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Hello All!
Thanks for the great information. I think you've helped me pick my first lower! There can be a lot of information to take in, but this visual guide and the follow-up posts have been awesome! Thanks, Paul |
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For those wanting to read about RRA vs. Superior Arms vs. Anvil Arms...Here is my take on it:
That would be Superior Arms. I have one. I have to say that the stock trigger when using the superior arms lower adjustment screw is not quite as good as my RRA National Match trigger that came in my RRA lower but it is a big improvement over the standard trigger that comes pretty close to the NM RRA trigger for a lot less money. You can simply back the screw out as well so it fits flush if you latter decide to add a match trigger. I posted pics in the lower thread and also started a thread specificaly for them the other day. That said, I do have a few very nice Anvil Arms lowers that I also posted pics of. Anvil Arms is very consitent with their quality. The Superior Arms lowers seem to be hit or miss. I looked at four Superior Arms units and picked the best one out of the bunch. Two I wouldn't touch due to the placement of some of the take down pin holes, one would have been ok but didn't seem as good as the one I went with. Anvil Arms coats their lowers in Norrels(I can't recall if that's the right spelling right now or not), which is a more durable DuraCoat kind of finish and then they do the laser engraving. Anvil will coat and laser any lower you send them for a fee, just send Jon an email. The exterior finish and smoothing machine work on the Superior Arms unit was very consistent with my RRA AR. The Anvil Arms/Double Star/DPMS/Olympic and others leave a lot of the ridges on the front and rear of the reciever, where Superior Arms and RRA do not. That's one feature of the Superior Arms I like that Anvil doesn't have. The roll marks on the Superior Arms units were the one place I have an issue with. They aren't to deep, infact some are shallow enough that if I were considering painting the entire rifle, I'd be worried the ATF would think I was trying to conceal the serial numbers. Amazing enough, the RRA AR I have seems to have similar depth roll marks. The roll marks on the Anvil Arms unit are very clear and have a nice depth to them. Some people also reported that the Superior Arms lowers had issues with PMAGs not easily going in and out. Mine has no issues at all with all of the PMAGs I have but it might not hurt to test fit one in the lower you purchase. None of the Anvil Arms units I purchased had a problems with the PMAGs. The above said, I think Superior Arms may have changed things up a tad and that the lower I purchased may have been some older stock that DelTon had when I purchased at the local gun show. Their website shows pics of lowers that look to be more consistent with Anvil Arms. The roll mark depth on the units pictured on their website look to be the same depth as Anvil's for example. I posted a lot of Anvil Arms Lower pics as well as Superior Arms lower pics last week...Take a look here: Anvil Arms Pics Superior Arms Pics For what it's worth, I sent two emails to Superior Arms asking how to set the adjustment for the trigger and never heard back. I got the answer on the message board and posted it in the build it yourself how to build your own lower/upper/etc thread if you need to check. On the other hand, see this thread for my thoughts on working with Jon: Anvil Arms vs. Spikes Tactical Good luck. Wes |
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No love for Armalite? They produced the 308 version way before anyone else offered them to the public. Knights should make the list also. |
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Never underestimate the depths of human stupidity.
I love my country-I just hate the stupid people in it. |
TFFR
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"Isn't if funny how in this day of high-tech, balls to the wall society everything will grind to sudden screeching stop when one can't dispose of shit?"
- AZMAN-1 |
I spoke with Ed from Gunsmoke Enterprises yesterday at a local show here in Florida. Currently, their lowers are being manufactured by LAR.
I just bought my first lower yesterday from Gunsmoke and am looking forward to building it up, so I figured I would throw in my two cents. Picked it up for $100 out the door. Thanks for the great thread! |
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We do not release the name of any of the suppliers we get any of our parts from. Not to anybody. Anybody that claims they know is at best guessing. Our position is that we use the very best suppliers we can find and we use the very best specifications available. We always have and we always will. Period. No one at Gunsmoke has anything to do with our company, and they never have had. Any speculation on their part as to who our suppliers are is exactly that, speculation and nothing more. Most customers would be surprised to learn that none of the 4 largest AR manufacturers in the world actually make their own upper or lower receivers, fire control parts or bolt carrier assemblies. Only one of the 4 makes their own barrels. It is all contracted to specialty houses. They do not release the names of their sub-contractors, we are no different. It all comes down to what house you use, what specifications you contract for and how stringent you are that they follow the specifications during your quality control inspection of incoming parts. Our quality speaks for itself. This will be fully evident to anybody that searches this (and many other) Internet boards. Customers really like our stuff and highly recommend it, even after extended hard use. We have LEO's using our full auto and 3 round bust guns on their SWAT team and have requisitioned more. As I said, that speaks for itself. Jon Kruger President, Anvil Arms LLC Lakeland, FL. 863-398-4460 Proud ARFCOM Industry Partner Lifetime NRA Member Email: [email protected] www.AnvilArms.com |
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Anvil Arms LLC
Type 07 FFL (Manufacturer) SOT Class III Sales and Transfers Lakeland, FL. |
My apologies Jon, It was not my intention to offend. I removed my comment from my previous thread. I saw that someone had asked in an earlier post about Anvil and that was the information I had been supplied with. Obviously, I was mis-informed and for that I apologize, my intention was strictly to try to add information in the thread.
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I'm not offended (or upset) at all and there is no need to apologize, but I thank you for doing so! My post was meant simply to keep the record straight and consistent. As a company our policy is to be honest and straightforward at all times. Stop by at one of the shows we do and say hi! There is a link to our schedule in my signature line. Jon Kruger President, Anvil Arms LLC Lakeland, FL. 863-398-4460 Proud ARFCOM Industry Partner Lifetime NRA Member Email: [email protected] www.AnvilArms.com |
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Anvil Arms LLC
Type 07 FFL (Manufacturer) SOT Class III Sales and Transfers Lakeland, FL. |
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Thanks for the info.
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tag
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BRONZ
You never have trouble if you are prepared for it. T. Roosevelt |
Is there any info on what companies lowers colors match each other????
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The past actually happened but history is only what someone wrote down.
"I'm just an old killer hired to do some wet work" |
Sabre machines their own uppers and lowers and many other parts. We also produce lowers for several other companies, but I cannot mention their names due to non-disclosure agreements. Michael Curlett Director of Commercial Operations Sabre Defence Industries |
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You should be aware that today I saw Gunsmoke Enterprises at the Ft. Lauderdale show. I had never seen their product so I checked them out. I eventually asked the salesperson (whom another had identified as the person who makes the lowers and uppers.. As..ED..) who made their lowers? He (Ed) stated that they were LAR lowers. I find that interesting due to the fact that on their website they clearly state that lowers and uppers are made on the same CNC machine in their factory. Either way the impression I was left with was that they were cheaply made and you get what you pay for. Along with that the table was full of knock off copies of Eotech's, weapon lights and airsoft accessories. While their product may send a round down range, I know my LMT will hit the exact spot I target repeatedly. |
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Attention Team Member "apcapt" and all,
Sir, You have quoted a post that was made me myself, (Jon Kruger, President of Anvil Arms) and then you proceeded to speak about another company, (Gunsmoke) that has nothing what so ever to do with my company. I am confused as to why you would post negative information about one company after quoting information posted by another company? Anvil Arms has never had airsoft accessories, or knock off Aimpoint or EOTech type optics. For that matter we have never had any knock off items. I would like to make it very clear that Anvil Arms has never had anything to do with Gunsmoke Enterprises and we never will. They are a completely different company than us, just as Ford and Chevrolet are different companies. I have no idea what their company policies are, who they get their parts from and to be honest, I really do not care. I do however care when somebody makes a post that clearly has my company name all over it and then says negative things about another company. The causal reader might not realize that the two companies are not in any way connected and may just assume that the negative comments are directed at us. Again, I would like to make it very clear that Anvil Arms has never had anything to do with Gunsmoke Enterprises and we never will. Jon Kruger President, Anvil Arms LLC Lakeland, FL. 863-398-4460 Proud ARFCOM Industry Partner Lifetime NRA Member Email: [email protected] www.AnvilArms.com
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Anvil Arms LLC
Type 07 FFL (Manufacturer) SOT Class III Sales and Transfers Lakeland, FL. |
Thanks for all the work on this great thread. I am new to AR's and am ordering a Stag stripped lower and plan to complete it with a DPMS parts kit. I also am thinking of getting an additional stripped lower by Anvil Arms after reading some good things about their lowers. Your info has been very helpful....<><....:)
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sorry, double post....<><....:)
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Just to Clear things up, Mega Never made Any lowers for us.
We have always used LAR "which we still use", and now API as well. |
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Here's some pics of the SOCOM Diamond (custom cut billet receiver) / first run / silver
The two holes in the trigger guard are for access to a screw on both sides of the trigger for a built in trigger pull adjustment. There is also a screw on the lower part of the receiver between the pistol grip and the stock that takes up any slack between the upper and lower receiver. Anymore information about them would be appreciated. They did eventually make an upper to match the lower. click on the photobucket link to see 21 more pics s301.photobucket.com/albums/nn73/jgufer If you know where I can find a SOCOM Diamond upper receiver please contact me. I found the web description but this one doesn't have any pictures |
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LAR had been making GSE's Lowers for the past year and a half, not Mega. |
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Colt doesn't machine their own lowers in-house? That is quite interesting.
In both volumes of THE BLACK RIFLE, there is plenty of documentation and clear photos of receivers and barrels being machined at the Colt factory. The photos of the lower receivers are quite telling and done 24 at a time using million dollar CNC equipment. The raw forged blanks have been supplied by various manufactures over time but Colt has always machined upper and lower receivers in one of their various factories. Same with the barrels. Chrome plating the bore of a 22 cal. and achieving uniform thickness has never been easy. Just ask the boys at FNUSA what happened in 1986. As for other pieces made at Colt....I thought it was well known that Colt has always machined these 10 critical parts of the rifle. upper lower barrel bolt bolt carrier hammer trigger safety/selector switch disconnecter GI auto sear for M16's Most other parts were designed and made in-house for periods, approved, and later farmed out, BUT... those 10 parts most important in the finished product are made in-house by Colt. After 25 years of building, using, and selling AR's and M16's from almost every manufacture, I've seen variations in quality from all. No manufacturer including Colt (especially those rifles released around the 1994 AWB...GOOD GRIEF!! ) is immune. With the better companies, though, it is very rare. |
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people who mill for other companies don't advertise that they make parts for other companies because:
1) they made a product that cost more then their current (selling) product thus having a better product that they are producing for said company. 2) they are making a cheaper product then their current (selling) product thus having a worse product that they are producing for said company. Now either way you look at it. Any millers do not want to say they make certain parts because its going to damage their reputation one way or not. So given this. I would say just pick a company you like, and buy with confidence. |
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And who make Armalite?
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Somebody put Noveske on the LAR List. Noveske gets lowers from LAR and CMT/STAG.
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High or Low Shelf AR Receivers. Who Makes What?
This is a list of companies showing who makes high shelf and who makes low shelf AR-15 lower receivers. This is in reference to RDIAS compatibility. RDIAS is Registered Drop In Auto Sear. A RDIAS can be found for much less than a registered M-16 or other AR-15 compatible registered select fire lower receiver. Here is a link that goes in to depth on the RDIAS- www.quarterbore.com/nfa/dias.html Green = Low shelf: DIAS compatible, shelf behind safety on inside of the receiver is 16mm deep from top of receiver Red = High Shelf: Not DIAS compatible, shelf behind safety on inside of receiver is 14mm deep from top of receiver Aero Precision - high shelf /low shelf Ameetec - low shelf Anvil Arms - low shelf Armalite - high shelf Bushmaster - low shelf Charles Daly - low shelf CMMG - low shelf CMT - high shelf Colt - high shelf also receiver block Double Star - low shelf DPMS - low shelf DSA - high shelf DTI (Del-Ton) - low shelf Essential Arms - high shelf /low shelf Fulton Armory - low shelf LAR - low shelf LMT - high shelf LRB/JV Precision - low shelf Mega - low shelf Olympic Arms - high shelf Rock River Arms - high shelf Smith & Wesson - high shelf Spike's Tactical - Bullet Selector Markings = high shelf –– Fire/Safe Selector Markings = low shelf Stag - high shelf Sun Devil - low shelf Superior Arms - low shelf This is the information I have so far. Please feel free to voice any corrections and continue to add to this list (please use the email function as I have no way of knowing if you posted or PM'd me since the board seems to have no notification.) Maybe this should have it's own tack? |
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WOW Fantastic post... Thanks!
Regardless of who is milling what, why not carefully just inspect the lower or weapon you are going to buy at your local FFL dealer... so you can get something of the quality/features/marks you want. If you have been exposed to most any kind of manufacturing business it is easy to understand why any company wont say who mills their receivers... It is not public info! Likewise as a machining company/supplier a NDA precludes you from saying who you make parts for... It is the world we live in... and while I love the post and it brings to light something I will look at more closely when I pick up my next AR. I am not overly concerned who milled it or who's logo is on it. Does it look the way I want more importantly does it function properly!!! Excellent work on the post, everyone! |
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I just bought a SNS Idustries lower and I am very impressed. I have owned LMT, Bushmaster, Colt, Noveske and now SNS. Noveske and SNS in my opinion are the cleanist of all lowers mentioned in my post. I cannot find any tool marks on the SNS lower. Does anyone know who makes SNS Industries lowers? I think it may be CMT but I am not sure.
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So who makes the best lower?
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Les Baer!!! |
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I have some new noveske lowers, and they dont look like those LAR lowers.ill take pics if you want.
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Got a Mega upper and lower and I must say the fit is excellant. Finish is superb.
It all went together great. Upper and lower are nice and snug. Very pleased with Mega |
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Huh? what? OK honey, I'll do it later.
I opened this thread an hour ago, fainted hit my head and now Im awake again but drooling all over the place. "kalahnikid" |
that is some good info thanks
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Somebody explain this please:
It says that MMS makes POF forged lowers, but all three gen's of lowers and complete rifles listed in this thread and on POF's website are listed as billet. What POF forged lowers exist, are they an old item? Also, what are the advantages and disadvantages of billet vs forged? Does a billet lower require a specific quality of anodizing to be as good as it can be, and who meets that level? Thanks in advance! |
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I am fairly new to the AR world. I would like to know where the best place to get a fair quality Lower at the lowest price to start some builds with. I plan to build a 6.5 grendel to hunt deer and yotes with and maybe a 204. Any info would be great.
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Originally Posted By thumper440:
I am fairly new to the AR world. I would like to know where the best place to get a fair quality Lower at the lowest price to start some builds with. I plan to build a 6.5 grendel to hunt deer and yotes with and maybe a 204. Any info would be great. I'm waiting on a Spike's Tactical, and some Anvil Arms stripped lowers. The Spike's isn't gonna be super cheap with shipping, plus I paid to get the Safe/Fire marks color-filled, but all together plus $10 transfer fee, makes $150 I think, but that's stripped. ETA: I just checked the website and they've gone from $115 to $179!! Sooo..... yeah. Glad I ordered when I did. I've heard good things about Anvil Arms and they're definitely priced well and a great value if the quality is on par with the reputation. With transfer that should be about $123 transferred. I'll let you know how they look when I get them. I think, offhand, that Anvil will be a great deal for a top quality complete lower. They are supposed to have some really good quality control and sourcing. Plus they offer a lifetime warranty on all their stuff. From reading the industry board, I'd say Jon (the owner) stands behind it, too. |
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Originally Posted By ramcdaniel1:
High or Low Shelf AR Receivers. Who Makes What? My LMT has a high shelf. |
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If a doctor says you're going to feel some pressure, buckle up! -Brian Regan
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I'm waiting on a Spike's Tactical, and some Anvil Arms stripped lowers. The Spike's isn't gonna be super cheap with shipETA: I just checked the website and they've gone from $115 to $179!! Sooo..... yeah. Glad I ordered when I did. That absolutely guarantee's I will NEVER buy another thing from those price gouging scumbags. Jacking a price like that places them on the same scale as the Anti-Gunners to me. |
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So when it say JVP mills for LRB and Doublestar does that mean that they are the same receiver with the only difference being the finish each company applies?
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Any info on Aero Precision lowers?
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What are the advatages, if any, of a billet lower vs. a forged lower?
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Originally Posted By sleepdr:
Originally Posted By ramcdaniel1:
High or Low Shelf AR Receivers. Who Makes What? My LMT has a high shelf. Thank you sir. Noted it above on the list. |
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tag.
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History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people.
~Martin Luther King, Jr. |
Originally Posted By perfectscore:
What are the advatages, if any, of a billet lower vs. a forged lower? My understanding is that billet receivers are generally more "true"; i.e. more square, level, plumb, whatever ... more precisely made, which is important when accuracy is paramount. OTO, forged stuff is generally considered to be somewhat stronger. Therefore, IMHO a billet upper may be desirable if someone is interested in building a high performance / "exceptional precision" rig, but as far as lowers go ... I don't really see the benefit vs. the extra cost that comes with the higher price tag of billet. |
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Poznai Sebia ... Know Yourself
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I have several Double Stars, BM, and RRA lowers. All are very nice. Especially for fit and finish the RRAs are prob. my favorite. But overall my Favorite is the Sun Devils. Man they are hot. To me the billets are worth the money for little things like the the big magwell. My $.02
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Why don't you see much written about Essential Arms lowers and uppers?
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LRB is a low shelf
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