I don't think Will necessarily needed the Red spring as much as he just started with it.  I really need to give your new design a try sometime.



 

 
I did need it. I had a few instances of hammer follow with the stock carbine spring, which only stayed in the rifle for a few mags. I had the SpringCo Red ready to install, as I figured it'd need it due to my experience with the Gen2.

I didn't mention it in my video as this was a pre-production trigger pack. I plan to cover it more in-depth once I have a full production sample in hand.

ETA: This video was just a release teaser, since I had a short loan period with the pre-production unit (which, I'm still very thankful to have been able to play with). Once I get the full production sample, I plan to play with various spring/carrier combinations to see how it affects the function of the trigger in my DDM4v11.  







 

Thanks for the background info.

Cant wait for this trigger to come so I can put it in the Betheren HK Trigger Pack.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/01/foghorn/brethren-armament-fixes-the-mp5-trigger-pack-now-takes-ar-15-trigger-safety-and-grip/

OMG! want!

Damn. I guess now I have to buy an Hk variant

Franklin Armory, why has the price gone up? I get you can charge whatever you want, but the set up seems quite simpler than the previous one. Just wondering how the price increase was factored in.

Can't wait to see these in the wild.

Im thinking of picking up a MP5K folding stock once both items are on the market.

Just need to figure out a way to convert it to work with a HK21/23

I was thinking of a pistol brace to go with it. Or maybe a collapsing pistol brace once that becomes a thing for the MP5.

That would be a fun little pistol to CCW  

I just thought of another benefit of the Gen3 BFS. This new trigger system should work fine in Colt lowers with the sear block, or the sear block web in the upper shelf that we see with 6920 lowers, etc.


No machining will be required like we saw with the Gen2 BFS (and like what will be required for the FosTech ECHO).





ETA: This is the web I speak of, which is in my LE6920.





This web blocks the rear porition of the Gen2 BFS and the ECHO, however with the Gen3 BFS' simplistic design, it should drop right in and work fine.


I will test this when I get my full production unit.



 

 

This would be great news for all the newer Colts out there if no milling was required. Pics would be appreciated as well as a test.

Are you going to have an approval letter for those of us who have the gen II triggers? I would think the gen III letter would not cover the gen II due to the design change in the submission.

I just noticed, but the picture of the gen III trigger has a selector that only works in binary - clearly a pre-production testing unit.

 
Excellent news, thanks for the update guys.

I don't get it. The trigger just came out and it's already gen 3? Talk about piss for QA.

Also can someone explain to me why this is worth the 429.99 price point? I mean...it's literally the same thing as any other trigger group with a few small mods. This cost what, $50 max to make?

This!

I can't speak for other's opinions, but a ground up design with quality components, rather than home-modified M16 components that may wear out much quicker is worth it to me.

It's not cheap to design something like that to be reliable from the ground up, nor is it a sure gamble in the gun world (Remember how long it was debated over whether this would get ATF approval? All of their time and money for the design could have been wasted.), nor is it cheap to manufacture parts like that with a semblance of quality. Their design isn't just a chopped up surplus parts kit, it appears to be a significantly different design, and as such, would require parts to be manufactured specifically for Franklin's trigger. It clearly isn't comprised of standard, off the shelf components if you look at the picture.

Manufacturing and designing a quality product isn't cheap, and to be frank, "it's just, what, $(amount of money) to make that/worth of metal" shows that you don't understand that fact.

i was kinda shocked that the gen 2 was poof gone from the website.

I get it that the gen 3 is better, and the gen 2 will be discontinued for a simpler and more versatile design, but why not continue the gen 2 until the gen 3 is at least shipping?

While I get and understand this, there are a plethora of manufacturers who manufacture interesting triggers that don't use the mil-spec "mold" (so to speak).  Elftmann Triggers for example has  not one thing that even partially fits the mil-spec design, but it's only $269.  It has more parts than this and more features, it's actually much more modded of a trigger than a mil-spec design.  And is pretty much the highest price you're going to get for high quality triggers.  The BFS and Echo pricetags is extremely high, especially with the gen3 where from the looks of it, it's just a modded trigger, disconnector, and safety.  Just from looking at them, I couldn't even put it in the same quality category as other high quality "drop in" or otherwise triggers, but for some reason it's much more expensive.  This is an unacceptable in my humble opinion.

The moment someone comes up with a $250-$300 one (which is what they should be sold at) will be the end for these triggers stealing peoples money.

This is however, my E-pinion.

THIS. This is where the Echo shines. The sear "trip". Without it there is no "control".

It's not stealing if we are freely choosing to participate.

 

Do I think it's expensive and they're making a lot of profit? Yes. People like to make money and I don't have to spend my money. I'll probably end up buying it eventually though.


As I've said since the original BFS came out, the real cost is the ammo you will expend.

 
If you've been following along, that sear only seems to prevent hammer follow if you use it with the included bolt carrier that the ECHO is supposedly going to ship with now.




So, that "control" is now limited (which from the original videos and launch info, there was no mention of a special carrier needed). In the MAC video Tim notes that if you use the ECHO without their special carrier, you can run into hammer follow.






 

 
You should try this same logic at a car dealer. Or better yet, call up LaRue, KAC, BCM, Dainel Defense, etc. and tell them their rifles are way overpriced. I mean, how much does it really cost to build an AR??




Comparing the BFS to a single stage drop-in trigger, or any other "two mode" AR trigger is pointless. They are completely different animals. And, if you look at the market for "three mode" triggers, Franklin's is the least expensive model out there.


If these triggers seem overpriced to you, don't buy them. That's the wonderful thing about this, you don't have to buy it. And, Jaqufrost is 100% correct. The ammo you will burn through with one of these triggers is going to cost you MUCH more than the trigger itself. Heck, I burned through $500+ in just ammo when I tested the original BFS (Gen2). Being that I'm not sponsored, I actually have to buy all of the ammo I use for these trigger tests.

Well I ordered one today, can't wait to try it against the Gen2.  This one is either going in my M&P 15-22 or MPX though, ideally I'd order one for each and a third for my 300... and a fourth for my M4 Sopmod...

I just subbed a few days ago to your excellent channel. You SHOULD be sponsored. Keep up the fantastic work and I am sure you will be sponsored...eventually.

I think the very least that Franklin Arms owes you is replacement for the ammo you shot since they are using your excellent video embedded in their product page on their website. I am sure you gave permission. But, Dayum Franklin! Send the man a crate of ammo, why don't you?  In fact, send him several crates! That is very least you could do.

Look I had a real problem with the Tac Con trigger price at $500. Especially when it turned out it wasn't any faster than a $250 Geissle! Karma is a bitch since that trigger is worth spit now.
The Binary type triggers are a combination of great R&D costs, investments of time and money over YEARS, paying lawyers for patents and negotiations with the ATF and more. All that plus good old "supply and demand" and intrinsic value.

As much as I hated the Tac Con for its price, I would leap at paying the $500 or so dollars for either binary trigger from Fostech or Franklin. I am going to wait a bit to see how everything pans out. But the price point is NOT a negative talking point for me. Not when a full auto AR  goes for $18-$45K!!!

Even if I HAD a full auto I would put a 3 round burst trigger on it anyway.   Now, I hear that they are finding out that a TWO round burst is actually better. Perfect. These triggers simulate almost exactly what many military and police either use or will use in the future. I can actually see one of these triggers installed on LEO rifles. You need TRAINING to operate one. But less training that for a full auto gun. Many LEO departments refuse to HAVE full autos because of the high level of training needed NOT to screw up. The binary triggers do add a "screw up danger factor", but I bet within time you will see test beds with SWAT and others. Mark my words.

If enough binary triggers are sold, it may be possible to see prices dip drastically to the $300-$350 levels. A lot depends on who else can come up with one and/or how many get sold. Remember there are patents protecting these that serve to keep competitive down and prices high. But with volume always comes price breaks. Time will tell. ONLY if Trump can keep the Globalists from faking the election voter tallies and elec. college votes. Worried about that. A lot.

Everything is gone anyways and all our conjecture is moot if Hilary gets installed in the White House. Bye bye binary triggers, AR-15's, all  30 round mags and repeal of 2nd amendment.

 
One day, one day! LOL.




No, Franklin doesn't owe me anything. The fact that they're willing to send me these triggers before anyone else is more than enough, not to mention that them linking to my video helps me as well.





ETA: Oh, and thank you VERY much for the kind words. They are much appreciated.



 

Credit where credit is due. Everyone, if you dont know, MUAD's YT channel is AR15 Hunter. Here is a link to his website. The guy does pro quality videos, articles and professional quality photographs. One of my newest subs on YT.

 Website:  http://ar15hunter.com/

You Tube:https://www.youtube.com/user/ar15hunters

I just watched the ground squirrel, rock chuck, muskrat with  the The Ultimate Varmint Rifle - Franklin Armory F17 in 17WSM AR15 Build.
What a cool rifle. Incredible sharp, through the scope action.
Check it out.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wsj4uAwh8dQ

This promotion is strictly unsolicited. I dont know MUAD. I would LIKE to. Seems like a great guy.  I don't think anyone would mind promoting one of our own AND being pointed to some  great content!  Enjoy.

P.S.    MUAD is out there fighting for our rights..in TIME MAGAZINE even. I think advocacy like this deserves to be recognized.
AR15 Hunter Sets the Record Straight with Time Magazine About Hunting with the AR15 Platform:  http://time.com/4390506/gun-control-ar-15-semiautomatic-rifles/

 
Wow, I don't know what to say, other than THANK YOU!

In addition to this, I imagine they're probably worried about the political climate, and want to recoup their costs as soon as possible. Franklin's still a fairly small company, and who know how much of a financial hit a ban on things like the BFS would have on them at this point?

I ordered one last week.

What's the approximate time it takes to ship?

I'm expecting it will be at least 2 months, given the demand.

Thanks,

G.

Kind of what I figured. Looking at the political climate and how people love to write the ATF to double check legality (see sig brace) I could see them being afraid this will be a short run. They are not a massive company that has the ability to eat losses if something gets pulled.

If they're selling faster than they can make them (which they are), then they aren't going to reduce the price. I'm betting those fancy Elffmans are mostly just sitting.

I don't know the measurements of those parts. Do you? A pic of the parts in a Colt 6920 lower with the web intact will answer the question and a test will prove it out. Maybe even a statement from Franklin Armory on usability of the Gen 3 with unmilled Colt lowers would be reassuring.

 
I plan to drop the Gen3 in my Colt LE6920 to show that it fits.

Ah! I see now. It is a big joint effort. And that would make you Will, then. Don.t mind me. I am new. So much great stuff to go through on your channel and web page. I cant believe you guys have been under my radar. No longer. So glad I finally found you.

I had someone come to the door right after I posted. But I did go back just now and Hyper Link all the URL's. No excuse for any one not to check any or all of the URL's I posted.

Make a video showing it running and you'll make a lot of Colt owners smile!

 
Consider it done.

Haha, thanks brother!!!

Yes, I'm Will.

That's what so wonderfulabout the free market is you give the consumer value and make a profit. Competition is the driving factor.  Unless there is a patent involved then you have a product that infringes on that patent.... Then you better get as much as you can before the lawyers come.

It's looks like a good product and the review was really good. I just don't like the "stickler" mentality of companies who have a new product so they charge an arm and a leg.

Ar15hubter.com is my new subscription.

Maybe I missed it in the various threads, maybe it's a moot point. Will the BFS 3 (or even the Fostech) function in a SBR upper? Besides my rifles I've also got a couple of Colt MK18 uppers from SAW I'd like to try these units in. Has anyone run these in SBRs? Any issues to be aware of?

They work great in SBR's. Most of my youtube videos of the old BFS is from my 10.5" 5.56 upper.

Could you post a link or two to the vids?