the 25x40 is I think it will fit heavier bullets (over 100 gr.) If I was a wealthy man I could try them all. (may not get much work done but it would be fun) I wish it was that easy....... From the start the 25x40 was designed as a work-around for game management areas that did not allow .22 caliber center-fire cartridges.... It was not by luck or fluke that .25 cal was selected for the project, there was close to a decade of previous testing done on small cases similar to a PPC... There are a lot of BC crunchers here so it was laid out for use up to the more slick 100gr Matchking, although I gravitate more to the 80TTSX as a all-around hunter, currently running over 3,000fps....and that's pretty fast for a slow bullet....usually stay at or under 100gr, point of diminishing return. The smaller case and geometry offer several advantages that I won't get into here but one being that it accelerates the rise to peak pressure allowing smaller charges of powder and achieving the same or better performance of its full-size cousin in shorter barrels.... With a 20" tube? In the original thread Kurt cited an 85gr Nosler going 2900 out of a 16", so I bet that is from a 16" as well. ETA: He beat me to it, but I was almost right. |
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Posted: 6/3/2010 11:51:25 AM
Originally Posted By 762x40mm:
Originally Posted By ronaldmwilliams:
Originally Posted By 762x40mm:
Originally Posted By Graycard:
About the only difference is the 25x40 has the shoulder set back and it is trimmed shorter. The 25-223 is just necked up in the resizing and then trimmed about 2mm to make sure it does not ride to high on the bullet when it is seated to fit into an AR magazine. This is about as easy as it gets for a wildcat. The advantage to the 25x40 is I think it will fit heavier bullets (over 100 gr.) If I was a wealthy man I could try them all. (may not get much work done but it would be fun) I wish it was that easy....... From the start the 25x40 was designed as a work-around for game management areas that did not allow .22 caliber center-fire cartridges.... It was not by luck or fluke that .25 cal was selected for the project, there was close to a decade of previous testing done on small cases similar to a PPC... There are a lot of BC crunchers here so it was laid out for use up to the more slick 100gr Matchking, although I gravitate more to the 80TTSX as a all-around hunter, currently running over 3,000fps....and that's pretty fast for a slow bullet....usually stay at or under 100gr, point of diminishing return. The smaller case and geometry offer several advantages that I won't get into here but one being that it accelerates the rise to peak pressure allowing smaller charges of powder and achieving the same or better performance of its full-size cousin in shorter barrels.... With a 20" tube? 17“ Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile So Kurt, will the .25x40 be available? Now that I have my hands on one of your 7.62x40's (I picked it up from 87GN) I'm in the market to fill the gap between the .223 and the 7.62. I think I've got it narrowed to the .25x40 or the 6.5MPC. |
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Posted: 6/3/2010 1:05:13 PM
"I think I've got it narrowed to the .25x40 or the 6.5MPC." I am with you, the 6.5 MPC will be better at longer ranges on deer and hogs(out to 300 yards), but the 25 does not have to be fire formed.
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Posted: 6/3/2010 1:14:33 PM
Originally Posted By 1-Wolverine:
"I think I've got it narrowed to the .25x40 or the 6.5MPC." I am with you, the 6.5 MPC will be better at longer ranges on deer and hogs(out to 300 yards), but the 25 does not have to be fire formed. The 6.5 MPC does not need to be fireformed...The 6.5 AR-TCU does, do to the steeper shoulder angle and less body taper. |
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Posted: 6/3/2010 2:08:03 PM
Originally Posted By 1-Wolverine:
"I think I've got it narrowed to the .25x40 or the 6.5MPC." I am with you, the 6.5 MPC will be better at longer ranges on deer and hogs(out to 300 yards), but the 25 does not have to be fire formed. If you're talking about 300 yard killing envelope, why not use either the 6.5 Grendel or the 6.8x43 (SPCII)? |
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Posted: 6/3/2010 2:32:06 PM
Originally Posted By QuicksilverJPR: I don't know the OPs reasons, but I can think of two off the top of my head. Magazines and Bolts. Originally Posted By 1-Wolverine: "I think I've got it narrowed to the .25x40 or the 6.5MPC." I am with you, the 6.5 MPC will be better at longer ranges on deer and hogs(out to 300 yards), but the 25 does not have to be fire formed. If you're talking about 300 yard killing envelope, why not use either the 6.5 Grendel or the 6.8x43 (SPCII)? |
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Posted: 6/3/2010 3:12:34 PM
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
Originally Posted By QuicksilverJPR:
I don't know the OPs reasons, but I can think of two off the top of my head. Magazines and Bolts.
Originally Posted By 1-Wolverine:
"I think I've got it narrowed to the .25x40 or the 6.5MPC." I am with you, the 6.5 MPC will be better at longer ranges on deer and hogs(out to 300 yards), but the 25 does not have to be fire formed. If you're talking about 300 yard killing envelope, why not use either the 6.5 Grendel or the 6.8x43 (SPCII)? And don't forget brass. With lighter projectiles some of these 223 based wildcats are getting very close to 6.5G and 6.8SPC performance. I'll grant you that they won't match them, especially with heavier bullets like the 123gr 6.5 bullet, but they only require a barrel change and brass is everywhere. That has merit to me. |
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Posted: 6/3/2010 3:44:11 PM
Originally Posted By Dr69er:
Originally Posted By 1-Wolverine:
"I think I've got it narrowed to the .25x40 or the 6.5MPC." I am with you, the 6.5 MPC will be better at longer ranges on deer and hogs(out to 300 yards), but the 25 does not have to be fire formed. The 6.5 MPC does not need to be fireformed...The 6.5 AR-TCU does, do to the steeper shoulder angle and less body taper. so you can just run 223 brass through a 6.5 MPC resizing die and load? |
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Posted: 6/3/2010 3:49:45 PM
The 6.5 & 6.8 both sound interesting to me and I could handle the changing of the bolt and magazines (they are one time cost). It is the cost of brass that kills those two for me. USGI once fired is what makes these wildcats worth the effort.
At the same time, anything past my 150 yd self-imposed limit I'll pick up a .308 Win. |
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Posted: 6/3/2010 3:57:32 PM
[Last Edit: 6/4/2010 8:28:50 AM by ronaldmwilliams]
Originally Posted By 762x40mm:
Originally Posted By ronaldmwilliams:
Originally Posted By 762x40mm:
Originally Posted By Graycard:
About the only difference is the 25x40 has the shoulder set back and it is trimmed shorter. The 25-223 is just necked up in the resizing and then trimmed about 2mm to make sure it does not ride to high on the bullet when it is seated to fit into an AR magazine. This is about as easy as it gets for a wildcat. The advantage to the 25x40 is I think it will fit heavier bullets (over 100 gr.) If I was a wealthy man I could try them all. (may not get much work done but it would be fun) I wish it was that easy....... From the start the 25x40 was designed as a work-around for game management areas that did not allow .22 caliber center-fire cartridges.... It was not by luck or fluke that .25 cal was selected for the project, there was close to a decade of previous testing done on small cases similar to a PPC... There are a lot of BC crunchers here so it was laid out for use up to the more slick 100gr Matchking, although I gravitate more to the 80TTSX as a all-around hunter, currently running over 3,000fps....and that's pretty fast for a slow bullet....usually stay at or under 100gr, point of diminishing return. The smaller case and geometry offer several advantages that I won't get into here but one being that it accelerates the rise to peak pressure allowing smaller charges of powder and achieving the same or better performance of its full-size cousin in shorter barrels.... With a 20" tube? 17“ Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Edited to keep this post on topic |
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Posted: 6/4/2010 8:49:31 PM
This is very interesting, I will be following this. I have thought about a 6.8 for a couple years now, but the cost of the brass has been the primary thing that has held me back. This may be just the thing. Thanks for the info guys.
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Posted: 6/4/2010 9:12:01 PM
[Last Edit: 6/4/2010 9:33:19 PM by Dr69er]
Originally Posted By 1-Wolverine:
Originally Posted By Dr69er:
Originally Posted By 1-Wolverine:
"I think I've got it narrowed to the .25x40 or the 6.5MPC." I am with you, the 6.5 MPC will be better at longer ranges on deer and hogs(out to 300 yards), but the 25 does not have to be fire formed. The 6.5 MPC does not need to be fireformed...The 6.5 AR-TCU does, do to the steeper shoulder angle and less body taper. so you can just run 223 brass through a 6.5 MPC resizing die and load? Yes. The only real PITA is case trimming to length. But thats true for most 223 AR Wildcats. Some guys like to anneal the case as well, for extra case life...I usually buy pre-annealed cases. |
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Posted: 6/4/2010 11:23:24 PM
Originally Posted By Dr69er:
Originally Posted By 1-Wolverine:
Originally Posted By Dr69er:
Originally Posted By 1-Wolverine:
"I think I've got it narrowed to the .25x40 or the 6.5MPC." I am with you, the 6.5 MPC will be better at longer ranges on deer and hogs(out to 300 yards), but the 25 does not have to be fire formed. The 6.5 MPC does not need to be fireformed...The 6.5 AR-TCU does, do to the steeper shoulder angle and less body taper. so you can just run 223 brass through a 6.5 MPC resizing die and load? Yes. The only real PITA is case trimming to length. But thats true for most 223 AR Wildcats. Some guys like to anneal the case as well, for extra case life...I usually buy pre-annealed cases. How much more life do you get from a annealed case?. |
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Posted: 6/5/2010 9:32:04 AM
[Last Edit: 6/5/2010 9:32:38 AM by Dr69er]
Originally Posted By 1-Wolverine:
Originally Posted By Dr69er:
Originally Posted By 1-Wolverine:
Originally Posted By Dr69er:
Originally Posted By 1-Wolverine:
"I think I've got it narrowed to the .25x40 or the 6.5MPC." I am with you, the 6.5 MPC will be better at longer ranges on deer and hogs(out to 300 yards), but the 25 does not have to be fire formed. The 6.5 MPC does not need to be fireformed...The 6.5 AR-TCU does, do to the steeper shoulder angle and less body taper. so you can just run 223 brass through a 6.5 MPC resizing die and load? Yes. The only real PITA is case trimming to length. But thats true for most 223 AR Wildcats. Some guys like to anneal the case as well, for extra case life...I usually buy pre-annealed cases. How much more life do you get from a annealed case?. You will probably get an extra 2-3 case reloads as well as more workability when the case neck and shoulder area has been annealed. |
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Posted: 6/5/2010 11:06:43 AM
Let's not lose track of the most important issue here...how exactly does an individual like myself, who has neither a machine shop nor a gunsmith as a shooting/drinking buddy, procure a barrel with this chambering?
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