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Posted: 10/16/2010 9:12:46 PM EDT
[#1]
"Rogers", like Rogers Rangers. |
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Posted: 10/16/2010 9:26:52 PM EDT
[#2]
P53 he says it has 31165 rounds through it and only cleaned once - at 26245.
Then on P54 he says it was cleaned at 28905. Also on P54 he says it was "field cleaned" at 24450. Anda bolt wiped a 6450. And parts replaced at various times. Article needed better editing to remove these inconsistencies. |
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Posted: 10/17/2010 5:19:30 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
P53 he says it has 31165 rounds through it and only cleaned once - at 26245. Then on P54 he says it was cleaned at 28905. Also on P54 he says it was "field cleaned" at 24450. Anda bolt wiped a 6450. And parts replaced at various times. Article needed better editing to remove these inconsistencies. Fixed the Pat Rogers spelling. I took it as a general observation article and not a technical study (nothing about failures either), but yes, it could use some editing to clear those up. I still think it's an impressive run for a range gun and thought his observations about the design and maintenance were worth reading. |
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Posted: 10/17/2010 5:24:27 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
P53 he says it has 31165 rounds through it and only cleaned once - at 26245. Then on P54 he says it was cleaned at 28905. Also on P54 he says it was "field cleaned" at 24450. Anda bolt wiped a 6450. And parts replaced at various times. Article needed better editing to remove these inconsistencies. True indeed. However, I thing the cleaning myths have been put to rest by Pat and for that, I thank him. |
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Posted: 10/17/2010 6:14:11 AM EDT
[#5]
I take it like any other gun rag, they're in bed together. They have quite a conflict of interest, an independent test would be trustworthy. Not the guy that's stumping your rifles. Not to take away from BCM, they are second to none.
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Posted: 10/17/2010 9:27:30 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
I take it like any other gun rag, they're in bed together. They have quite a conflict of interest, an independent test would be trustworthy. Not the guy that's stumping your rifles. Not to take away from BCM, they are second to none. 
Pat Rogers and Jeff Carpenter are not trust worthy? What exactly is the conflict of interest here? The EAG 14.5" middy that JUST came out? The 03Design chest rig? I for one just bought a 16" middy because of this article and the write up on 03designs. |
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Posted: 10/17/2010 9:36:19 AM EDT
[#7]
The fanaticism surrounding cleaning has not gone anywhere. Some people will always go to the range, fire 10 rounds and then go home and clean.
The opposite is true where people will run guns without cleaning for thousands upon thousands of rounds. Ultimately, what this comes down to is an acceptance from both camps. Dont tell me to clean my rifle and i wont tell you not to clean yours. Having said that, i wipe my rifle down and lube it, nothing more. Once every couple of thousand rounds ill run a boresnake down the barrel but thats it. |
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Posted: 10/17/2010 9:45:38 AM EDT
[#8]
Someone here ran 10k rounds of Wolf through a Model1 upper. Not to denigrate BCM but I did not follow the logic between the quality of the rifle being linked to how long it would run without being cleaned.
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Posted: 10/17/2010 10:47:29 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Someone here ran 10k rounds of Wolf through a Model1 upper. Not to denigrate BCM but I did not follow the logic between the quality of the rifle being linked to how long it would run without being cleaned. We all know the wars over cleaning, failures, and "what's the most reliable" move closer to a religeous argument in the end (kind of like political arguments that move towards calling everybody a Nazi in the end). I just thought this was a good article on how much abuse a BCM was able to take and still run very well. It's promoted by BCM on their web site, it's kind of an ad for their quality (which I think everybody agrees with), but it was never meant to replicate the Aberdeen Dust Test or any other controlled experiment. Just a nice write-up on a rifle that is running very well with little in the way of maintenance. Since I already have a 16 in middy, I take it as more of a reason to buy some Slip 2000 (I've only used WD40 and Break Free before). |
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Posted: 10/17/2010 12:48:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
P53 he says it has 31165 rounds through it and only cleaned once - at 26245. Then on P54 he says it was cleaned at 28905. Also on P54 he says it was "field cleaned" at 24450. Anda bolt wiped a 6450. And parts replaced at various times. Article needed better editing to remove these inconsistencies. True indeed. However, I thing the cleaning myths have been put to rest by Pat and for that, I thank him. The cleaning myths were put to rest before this article, but yes, folks will still choose to white glove clean & folks will still choose not clean or lube when needed. |
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Posted: 10/17/2010 6:02:58 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Someone here ran 10k rounds of Wolf through a Model1 upper. Not to denigrate BCM but I did not follow the logic between the quality of the rifle being linked to how long it would run without being cleaned. Take 10 Model 1 uppers and 10 BCM uppers and run 10,000 rounds of "whatever" ammo through each of them, with no cleaning. I'd be willing to wager that the results would speak for themselves ... and be in BCM's favor by a very wide margin. |
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Posted: 10/17/2010 7:16:12 PM EDT
[#12]
In my humble experience, lubing trumps cleaning even on suppressed guns...... I apply some GunButter before most sessions, and I guess that eventually I'll clean whenever I get bored sometime; DiamondBlack-coated BCG's sure don't hurt.
 Now that I think about it more, applying the GB actually is a form of cleaning since alot of the crap comes off by simply handling the components.
I agree that glamorized mainstream rag articles are worth about as much as the paper that they are printed on, regardless of the author. |
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Posted: 10/17/2010 7:31:58 PM EDT
[#13]
I once bought a Galil because Chuck Taylor told me they were massively better than ARs.
 Man Chuck hated 5.56. |
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Posted: 10/18/2010 12:36:54 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: I'm sure if you took a 100 (or 1000 or whatever of each you would see a much higher failure rate with Model 1, however I question whether that failure rate would change if you cleaned some and did not clean othersQuoted: Someone here ran 10k rounds of Wolf through a Model1 upper. Not to denigrate BCM but I did not follow the logic between the quality of the rifle being linked to how long it would run without being cleaned. Take 10 Model 1 uppers and 10 BCM uppers and run 10,000 rounds of "whatever" ammo through each of them, with no cleaning. I'd be willing to wager that the results would speak for themselves ... and be in BCM's favor by a very wide margin. |
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Posted: 10/18/2010 6:58:16 AM EDT
[#15]
I am starting to think that BCM is the new colt Kool-Aid.
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Posted: 10/18/2010 7:06:42 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: I am starting to think that BCM is the new colt Kool-Aid. It's the Gen II Kool-Aid - now with more customer service, more customer response, and less cost. |
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Posted: 10/18/2010 7:08:42 AM EDT
[#17]
I'd agree with the kool aid comments if BCM adn spikes weren't so damn affordable.
not kool aid, IMO. just good quality at bargain pricing. |
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Posted: 10/18/2010 8:05:25 AM EDT
[#18]
A guy I work gun shows with has one of the free BCM hats.
Its a tan hat with BCM in green letters. Just a plain hat, no frills. A guy was ranting and raving about how cool the hat was. He then tries to buy the hat from my friend. Hearing that made me go all 
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Posted: 10/20/2010 4:10:39 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I am starting to think that BCM is the new colt Kool-Aid. It's the Gen II Kool-Aid - now with more customer service, more customer response, and less cost. Don't see how it's Kool-aid if it's obviously not overpriced. Looking at other options, it's not like you can't say you're getting your money's worth. Bravo Co worked very hard for a very long time to bring this stuff to market, and to do it in a very specific manner with specific features and at an attractive price. They did it back when Colt was pretty much the only game in town for that list. They deserve a lot of credit for that. |
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Posted: 10/20/2010 4:28:09 PM EDT
[#20]
Please knock off the Kool aid comments
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