I got a DDM4-V11 brand new and upon getting it home I looked it over real close as most of us do with pride on any new toy . Well during my close examination, right out of the box I noticed that the gas block seemed to be closer to the hand guard/rail on one side than on the other. So much so that the side of the gas block had scratch marks where it looked like it possibly made contact/rubbed on the rail itself. I then looked at it from the front looking at it dead on and it did seem to be askew toward the ejection port side.

Now admittedly I have never built an AR or installed a barrel or gas block so my knowledge of how they go together comes from what I have read here. That said it would seem to me that either the gas block was on crooked or the gas block was on straight but the barrel was on crooked. Both seem odd to me because, as I understand it the gas block is pinned in and those pins go into a groove in the barrel therefore the gas block cannot go on sideways. It can only go on one way and if those pin grooves are where they are supposed to be then it has to be straight. However, again if I understand correctly, the barrel has a groove in it too and thus it can only go into the upper one way so unless the notch in the upper was milled wrong it also can only go in one way so it also could not possibly be wrong.

I went back to the store where I bought it and checked out 2 more that were on the shelf to compare to see if I was crazy. On one the gas block/barrel was perfectly straight but on the other it had the same askew gas block. So I called DD and of course as has been written here numerous times, their customer service was really nice and they sent me an RMA so I could send it in to be checked out. I thought it would be easier if they just sent me a new upper and then I'd send them back this one as the lower seems fine, but they said that it is kinda busy right now (I believe that ) and they just could not spare an upper and they wanted the complete rifle to check it out anyway. Fair enough and it is currently there being evaluated.

So my questions are:
1. Are my assumptions about the gas block and barrel positioning correct (from all you guys that have installed barrels and gas blocks)?
2. Anyone else with a DD rifle have an askew gas block? In other words is this normal and nothing I should have worried about?

Got any pics?

It sounds like the rail isn't straight as opposed to a canted gas block.

ETA The pic posted below tells more of the story. That's a tight clearance and I can now see a slightly canted block could touch the rail.

A little askew isn't a too big a deal, the hole in the gas block is larger than the gas port in the barrel, so there is some margin of error. Most likely when they drilled it for the pin it got drilled slightly askew. If it's touching the rail tho, that's a no-no because it ruins the free float nature of the barrel. I'd say your being reasonable in asking DD to look at it if it's noticeably crooked. Sucks they didn't get it right out of the box.

So you sent an unfired rifle back to the manufacturer for a gas block issue that you're not even sure was an issue (I'd almost guarantee it wasn't)?  

He didn't say they were always touching, he said:



Those scratches (if there are any in the first place) were most likely from the rail install when it was being slid over the barrel/gas block at the factory.

I would have sent it back if I could not fix it myself. (dont know  if these V11 gas blocks have easily removable pins or not)

This is my 2 month old V11, gas block is perfectly straight (looks a hair closer to one side because of my phone position, but to the eye it looks perfect)

This is max. cant on a DD mid-length barrel and a BCM block. Gas port is still 100% open. One more tenth of an mm and it starts to close. The bigger gas port in the gas block allows for an large amount of error. Did your gas block look like that? It would bug the hell out of me, even though the rifle would still function. If the gas block is canted, then the gas tube will most likely enter the upper receiver crooked, which will result in a less than ideal gas tube/gas key engagement and premature gas tube and gas key wear. In extreme cases, the gas system/rifle can destroy itself.

Kinda reminds me:

I had a gas block pinned. When I got it back it was slightly canted. I had to sell off my Matrix Arms rail and go with something that had more clearance

I'm happier with the MI rail though. It's functioned 100%, but it's nowhere as bad as the cant in the picture above.

If it's held on with set screws you can always adjust it.

Wow, lots of replies. Let me take them one by one.

First and foremost 702Wolfi,
Excellent pics. That is very helpful. I have never seen the actual hole in a barrel under a gas block. If that is indicative of all or most gas blocks then It helps to show the amount of variation that is possible with no ill effects. Yes, mine was like that. but to the other side toward the ejection port.

Sublimeon24s,
Thank you for that pic. Also extremely helpful since it shows what a correct V11 should look like. Mine was not like that. That lets me know that I was right in that mine was not correct. Very much appreciated.

RJeff21,
Have we met? Because it seems kinda odd to have someone I have never met calling a liar right out of the box. "If there are any scratches at all"? What does that mean? Why would I lie? There were indeed deep scratches or should I say one very deep groove only on the right side of the gas block (ejection port side) No scratch on the other side. My guess is that this occurred during transit because the gas block was so close to the rail. Probably rubbed severely during bouncing around during shipment since it was not centered correctly. I doubt it was while firing because I don't think they do that much test firing. But I could be wrong.
Still I see no reason why you would doubt my integrity. If I say there was a scratch there then there was a scratch there. Not just surface either. The paint was gone and it was shiny silver.

Also you said "So you sent an unfired rifle back to the manufacturer for a gas block issue that you're not even sure was an issue (I'd almost guarantee it wasn't)?" You're entitled to your opinion sir. I believe in America. If you have no problem buying a brand new rifle and having something wrong with it then God bless. I won't question your taste. But please permit me my preferences. When I buy something used I expect wear and tear, but when I buy something brand new I expect it to be free from defects in function OR appearance. Maybe you would buy a brand new rifle with a huge scratch going down the side because it doesn't matter toward the function. Fair enough and I will not question your choice. But I would not. Can I have that opinion? When I buy a brand new anything I want it pristine and unscratched or dented or bent AS well as functioning correctly.
Even more so because I feel that I paid a little bit of a premium above other rifles because this was a DD. I could have bought a cheaper rifle that probably would have functioned fine, but I chose a DD because they are supposed to be a step up in quality, fit and finish, reliability and customer service. So when I got it and saw that it was not up to what they claim their own standards to be then yeah, I was kinda disappointed. I might have expected this from a cheaper brand but I kinda had higher hopes from a DD.

That said, I also realize that when your making a gazillion rifles a minute and people are human things happen. I'm not freaking out, just asking questions. It is there at their place and they are trying to make it right for me and I'm fine with that if it comes back right. If this goes well I would buy another DD and I won't let this bother me. The reason I bought this on in the first place was because I was so impressed with the ones my friends have and I wanted one.

All that said I'm back to my original point, which is that it is my understanding that a barrel slides into the upper and is straight because of a groove in the barrel mount ... correct? There are no threads on a barrel at the breech end right? The point I'm getting at is that the barrel does not spin on so it can't be that it just wasn't tightened all the way and just needed to be turned a bit, right? Because the barrel does not turn on it plugs in kinda ... right?

And the same with the gas block right. A gas block , as I understand it, slides onto the barrel but it is kept straight by the pins that mate up with pin grooves or holes in the barrel, right? So if those 2 things are right then how can a barrel or gas block be twisted in the first place? Only wy I can think of is for the barrel groove or corresponding slot in the upper to be off center which means bad barrel or bad upper casting. OR the pin slots in the barrel are off for the gas block or the pin holes on the gas block were in the wrong place.

Or am I not understanding how these things go together. IN which case any education would be greatly appreciated. Just trying to understand it.

Correct, the barrel "plug in", the barrel itself is screwed into a barrel extension, then the index pin is installed into the extension. If the barrel spins then its not in the barrel extension correctly and massive issues ensue. After that the gas port is drilled, then the gas block is slid down the barrel and attached. Either with set screws on the bottom, or with a drill press drilling the gasblock and barrel together and then a pin inserted.

Crooked gas blocks are either the gas port not being centered with the index pin (not exactly 12 o'clock) meaning the block has to be canted to compensate. Or the block wasn't perfectly square when the drilling for the pin occurred, causing it to set askew.  This is/was a bigger issue with guns that have an A frame front sight post since that would tilt the sight making zeroing a challenge.

Really it's not a big deal if the gas block isn't in contact with the rail and the gun functions. A pinned GB won't move so if it works, your set. But if it is touching the rail then it's back to the factory for replacement.

My DD Mk18 is just a touch off center, can tell if you look for it but its damn near perfect. My DD 18" S2W  barrel is perfect. As is my M4v3 FSP.

Ah, OK. So if I understand you correctly the barrel actually is threaded on the breech end but it is screwed into a collar or extension and is held in place in the extension by a pin, and then that entire assembly is "plugged" into the upper and held in proper alignment by a slot in the extension going into a corresponding groove in the upper. If so then the only way that the barrel can not be properly aligned would be for that extension pin hole to be off. Which I guess would be repaired by getting a new extension.

Well I just got it back and ... the same No joy. I took the rail off to examine closer and it looks like they removed the gas block and put the same gas block right back on. How do I know? Well it has the same scratch in the same place. Unless they put a new gas block on and it got the same scratch in transit. Which I guess is possible being as it could easily rub on the rail if you press the barrel over a bit. Bouncing around in a truck could cause that.
Still lists to the right. If I press on barrel a little bit to the right it touches the rail and if I press on it to the left it does not. That could be how the scratch got there just from bumping in transit because it is so close to the rail. But my guess is during test firing it rubs. That is no good because it is supposed to be free float.

Also, for my trouble the butt pad is destroyed. Cut straight through. That, I'm guessing, did occur during transit. Probably just got bounced too hard on its bottom and it was hard enough for the inside of the case to cut right through the butt pad.

Guess I'll give them a phone call tomorrow and see what they say. Customer service to the test. I don't think I'm being unreasonable. I pad a decent chunk of change for a what I was hoping to be a slightly higher tier gun above some of the other guns in overall fit and finish and out of the box quality. If its rubbing on the rail, NG.

Just kinda depressing, Saved up some change and finally had enough in the piggy bank to get something I had hoped would be real nice and now I have a sideways gas block AND a split butt pad Just don't make stuff like they used to I guess. Well I don't want to get ahead of myself. I'll see what they say on the phone tomorrow.

DD has a great guarantee, just let them know, all around you are not happy and explain to them what you explained on here and if possible, you would like a new firearm, because this one is just not doing it for you.  DD is a high enough tier rifle, they don't want people running around bitching about their equipment.

If you can make that gas block touch the rail then send it right back. I'd email support pictures and flat out ask for a replacement upper as its their second crack at it.  I love DD, I've got 3 rifles by them, but i will say, 2 of them had to go back, one for the rail coming loose (flawed omega x before they redesigned it to the mfr barrel nut) and one for an out of spec lower. To their credit they did good by me both times, but one could wonder if the QC department needs help.

What ???? A problem with a DD rifle !!!! No way ! It can't be !!! You will get hammered on here.

I understand your frustration. The price DD charges, the rifle should be perfect. I dealt with the same thing from them a few years ago. I won't buy from them again, overrated if you ask me.

I would suggest just selling it and go a different route. Get you a Pws, it's a piston and their quality control actually does a very good inspection before leaving the shop. You won't be disappointed.

Can you post a front view picture please?

I'd be interested in seeing some as well.  

I tried taking pics but all I have is a cell phone camera and it can't seem to focus on the gas block and the flash hider or upper rail at the same time. Very hard to get light down inside the rail while holding the camera and getting everything to focus. I'll try removing the rail and see if I can right up a string or something to show the line that it is off.
I do have some pics of the scratches on the right side though.

I just left a message with customer service and they are supposed to call me back. We'll see what they say. Fingers crossed. Seems as though easiest option is new upper then they can get this one back and play with it all day if they want but at least I will finally have 100% of a rifle. But then again I'm not there so I don't know what their best solution is. A brand new rifle seems like a waste if all that's wrong is the upper, but I guess that is for them to figure what's best for them.

But meanwhile I will try my best to get a pic in focus.

Sell it. You shouldn't have to go through all this trouble spending $1500 on a rifle. Total crap

If I sell it I lose money. I'm not at that point yet. Although I may get there.
Today is second day and I have not heard back from them yet. Phone call to voicemail and e-mail sent and no reply. Not angry yet as I know they are busy but we'll see if I hear from them by the end of the day. I would rather have a slow great response than a quick bad response. I am keeping hope alive

I see no button to upload pics/attachments. I'm guessing that that is only for members with paid accounts. Pics of the vertical scratches (indicating rubbing with rail) came out good, pic of split butt pad came out good, but pic of offset gas block is hard to get focused at the camera wants to focus on rail or gas block or barrel but not all three so 2 always end up fuzzy. If it was way way off then that would probably work. But admittedly it is not way way off. It is just not straight. If I put a A2 gas block with a front sight on it aim would be way off.

Where did you buy it?

Go back there. They will most likely have a sales rep's number and will get through much quicker.

In most industries, warranty issues are handled first at the retail level.

Agree 100%. This is also what makes this whole situation confusing and honestly a little suspect. IF you bought a NEW DD rifle from a REAL Gun Dealer this should have been returned immediately for a replacement.  The way it has been going down so far it seems like this could have been a used rifle or at least one that has been disassembled by someone at some point after it was "brand new", hence the hesitation to return it to the point of original NEW purchase.

I mean no disrespect to OP, but it just makes no sense whatsoever in any respect.

Cheers,

Dave

Gun dealers will not return the rifle for you. Once you pay and fill out the form, it's off their hands. Any issues is the manufacture problem.
I had a bad slide on a M&P Shield. Notice it 4 hours later after I got home and cleaned it. Dealer said you have to deal with S&W, it's there problem, not ours. Their hands are tied.

FWIW, In over 40 years I have never ever bought a firearm from a Dealer that would not take it back it THEY sold me a defective/damaged firearm.  IF they ever did, it would be their last sale to me.

There is a big difference between a problem/defect that shows up later after using it vs one that is obviously an issue out of the box, if that is indeed the issue here.

Dave

bdub,
I bought it at Florida Gun Exchange in Ormond Beach Florida. A fairly good outfit. I have not even thought of bringing it back there because in my 30 years of gun buying, once you walk out the door it's between you and the manufacturer. It is a manufacturer defect and not having anything to do with the store. I guess I could try but I'm not hopeful. They "may" have a phone number that they can get to DD quicker than I can but right now getting through is not the problem. At least not yet.

KACSR15,
Suspect? I don't understand. I bought the gun brand new at a very reputable gun store. I have done nothing to it and have never ever complained about something like this before. I can't how I could be scamming something here. I can't see how I can be benefiting myself by faking something. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I'm honestly just a guy that bought a rifle and noticed that the gas block was not straight. That's it.
Now could it be possible that an employee at the gun store switched out his crappy upper with one from a new gun in the stock room? I guess, but that seems like a little bit of paranoia to me. Seems more likely that the gas block just got put on off center or the barrel pin groove is off center thus causing any gas block to be off center; in which case it would need a new barrel.

Maxbob
Exactly. That has always been my experience as well. I have never had a dealer take back a "bad" firearm.

But hey, stranger things have happened and if I don't hear from DD by tomorrow I may do just that. They have always seemed like a very good bunch of guys down there at FGE so they may do something for me.

Finally got pics. [removed]

That's why I love Pws. I bought a gun off gunbroker. It was never mentioned in the ad, but it had a blemish on the upper. Like guns banged around on it in their gun safe for a while.

So I emailed Pws and showed them a pic. They said no way that made it through out QC. They didn't have too, but they shipped me a brand new upper and I sent that one back. Very stand up company !

Well I'm not as lucky Got a hold of them today. Turns out I directly emailed someone who was on vacation this week so that's why no one got back to me. I guess they should have that persons emails forwarded to someone else in customer service when they are not there ... but that's another story.
Anyways there is no soap on a new upper. They don't have any to spare. All are going for production of new guns apparently. The guy on the phone was awesome and nice and understanding. There was no work order in the box when I got it so I asked him what they did. He looked it up and told me ... pretty much nothing. They measured it and found it to be "within spec", put it back in the box and sent it back to me. They didn't even remove the gas block and re-seat that same gas block. They did not even test fire it. So pretty much all they did was take it out of the box, measure it I guess, saw that it was not straight but straight enough to be within company tolerances, and send it back.

That annoys me because I was an auto mechanic for a while and when a customer would drop off a car and say something was wrong like the A/C is not cold for example, I would measure the A/C and see if it was within spec. If it was I wold call the customer and see what he was saying was wrong because as far as I could see it was not broken. Either I was crazy or he was. Usually he was because he wanted it to blow ice chunks in 100* heat the second he turned it on. I had to explain what "normal operating temperatures" were and that his A/C unit was within them. But you don't just toss the keys back up on the board and claim that it's fixed.
If he would have called me and said hey it's +/- 5 degrees off center and that's fine as far as we're concerned, I would have said well to me that's not 5 degrees close to straight it's 5 degrees close to crooked. At that point he would have either convinced me that it's fine the way it is or I would have convinced him that TO ME its not, and we would have figured something out.

But at any rate they guy on the phone said hey, if your not happy then we're not happy so send it back in and I promise this time I will force the guy to rebuild the upper do what ever is necessary so that it is the way you want it. I explained that I did not want to be a persnickety pain but if the were a $600 rifle I'd expect this or that to be close to good but not perfect, but this is a $1,600 DD and the reason I bought it is because I was hoping to get perfect; not good enough. If I wanted good enough I could have spent $600 and gotten something good. He agreed and said it will be awesome and I'd be happy. Can't ask for more than that so I sent it back in for round #2.

I'll revive this thread in 2 to 3 weeks when I get it back. Wish me luck fellas.

Maybe the 2nd time they can get it right ! You are more patient than me. It does not matter what I have worked on or buy, if someone can't fix it right the 1st time I take it there, I consider them a worthless company. And I don't go back.

There is a modo in the Union Pipefitters, Do it right the 1st time ! I live by that, and I expect others as well.

Hope it works for you this go round

Props to you for being so nice about it. I would not be pleased at their initial attempt at "fixing" it

OP I didn't read through the whole thread, but if there a reason why you didn't just straighten it out yourself?

The gas block is pinned to the barrel. These are difficult to straighten without proper tools.

Good for the OP for being very patient and to let DD take care of his problem, and to make them aware that sometimes a less than ideal build slips through their QC. This sort of feedback should help DD to keep making excellent rifles.

If you spend the money for what is suppose to be one of the top names in the AR business and it is not right, you should not have to fix it yourself, it should have never left the factory with a problem, perceived or real.

Well I agree with the others here that said that for this kind of money I should not have to fix it. It should be right. But to answer your question here is why I can't fix it.
As I understand it there is only 3 ways that it could be crooked:

1. The gas block pin holes were drilled off center.
If this is the reason then there is nothing anyone can do except to put on a new gas block.

2. The gas block pin groove cut into the bottom of the barrel was cut off center.
If this is the reason then any gas block is going to be off center. The barrel needs to be replaced.

3. The groove/rail that the barrel fits into in the upper is off center.
If this is the cause then the upper itself is bad and any barrel assembly you put in it will be off center.

None of these three things can be fixed by me. They all necessitate new parts and the tools to install them. If the gas block was a screw on type then maybe I could have just loosened it, turned it and tightened it. But it wasn't.

1 and 2 are the same problem, they are drilled at the same time. Driving out the pin, repositioning the gas block, tightening the screw under the block (yes even most pinned blocks are still drilled and tapped underneath), then driving the pins back in fixes this.

 

3 is highly unlikely. More likely is the barrel extension pin is canted in the upper because the pin is slightly smaller diameter than the groove it fits in. Repositioning and then torqueing barrel nut fixes this.


I've used both methods successfully with gas blocks and FSBs on AR15s and AKs with slightly askew gas blocks. Of course having the proper bench blocks and tools makes a difference.

Got an email yesterday from a different customer service person. They said they were extremely sorry that I was not happy and that they want to do everything possible to make me happy. So basically the typical canned customer service response that I guess is taught in customer service 101 Can't blame them for that I guess.
Then they said that while they have my rifle they are going to put a brand new upper and butt pad on it. I'll update this topic when I get it back with some new pics too.

Got my rifle back today. Don't have time to look at it today but THEY NEVER EMAILED ME A TRACKING NUMBER! By sheer luck (someone upstairs was looking out for me) my wife happened to be home. I had no indication that it was coming today and since a signature is required that is kinda lame. Had no one been home I would have come home to a sticker on the door and not happy. I think a "heads up" email letting me know it was coming would have been in order. Oh well at least it's here.

But I will open it up later and give a full report tomorrow when I have a better chance to look at it fully.

Did the same thing to me a couple years ago. Had to drive clear across town to get it. Cost me $20 plus my time.

From my experience that not typical of Daniel Defense customer service.

sorry. I accidentally double posted.

OK, here is my (hopefully) final report. I say hopefully because I have not taken it to the range yet. Maybe next week.

Short version for those that don't want to read all the way through:
Rifle is awesome. Pictures are superfluous because it is just a stock DD so just imagine a perfect DD V11 that looks exactly the way it should and you know what it now looks like So as far as the repair it looks great. Customer service = 50/50 but overall I am happy and would probably buy DD again.
And they did give me 4 of their new DD 32 round magazines in the box when I got it. I guess that is their way of saying sorry and it is a heck of a lot better than a card

Long version:
First the technical. They promised to build me a brand new upper from scratch and take special care to ensure it's quality. Did they? Looks like they did. I know for a fact that this is not the same upper group that was on their to begin with. Is it brand new and built for me? I'll never know for sure. But it sure looks new and it sure looks perfect. The important thing is that it is right and it is not the same one I sent them. So in the end I got what I feel was what I paid for; a brand new DD that is right.

Now for the non-technical (service). I'm happy overall. I'm happy that they took care of me. I'm happy that they did not blow me off and tell me I'm nuts because it was just a little off. To me that is just like saying that it is just a little wrong and for this money it should not be a little wrong but a lot right. And it seems like they concur. I'm happy that they tried hard to make me happy and did not stop until I was.

Now what I'm not so happy about:
1. That is was wrong in the first place. Looks like quality control is slipping a bit probably due to the ridiculous increase in sales. So can I blame them? You decide.
2. That they did not fix it the first time I sent it back. Not only did they not fix it the first time but they did nothing the first time. And on top of that they did not even call me to tell me that they were going to do nothing and send it back to me. They just decided I was crazy and sent it back with no explanation. Not even a letter in the box saying "you're crazy, this rifle is fine". I sent it to them to be fixed and they sent it right back doing zero to it with no explanation. Not cool.
3. That they did not just swap out the upper in the first place. Guess I can't blame them for this one because I guess they had to evaluate it first. But since #2 above they did not then it seems kind of a waste of time.
4. That the foam in the box is destroyed from going back and forth in the mail twice. Kind of makes the nice little plastic gun case you get with it useless now as the foam is really shot and you really can't just go to the store and buy foam that fits. Just a minor gripe but I am listing everything
5. That they said twice in an email that they were going to notify me when it was coming back and they did not. That is a real big bugaboo for me because if I weren't home I'd be pissed. Needless to say that could create a bad customer experience. This really is the big one. Not cool

But, as I said in the beginning, Overall I am happy. They took care of me, I got the rifle I want and 4 mags to boot. Next to the range to see how it shoots. If it shoots as good as it looks I am going to forget everything ever happened and just be happy with my new rifle.

Just now read your thread. Glad to see you stood your ground and they eventually stood behind their product. For that kind of money it best be near perfect as anything can be. I have yet to buy any firearm that includes caveats such as "beware, we drill our holes crooked", "look, it was built on Monday; what do you expect?" All that. Regardless of price, never settle for mediocrity. Good job plus 4 magazines.

OK, final post. Range report.
Popped on an Aimpoint PRO red dot and went to the range, mostly to test for accuracy and reliability. After a few rounds to sight in the optic I did a few hundred rounds in fairly quick succession. Zero failures. Shoots great. Then I tried some real accuracy but I was hampered by only a 25yd range. Be that as it may I was getting very nice small groups from a sandbag. I know 25yds is not a lot to really test accuracy, but with a only a 1x red dot more than that is really not a test anyways as with no magnification you really can't blame the gun.

So bottom line ... this thing is accurate and reliable as a stapler. I was just punching holes one after the other. Smooth and clean. And the rail does not get that hot either. Barrel was smoking but the rail was only warm. Very warm but warm enough to hold. I love my rifle
Thank you to all who helped n the thread. Very much appreciated.

Dam......(4) of the new 32rd mags for free?!

Id say that is customer service making things right for the initial mishaps


I had to send my DDI 12 guage shotgun back to them twice due to (2) major issues with only 50 total rounds through the gun (20 rounds before the bolt seized up and broke something in the receiver, sent it back, got it back, 30 rounds until a locking lug sheered off the bolt completely, sent it back again)............not too mention, they left the old shipping label on the box they sent me to send it back, so on one side was a shipping label saying it was going to TN, on the other there was a shipping label saying it was going to Orlando..........the gun bounced back and forth between the two states with UPS for 2 weeks...............DDI was supposed to have superb customer service..........what did they give me for having to send a brand new gun back twice within 50 rounds for various parts completely breaking, and it getting lost for 2 weeks because of their error not removing the old shipping label? Absolutely nothing

Wow. Just seems like people don't care about their jobs anymore. People in a lot of places just seem to put less effort into getting things right at first than trying to fix things afterward and not even apologize.
"Just the times we live in I guess. It ain't the one thing. It's a tide. A dismal tide."

Come ot think of it I have not heard from them yet still. Still no email or phone call telling me my rifle is coming or a follow up call or even email to make sure I'm happy. Well maybe this week.