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Posted: 10/19/2016 11:29:26 PM EDT
[#1]
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Where is your data? We have Molon's data, let's see what you've got. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Mark's comments to Molon has changed my mind about considering a LaRue Stealth barrel for my next SPR build. Even though LaRue's current price to accuracy ratio for their barrels is very attractive and well documented, Mark's self-aggrandizement and pokes at respected members really disappoints me. 
Molon's presence here has consistently been full of helpful controlled, scientific, and unbiased reviews that you rarely see in the shooting world (using multiple barrels on each review typically - not just a sample of 1), where most people have an agenda to try and sell equipment and/or advertisements in their publications. Um. You're joking right? I'm absolutely lost for words. He's respected by guys who think he's doing scientific work. He's a back yard tester. Period. Which would be fine but he has an attitude and calls people names who disagree with him. Where is your data? We have Molon's data, let's see what you've got. Stop it. Go away. Take it to another thread, like GD. Everybody's been playing nice. Do not start this sheet here. Do not throw gasoline. Frakkin' trolls. |
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Posted: 10/20/2016 6:13:18 PM EDT
[#2]
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Where is your data? We have Molon's data, let's see what you've got. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Mark's comments to Molon has changed my mind about considering a LaRue Stealth barrel for my next SPR build. Even though LaRue's current price to accuracy ratio for their barrels is very attractive and well documented, Mark's self-aggrandizement and pokes at respected members really disappoints me.
Molon's presence here has consistently been full of helpful controlled, scientific, and unbiased reviews that you rarely see in the shooting world (using multiple barrels on each review typically - not just a sample of 1), where most people have an agenda to try and sell equipment and/or advertisements in their publications. Um. You're joking right? I'm absolutely lost for words. He's respected by guys who think he's doing scientific work. He's a back yard tester. Period. Which would be fine but he has an attitude and calls people names who disagree with him. Where is your data? We have Molon's data, let's see what you've got. You miss the point. Entirely. He has data. It wasn't obtained scientifically if you follow the scientific method. I listed a couple out if the million reasons why I'm my other post. Your first clue: he doesn't even use a controlled shooting environment. Your posts indicates you don't understand how true scientific findings are obtained. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying he's a blowhard, but actual, scientific data? No. I wouldn't even bother with these threads but he has such an obnoxious arrogance to him. And it's not because he hears the same thing over and over again and is sick of addressing it. |
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Posted: 10/20/2016 11:48:09 PM EDT
[#3]
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You miss the point. Entirely. He has data. It wasn't obtained scientifically if you follow the scientific method. I listed a couple out if the million reasons why I'm my other post. Your first clue: he doesn't even use a controlled shooting environment. Your posts indicates you don't understand how true scientific findings are obtained. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying he's a blowhard, but actual, scientific data? No. I wouldn't even bother with these threads but he has such an obnoxious arrogance to him. And it's not because he hears the same thing over and over again and is sick of addressing it. I've found his ammunition accuracy data to be very accurate and consistent with my own experiences with the same ammunition. Dismissing his efforts to educate people and willingness to share his data publicly because in your opinion it's not scientific enough, is completely asinine. If you have a better, more scientific source of information please share it. Thanks. |
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Posted: 10/21/2016 12:08:28 AM EDT
[#4]
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Omg stop saying that. He doesn't shoot in a controlled environment. He doesn't change targets after each shot and claims it doesn't matter (bullshit), he doesn't use lasers to measure if the rifle moved between shots, if the target moved, he doesn't do shit but lay a rifle down, shoot, and do some math!! Do you people have any idea how much money alone it would take (not to mention time) to reach a real scientific conclusion for just one barrel and one lot of ammo?!! Not a couple ten round groups, that's for sure. I'm leaving this thread now before I pull my hair out. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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^^^ Here's the deal - 3/4" rifles shoot from 1/4" to 1.50" groups, it's the thing about averaging, there will be hlghs... and lows. That benchrest rifle that shot a 0.009" group back in the late 70s wasn't a 0.009" rifle, but it's documented that it damn sure shot that group on that day with that wind and that shooter and that ammo. ETA - a monkey could read Ronbo's mood as happy go lucky, just wanting to contribute. Even Molon's cute little wind reading dog could read the winds of Ronbo's post. A curb stomp is what he got a la Molon and TOS's MO. And as for 3-shot groups, 40% of the Top 40 on the 1 MOA board got a LaRue factory-fired 3-shot group before going out our door or nothing at all if they were a $225 on-sale barrel. I'd bet the title to my house that Ronbo would have gotten an entirely different reception to his 1/4" group claim had it been shot from a Krieger barrel ... or anything but a LaRue barrel. Mark, You make great stuff....so don't take this personally... Molon is correct on the scientifically valid method he uses to test the precision of a given load through that specific gun on that specific day. He shoots control groups every time with known ammo at the same range, same gear, eliminating as many variables as possible. He is correct with his methodology. It doesn't mean that another barrel or ammo won't perform to the same level...just that he has a clear method (not dissimilar from some parts of DOD on the procurement side who do similar lot acceptance testing of ammo) for proving on paper what does what. I have zero doubt that you could send Molon or someone a similar upper and it would perform in a similar manner under the same conditions. Barrel making isn't magic. Frankly, I'm a bit surprised you guys are still using humans to shoot the rifles. I figured a machining guru such as yourself would have a test fixture made up to take the human element out and thus shrink groups even farther... Omg stop saying that. He doesn't shoot in a controlled environment. He doesn't change targets after each shot and claims it doesn't matter (bullshit), he doesn't use lasers to measure if the rifle moved between shots, if the target moved, he doesn't do shit but lay a rifle down, shoot, and do some math!! Do you people have any idea how much money alone it would take (not to mention time) to reach a real scientific conclusion for just one barrel and one lot of ammo?!! Not a couple ten round groups, that's for sure. I'm leaving this thread now before I pull my hair out. I do. Nothing with barrels or ammo is tested in a truly scientific manner. It's all anecdotes, trial and error, and hunches. That's why we have silly 19-page threads like this. |
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