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Basic
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Posted: 11/29/2009 11:14:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/2/2009 1:54:14 AM EST by dtwalkerfl]
ATI .410 shotgun upper on my Spikes lower. ATI is importing whole guns and uppers. 20" barrel with 5 rnd mag, full length rifle handguards, "A" post sight. Standard semi-auto shotgun gas system(no gas tube).
When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
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Posted: 11/29/2009 12:23:29 PM EST
No offense, but, all that trouble and expense for 410 slugs?

Whoever double-crosses me and leaves me alive, he understands nothing about Tuco. Nothing!
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Posted: 11/29/2009 4:19:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/2/2009 2:57:05 AM EST by dtwalkerfl]
Originally Posted By dogsplat:
No offense, but, all that trouble and expense for 410 slugs?



The new flash suppressor is an old A2, bored out to .450 and rethreaded, free. The MOE handguards were $29. My .45 can is old and only for slugs on this setup. Without the can it's Buckshot in OOO, 4 and Birdshot.
The lower is for my .458 Socom project.
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Posted: 11/29/2009 4:42:33 PM EST
how does it shoot? how reliable?
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Posted: 11/30/2009 3:59:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/2/2009 1:56:49 AM EST by dtwalkerfl]
Originally Posted By bicho:
how does it shoot? how reliable?


Out of the 3 of us that got them (if we bought 3 we got 500 rnds of slugs free), I'm the only one that hasn't fired it. One said it fired great and smooth with not much recoil at all and no feeding problems. The other had not such good luck. No ignition every other round. So far, may be a firing pin problem. We need more testing.
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Posted: 11/30/2009 4:51:18 AM EST
So thats a 16" barrel? On a shotgun? Doesn't that make it a "Short Barreled Shotgun" class III weapon?

Leagal minimum on shotgun is 18". True, no one would pay much attention to a 16" AR upper, but it would be an NFA weapon none the less.

ATF NFA handbook
NFA 2.1.1 Shotgun: A shotgun is a firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder and designed to use the
energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of
projectiles or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger. A shotgun subject to the NFA has a barrel
or barrels of less than 18 inches in length.

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Posted: 11/30/2009 4:54:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By dtwalkerfl:
ATI .410 shotgun upper on my Spikes lower. ATI is importing whole guns and uppers. 20" barrel with 5 rnd mag, full length rifle handguards, "A" post sight. Standard semi-auto shotgun gas system(no gas tube).
I took 4" off the barrel and rethreaded it for my YHM .45 can (for slugs), Magpul MOE hanguards and a pencil bbl gas block (just to hold on the handguards).
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l16/dtwalkerfl/410/IMGP0390.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l16/dtwalkerfl/410/IMGP0394.jpg

Not trying to rain on your parade, but I see two possible problems here.
1) 20 - 4 = 16. It's a shotgun so unless you've permanently made it 18 w/ the flash suppressor you may have a slight problem...
2) I'd be really careful w/ shotgun slugs in a 45 can. Lots of shotgun slugs have a wad which is separate. Could lead to baffle strikes and / or an obstructed can.

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Posted: 11/30/2009 4:57:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/30/2009 5:01:47 AM EST by RDTCU]
Originally Posted By jhereg:
Not trying to rain on your parade, but I see two possible problems here.
1) 20 - 4 = 16. It's a shotgun so unless you've permanently made it 18 w/ the flash suppressor you may have a slight problem...
2) I'd be really careful w/ shotgun slugs in a 45 can. Lots of shotgun slugs have a wad which is separate. Could lead to baffle strikes and / or an obstructed can.



Well i see a detached flash hider, soooo...
Looks like someone didn't do their homework and should be taking down some pictures now...
(edited for emphasis)

It really is a gray area though, since the lower (the 'firearm') IS technically a rifle... but it shoots shotgun shells...
but i sure as heck wouldn't be testing those waters by posting pictures on the internet...
and it's obviously not a registered SBS, since the lower is for his .458 project so he says...
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Posted: 11/30/2009 6:55:28 AM EST
Ah but what about the question:

IF you had a registered SBR lower, could you put an short shotgun upper on it??? I have an SBR lower, and a 12" shotgun upper would be a useful tool. Or would you have to re-register the lower as both an SBS and an SBR??

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Posted: 11/30/2009 8:04:08 AM EST
It's on a registered SBR lower as "Multi" caliber. Sounds good to me!
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Posted: 11/30/2009 8:12:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/30/2009 8:14:19 AM EST by RDTCU]
well it IS technically a shotgun though... in that it is intended to fire only shotgun ammunition and has a smooth bore, does it not?
Did you ask the appropriate people before assuming that a SBR reciever also worked as a SBS receiver with no additional clarification?
Just asking, if it's all legit then i say go for it. As long as the barrel is long enough to get the dwell you need. You may have to open the gas port/ports if it won't cycle reliably... Auto shotguns are sensitive to dwell...
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Posted: 11/30/2009 8:18:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/2/2009 2:58:54 AM EST by dtwalkerfl]
I know I will have to do some testing to get it to run. Hopefully it will work. We will see.
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Posted: 11/30/2009 8:29:00 AM EST
I wouldn't trust that. I'm not an expert in the field of NFA subtleties of that sort, but it generally pays to look at the way BATFE could screw you the most and avoid the situtations. If I was going to run a < 18" shotgun barrel on an AR15, I'd get a separate lower and SBS it to make sure. I can't see trying to save a few $$ shen the consequences are as severe as they are for not paying the tax.
Originally Posted By dtwalkerfl:
It's on a registered SBR lower as "Multi" caliber. Sounds good to me!


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Posted: 11/30/2009 8:42:42 AM EST
i guess its not much different than a pistol that shoots shotgun shells like the Judge or one of them Bonded Arms derringers. My stepfather has a double barreld rifle. One barrel chambered in 223, the other in 12ga. Its the weirdest setup I have ever seen. But I believe it was 16" long too but its been years since I saw it.
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Posted: 11/30/2009 8:44:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By ander254:
i guess its not much different than a pistol that shoots shotgun shells like the Judge or one of them Bonded Arms derringers. My stepfather has a double barreld rifle. One barrel chambered in 223, the other in 12ga. Its the weirdest setup I have ever seen. But I believe it was 16" long too but its been years since I saw it.

The Judge, Contender pistols, and all the derringers I've seen get around it by having some rifling and technically being chambered in 45 Colt. The combo guns (at least all the ones I've seen ) have 18" barrels, but because the receiver is so short they don't seem that long.

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Posted: 11/30/2009 9:08:59 AM EST
Originally Posted By jhereg:
The Judge, Contender pistols, and all the derringers I've seen get around it by having some rifling and technically being chambered in 45 Colt. The combo guns (at least all the ones I've seen ) have 18" barrels, but because the receiver is so short they don't seem that long.



This exactly.
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Posted: 12/1/2009 3:06:22 PM EST
OP, Chew on this for a minute....



We're not trying to harass you or anything, but you should take notice of some friendly advice when the consequences are as significant as they are for what you are doing... we're trying to be helpful because we don't want you to end up like several other gun enthusiasts who can never own another firearm again. If I were you, I'd be pulling pictures right about now...
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Posted: 12/1/2009 7:42:53 PM EST
i guess that letter says it all then
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Posted: 12/2/2009 1:57:48 AM EST
Great! Another $200 stamp.
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Posted: 12/2/2009 3:50:15 AM EST
Are you dis-assembling in the mean time?
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