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Posted: 2/11/2017 2:27:25 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think you may have filed a little too much off your carrier. If you do this you end up with an echo mode that will stack up in pull weight right at the end of the trigger travel. In echo, the trigger pulls the trigger lock fully against the trigger housing right before it activates the echo release shot. The extra pull weight your feeling is the heavy ass trigger lock spring u are fighting against. A correctly trimmed carrier will hold the trigger lock completely against the trigger housing when your bcg is fully in battery but not hold the bcg out of battery. Thus you will never feel the extra pull weight because the bcg is compressing the spring fully for you. |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 7:37:27 AM EDT
[#2]
i tried the bushing mod last night and the trigger felt good in semi and echo but the selector would not go into safe
i'm going to try to take a little off the OD today to see if that changes anything still trying to figure out a way to shorten the travel to activate the echo mode 
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Posted: 2/12/2017 1:06:54 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bushing specs. ID .109 inch OD .190 inch Width .117 inch I would not make the OD any larger. I tried and it made the trigger unsafe. With this size bushing it looks like you still get full engagement of all sear surfaces. As I said before I have just been using cheap rangemaxx 22 bore brushes. If you cut around the aluminum of the crimp you can then unscrew the wire bore brush out of the base and there is a nice hole left to align for drilling and then just a little file work to get the width correct. I have been using the back end of the drill bit to hold the bushing while filling down to size. Make sure your bushing hole is centered If your OD is too big the sear surface on the hammer won't be caught properly and possible hammer follow or chain fires could result...... at the OD i posted or smaller I have had no issues so far. |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 2:36:16 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Make sure your bushing hole is centered If your OD is too big the sear surface on the hammer won't be caught properly and possible hammer follow or chain fires could result...... at the OD i posted or smaller I have had no issues so far. 
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Posted: 2/12/2017 6:01:28 PM EDT
[#5]
What are your bushing size dimensions?
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Posted: 2/12/2017 6:20:02 PM EDT
[#6]
Does anyone know if .1550 or .1555 will fit the echo trigger housing? I need to bring my mic and caliper home from work to measure but I'm not likeing the pin movement I have. Maybe I'll try the Geissele pins I have.
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Posted: 2/12/2017 8:42:09 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does anyone know if .1550 or .1555 will fit the echo trigger housing? I need to bring my mic and caliper home from work to measure but I'm not likeing the pin movement I have. Maybe I'll try the Geissele pins I have. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ +1 |
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Posted: 2/12/2017 9:39:56 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i tried the bushing mod last night and the trigger felt good in semi and echo but the selector would not go into safe
i'm going to try to take a little off the OD today to see if that changes anything still trying to figure out a way to shorten the travel to activate the echo mode I never installed the saftey when I tested the oversize bushing(that was unsafe) so maybe that is a side effect because the bushing is holding the post too far out of it's original position to engage the saftey lever. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 5:34:39 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I never installed the saftey when I tested the oversize bushing(that was unsafe) so maybe that is a side effect because the bushing is holding the post too far out of it's original position to engage the saftey lever. 
i made a new "bushing" tonight out of a stainless steel set screw , it has a bit smaller of an outside diameter than the .22 bushing. i can now put the selector into safe with some force , it moves like butter between semi and echo. this is only with the upper attached , without the upper the selector moves smooth between all positions. i believe it's trying to tell me to file the ramps on the carrier a bit more but i don't want to remove anymore material from the carrier. the trigger lock moves farther back when the selector is put into safe , that's why my problem is only with the upper attached. my trigger pack also came with the older style trigger lock so that may be the difference with the bushing , i'll see how it runs this next range trip. one other thing i did tonight was test different trigger lock springs. i ended up with one that is longer/lighter than the supplied spring. this seems to have smoothed/lightened the travel and pull , in both semi and echo mode. it could be a combination of the bushing and the spring idk but in echo mode it feels better than it ever has so i'm not touching it until i go shoot it like it is. i also have a set of green springs inbound that i'll swap out after the next range trip to see if they help get the pull weight down some. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 9:26:38 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ +1 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Does anyone know if .1550 or .1555 will fit the echo trigger housing? I need to bring my mic and caliper home from work to measure but I'm not likeing the pin movement I have. Maybe I'll try the Geissele pins I have. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ +1 I installed Geissele pins and they fit fine, I think you could fit .1555 in there. |
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Posted: 2/13/2017 9:28:53 PM EDT
[#11]
thank you
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Posted: 2/13/2017 9:30:23 PM EDT
[#12]
If you order .1555 let me know how they fit.
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Posted: 2/13/2017 10:44:34 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you order .1555 let me know how they fit. |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 12:46:54 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I never installed the saftey when I tested the oversize bushing(that was unsafe) so maybe that is a side effect because the bushing is holding the post too far out of it's original position to engage the saftey lever. Dubtap and I talked via IM but I thought I would relay a little of the info on here for everyone to read. I installed the bushing on my ECHO in my AR9 the other night. I had to file it down a little to get it to fit. The bushing did lighten up the trigger in both modes a bit. I dont have a trigger gauge but it feels about a lb lighter. The reset on the ECHO mode for the release feels less too. I tried the spring that you sent for the trigger lock but the postman destroyed them. I noticed when I took the trigger out for the bushing install that the original trigger lock spring has really loosened up a lot since I installed it. I'm taking it to the range on friday for testing with my new NFA 9mm bolt |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 5:25:48 PM EDT
[#15]
I need to try this bushing mod. I think it may help with getting this to work for 22lr. I purchased a replacement sear trip since my original was pretty beat up.
Dubtap, USPS also happened to destroy the springs you sent me. |
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Posted: 2/14/2017 9:14:09 PM EDT
[#16]
I am out of town this week. When I get back I can send off a few more springs to both you guys. Will send them securely this time. Ops
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Posted: 2/14/2017 9:57:19 PM EDT
[#17]
do you have a part number on the springs i can pick one up for myself at the hdw store
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Posted: 2/16/2017 2:51:26 AM EDT
[#18]
How much do you want for a spring and bushing?
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Posted: 2/17/2017 5:18:29 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
do you have a part number on the springs i can pick one up for myself at the hdw store Spring Mcmastercarr s/n 9657k296 needs to be trimmed to oem spring length. All the instructions to make your own bushing and it's specs are posted earlier in this thread. |
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Posted: 2/17/2017 9:47:06 PM EDT
[#20]
Well today was the day that I went to the range
 I started shooting the AR9 with the brushing but on the second 32 round mag I had a problem. The safety would not switch over and the hammer would not fall when the trigger was pulled in semi or ECHO mode. I ended up stripping the trigger out on the range and the bushing had fallen off and seemed to be causing the problems. The pocket of my QC10 lower is pretty large compared to normal AR pockets so that may have attributed to the bushing falling out. Anyway watch the bushing in those deep pockets because when it falls out all kinds of craziness happens  . I put the trigger back together without the bushing installed and everything worked great with in my AR9. This AR9 has a new NFA 9mm bolt to replace my problematic mas defense 9mm bolt. I ran mag after mag as fast as I could with no hammer follow issues or bolt bounce. IT WAS FUN AS HELL!!!!! I had a range guy come over to me saying you cant shot full auto on the range (which is true). I informed him about the trigger and that it was not full auto problem resolved. This is becoming common when I am using either trigger (ECHO or FA Binary) at my range. Dubtap I'm sorry that your bushing did not work on the QC10 lower. It function tested fine until I put it under real fire. One crazy thing is that now the ECHO seems lighter on the trigger in semi and binary mode than before.. I need a trigger guage to see what the weight is on the trigger. Anyhow the ECHO imo is the only way to go with a 9mm AR. here are the two videos of mag dumps
ECHO AR9 mag dump 1 ECHO AR9 mag dump 2 I was planning on putting the Franklin Binary and the ECHO head to head in both my AR9's but I did not have the time to put my other Ar9 back together. Its upper is currently in pieces on my work bench edit: I tried running it suppressed with the ECHO and I had issues. Double feed after double feed. I think the heavier buffer (MVB PCH 8.5 oz) that I'm going to get for it will solve that problem. Does that sound logical? |
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Posted: 2/17/2017 10:15:08 PM EDT
[#21]
I'm glad to hear you got it up and running
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Posted: 2/18/2017 11:18:35 AM EDT
[#22]
Interesting. I have never seen a lower trigger/ saftey pocket milled out that much. Bushing will prolly only work with lowers that have conventional cut on the trigger/saftey pocket. The side of the lower needs to stop the bushing from sliding off the post.
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Posted: 2/18/2017 11:34:29 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting. I have never seen a lower trigger/ saftey pocket milled out that much. Bushing will prolly only work with lowers that have conventional cut on the trigger/saftey pocket. The side of the lower needs to stop the bushing from sliding off the post. That's the only thing I could think of as to why it would come off. I will try the bushing in my normal AR next. That ARs pocket is not like the QC10 so if it works in that lower then I'll know that the pockets machining is the problem. Installing the ECHO in the qc10 lower was kind of like herding cats because of how the pocket is milled. I had no problems with the fostech install in my YHM lower. |
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Posted: 2/18/2017 11:37:29 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm glad to hear you got it up and running Me too it is to much fun. I think that is going to be this ECHOs permanent home.
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Posted: 2/18/2017 2:49:49 PM EDT
[#25]
Thought some people might like a picture of Dubtap's bushing installed on the echo.
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Posted: 2/18/2017 6:10:25 PM EDT
[#26]
Made a short video showing the echo in operation with my trigger jig.
https://youtu.be/u4Q404KWGUM  Fostech Echo - cycle of operations shown in a jig. |
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Posted: 2/18/2017 6:18:03 PM EDT
[#27]
excellent video
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Posted: 2/18/2017 6:22:00 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
excellent video
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Posted: 2/19/2017 10:34:05 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Made a short video showing the echo in operation with my trigger jig. https://youtu.be/u4Q404KWGUM  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4Q404KWGUMVery nice. |
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Posted: 2/19/2017 12:53:57 PM EDT
[#30]
Anyone think a nylon bushing might work even better than the aluminum one?
Easy enough to test. I'll see if I can make one tonight. G. |
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Posted: 2/19/2017 4:05:34 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Made a short video showing the echo in operation with my trigger jig. https://youtu.be/u4Q404KWGUM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4Q404KWGUMGreat video! Thanks for posting it. |
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Posted: 2/19/2017 6:26:08 PM EDT
[#32]
Any idea where Fostech is on shipping? I ordered December 5th, wondering what my wait will be?
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Posted: 2/19/2017 9:21:52 PM EDT
[#33]
Dubtap
I was able to sit down at my bench with light and better eyes this afternoon and I know exactly why the bushing fell off. The pockets sides on the qc10 lower are milled wider than other AR lowers this left approximately .19" of space between the outside of the bushing and the side of the pocket. It was more than enough room for it to come loose during shooting and fall out. I really should have noticed this during the installation but it was a work night and I guess my brain was not working  . Now we know larger milled QC10 pockets will not allow for this type of modification. Pass it on. I'm going to try another non 9mm lower next.
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Posted: 2/19/2017 9:26:41 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dubtap I was able to sit down at my bench with light and better eyes this afternoon and I know exactly why the bushing fell off. The pockets sides on the qc10 lower are milled wider than other AR lowers this left approximately .19" of space between the outside of the bushing and the side of the pocket. It was more than enough room for it to come loose during shooting and fall out. I really should have noticed this during the installation but it was a work night and I guess my brain was not working . Now we know larger milled QC10 pockets will not allow for this type of modification. Pass it on. I'm going to try another non 9mm lower next. |
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Posted: 2/19/2017 10:10:33 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any idea where Fostech is on shipping? I ordered December 5th, wondering what my wait will be? ordered late june still havent gotten it |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 2:59:07 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you have a picture of your fcg pocket? I'm wondering if its cut to M16 specs. I tried uploading a new pic from my phone to the new photobucket app but I can't get it to work. I wish they would not have updated the phone app.  I do have a photo of the lower when it had the BFS gen II in it a while back. You can see the size difference on it compared to a normal AR pocket. Here it is
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Posted: 2/20/2017 3:18:39 PM EDT
[#37]
These days I just load pictures straight from my phone to ar15.com. No need for a third party host. It also makes it where I can see my photos from work - imgur and photobucket are blocked
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Posted: 2/20/2017 3:22:36 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ordered late june still havent gotten it same here |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 9:39:36 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
These days I just load pictures straight from my phone to ar15.com. No need for a third party host. It also makes it where I can see my photos from work - imgur and photobucket are blocked I need to get a membership next month. I told myself once i hit 2000 posts that would mean its membership time. Anyhow did the photo ask your question. I dont have an M16 (darn the Hughes amendment) so my knowledge on the pocket differences is limited.
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Posted: 2/20/2017 9:52:56 PM EDT
[#40]
Just got to see the picture. It does appear to be M16 cut. If the Hughes amendment ever gets repealed you will only have to drill a hole and an M16 FCG will drop right in.
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Posted: 2/20/2017 10:41:22 PM EDT
[#41]
I mention this only since someone might have a chance to test it before I do.
I'm thinking that a nylon bushing might work very well in this application, as it provides low friction against metal parts. In looking through hobby stores, it appears that there a number of nylon bushings for RC cars (to be used on the axle), that are very close to the dimensions that Dubtap has given to us. I'm going to hit Hobby Lobby tomorrow to see if they have any that might work. These things are crazy cheap (50 for $5), so nothing ventured, nothing gained. |
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Posted: 2/21/2017 12:55:10 AM EDT
[#42]
So this trigger looks really good, Im thinking about putting down a deposit, but what is the wait time?
Website said 2nd quarter of 2017, but i see people ordered in june and still haven received theirs yet. Seems like a good investment, tell me yes or no.... |
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Posted: 2/23/2017 1:33:25 PM EDT
[#43]
Ordered mine Monday and got it today. Brought it on eBay. Paid a little more but worth it since I don't have to wait.
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Posted: 2/23/2017 2:45:06 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ordered mine Monday and got it today. Brought it on eBay. Paid a little more but worth it since I don't have to wait. bastard!!! jk man im happy for you... or am i
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Posted: 2/23/2017 8:39:28 PM EDT
[#45]
There are 2 fostech echo triggers on ebay for $549 right now if anyone is interested. Search "Fostech echo". Auction over in 10 minutes. Hurry!
*Not mine auction. I did brought from around this price Edit: well, I seen one was sold for $549 and the other for $609. Please tell me it's an arfcommer that got it for $549? |
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Posted: 2/23/2017 9:23:37 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
bastard!!! jk man im happy for you... or am i Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ordered mine Monday and got it today. Brought it on eBay. Paid a little more but worth it since I don't have to wait. bastard!!! jk man im happy for you... or am i I really hope you did not buy the one that was $750 
Here's a great deal on one Eco trigger
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Posted: 2/23/2017 9:45:37 PM EDT
[#47]
I thought about bidding on the one for $519, but I figured it would go up a bit.
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Posted: 2/23/2017 10:01:53 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought about bidding on the one for $519, but I figured it would go up a bit. You mean the $549 one? There were 0 bidders until I posted it here and sold with only 1 bidder after my post. I was hoping someone here got that one. |
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Posted: 2/23/2017 10:07:22 PM EDT
[#49]
No. Earlier today one was $519 with 1 bid. It's probably the one that went for a little more than 600 you mentioned.
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Posted: 2/24/2017 8:18:32 PM EDT
[#50]
Ordered in June just paid my invoice i got today.
Very excite. |
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