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Posted: 7/27/2017 3:37:19 PM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 7/27/2017 4:12:31 PM EDT
[#2]
There's a member here who runs one of those full-auto ranges. He's posted good stuff about which parts break, but I don't know if they've tried fancy bolts, or if they just replace regular ones as they crack.
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Posted: 7/27/2017 4:13:14 PM EDT
[#3]
LMT Enhanced or the superbolt if by toughest you mean strongest. If you're asking about the toughest coating then I don't have an opinion.
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Posted: 7/27/2017 4:21:30 PM EDT
[#4]
Define tough.
Lotta bolts out there run for a long time. |
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Posted: 7/27/2017 5:00:25 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LMT Enhanced or the superbolt if by toughest you mean strongest. If you're asking about the toughest coating then I don't have an opinion. |
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Posted: 7/27/2017 5:00:44 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryI was searching for the bolt only, instead of the entire BCG assembly. I have to use the proprietary carrier for my echo trigger.
To answer others, yes, I'm asking about the bolt itself, rather than the coating. I was hoping there would be comparisons to the relia-bolt, or mentions of other similar products. I didn't want to bring up any particular products because I like to see where the thread goes without my own input biasing the replies. |
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Posted: 7/27/2017 5:05:23 PM EDT
[#7]
Kac if you wanna go that route, if not, like mentioned earlier lmt enhanced. The lobster tail dual spring extractor and being aeromet 100 is supposably a plus.
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Posted: 7/27/2017 5:11:33 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Kac if you wanna go that route, if not, like mentioned earlier lmt enhanced. The lobster tail dual spring extractor and being aeromet 100 is supposably a plus. But let's face it, most of us do not fire enough volume to identify the minute differences in BCG toughness. If you go with a reputable manufacturer you're going to be shooting far more in ammo $ that would cover a replacement bolt in the event it fails. |
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Posted: 7/27/2017 5:52:46 PM EDT
[#9]
We use the the one on top in our C7s and C8s, and sometimes in automatic. They seem to hold up and I don't often hear of one breaking. Picked up a surplus one for about $190 CAD |
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Posted: 7/27/2017 8:27:34 PM EDT
[#10]
If we don't consider the KAC E3 since its proprietary, I'd say the LMT E-bolt which shares a lot of the same features as the KAC. Toughest milspec bolt would be Colt based on Ron from BFLV's testimony.
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Posted: 7/28/2017 2:01:09 AM EDT
[#11]
Bolts are cheap. Just get one from a known company and you will be fine. Colt, PSA, BCM, FN, Spikes, AIM are all GTG.
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Posted: 7/28/2017 7:01:08 AM EDT
[#12]
Check out Henderson's High round count AR thread her.
Colt, TC, and PSA are my go to choices. LMT is praiseworthy also, though I have not tried them. |
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Posted: 7/28/2017 8:12:16 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bolts are cheap. Just get one from a known company and you will be fine. Colt, PSA, BCM, FN, Spikes, AIM are all GTG. Especially if I should ever find myself in a situation (god forbid) where I really need my gun, and don't have time to change out parts that may, or may not headspace properly. |
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Posted: 7/28/2017 8:34:01 AM EDT
[#14]
As others had already stated, LMT Enhanced Bolt is the strongest standard specification bolt out there.
The KAC E3 bolt is also considered the strongest, however, it is proprietary |
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Posted: 7/28/2017 8:50:41 AM EDT
[#15]
There's data that suggest the HPT tested bolts fail much quicker. they crack at the cam pin hole
linky about a BCM bolt |
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Posted: 7/28/2017 9:41:52 AM EDT
[#16]
A standard bolt.
Seriously, it'll outlive the barrel. Replace the bolt and barrel at the same time for headspacing reasons. You're looking at anywhere from 12,000-20,000 on a standard bolt, Henderson often sees 40,000+ on their bolts fire in nothing but auto. |
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Posted: 7/28/2017 10:31:25 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I prefer to shoot my gun, rather than change parts on it. Especially if I should ever find myself in a situation (god forbid) where I really need my gun, and don't have time to change out parts that may, or may not headspace properly. Or, buy a SR15 and replace the bolt every 20,000+ |
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Posted: 7/28/2017 10:51:29 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I prefer to shoot my gun, rather than change parts on it. Especially if I should ever find myself in a situation (god forbid) where I really need my gun, and don't have time to change out parts that may, or may not headspace properly. |
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Posted: 7/28/2017 11:25:06 AM EDT
[#19]
LMT or Colt.
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Posted: 7/28/2017 5:29:19 PM EDT
[#20]
knights armament if you want a sr15
toolcraft/lmt/bcm/colt if not. I have a PSA bolt thats at around 4k rds with no cleaning, just lube every 750 or so and its going fine. |
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Posted: 7/28/2017 7:03:24 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There's data that suggest the HPT tested bolts fail much quicker. they crack at the cam pin hole linky about a BCM bolt Yeah, the break around the cam pin hole, and shearing lugs is a concern of mine. I'm content to just make the AR work for me by running the best parts I can afford in an effort to minimize likelihood of failure, and not contribute to marketplace tolerance of inferior goods. If we all did that, material science would move forward faster. This is especially important when pushing the limits of the original design by shortening the barrel to 7". We didn't get to where we are today to by saying the original m16 was "eh, good enough". Fuck no. We made mountains out of molehills, because we're Americans goddammit. 'murica 
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Posted: 7/28/2017 7:31:29 PM EDT
[#22]
NP3® PLUS Relia-Bolt (Enhanced Bolt Plus)
http://store.srcarms.com/SRC-NP3-PLUS-Relia-Bolt-p/reliaboltplus.htm |
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Posted: 7/28/2017 7:48:15 PM EDT
[#23]
I know some will say it's just bling but I love my Toolcraft with Cryptic coating. I have never really had a problem with any but the CC really doe's just wipe off.
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Posted: 7/28/2017 10:55:28 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
NP3® PLUS Relia-Bolt (Enhanced Bolt Plus) http://store.srcarms.com/SRC-NP3-PLUS-Relia-Bolt-p/reliaboltplus.htm |
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Posted: 7/28/2017 11:14:22 PM EDT
[#25]
The likelihood of your bolt breaking prematurely, if it is made well, by a reputable manufacturer... Is very low.
As was said, after 20k rounds, its time to replace the barrel and bolt at the same time. As the barrel is likely worn out, and its always best practice to change the bolt and barrel together. In fact, due to the random nature of things, inside 20k rounds, any quality bolt, even the super duper enhanced bolts made with unobtainium... have a slight chance to break... And all about equal in that slight chance as well. Now that unobtainium bolt may last longer than 20k rounds, but the barrel probably won't... And as was said, best practice, swap the bolt with the barrel. So you can spend $150 on a quality BCG from a good manufacturer, or you can spend $300+ on the fancy enhanced BCG... And get the same performance and change them out at the same time regardless. So you are spending more money on a placebo for the most part... As any performance differences don't matter if you follow maintenance schedules. Also the echo trigger is in Gen 2, with a redesigned lever that works with a standard carrier... I believe you can contact them and get that new lever, and use it in the gen 1 triggers. |
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Posted: 7/29/2017 12:09:56 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
I'm surprised this hasn't been covered at length. I searched several different terms before I gave up. So, who makes the toughest bolt for AR-15? why the hell does it matter? I can almost guarantee you aren't going to run your shit hard enough to break a bolt. |
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Posted: 7/29/2017 12:15:27 AM EDT
[#27]
LMT enhanced bolt.
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Posted: 7/29/2017 12:36:43 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LMT enhanced bolt. |
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Posted: 7/29/2017 12:43:19 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought these were trash? I remember reading about them breaking after just a few thousand rounds. seems like another solution in search of a product type deal. |
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Posted: 7/29/2017 6:55:58 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The likelihood of your bolt breaking prematurely, if it is made well, by a reputable manufacturer... Is very low. As was said, after 20k rounds, its time to replace the barrel and bolt at the same time. As the barrel is likely worn out, and its always best practice to change the bolt and barrel together. In fact, due to the random nature of things, inside 20k rounds, any quality bolt, even the super duper enhanced bolts made with unobtainium... have a slight chance to break... And all about equal in that slight chance as well. Now that unobtainium bolt may last longer than 20k rounds, but the barrel probably won't... And as was said, best practice, swap the bolt with the barrel. So you can spend $150 on a quality BCG from a good manufacturer, or you can spend $300+ on the fancy enhanced BCG... And get the same performance and change them out at the same time regardless. So you are spending more money on a placebo for the most part... As any performance differences don't matter if you follow maintenance schedules. Also the echo trigger is in Gen 2, with a redesigned lever that works with a standard carrier... I believe you can contact them and get that new lever, and use it in the gen 1 triggers. |
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Posted: 7/29/2017 9:53:34 AM EDT
[#31]
The life of your guns and its parts have more to do with how you treat it.
How fast do you shoot? How well do you clean your rifle? Those two factors will determine the life of your rifle and its parts. If you shoot rapid mag dumps and don't ever clean it after 1000s of rounds, then yes, your gun will likely break faster. Unless you're building it yourself, I wouldn't stress swapping out parts. |
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Posted: 7/29/2017 11:16:20 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
99% of the time a bolt from any reputable company will pass headspace. Seems like you're paranoid about things that aren't really issues. OP I'd get a cryo treated bolt with Sprinco springs. Several options on an internet search. LMT is too over priced to give them business on their bolt imo. Plus it doesn't use standard parts which may need replacing. |
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Posted: 7/29/2017 1:05:55 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't trust standard bolts past 5,000 rounds. And the enhanced bolts... How long do you trust them? If longer than 5000 rounds... Why? Can you point to data to justify that, or is it conjecture, based on the manufacturer promises? I didn't find any replacement schedule in the technical manual for the bolts. At best, people are guessing from what I can tell. Simply replacing the bolts early due to their own paranoia. Most people are saying 5000rds is when you should replace gas rings and the extractor, and I see bolt replacement recommended at 10000, 15000, and 20000 from various places. |
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Posted: 7/29/2017 1:17:40 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Only 5000... any reason? And the enhanced bolts... How long do you trust them? If longer than 5000 rounds... Why? Can you point to data to justify that, or is it conjecture, based on the manufacturer promises? I didn't find any replacement schedule in the technical manual for the bolts. At best, people are guessing from what I can tell. Simply replacing the bolts early due to their own paranoia. Most people are saying 5000rds is when you should replace gas rings and the extractor, and I see bolt replacement recommended at 10000, 15000, and 20000 from various places. http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2006/smallarms/taylor.pdf ETA: I would expect the LMT Enhanced bolt to last 60,000+. I still don't buy them because I've got a bunch of AR's and very few of them see high round counts. |
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Posted: 7/29/2017 1:18:58 PM EDT
[#35]
BCM is really solid, but I've run a LWRC Advanced Combat Bolt in my 6.8 SPC and it's held up great for over 2k rounds so far.
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Posted: 7/29/2017 2:57:30 PM EDT
[#36]
Well when you talk about toughness, the company that makes the strongest bolt is hands down going to be the Sharps S7 Ionbond ReliaBolt. They had a bad batch of heat treat which they replaced the entire batch, since then no one has complained about one breaking. Then we have the LMT Enhanced Bolt as well as the ARP Superbolt. These are probably the 3 strongest on the market.
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Posted: 7/29/2017 3:44:20 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Primarily because of the SOCOM data from pg 44 of this powerpoint. http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2006/smallarms/taylor.pdf ETA: I would expect the LMT Enhanced bolt to last 60,000+. I still don't buy them because I've got a bunch of AR's and very few of them see high round counts. Likely from harsh firing treatment. It seems it's all down to how you run the gun. |
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Posted: 7/29/2017 5:29:55 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From that... Barrels are worn out at 5000rds as well. Likely from harsh firing treatment. It seems it's all down to how you run the gun. Take a look at some burn out videos on youtube. I believe that Iraqvet guy had a video recently where he put a melt down torture test. The gas tube basically melted and the barrel warped but the bolt and carrier were both fine. I feel that people read this powerpoint and don't understand it. Yes the powerpoint is talking about a cracked bolt, but there's no indication on the slide that talks about a widespread issue. 3-6k rounds is quite a little bit of rounds. I've shot well over that amount on my one upper and the only bad thing I noticed is a mild pitting on the bolt face due to plasma burn from the primer. I would like to hear how widespread this issue is. My bet is this powerpoint slide was made by some contractor company looking to milk money out of the government selling them "maintenance" that isn't needed. Did you know the government has a contractor to rebuild porta potties? Imagine that for a second. This is a multi million dollar contract too. Just imagine what sort of crap - pardon the pun - they must have sold them. |
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Posted: 7/29/2017 7:45:49 PM EDT
[#39]
Man, the black DD has to be at the top of the list.
I have sworn for years now that I am going to put an adj gas block on my MK18 upper with a can. I lost track a long time ago how many thousands of suppressed rounds have gone through that thing. It ejects at like 12:05 with the can on
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Posted: 7/29/2017 8:40:44 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
I'm surprised this hasn't been covered at length. I searched several different terms before I gave up. So, who makes the toughest bolt for AR-15? Why would it be covered at length? Most bolts work just fine, so there is no reason to worry about the toughest. The only discussions to worry about is when someone discovers a manufacturer taking shortcuts/using inferior material, or maybe news of a bad batch. |
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Posted: 7/30/2017 9:50:39 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I prefer to shoot my gun, rather than change parts on it. Especially if I should ever find myself in a situation (god forbid) where I really need my gun, and don't have time to change out parts that may, or may not headspace properly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Bolts are cheap. Just get one from a known company and you will be fine. Colt, PSA, BCM, FN, Spikes, AIM are all GTG. Especially if I should ever find myself in a situation (god forbid) where I really need my gun, and don't have time to change out parts that may, or may not headspace properly. |
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Posted: 7/30/2017 9:54:07 AM EDT
[#42]
Double tap
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Posted: 7/30/2017 1:03:25 PM EDT
[#43]
I do a "quick" cleaning on my rifles after every range session. This includes inspecting the bolt, with emphasis on the extractor and the bolt's lugs. Even if I worried about my semi-auto firing schedule wearing out a bolt in only 5,000 rounds, I can get a quality bolt for less than $40 if and when it needs replacing.
YES, you SHOULD worry about headspace with an AR. Contrary to gun counter lore, it is possible to have a combination of bolt and barrel give you an unsafe headspace situation, and it's not terribly safe to just blithely toss in a different bolt. I have a stripped bolt set aside that has the critical dimensions (face depth and lug length) well within specs; I use that bolt to evaluate whether a barrel is within spec for headspace. I can also measure those dimensions on a new bolt to easily determine whether or not it will be safe with a given barrel. And I have a set of headspace gauges that lets me see objectively if a specific bolt and barrel combination is safe. While I haven't had a problem with a .223 AR, I have with my first 300 Blackout barrel, which was WAY off. It's important, simple to do, and gauges don't cost that much, so why not measure headspace? |
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Posted: 7/30/2017 2:08:25 PM EDT
[#44]
Weak link we see in broken parts from AR's is definetly lack of proper lubrication and maintenance.
As for durability Colt and Fail 0 stuff we have sold I have never seen one come back broken. I have seen DPMS, Spikes, Stag and Radical Arms Extractors break, bolt cam pins break and gas keys come loose (inproper staking).. I attribute most of the broken extractors to you guys shooting your cheap steel ammo. Bolt cam pins are likely lack of proper lubrication. |
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Posted: 7/30/2017 2:10:54 PM EDT
[#45]
I just replaced my Radical Arms RIP 15 BCG last month with a Fail 0 because the gas key was loose again and the firing pin (though still working) was cracked and partially broken at tip.
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Posted: 7/30/2017 5:32:20 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Everything breaks eventually. Have a training gun and a defense gun if you're that concerned. Or, buy a SR15 and replace the bolt every 20,000+ Oh yeah, they addressed and fixed EVERY weakness. LMT if you want to use another barrel. |
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Posted: 7/30/2017 5:33:01 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who worries about headspacing in an AR bolt? |
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Posted: 7/30/2017 5:50:00 PM EDT
[#48]
How about the JP Rifles enhanced bolt?
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Posted: 7/30/2017 6:12:52 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There's data that suggest the HPT tested bolts fail much quicker. they crack at the cam pin hole linky about a BCM bolt |
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Posted: 7/30/2017 6:29:34 PM EDT
[#50]
Whoever makes them for the .mil.
Why is that so hard? |
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