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Posted: 9/28/2016 9:46:17 AM EDT
This is my first AR. I'm putting one together for medium range target shooting. Parts should arrive tomorrow, let me know your thoughts. This does not need to be sub MOA but I want it to be accurate enough to hit some steel gong targets at 200-300 yards with standard 55gr FMJ rounds. I have a 30-06 and hand load for that, but I am looking for something fun and inexpensive to shoot.
Bought the $200 PSA lower with magpul hardware. For the upper, went with a PSA 16" stainless mid length a2 style barreled upper assembly. With a free floating keymod hand-guard/rail. I'm hoping the free-floating style will add to the accuracy of the gun. I also bought some "Accu-Wedges" for when I put it together. I got a PSA premium BCG and charging handle. http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-mid-length-5-56-nato-1-8-stainless-freedom-keymod-lightweight-upper-no-bcg-or-ch.html I bought a bipod and mount for the keymod rail. For optics, a Bushnell "AR" 1-4x compact scope with reticle calibrated for the standard AR plinking rounds. I'll post some pics when I get everything together. Got a few questions: Does the PSA upper or lower come with takedown/pivot pins or do I need to buy some? I'm used to bolt action rifles with nice triggers, and will probably upgrade the trigger at some point. Any recommendations in the $70-100 range? Any tweaks I can do to the gun that will improve accuracy? Gas block adjustments, etc? Thanks |
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[#1]
Got a few questions:
Does the PSA upper or lower come with takedown/pivot pins or do I need to buy some? The lower includes takedown pins. I'm used to bolt action rifles with nice triggers, and will probably upgrade the trigger at some point. Any recommendations in the $70-100 range? No suggestions at this price range, you should do fine with your needs with a GI trigger 200-300 yards. Any tweaks I can do to the gun that will improve accuracy? Gas block adjustments, etc? Shoot what you have. I've had great luck with PSA uppers and good ammo. |
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[#2]
Quoted:
Got a few questions: Does the PSA upper or lower come with takedown/pivot pins or do I need to buy some? The lower includes takedown pins. I'm used to bolt action rifles with nice triggers, and will probably upgrade the trigger at some point. Any recommendations in the $70-100 range? No suggestions at this price range, you should do fine with your needs with a GI trigger 200-300 yards. Any tweaks I can do to the gun that will improve accuracy? Gas block adjustments, etc? Shoot what you have. I've had great luck with PSA uppers and good ammo. View Quote I got the trigger covered, have 6 or 7, love em...especially for 125.00. MBT |
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[#3]
ALG's ACT is my favorite, just a refined milspec trigger that is much smoother, imo.
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[#4]
There is no trick or doodad that will make up for poor marksmanship fundamentals. Better triggers, optics, free floating the barrel, match ammo can make a solid shooter better but won't make a shitty shooter good. Ammo until you plateau. Then make incremental changes and monitor results. IMO
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[#5]
On the trigger choice, this can be all over the board. I get the impression from your build that you're not wanting to spend any more than necessary to achieve decent, acceptable performance as it pertains to reliability and accuracy.
I have some high dollar guns with some high dollar triggers. When building my first "cheap" AR to be a true truck gun...lock/secured behind the front seat of my pickup...I didn't want to spend $150+ on a trigger. I stumbled across the Spikes Battletrigger for the mid-$50 price range. IMO what makes this relatively milspec trigger work isn't just the better finish/polish done to the trigger metal. A huge benefit is the NiB treatment to the trigger components. This aids the metal polishing to make the pull and break even cleaner/crisper. It's not a Geissele or other high zoot trigger, but man it makes a ton of difference in trigger performance with a low investment. |
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[#7]
You will be just fine with your setup.
I used a palmetto barrel for a suppressed build and have no problem hitting steel out to 500 yards with a 1-5x from field positions. The Larue trigger will be good no doubt. I really like JP triggers and this is a good deal: http://www.voodooinnovations.com/jp-enterprises-complete-fire-control-system |
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[#8]
Thanks for the great replies.
Yeah I am not trying to break the bank with this one. If I want a high accuracy longer range semi-auto I think I would just plunk down for a DPMS LR-308. I do want to make sure the PSA rifle is going to "be all it can be" though. I'm hoping to get better than 3 MOA performance? Is that realistic? |
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[#9]
Quoted:
Thanks for the great replies. Yeah I am not trying to break the bank with this one. If I want a high accuracy longer range semi-auto I think I would just plunk down for a DPMS LR-308. I do want to make sure the PSA rifle is going to "be all it can be" though. I'm hoping to get better than 3 MOA performance? Is that realistic? View Quote It all depends on the ammo. I really have never sat down with sand bags on a bench and tried to wring out the last bit off accuracy from mine. If you feed it M193 I would expect between 2 and 4 MOA. Some commercial 55gr loads shoot about 2 MOA from my experience. Wolf Gold and that Swiss loaded Geco ammo are both pretty good. The Geco is about 100 fps slower than the Wolf Gold over my chrono, but it is also more accurate. Federal Gold Medal Match with 69gr Sierras might just give you performance around 1-1.5 MOA, or it might not. I went down the path of 3-gun rather than the path of precision rifle. So a 2 MOA rifle with cheap, flat shooting ammo is perfect for me. |
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[#10]
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[#11]
Quoted:
Thanks for the great replies. Yeah I am not trying to break the bank with this one. If I want a high accuracy longer range semi-auto I think I would just plunk down for a DPMS LR-308. I do want to make sure the PSA rifle is going to "be all it can be" though. I'm hoping to get better than 3 MOA performance? Is that realistic? View Quote Interesting coincidence, I'm preparing to sight-in one of those barrels that it is in your build...same exact one. Though I have some other components in the mix, I should get about the same accuracy results as yours. I have one of those Spikes Battletriggers in the Anderson lower. This is a budget build but not really any trash in the mix. I can only stand to go so low down the totem pole...LOL! I'll be shooting some XM193 to get on paper with a Burris 2-7 E1 Fullfield scope. Then I'll go to Federal Gold Match w/Sierra 68g Matchkings, and then on to my personal loads of Hornady 68g HPBT match bullets. I know how my other AR's and 5.56/.223 guns shoot with these rounds, so it will be a good comparsion. I live in the country and have already set up my Herters shooting bench and targets...just waiting for my spot to get in the shade. I should have some results this evening to post on this barrel. |
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[#12]
Not sure if you bought that upper yet but psa does make runs using a fluted match barrel occasionally. Think they have the barrel itself in Stock right now but maybe wait for their next run..
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[#13]
View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes fanbois never cease to amaze me he wants a cheap trigger and shoot bolts and you recommend a trigger out of his price range as well as a different trigger altogether. OP get a ALG ACT, it will feel like what your used to and well w/n your budget. Quoted:
ALG's ACT is my favorite, just a refined milspec trigger that is much smoother, imo. very good reccomendation |
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[#14]
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[#15]
Quoted:
This does not need to be sub MOA but I want it to be accurate enough to hit some steel gong targets at 200-300 yards with standard 55gr FMJ rounds. decent ammo will get this accomplished With a free floating keymod hand-guard/rail. I'm hoping the free-floating style will add to the accuracy of the gun. it will take away inconsistency more than anything, its not going to make it a sub moa shooter just bceause its free floated. Unless you are only shooting match ammo, I doubt you will notice much I also bought some "Accu-Wedges" for when I put it together. waste of money I'm used to bolt action rifles with nice triggers, and will probably upgrade the trigger at some point. Any recommendations in the $70-100 range? alg act Any tweaks I can do to the gun that will improve accuracy? Gas block adjustments, etc? get the best ammo you can Thanks View Quote |
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[#16]
M193 or plain 55 FMJ bulk bullets will give you the least accuracy and the wind likes to take them but still fun.
If you reload, buy some 68 or 69 grain bullets in buik. I get sub MOA groups with Hornady 68 BTHP and TAC powder. That load costs me 20 cents a piece to reload which is about 4 cents more a piece than 55 FMJ. If you shop around you can find that bullet for around 10-12 cents each. Shot from an AR, you should be able to hit a 10" circle at 500 if you can learn to read the wind and the 68 will do much better in the wind than the 55. |
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[#17]
I got to shoot that 16" freedom barrel today, and it didn't disappoint. This is a new build so I had to sight-in the 2-7 Burris. I shot and cleaned the barrel a couple of times even though I don't think this is as important as perhaps it used to be for a barrel like this.
After quickly getting on paper with XM193, the Federal Gold Match 69g HPBT and my 68g Hornady match bullets performed almost identically. I got one 5-shot group that was .5 MOA...that had to be some kind of luck thing...but the norm was 1.5 and 1.75...OK, OK, perhaps there were a couple of 2.0's also...LOL! This is shooting off of a good shooting bench with Caldwell AR bags and taking my time. I am very happy with that. I have a really good bolt rifle that will often shoot .5 MOA even with me behind it, but I'm very happy to get these results from a cheap AR. This gun isn't one of those Ruger Precision Rifles, and I ain't no American Sniper. I've said this before here, and I'll say it again. Many of these cheaper barrels seem to be shooting way better than logic would normally dictate. With good ammo, I've ended up with three of what I'd classify as budget SS barrels that shoot darned well. My theory...better machinery to make barrels may have removed some of the craftsmanship that used to be an absolute necessity. And please...that's not to say better workmanship doesn't produce better barrels. It's just that all of the cheaper ones aren't necessarily just good for breaker bars and fireplace pokers. And good quality ammo goes a long way. |
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[#18]
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/702697_My_new_PSA_Stickq.html
Quoted:
I got to shoot that 16" freedom barrel today, and it didn't disappoint. This is a new build so I had to sight-in the 2-7 Burris. I shot and cleaned the barrel a couple of times even though I don't think this is as important as perhaps it used to be for a barrel like this. After quickly getting on paper with XM193, the Federal Gold Match 69g HPBT and my 68g Hornady match bullets performed almost identically. I got one 5-shot group that was .5 MOA...that had to be some kind of luck thing...but the norm was 1.5 and 1.75...OK, OK, perhaps there were a couple of 2.0's also...LOL! This is shooting off of a good shooting bench with Caldwell AR bags and taking my time. I am very happy with that. I have a really good bolt rifle that will often shoot .5 MOA even with me behind it, but I'm very happy to get these results from a cheap AR. This gun isn't one of those Ruger Precision Rifles, and I ain't no American Sniper. I've said this before here, and I'll say it again. Many of these cheaper barrels seem to be shooting way better than logic would normally dictate. With good ammo, I've ended up with three of what I'd classify as budget SS barrels that shoot darned well. My theory...better machinery to make barrels may have removed some of the craftsmanship that used to be an absolute necessity. And please...that's not to say better workmanship doesn't produce better barrels. It's just that all of the cheaper ones aren't necessarily just good for breaker bars and fireplace pokers. And good quality ammo goes a long way.[img]http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_big.gif[/ I am glad to hear that your shop so well. I just finished mine and can't wait to go out and give it a try. Thanks for the report. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/702697_My_new_PSA_Stickq.html View Quote |
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[#19]
I bought a PSA Freedom upper with the 16" SS mid length 1:7 twist with A-2 hand guard and fixed front sight. I bought the PSA Prememium BCG and charging handle and mounted it on an Anderson lower with PSA 6 position stock and PSA LPK with RRA NM trigger. I was shooting with a bipod and rear bag at 200 yards with a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6 in a Vortex CM-202 mount. I was geting MOA groups on paper targets with a hand load using 55 grain FMJ TAC powder and CCI 450 primers. I was able to hit a 6" round AR-500 steel plate every time at 200 yards. I also got a 3" group at 300 yards on a paper target. I have $550 in this rifle and I think it shoots darn good for the price.
I've got some 69 grain SMK, 75 grain Hornady BTHP and some 77 grain SMK loaded and hope to test them in the next few days. |
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[#20]
Quoted:
I bought a PSA Freedom upper with the 16" SS mid length 1:7 twist with A-2 hand guard and fixed front sight. I bought the PSA Prememium BCG and charging handle and mounted it on an Anderson lower with PSA 6 position stock and PSA LPK with RRA NM trigger. I was shooting with a bipod and rear bag at 200 yards with a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6 in a Vortex CM-202 mount. I was geting MOA groups on paper targets with a hand load using 55 grain FMJ TAC powder and CCI 450 primers. I was able to hit a 6" round AR-500 steel plate every time at 200 yards. I also got a 3" group at 300 yards on a paper target. I have $550 in this rifle and I think it shoots darn good for the price. I've got some 69 grain SMK, 75 grain Hornady BTHP and some 77 grain SMK loaded and hope to test them in the next few days. View Quote Thanks for the ammo input. You have a very good shooting budget rifle. I wish I wasn't limited to factory loads. |
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[#21]
Quoted:
Thanks for the ammo input. You have a very good shooting budget rifle. I wish I wasn't limited to factory loads. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
I bought a PSA Freedom upper with the 16" SS mid length 1:7 twist with A-2 hand guard and fixed front sight. I bought the PSA Prememium BCG and charging handle and mounted it on an Anderson lower with PSA 6 position stock and PSA LPK with RRA NM trigger. I was shooting with a bipod and rear bag at 200 yards with a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6 in a Vortex CM-202 mount. I was geting MOA groups on paper targets with a hand load using 55 grain FMJ TAC powder and CCI 450 primers. I was able to hit a 6" round AR-500 steel plate every time at 200 yards. I also got a 3" group at 300 yards on a paper target. I have $550 in this rifle and I think it shoots darn good for the price. I've got some 69 grain SMK, 75 grain Hornady BTHP and some 77 grain SMK loaded and hope to test them in the next few days. Thanks for the ammo input. You have a very good shooting budget rifle. I wish I wasn't limited to factory loads. I have recently gotten some ADI 69gr HPBT ammo to try, but I have found Federal AE 50 gr varmint tipped to be really accurate out of my PSA CHF builds and Colt 6920s. |
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[#22]
Quoted:
I have recently gotten some ADI 69gr HPBT ammo to try, but I have found Federal AE 50 gr varmint tipped to be really accurate out of my PSA CHF builds and Colt 6920s. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I bought a PSA Freedom upper with the 16" SS mid length 1:7 twist with A-2 hand guard and fixed front sight. I bought the PSA Prememium BCG and charging handle and mounted it on an Anderson lower with PSA 6 position stock and PSA LPK with RRA NM trigger. I was shooting with a bipod and rear bag at 200 yards with a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6 in a Vortex CM-202 mount. I was geting MOA groups on paper targets with a hand load using 55 grain FMJ TAC powder and CCI 450 primers. I was able to hit a 6" round AR-500 steel plate every time at 200 yards. I also got a 3" group at 300 yards on a paper target. I have $550 in this rifle and I think it shoots darn good for the price. I've got some 69 grain SMK, 75 grain Hornady BTHP and some 77 grain SMK loaded and hope to test them in the next few days. Thanks for the ammo input. You have a very good shooting budget rifle. I wish I wasn't limited to factory loads. I have recently gotten some ADI 69gr HPBT ammo to try, but I have found Federal AE 50 gr varmint tipped to be really accurate out of my PSA CHF builds and Colt 6920s. I have had really good groups with the AR 50VT out of my MP 1/8 melonite also. Can't wait to see how my SS 1/7 likes it. |
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[#23]
Thanks again for all of the replies.
I haven't searched much, but what is the best budget factory ammo? I heard wolf gold. I have the rifle together now, just dry fired it. Everything is good but I do hate the trigger. Heavy pull and it creeps. I do see the ALG ACT is well within my budget but the pull is listed around 6lbs. Are there any springs I could buy that would get the pull down below 5lbs? |
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[#24]
Quoted: Thanks again for all of the replies. I haven't searched much, but what is the best budget factory ammo? I heard wolf gold. I have the rifle together now, just dry fired it. Everything is good but I do hate the trigger. Heavy pull and it creeps. I do see the ALG ACT is well within my budget but the pull is listed around 6lbs. Are there any springs I could buy that would get the pull down below 5lbs? View Quote |
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[#25]
Quoted:
The American Eagle (Federal) 50gr varmint tipped ($11/box) loads do real good at 100-200yds. I've hit .8moa at 200yds with them in no/light wind. The ADI 69gr Sierra Matchking rounds are a steal online at $109/200! I hit 8" steel at 500yds regularly. (with the help of Applied Ballistics App and good data.) View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks again for all of the replies. I haven't searched much, but what is the best budget factory ammo? I heard wolf gold. I have the rifle together now, just dry fired it. Everything is good but I do hate the trigger. Heavy pull and it creeps. I do see the ALG ACT is well within my budget but the pull is listed around 6lbs. Are there any springs I could buy that would get the pull down below 5lbs? What he said about ammo. My trigger feels like crap too and I just ordered a set of JP springs. From other reviews I went with the yellow trigger spring and red hammer spring. I may leave the GI hammer spring just for reliability reasons. I will let you know in a few days how it works now. |
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